oh my various gods. How did I get into this?

[mabriss lethe]

So I just started playing in a new game (tonight was the second session.) There was drama, the DM walked out and I was left as the only player that had any experience DMing a game. Guess who got voted in? I really *didn't* want to DM this time around. I was sort of revelling in playing a character for once. I flew it all by the seat of my pants tonight, making up things as I went along, fudging every stat known to man and effectively putting them through the Cabin in the Woods from Evil Dead. Aside from the fact that I *just* got home (it's almost 6am local) Everyone seemed to have a blast. I have no idea what sort of shenanigans I've put into motion. There's now a secret war between two rival factions of necromancers. Rituals have gone awry and "things that should not be" are on the loose.

Things were originally core only, but I think I'm going to slip in and make some suggestions as time and tides go on. I now have the entire 3.5 library at my disposal. I have no idea why I'm even posting I don't think there are any real questions I need to ask at the moment. Just venting, I guess. sleep now.

[JaxGaret]

Good luck!

[Dave Rapp]

Good luck!

I think this basically puts it best.

[TheCountAlucard]

You might try Heroes of Horror. :smalltongue:

It's a pretty good book.

[BobVosh]

actually sounds like a really fun plotline.

[hotel_papa]

Heroes of Horror + Libris Mortis = You're all set. I mean, come on! Dread Necromancers with Tomb Tainted Soul surrounded by Ettin Zombies that explode with negative energy when killed? Harming their enemies, healing themselves and doing it all on your turn!? w00t!

Also, check out Monster Manual V's Bonelord (I think it's called... books are in the trunk of my car) and his collection of unique skeletal creatures, Dungeonscape's various necromantically-themed walls, floors and such... DMG 2 and Cityscape both have pre-statted bosses for you. (I <3 The Symbol... don't judge me)

As for the DM drama and desire to play instead of DM, I feel your pain, my friend... oh, how I feel it. I feel your pain so much it has probably filed a restraining order.

P.S. Strongly worded suggestion - If there are precision-damage based builds in the party, either allow penetrating strike, be forthcoming with the truedeath crystals, or both. Trust me. Rogues who can't sneak attack sate their boredom by stealing and causing a ruckuss.

P.P.S. Dwarf ITP... sweet...

[Mr.Bookworm]

I think this basically puts it best.

Yep.

Make sure you have Heroes of Horror and Libris Mortis close at hand, pray, and you'll be set.

Though I must ask, what was the drama that made the DM leave?

[Prometheus]

Yeah, I would be concerned that the DM was really only leaving temporarily and that he (or she) will come back and hate you for taking the spot.

[7th lvl scrub]

Heroes of Horror + Libris Mortis = You're all set. I mean, come on! Dread Necromancers with Tomb Tainted Soul surrounded by Ettin Zombies that explode with negative energy when killed? Harming their enemies, healing themselves and doing it all on your turn!? w00t!


This is the most brilliant idea I have ever heard anybody say about anything...

That and, Tomb of Horrors.

[WickerNipple]

The real tragedy here is you haven't shared what drama ran the original DM off. How dare you not pay your dramatoll to the those of us who lurk under the interbridge.

[TheCountAlucard]

The real tragedy here is you haven't shared what drama ran the original DM off. How dare you not pay your dramatoll to the those of us who lurk under the interbridge.

Are you calling us trolls, then? :smallconfused:

[arguskos]

Are you calling us trolls, then? :smallconfused:
In the best way possible, I'm sure.

[WickerNipple]

Certainly including myself, if that makes you feel better. :smallbiggrin:

[Curmudgeon]

Heroes of Horror + Libris Mortis = You're all set. Excellent suggestion. Throw in some Fiend Folio and Lords of Madness if you need to crank up the "ick" factor. Grafts, anyone?

[Egiam]

Get a pre-made adventure. Get the players to run the occasional pre-made one. Eventually someone will try making their own ones.

[hotel_papa]

Grafts, anyone?

Yes, please. I'll take two. And those are also excellent suggestions. Those two books are classic when it comes to horrible, horrible nightmare-esque beings from another realm. Consider looking into Exemplars of Evil, or even Elder Evils for some more plot. Two cults fighting a secret war ... for the favor of Atropos!

An undead-themed campaign essentially writes itself. Especially with the healthy premise you have going. The only caveat is that you're DMing as opposed to playing. I cannot stress this enough: RESIST the urge to DMPC. It can only lead to ruin.

[Flickerdart]

Maybe toss in a Worm That Walks as a final challenge. It fits the "things that should not be" motif quite nicely.

[BobVosh]

Yes, please. I'll take two. And those are also excellent suggestions. Those two books are classic when it comes to horrible, horrible nightmare-esque beings from another realm. Consider looking into Exemplars of Evil, or even Elder Evils for some more plot. Two cults fighting a secret war ... for the favor of Atropos!

An undead-themed campaign essentially writes itself. Especially with the healthy premise you have going. The only caveat is that you're DMing as opposed to playing. I cannot stress this enough: RESIST the urge to DMPC. It can only lead to ruin.

So...a Heroes of Ruin are DMPCs? :smallbiggrin:

[hotel_papa]

I'm going to go with...yes. Champions of Ruin, however, are just bad PCs.

[ChaosDefender24]

Heroes of Horror + Libris Mortis = You're all set. I mean, come on! Dread Necromancers with Tomb Tainted Soul surrounded by Ettin Zombies that explode with negative energy when killed? Harming their enemies, healing themselves and doing it all on your turn!? w00t!Zombie cat bombs



fixed it for you

[hotel_papa]

Yes, yes you did. Thread's over, you win.

[mabriss lethe]

I can't really get into the details of the drama, since it's not mine to share. Short version is that one of the players was irritating the gm while she was stuck at work. She got there, blew up over it. Player's wife loses temper and kicks her out of the appt. If they resolve their differences and she wants to GM, I'm more than happy to turn it back over and get back to playing my rather ineffectual box of band-aids.

As for the suggestions, I've already been mining LM and HoH for the upcoming session. (they're two of my favorite books in the first place.)

I plan on mixing up the opponents in combat so that the rogue can still get in on the action with some live targets while I mine the books for all the toys he can use to boost his damage against undead.

Resisting the DMPC isn't terribly hard. They have one right now (my cleric is still nominally attached to the party. Even though I have him playing a strict support role at the moment.) If I wind up keeping the DM chair, I'll slowly phase him out of the picture as I look for an extra player to fill the spot. If I wind up being able to go back to playing the game, my cleric will still have been involved without breeaking up the story continuity too much.

[Flickerdart]

Just get one of the players to take Leadership and give them your Cleric for a cohort. Problem solved.

[TheCountAlucard]

...while I mine the books for all the toys he can use to boost his damage against undead.

If I recall correctly, the Ghost Strike enchancement from Magic Item Compendium allows one to make critical hits against undead. You might offer him that.

[mabriss lethe]

Just get one of the players to take Leadership and give them your Cleric for a cohort. Problem solved.

They're all early 5th level right now, so no Leadership for a few more sessions at the very least. By then I hope that things have been resolved one way or the other, so that I can either completely retire the cleric in favor of another player or I can return to playing him as a PC. It hasn't been a huge issue, I just kept him off to the sidelines as a buff/heal-bot this time around and used him as a rotating flanking buddy for the party.


If I recall correctly, the Ghost Strike enchancement from Magic Item Compendium allows one to make critical hits against undead. You might offer him that.

Thanks. MIC is already one of the books that's at the top of my 'to-do' list. that might bump it to the top of the pile.

[Inyssius Tor]

Ooh, you've got a nicely integrated DMPC already. I'd be unsuccessfully resisting the urge to take the Brainwashed And Crazy route, myself; after a huge cinematic fight, there's nothing more fun than having your healbot--instead of repairing your lungs and spine--explode in a cloud of hell-locusts and sprout necrotic razor tentacles from his face and come at you screaming hymns in praise of the Blood God.

But, um, yeah. If you can get him to escape afterward, that serves two handy purposes! You get a handy quest you can invoke anytime (hey, it's a psychotic loose end with a personal connection to the party!), and if you get a new DM... after that adventure, and after the party tracks your character down and rips the hullathoin (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50148.jpg) larva out of his neck, you can even go back to playing that character. Handy!

[mabriss lethe]

Ooh, you've got a nicely integrated DMPC already. I'd be unsuccessfully resisting the urge to take the Brainwashed And Crazy route, myself; after a huge cinematic fight, there's nothing more fun than having your healbot--instead of repairing your lungs and spine--explode in a cloud of hell-locusts and sprout necrotic razor tentacles from his face and come at you screaming hymns in praise of the Blood God

Funny you should mention that. He's already a CN cleric of Set who heals people by stabbing them in the face with a healin' shiv, so he's no far from that point in the first place.

I have to admit, my favorite stroke of genius was implimenting my "critical fumble drinking game" house rule. Every time you roll a natural 1, you have to take a shot. It makes things interesting.

Now I have to figure out if I want to integrate some real nastiness. (I think I'm going to throw them into the teeth of a Malazan style empire at some point, complete with cracked out Imperial marines, scary neanderthal undead and heavy duty alchemical munitions.) None of my players have read the Malazan Books of the Fallen, so it'll be a real t(h)reat for them.

[WickerNipple]

I have to admit, my favorite stroke of genius was implimenting my "critical fumble drinking game" house rule. Every time you roll a natural 1, you have to take a shot. It makes things interesting.


That's a good one. I just sadly have a contingent of non-drinkers. The louts.

[only1doug]

They're all early 5th level right now, so no Leadership for a few more sessions at the very least. By then I hope that things have been resolved one way or the other, so that I can either completely retire the cleric in favor of another player or I can return to playing him as a PC. It hasn't been a huge issue, I just kept him off to the sidelines as a buff/heal-bot this time around and used him as a rotating flanking buddy for the party.



Thanks. MIC is already one of the books that's at the top of my 'to-do' list. that might bump it to the top of the pile.

ghost strike does give sneak attack vs undead, pre-req is ghost touch, minimum cost is +3 weapon (=+1 base, +1 ghost touch, +1 ghost strike)

Greater truedeath crystal also gives sneak attacks and crits, cost=10 000 gp

either one is kinda pricy for a L5 character.

[mabriss lethe]

ghost strike does give sneak attack vs undead, pre-req is ghost touch, minimum cost is +3 weapon (=+1 base, +1 ghost touch, +1 ghost strike)

Greater truedeath crystal also gives sneak attacks and crits, cost=10 000 gp

either one is kinda pricy for a L5 character.

Yeah, I noticed that m'self. I think I'm going to homebrew a lesser version as a +1 enhancemnt with no synergy. It'll treat undead as having some degree of fortification vs. criticals/sneak instead of being completely immune. That sound like a good compromise to anyone?

[Inyssius Tor]

I don't see how it matters. It's really not a balance issue at all, it's just How Things Are Done. I would let him do it with an Arcana (or Religion) check, or with a spell like true sight or arcane sight or detect magic--to figure out where the negative energy sustaining them is flowing most strongly, so it can be disrupted.

[SadisticFishing]

Give him that thingy thing from that book. You know, the one with the power.

I think I mean Dungeonscape, giving up Trap Sense for the ability to sneak attack things that shouldn't be able to be snuck... attacked...?, albeit at half damage.

[mabriss lethe]

Give him that thingy thing from that book. You know, the one with the power.

I think I mean Dungeonscape, giving up Trap Sense for the ability to sneak attack things that shouldn't be able to be snuck... attacked...?, albeit at half damage.

Oooh. Haven't gotten a chance to flip through dungeonscape yet, though I really need to. I'll talk it out with the player if I'm still running the game next week.

[Inyssius Tor]

Seriously, aside from fluff considerations, what does it matter? Are rogues really too overpowered with the ability to sneak attack undead in an undead-focused campaign?