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Enochi
2008-12-23, 12:09 AM
Hello again. I am thinking about making a new character again and was thinking about making a pixie rogue/swashbuckler type character. I was planning on a Rogue 8/Swash 8 and getting some feats to enhance invisablity like spectral skirmisher. The swash isnt set in stone nor the feats so I would just like some ideas for brain storming the character.

RTGoodman
2008-12-23, 12:44 AM
Well, first, you're probably not going to need 8 levels of Swashbuckler - just get three levels of it (enough for Weapon Finesse for free, Grace, and Int to Damage) and then take Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel. (It lets levels in the two classes stack for Sneak Attack, Grace, and dodge bonus to AC.) After that, just take as many Rogue levels as possible (to maximize Sneak Attack) and go to town.

Also, see your DM about whether or not you can use LA Buyoff Rules, which should get you one extra level in there somewhere. If so, your final build would be something like Pixie LA 3/Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 14, which'll nab you +9d6 Sneak Attack. For other feats, that depends. Craven could up your damage, as could TWF, which you'll probably be pretty good with considering the penalties are lessened by your boost to BAB from Swashbuckler and your +8 racial Dex bonus.

Kristoss
2008-12-23, 01:22 AM
Checkout the pixie handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1017351) for some good options.
I would suggest trying to get the shadow blade feat from ToB p32 to get dex to damage. It's requirements mean either a heavy feat investment or a level in swordsage.
Also if you want to avoid multiclass penalties while rapidly advancing SA, look at the invisible blade prestige class (CW p45). Invisible blade provides SA every 2 levels, a good backup if invisibility fails and Int to AC.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-12-23, 01:32 AM
Well, first, you're probably not going to need 8 levels of Swashbuckler - just get three levels of it (enough for Weapon Finesse for free, Grace, and Int to Damage) and then take Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel. (It lets levels in the two classes stack for Sneak Attack, Grace, and dodge bonus to AC.) After that, just take as many Rogue levels as possible (to maximize Sneak Attack) and go to town.

Good advice, except for one thing. If you're going for some sort of duelist type, especially with that LA, it's probably better to max Swash instead of Rogue. Because of Daring Outlaw you'll still get sneak attack, but it will be with a better BaB and better Hp as well. Your choice in the end, though.

RTGoodman
2008-12-23, 02:19 AM
Good advice, except for one thing. If you're going for some sort of duelist type, especially with that LA, it's probably better to max Swash instead of Rogue. Because of Daring Outlaw you'll still get sneak attack, but it will be with a better BaB and better Hp as well. Your choice in the end, though.

I was actually just coming back to edit my post and add that in - I always forget that Swashbuckler has full BAB, so I figured Rogue would be better because of the better class features (Evasion, rogue special abilities, etc.). :smallredface: Either way works, though, I guess.

Stephen_E
2008-12-23, 02:46 AM
I suggest you 1st read the SRD on Pixies. See below.
You'll note that they get Weapon Finnesse as a bonus feat. In short I'm not sure you want to take Swashbuckler at all.

If you're looking for a Swashbuckler Rogue type I think you might be better off just playing a Scout. This is especially good if your GM allows you to take the "Great Flyby Attack" from Savage Species. Allow you to fly along a line and attack a number of targets along that line within your reach upto your Dex modifier. This has the advantage of not having to end your turn next to the enemy. Note Scout also had D8 HD (good HD are crucial to Pixies).

Whatever classes you take seriously think about Spiked Chain. The reach means you can full attack without been adjacent to your enemy. Again I stress. Avoid ending up adjacent to your enemy. Greater invisibility can NOT be relied on to save you.

If you can manage taking your 1st level as Barbarian without getting hit by multiclass penalties I suggest you strongly think about doing so. the 12hps + Con bonus could be the difference between life and death, considering those are the only hps you get for the 1st 5 levels.

Stephen E


Pixies As Characters
A pixie character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level.

Pixie characters possess the following racial traits.

-4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma.
Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
A pixie’s base land speed is 20 feet. It also has a fly speed of 60 feet (good).
Low-light vision.
Skills: Pixies have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats.
+1 natural armor bonus.
Special Attacks (see above): Spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels.
Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling.
Favored Class: Sorcerer.
Level adjustment +4 (+6 if the pixie can use irresistible dance).

TempusCCK
2008-12-23, 02:56 AM
No, do not take Swashbuckler past 3, it's a very poor class after that point, you'd be better off with Swash 3/Rogue 17 and maybe some fighter crammed in there for extra feats.

Enochi
2008-12-23, 05:51 AM
I Think I am gonna go with either

Rogue 5/ Swordsage 6/ Invisible Blade 5

or

Fighter 16 with
Dodge(pixie bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(pixie bonus)
Imp Initiative
Mobility
Exotic weapon(Spiked chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Combat Reflexes
2 weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus(spiked Chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Darkstalker
Flyby Attack
Imp Flight
Elusive target
Spectral Skirmisher
Imp 2 Weapon fighting
Robilars gambit
Deft opportunist
Double hit
Vexing Flanker
Adaptable Flanker


or can anyone think of anything better cause I know I cant :/

Enochi
2008-12-23, 05:14 PM
What about the Dervish prc? Do you think that could work well?

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-12-23, 05:18 PM
What about the Dervish prc? Do you think that could work well?

Not enough levels, and the build is wrong.

You're already loosing 4 levels on racial (not a bad race, one of the few 3+LA races that can be worth it), and you're wanting to rogue/swash anyways. Not going to be able to fit Dervish in there. Sorry.

If you want to get a 1 level dip in Swordsage, you can get Island of Blades (flank if any of your allies threaten it, regardless of normal flanking dyanamics) as a stance, then go with Shadow Blade to add Dex to damage, since you've already got Weapon Finesse.

only1doug
2008-12-23, 05:31 PM
I Think I am gonna go with either

Rogue 5/ Swordsage 6/ Invisible Blade 5

or

Fighter 16 with
Dodge(pixie bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(pixie bonus)
Imp Initiative
Mobility
Exotic weapon(Spiked chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Combat Reflexes
2 weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus(spiked Chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Darkstalker
Flyby Attack
Imp Flight
Elusive target
Spectral Skirmisher
Imp 2 Weapon fighting
Robilars gambit
Deft opportunist
Double hit
Vexing Flanker
Adaptable Flanker


or can anyone think of anything better cause I know I cant :/

sneak attack Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) + thug variant fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) (they can specifically stack) Losing all fighter feats and heavy armour proficiency but gaining better skill points and sneak attack damage.

Enochi
2008-12-23, 05:52 PM
One of the problems I am running into with what to run rogue/swash is the multiclass exp penalties. Anyway to get around those?

(edit) Also how does the 1st hd as class work exactly?

monty
2008-12-23, 05:55 PM
One of the problems I am running into with what to run rogue/swash is the multiclass exp penalties. Anyway to get around those?

(edit) Also how does the 1st hd as class work exactly?

Did you ask your DM to confirm that they're actually enforcing those penalties? Personally, I've never played in a game that used them.

You lose the fey hit die the standard pixie has, and get a class level instead. So, instead of LA 4 / Fey 1 / Whatever X, it's just LA 4 / Whatever X.

Devils_Advocate
2008-12-23, 06:21 PM
Pixie SRD entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie). Scroll down to the "Pixies As Characters" bit. There ya go. All their racial traits. (Well, they also have the Fey type.) Pixies with class levels don't have to worry about the weirdness of racial HD.

Note that this is changed from the MM entry, incorporating errata. They gave them Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat in place of a 1/day Polymorph Self ability they used to have. Much more balanced. Be sure to use the current version.

Pixie is great for a straight-up Rogue archer build. This is one of the few builds where LA is worth it and then some. Almost everything you lose by giving up levels gets made up for via excellent racial bonuses. Flight completely removes the need for several skills. Combine that with high Int, and you can fill both the breaking-and-entering and social-skills roles quite well. Invisibility lets you conveniently sneak attack at range without needing to endanger yourself by moving in to flank. Don't let the low Fort save and hit points worry you, your foes have to get past a solid array of defenses before those even become an issue.

Archery is just more a typical pixie's style. They much prefer to use their flight and invisibility to avoid being hit, staying out of melee range and out of sight. A swashbuckler is more about acrobatically tumbling and jumping around on the ground. Doing that when you can fly strikes me as kind of like a human attacking without using his hands.

But, of course, Adventurers Are Weird. A pixie melee fighter might not be any more insane than the people he works with. It just doesn't strike me as particularly optimal nor natural for the race, is what I'm saying.

Special note: Encumbrance by weight really is a balance factor, especially for a low-Strength Small race that can fly, but only with no more than a light load. So don't just ignore this, and don't just blindly dump a pixie's Str. Being rather limited in what she can carry is a restriction that a pixie has to worry about in the normal course of various tasks, just as her landbound companions sometimes have a hard time circumventing obstacles she can just fly over. And she'll take her own abilities and limits for granted every bit as much as a human does.

Enochi
2008-12-23, 07:25 PM
Ok thanks for the help. Here is a tentative build that looks promising.

1: Pixie: Dodge (racial), (Weapon Finesse), Weapon focus: (Daggers)
2: Pixie
3: Pixie: Point Blank Shot
4: Pixie
5: Fighter: Precise Shot
6: Rogue: Far Shot
7: Fighter: Rapid Shot
8: Rogue:
9: Rogue: Two Weapon Fighting
10: Invisible Blade
11: Master Thrower Quick Draw
12: Invisible Blade Many Shot
13: Invisible Blade
14: Invisible Blade
15: Invisible Blade Improved Rapid Shot
16: Master Thrower
17: Master Thrower
18: Master Thrower Improved two weapon fighting
19: Master Thrower
20: ?

Thoughts?

Enochi
2008-12-23, 09:29 PM
With this build I think by 19 ecl I should be able to toss 12 daggers a round correct?

monty
2008-12-23, 09:31 PM
Drop Manyshot; it doesn't apply to thrown weapons.

Fostire
2008-12-23, 09:31 PM
Note Scout also had D8 HD (good HD are crucial to Pixies).

With spell resistance, damage reduction, a +8 to dex, +1 natural armor, flight, and greater invisibility at will I'd say that a big HD isn't that important.
Unless the enemy has flight they can only shoot arrows or spells. Spells will find it hard to get past SR and since arrows can't be power attack'd, they will find it hard to get past the DR. Even if the enemy has flight they still have to find him (due to invisibility) and even if they do, he still has a pretty good AC.

Enochi
2008-12-23, 09:45 PM
Drop Manyshot; it doesn't apply to thrown weapons.

Its prereq for Imp Rapid Shot

monty
2008-12-23, 09:52 PM
Its prereq for Imp Rapid Shot

Ah. Never mind, then.

Chineselegolas
2008-12-23, 10:15 PM
You don't get feats in LA. 1st level feat would be at ECL 5, when you take your first class level and gain your first HD. And then the 2nd at 3HD

Assassin89
2008-12-23, 11:08 PM
Two words: Irresistible Dance

The effect imposes a -4 penalty to Armor Class and a -10 penalty on Reflex saves, and it negates any AC bonus granted by a shield the target holds.
It makes sneak attacks easier to hit

Enochi
2008-12-23, 11:15 PM
You don't get feats in LA. 1st level feat would be at ECL 5, when you take your first class level and gain your first HD. And then the 2nd at 3HD

Ouch does that effect things like inciator level for ToB:Manuevers too?


Two words: Irresistible Dance

It makes sneak attacks easier to hit

yeah very nice but as only 1/10 pixies have it makes in unlikely I would from a rp perspective. Also it is another 2 level ajustment.

ericgrau
2008-12-23, 11:37 PM
Ok thanks for the help. Here is a tentative build that looks promising.

1: Pixie: Dodge (racial), (Weapon Finesse), Weapon focus: (Daggers)
2: Pixie
3: Pixie: Point Blank Shot
4: Pixie
5: Fighter: Precise Shot
6: Rogue: Far Shot
7: Fighter: Rapid Shot
8: Rogue:
9: Rogue: Two Weapon Fighting
10: Invisible Blade
11: Master Thrower Quick Draw
12: Invisible Blade Many Shot
13: Invisible Blade
14: Invisible Blade
15: Invisible Blade Improved Rapid Shot
16: Master Thrower
17: Master Thrower
18: Master Thrower Improved two weapon fighting
19: Master Thrower
20: ?

Thoughts?

You don't get feats for LA. Only HD and class levels. For all in game purposes your LA does not exist. It's only for balancing you with others. (EDIT: so it does exist in regards to xp, for example).

At higher levels you'll want a powerful magic weapon, and needing to carry multiple weapons severely limits how much you can spend on each one. That's on top of another -2 and light weapon; all those combined can easily make you weak. Your strength may hurt your thrown damage. Daggers are up to you, and I dunno maybe master thrower makes up for it, but I wouldn't.

I'd get a shortbow or crossbow myself. Rapid shot is well worth it b/c there's nothing to worry about besides the -2. You can then stack damage enchantments on top of your sneak attack for a massive total, with maybe a little enhancment bonus to keep your AB up.

Other notable gear: boots of speed for haste, gloves of dex, bracers of archery, lots of light weight darkwood and mithril b/c your strength is low. If your dex meets or exceeds 24 (which it probably will), get monk's belt + bracers of armor (or a friendly mage w/ mage armor). That'll give cheaper AC. Since you already have endless invisibility you shouldn't need much AC though. Focus on your weapon.

Enochi
2008-12-23, 11:52 PM
Ok thanks everyone for the help here is another build. Im not sure if the feats I have are worth it in the end but I figured it was worth a try.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id=pyhtu-qevKoLtHrBbAiwnVw.02756510559319924875.84253798222 26229027&action=1&tile=0&rpert=100&tfe=qa_109&srow=0&fprt=false&scol=0&ecol=

Its a Fighter/Thug Sneak attack variant so pretty close to a rogue. Thanks for the info on the crossbow I think there is a feat that lets me add 1/2 dex damage to it as well. I will look into it next.

Darrin
2008-12-23, 11:55 PM
One of the problems I am running into with what to run rogue/swash is the multiclass exp penalties. Anyway to get around those?


There's a feat in Unearthed Arcana, I think it's called Additional Favored Class.

Other than that, there are a few templates that add or change your favored class, but unfortunately I'm not aware of any that favor rogues or swashbucklers. Dragonborn of Bahumat would add Fighter (and I think there's a sneak attack ACF for fighters?), but you'd lose all of your really cool Pixie racial class abilities.

monty
2008-12-24, 12:20 AM
Dragonborn of Bahumat would add Fighter (and I think there's a sneak attack ACF for fighters?), but you'd lose all of your really cool Pixie racial class abilities.

Hey look! Now for my +4 LA I get...some stat modifiers and small size. Yay.

Enochi
2008-12-24, 12:55 AM
Ok here is a Ranged build that should work. What do you think?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id=pyhtu-qevKoJvGSWyLZyRHw.02756510559319924875.23950510666 37287640&hl=en&action=1&tile=0&rpert=100&tfe=qa_119&srow=0&fprt=false&scol=0&ecol=

Vortling
2008-12-24, 01:36 AM
Ok here is a Ranged build that should work. What do you think?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id=pyhtu-qevKoJvGSWyLZyRHw.02756510559319924875.23950510666 37287640&hl=en&action=1&tile=0&rpert=100&tfe=qa_119&srow=0&fprt=false&scol=0&ecol=

Your link gives me a blank page.

Enochi
2008-12-24, 01:39 AM
Class BAB Fort Reflex Will Ability 1 Ability 2 Ability 3 Ability 4 Sneak Attack Attack Damage
.
1 Pixie Dodge (Racial) Weapon Fineasse(Racial)
.
2 Pixie
.
3 Pixie
.
4 Pixie
.
5 Fighter 1 2 0 0 Rapid Reload Weapon focus:(Light Crossbow) 11 1d6
.
6 Fighter 2 3 0 0 Crossbow Sniper 12 1d6+4
.
7 Rogue: 2 3 2 0 Point Blank Shot Trapfinding 1d6 12 1d6+4
.
8 Rogue: 3 3 3 0 Evasion 1 dex 13 1d6+4
.
9 Rogue: 4 4 3 1 Trap Sense +1 2d6 14 1d6+4
.
10 Fighter 5 4 4 2 Rapid Shot 13/13 (1d6+4)x2
.
11 Fighter 6 5 4 2 Weapon Specialization: Light Crossbow 14/14/9 (1d6+6)x3

.
12 Avenger 6 5 6 2 Death Attack Poison Use 1 dex 3d6 15/15/10 (1d6+6)x3

.
13 Avenger 7 5 7 2 Precise Shot poison +1 Uncanny Dodge 16/16/11 (1d6+6)x3

.
14 Avenger 8 6 7 3 4d6 17/17/12 (1d6+6)x3

.
15 Avenger 9 6 8 3 poison +2 18/18/13 (1d6+6)x3

.
16 Avenger 9 6 8 3 Many Shot Imp uncanny Dodge 1 dex 5d6 18/18/13 (1d6+6)x3

.
17 Avenger 10 7 9 4 poison +3 19/19/14 (1d6+6)x3

.
18 Avenger 11 7 9 4 6d6 20/20/15/10 (1d6+6)x4

.
19 Avenger 12 7 10 4 Improved Rapid Shot poison +4 Hide in Plain Sight 23/23/18/13 (1d6+6)x4


.
20 Avenger 12 8 10 5 1 dex 7d6 24/24/19/14 (1d6+7)x4
.

.
32 Point buy Base Racial 1st level 20th
.
Race: Pixie Str: 14 -4 10 10
.
Weapon: Daggers Dex: 18 8 26 30
.
Con: 14 14 14
.
Wis: 6 4 10 14
.
Int: 16 6 22 14
.
Cha: 4 6 10 11
.
AC 10 2 20 22

Stephen_E
2008-12-24, 08:02 AM
With spell resistance, damage reduction, a +8 to dex, +1 natural armor, flight, and greater invisibility at will I'd say that a big HD isn't that important.
Unless the enemy has flight they can only shoot arrows or spells. Spells will find it hard to get past SR and since arrows can't be power attack'd, they will find it hard to get past the DR. Even if the enemy has flight they still have to find him (due to invisibility) and even if they do, he still has a pretty good AC.


The Bad guys often have some way of detecting invisibility. Add area effect spells and/or spells that ignore spell resistance, or even the occasional squad of archers with Cold Iron Arrows, and you're in trouble.
Remember it's quite standard for BBEGs to be spell casters, and the spellcasters will be higher level than the party, so they'll have better than 50% chance of penetrating spell resistance. 10th lev party = Pixie SR 21 (15+6 character levels) vs 14th level caster with spell penetration needing a 5 to get trhe spell through. Ice Storm is a 4th level spell, no save, SR roll likelt to suceed, does 5d6 damage (av 17.5 hps). This will put a 7th level Pixie Rogue down in one shot. Empower it and things get scarier. Or just hammer a couple of Magic Missiles into it.

When you're 4 HD down it doesn't take much to put you down, and you need to check with you GM if you can turn visible as a free action on taking enough damage to render you unconcious, or you'll bleed to death without your party realising you're down.

The silliest idea is a Pixie sorcerors with d4 HD. Fireball and the Pixies all fall down.

Stephen E

ericgrau
2008-12-24, 08:41 AM
Class BAB Fort Reflex Will Ability 1 Ability 2 Ability 3 Ability 4 Sneak Attack Attack Damage
.
1 Pixie Dodge (Racial) Weapon Fineasse(Racial)
.
2 Pixie
.
3 Pixie
.
4 Pixie
.
5 Fighter 1 2 0 0 Rapid Reload Weapon focus:(Light Crossbow) 11 1d6
.
6 Fighter 2 3 0 0 Crossbow Sniper 12 1d6+4
.
7 Rogue: 2 3 2 0 Point Blank Shot Trapfinding 1d6 12 1d6+4
.
8 Rogue: 3 3 3 0 Evasion 1 dex 13 1d6+4
.
9 Rogue: 4 4 3 1 Trap Sense +1 2d6 14 1d6+4
.
10 Fighter 5 4 4 2 Rapid Shot 13/13 (1d6+4)x2
.
11 Fighter 6 5 4 2 Weapon Specialization: Light Crossbow 14/14/9 (1d6+6)x3

.
12 Avenger 6 5 6 2 Death Attack Poison Use 1 dex 3d6 15/15/10 (1d6+6)x3

.
13 Avenger 7 5 7 2 Precise Shot poison +1 Uncanny Dodge 16/16/11 (1d6+6)x3

.
14 Avenger 8 6 7 3 4d6 17/17/12 (1d6+6)x3

.
15 Avenger 9 6 8 3 poison +2 18/18/13 (1d6+6)x3

.
16 Avenger 9 6 8 3 Many Shot Imp uncanny Dodge 1 dex 5d6 18/18/13 (1d6+6)x3

.
17 Avenger 10 7 9 4 poison +3 19/19/14 (1d6+6)x3

.
18 Avenger 11 7 9 4 6d6 20/20/15/10 (1d6+6)x4

.
19 Avenger 12 7 10 4 Improved Rapid Shot poison +4 Hide in Plain Sight 23/23/18/13 (1d6+6)x4


.
20 Avenger 12 8 10 5 1 dex 7d6 24/24/19/14 (1d6+7)x4
.

.
32 Point buy Base Racial 1st level 20th
.
Race: Pixie Str: 14 -4 10 10
.
Weapon: Daggers Dex: 18 8 26 30
.
Con: 14 14 14
.
Wis: 6 4 10 14
.
Int: 16 6 22 14
.
Cha: 4 6 10 11
.
AC 10 2 20 22

Looks nice. Wish I knew more about the avenger, but I notice he has a solid sneak attack progression so everything else is icing. The gear I mentioned would add more, of course, but you can always figure that out later.

I should clarify that I didn't like throwing weapons in general and don't know much about the master thrower. Basically you'd be losing up to 8ish d6's and/or +1's on your weapon at the highest levels, 2 AB, plus some sneak attack damage unless it adds that. If it lets you throw multiple daggers within the same attack you only get sneak attack damage on the first dagger. So you'd have to weigh any extras it gives vs. all that lost damage and lower chance of hitting.

I'll agree that the pixie can be in trouble as soon as you meet something with both see invisibility and range/AoE that can break your save & evasion & SR, but that shouldn't be often unless your DM is out to get you. If you really fear for your life in such a situation, you can always escape speedily. I don't see anyone saying "Don't play a rogue b/c some creatures are immune to sneak attack." Stuff happens some times, and you just deal with it.

Vortling
2008-12-24, 01:01 PM
The Avenger. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) It was a april fools day joke. It's the assassin class with different fluff and alignment requirements. Do noted that the table on the page is wrong, they don't get 21 known spells.

Enochi
2008-12-24, 01:55 PM
Even so I is balanced and has full print out by WotC. I can easily swing in by my dm.

Stephen_E
2008-12-25, 07:09 AM
I'll agree that the pixie can be in trouble as soon as you meet something with both see invisibility and range/AoE that can break your save & evasion & SR, but that shouldn't be often unless your DM is out to get you. If you really fear for your life in such a situation, you can always escape speedily. I don't see anyone saying "Don't play a rogue b/c some creatures are immune to sneak attack." Stuff happens some times, and you just deal with it.

Um. Having your Pixie die because the GM had the BBEG surprise your party with a Ice Storm isn't "the GM trying to kill you". "Not been very effective is some standard situations" is quite different from "going down/dying 1st move in some standard situations". With the +4LA balancing the +8 Dex your Relex remains emmiently failable as a Rogue, so even stock area effects spells such as Fireball will hit you a fair amount of time. Sure you can always fly 30' away from the party, but it limits your roleplay and sooner or later will piss off your GM enough to hammer you with the party none the wiser.

A decent HD, at least at 1st level, and probably a 16+ Con, are so that your GM doesn't have to shape combat and choose strategies specifically to avoid killing you by accident. It's like playing a Wizard with 6 Con. Sure you're not supposed to be in combat but there are limits.

Stephen E

ericgrau
2008-12-25, 09:47 AM
Pixies can keep their greater invisibility up at all times, so it'll be up even during a surprise. And seriously? Ice storm? I never heard anybody even mention that spell until someone wanted to find a way to take out a pixie. I mean, it's only 5d6 damage for a 4th level spell. SR applies and even if that fails, it's only 20.5 damage average. With his 14 con he'll have that by 3rd level (ECL 7), probably in time for an ice storm.

I'd be more willing to believe an unlucky fireball. A large majority of the time that and similar spells won't break both his SR and evasion and they'll do no damage at all. Assuming he's even within the blast radius. But when they do finally hit they'll hit for full damage. If your party has a caster try asking him for a fire resistance spell since that's the most common damage type. Lightning as well if you can get 2 (e.g., energy resistance + protection from energy).

Do boost your con regardless. Consider swapping your int and con in the stats you gave, besides picking up an amulet of health. Make it 2nd priority only behind dex. Taking another look at your feats, I'd make point blank shot, rapid shot and precise shot your highest priorities. Precise shot can maybe wait if your party fights enough monsters that 1 isn't engaged with a fellow party member. Otherwise you'll need it soon. I'd grab a shortbow instead of a crossbow since you managed 10 strength. Sure it averages 1 point less on damage, but it'll save you the rapid reload feat. From there the feat order you have is fine.

Signmaker
2008-12-25, 10:39 AM
I know it says so in the Srd, but are you SURE that the Pixie has Weapon Finesse free? I can't find that in any Monster Manuals.

monty
2008-12-25, 01:04 PM
I know it says so in the Srd, but are you SURE that the Pixie has Weapon Finesse free? I can't find that in any Monster Manuals.

It was an errata, I believe.

Signmaker
2008-12-25, 02:55 PM
It was an errata, I believe.

Ahuh.. the part about making Weapon Finesse a Bonus Feat and adding alertness? I didn't know that that extended to PCs.

Enochi
2008-12-25, 05:25 PM
Pixies can keep their greater invisibility up at all times, so it'll be up even during a surprise. And seriously? Ice storm? I never heard anybody even mention that spell until someone wanted to find a way to take out a pixie. I mean, it's only 5d6 damage for a 4th level spell. SR applies and even if that fails, it's only 20.5 damage average. With his 14 con he'll have that by 3rd level (ECL 7), probably in time for an ice storm.

I'd be more willing to believe an unlucky fireball. A large majority of the time that and similar spells won't break both his SR and evasion and they'll do no damage at all. Assuming he's even within the blast radius. But when they do finally hit they'll hit for full damage. If your party has a caster try asking him for a fire resistance spell since that's the most common damage type. Lightning as well if you can get 2 (e.g., energy resistance + protection from energy).

Do boost your con regardless. Consider swapping your int and con in the stats you gave, besides picking up an amulet of health. Make it 2nd priority only behind dex. Taking another look at your feats, I'd make point blank shot, rapid shot and precise shot your highest priorities. Precise shot can maybe wait if your party fights enough monsters that 1 isn't engaged with a fellow party member. Otherwise you'll need it soon. I'd grab a shortbow instead of a crossbow since you managed 10 strength. Sure it averages 1 point less on damage, but it'll save you the rapid reload feat. From there the feat order you have is fine.


Uhh Not running crossbow really hurts as my Crossbow sniper feat I think is a big boost. I mean that feat lets me add 1/2 my dex as damage and extends the range I can sneak attack from to 60ft.

Stephen_E
2008-12-25, 06:55 PM
Pixies can keep their greater invisibility up at all times, so it'll be up even during a surprise. And seriously? Ice storm? I never heard anybody even mention that spell until someone wanted to find a way to take out a pixie. I mean, it's only 5d6 damage for a 4th level spell. SR applies and even if that fails, it's only 20.5 damage average. With his 14 con he'll have that by 3rd level (ECL 7), probably in time for an ice storm.

I'd be more willing to believe an unlucky fireball. A large majority of the time that and similar spells won't break both his SR and evasion and they'll do no damage at all. Assuming he's even within the blast radius. But when they do finally hit they'll hit for full damage. If your party has a caster try asking him for a fire resistance spell since that's the most common damage type. Lightning as well if you can get 2 (e.g., energy resistance + protection from energy).



Ice Storm has it's points. 3d6 of it is bludgeoning damage, so gets past energy protection, and there is no save against it. No save spells are very useful.

As for how often a Fireball (or any other area effect spell) will work. A BBEG caster will get past the Pixies SR approx 75% of the time. Saves climb faster than DC's , but still until mid-teen levels you're looking at about a 50% chance of getting past the reflex save. So in all you're looking at a 1/3 chance of getting the Pixie.

If the Pixie hides his/her existance from the rest of the world then you've got a reasonable chance, but very limited roleplaying opportunities. If the Pixie intereacts with the world then lots of opportunities for roleplaying, but then they're known and enemies will be prepared for the Pixie to some degree.

But the one thing we agree on is that pumping Con is important with a Pixie. They can survive a moderate degree of fragility but there are limits.

Stephen E

Fostire
2008-12-25, 07:18 PM
Ice Storm has it's points. 3d6 of it is bludgeoning damage, so gets past energy protection, and there is no save against it. No save spells are very useful.
If it's bludgeoning, that means DR applies (I think) and 3d6 averages to 10.5 so with DR 10, the pixie only receives .5 damage on average.


But the one thing we agree on is that pumping Con is important with a Pixie. They can survive a moderate degree of fragility but there are limits.

Stephen E
Con is important to any class, which is why many think the dwarf is overpowered. Its probably the only stat you can't dump.

ericgrau
2008-12-25, 10:13 PM
Uhh Not running crossbow really hurts as my Crossbow sniper feat I think is a big boost. I mean that feat lets me add 1/2 my dex as damage and extends the range I can sneak attack from to 60ft.

Ahh, so that's what that feat does :smalltongue:. Wow, that's pretty good. Okay, do that before the feats I recommended like you have. But still switch around the others I think.

And it's seeming like the O.P. will be rather lucky if he faces an ice storm. Fireball/lightning is the real source of fear, though it may or may not take time to get unlucky on one. IMO get enough HP to survive at least one (35 HP on average, 40+ to be safe), and at the rare times that you do get unlucky consider fleeing and chugging potions or pleading with the party cleric.

And the dwarf is overpowered. I mean a boost to con and penalty to cha? Sign me up. Oh, and then he has 479 other little nice abilities. The gnome is too for casters who dump strength anyway. But he gets less love. In a lot of games skills aren't that important, so the elf, half-elf and halfling get kinda shafted. Humans are good and the half-orc is kinda like the anti-gnome in that he's decent enough for pure martial classes since the mental penalties are almost no loss to them. But yeah, dwarf clearly shines above all those except maybe human.

Stephen_E
2008-12-26, 05:16 AM
If it's bludgeoning, that means DR applies (I think) and 3d6 averages to 10.5 so with DR 10, the pixie only receives .5 damage on average.



Good point. I really don't know whether it would or not. Does it count as "Blugeoning energy" or not :smallsmile:. Would energy substitution work on it?

But as pointed out by Ericgrau the Fireball, Cone of Cold or like is what you have to seriously worry about. There is a ewasonable chance of it getting through so you desperately need the hp buffer to still be comcious after it gets past your SR and Save. Thus why I reccommend Pixies taking 1st lev as Barb. Personally I think it should be favoured class for them to explain how they still exist as a race. 12+Con bonus at 5th lev is so much more livable than 4+Con bonus of the Pixie Sorceror.

Stephen E

Enochi
2008-12-26, 02:35 PM
Well the current build I am running is fighter for my 1st level with 16 con. So that puts me at 5th level with an hp of 13.

Stephen_E
2008-12-26, 07:23 PM
Well the current build I am running is fighter for my 1st level with 16 con. So that puts me at 5th level with an hp of 13.

That's not bad. While you'll still fall over if area effect blasted, you have a chance of not dying. Now just make sure the party has a way of finding you quickly if you're unconcious. A Familiar/Animal Companion with blindsense or scent would be good. You could even look at investing in a trained animal with the tricks to locate you if down. Maybe even a dog/monkey pair, the dog finds you and the monkey pours a potion down you.

Stephen E