"It goes agains everything I've been taught"

[kpenguin]

Who else is confused by this? I'm sure there's some professional or legal reason why Celia shouldn't negotiate for the reinstatement of Haley's guild membership, but I'm no lawyer so I wouldn't know.

[Grail]

Without prior consultation.
Negotiating with a criminal organisation.
Just so that it sets up the punchline....?

[Corwin Weber]

I'm still thinking she's referring to negotiating with an organized crime group for the reinstatement of one of their members for more criminal activity.

Lawyers that don't already work for such organizations tend to have strong opinions about such things.

[David Argall]

One possibility is that it refers to bargaining from a position of weakness. On the face of it, Haley will be facing working for the guild for free for about the next 875 years.

[Kaytara]

It's also possible that she was going to zap them, which goes against everything she's been taught, but thought of a different solution at the last moment.

[Ron Miel]

Because she has not been appointed as Haley's legal representative. She is not acting under a client's instructions and has no authority to negotiate on her behalf.

[Lavidor]

Because she isn't getting paid?:smallamused:

[Tomada]

Because she isn't getting paid?:smallamused:

A Lawyer not getting paid? Now THAT goes against everything I know. Every lawyer wants to get paid. twice. a 60% fee, to what amount 120% of whatever the client is suing for.

[High King Iggy]

Because she has not been appointed as Haley's legal representative. She is not acting under a client's instructions and has no authority to negotiate on her behalf.

Quoted for truth ... She should be disbarred.

[Euron]

Big deal, so what? Haley isn't Lawful, otherwise she would still be in the Guild to begin with.

Bargaining chip used, opponents stalled for the present while the Cavalry (Belkar) comes swooping it.

[Kreistor]

Guys, it's very simple.

Celia is forcing a legal negotiation by using a threat of violence. This is extortion and it is unethical. Lawyers are taught ethics (though some would say they don't practice them very well), so Celia is going against her ethical teachings.

I'm thinking the imminent threat of electrical death to the opposing legal negotiator will be adequate to ensure Haley continues on her quest to save the world.

[Mollusk]

One possibility is that it refers to bargaining from a position of weakness. On the face of it, Haley will be facing working for the guild for free for about the next 875 years.

I know! :smallfrown: It makes no sense. She's practically selling Haley out to the Greysky Thieves Guild in exchange for her own freedom.

Even if Celia thinks that operating as the legal councel for OotS during the Azure City trial somehow means she can be legal councel for Haley in Greysky, I can't imagine how Haley's reinstatement in the guild helps Celia.

On top of that, aren't Haley and the Belkster pretty much dicing everyone?

Wow... i just got inspired there:

It's a longshot, but what if Celia's 'negotiating' that Haley be the new Greysky head honcho, in exchange for them not decimating their guild?

Nah... that can't be it. It still makes no sense! :smallmad:

[theinsulabot]

really i think its just setting up the punch line. oh ook, she is gonna kill em, she is gonna kill em.....nope! negotiations time.

but if i had to pick a reason, i am thinking its the intimidate check she just made. she doesnt like treatening people, even villians, but she is doing it now. think about it. she could of said the exact same thing still confined, while the warrior just kept hold of her. but she didnt. she blasted the warrior and is now quite visibly preparing lightning bolts as she speaks. there is a very real underlying point of "if you and i cant come to an agreement on this, i am going to be flying out of here over your burnt corpses"

[Corwin Weber]

Quoted for truth ... She should be disbarred.

I'm not convinced this is the case. She has been Haley's counsel previously, and the relationship still arguably exists. She clearly isn't on retainer.... but she has represented Haley before.

[Optimystik]

Because she has not been appointed as Haley's legal representative. She is not acting under a client's instructions and has no authority to negotiate on her behalf.

She DOES, however, lawfully represent the Order of the Stick; of which Haley is the acting leader. Besides which, Haley summoned her (however inadvertently) which may count as appointment depending on how Celia chooses to interpret the rules of her little trinket.

[Kreistor]

Oh, I forgot something else. Celia is negotiating a contract that includes one (or more) signatories commiting illegal acts -- namely stealing. no contract for the purpose of commiting a legal act is legal, so the contract is null and void, the moment it is written. That's another reason it may be against her teachings.

[Liwen]

Big deal, so what? Haley isn't Lawful, otherwise she would still be in the Guild to begin with.

Bargaining chip used, opponents stalled for the present while the Cavalry (Belkar) comes swooping it.

You are right about Haley not being lawful, however, I would not consider a lawful character incapable of leaving a Thieves guild in order to save a familly member. Some lawful characters are guided by principles and beliefs, not actual laws, though they tend respect most of them.

This little alignement sub-threat aside, I also believe forcing a negociation using lethal amount of electric energy is the "Goes against everything I've been though" She clearly has a strong pacifist ideology. But I could also throw "Negociation with criminals" in the loot.

[GSFB]

You all have it wrong.

Celia is bluffing. She has no intention of engaging in any real legal negotiations. She is distracting the thieves because that will gave Haley and Belkar time to dispatch Bozzok and Crystal. Then, they can come rescue Celia.

It goes against everything she has been taught because she is making a mockery of legitimate legal proceedings in order to save her skin.

[Mollusk]

She has no intention of engaging in any real legal negotiations. She is distracting the thieves because that will gave Haley and Belkar time to dispatch Bozzok and Crystal. Then, they can come rescue Celia.
A bit anticlimactic though, wouldn't you agree? :smallannoyed:

[Yoyoyo]

Oh, I forgot something else. Celia is negotiating a contract that includes one (or more) signatories commiting illegal acts -- namely stealing. no contract for the purpose of commiting a legal act is legal, so the contract is null and void, the moment it is written. That's another reason it may be against her teachings.

True. In fact, this whole negotiation is a bit silly if we deconstruct it. I mean, the penalty for breaching a Guild contract is, um, death, so its not like Haley and the Guild plan to sue each other if things don't work out. And here I thought you couldn't get punitive damages for breach of contract. :smallamused:

But that doesn't mean "contracts" can't be made among criminals. Just don't expect them to follow them too often.

[hamishspence]

I kinda liked the approach of the Church of Freya in OOTS Dragon magazine- after Belkar has refused to pay up having been healed several times:

Belkar: "What are you going to do- repossess my health?"
Agent: "Actually, yes. Plus interest of course."
Belkar: "Arrrrgh!!"
Agent: "Hold still! I need to assess a late fee!"

[Cpt. Soup]

I think it would be rather boring if Belkar and Haley just killed them all ad then escaped. I don't think Celia is just distracting them so the two have time to stroll in and butcher the thieves, that doesn't strike me as the actions of a pacifist, rather someone who doesn't want to dirty their hands. I think that Celia honestly is trying to peacefully resolve the situation, not betray Haley to save her own skin. Those here saying that Celia has no right to represent or should be disbarred for interacting with the thieves guild are forgeting that she's a lawyer not not a police officer. Laywers don't uphold or perhaps even care about the law, they only care when it effects the client, otherwise its not really their business. I'm not saying that they're all a bunch of blood-sucking parasites, just that you rarely see them chasing down street muggers very often.

As for what Celia is proposing to Hank, I'm thinking she's simply trying to reinstate Haley's membership not make her guild leader or anything ludicrous, I don't have any ideas though about how shes going to set it up so the three can leave with Roy's body.

[Kreistor]

Create a new type of guild member, unique to Haley. The Roaming Sales Rep, or whatever. she's a member, has to pay a small stipend every year to keep up her membership, but otherwise she doesn't hurt them, and they don't hurt her. Maybe she has to come back once a year to perform a special service to the guild. Whatever works.

Because if the guild doesn't agree, there's going to be crispy fried halfling in the buffet, along with the dozen or so other dishes already served up.

Flying electrical death -- the new negotiating tactic for power legal eagles.

[Strengfellow]

Perhaps she just hates Contract Law having specialised in Tort or indeed Criminal Law (which seems likely, check the trial).

She could have even thought of specailising in breaking these type of contracts and now finds herself in the onorous possition of having to play Fiends advocate and perpetuating what is, in effect an indentured servitude contract.