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dspeyer
2008-12-23, 02:38 AM
RETURN OF THE GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE XVI: A SAD ARMY OF ONE

You may recall Duke of URL's original Army of One Challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73021). The goal here is the same, to build a character that can serve as an entire party, but with an added challenge: you must use the ability array 18/14/10/10/10/8 (assign as you wish). While you may boost stats besides your primary (with races, equipment or 4n levels), this may not be central to the character. The real challenge here is to wrap everything a party needs around a single stat.

As before, leadership and equivalents are banned, but animal companions, familiars and the like are ok (draconic mounts are pushing it).

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

We'll follow Duke of URL's old rules plus with a few minor changes.

For numeric attributes with progressions (such as BAB and saves) first determine at each level which progression the attribute follows, then count how many levels of each progression you have, then index into the progressions, then add them together. This means that a fighter 1 / sorceror 19 // wizard 20 has 1 level of good BAB and 19 of bad, giving +1 and +9 respectively for a total BAB of +10. Similarly, a character with 20 different marshal classes gets a base fort save of +12, not +40. It's not addressed in the gestalt or multiclassing rules, but this tends to make the most reasonable builds.

Disregard the clause about multiclassing penalties. We could never figure out how to apply it anyway.

If you are using multiple templates, you may only do so in a way which makes sense with what the template means. For example, you may only use one template that represents one parent being of a different race unless your base race is one where more-than-two parent reproduction is normal.

Well known cheese (pun-pun, omnificer, etc.) is banned.

Here are Duke of URL's old rules, for those who have forgotten them. Spoilered because they're long


Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each) Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

Eloel
2008-12-23, 02:50 AM
I'll give it a start
Dread Necromancer 20//Favored Soul 20
or
Dread Necromancer 20//Bard 20

Buff your undead up as much as you want. Only Cha needed :)

Malacode
2008-12-23, 02:50 AM
I'm not gonna enter, but I'd just like to say there are a number of feats that I've come across that allow you to shift certain things to other stats, like AC to Con rather than Dex (Con to AC, because the otehr way round is just ridiculous), or certain spellcasting powers (For the paladin) to Wis rather than Cha. Just saying, with the right feats, this almost becomes too easy. Just imagine a Palamonk with the aforesaid feat. They get Spellcasting, and AC bonus and numerous class features all based off Wis, and that's without any optimising at all (I mean, it's using Monk. Geez.). They can heal, they can fight, they can take damage, they can take on undead.... Just saying, this could be easier than it looks.

Eloel
2008-12-23, 02:53 AM
A Dragon Shaman 20//Dread Necromancer 20 could also work wonders. Yes, I'm thinking of a flying lich that breathes fire (or any other energy) upon masses, when his army of undead is buffed by your double auras (there's a feat that allows you to double-project dragon shaman auras)

Malicte
2008-12-23, 02:59 AM
Not planning on entering, but if I did I'd stat out a Factotum 20//Warblade 5/Chameleon 10/Master of Masks 5. Obviously your stat of choice is intellect. With factotum AND chameleon, you can literally do anything, even getting feats you can shift daily. The warblade levels give you a little better staying power, and the Master of Masks brings yet more flexibility to the table.

Eldariel
2008-12-23, 03:13 AM
Factotum//Wizard/Incantatrix/Shadowcraft Mage. The best skill monkey (with Int to practically everything, along with Factotum-level to everything), superb spellcaster, chain tripper tank with Persistent buffs (more actions through AoOs), a fine healer between Opportunistic Piety and Use Magic Device, has Int to AC on level 3, can pick Improved Familiar for a second support wand wielder/skillmonkey/tank (and a bit later, can imbue Familiar with spells) and just a do-it-all.

Of course, he doesn't Craft much (although I guess you could pick up Craft-feats and can later summon anything you want), but that's what money is for. I guess he could pick up Mercantile Background. I was thinking of a Warforged Factotum//Artificer, but the Wizard gets Incantatrix, which means Persistent spells for everyone, and has a real spell list (unlike Artificer, which has to make stuff to do things).

Eloel
2008-12-23, 03:27 AM
A Dragon Shaman 20//Dread Necromancer 20 could also work wonders. Yes, I'm thinking of a flying lich that breathes fire (or any other energy) upon masses, when his army of undead is buffed by your double auras (there's a feat that allows you to double-project dragon shaman auras)

For the stats on this build, put 18 in Cha, 14 in Con. Buff Cha as much as you want. Keep Con up for hitpoints and breath save DC.
You can be Human, or the halfling subrace that gives you feat, as this build is pretty feat-hungry. You'll probably need/want many metabreath feats, and you'll need quite a bit Libris Mortis feats that will buff your undead army. You'll need Double Draconic Aura, as 2 auras are always good :)

Epic_Wizard
2008-12-23, 03:36 AM
What does PrC's stand for?

I figure I'll use this as something to do over Winter Break. Could be tricky though as I left all my D&D books at college... Time to go dig out PDF's =D

Eldariel
2008-12-23, 03:39 AM
What does PrC's stand for?

Prestige Class

Eloel
2008-12-23, 03:41 AM
A Swashbuckler 9/ Ranger 11//Rogue 19/Swashbuckler (10th level) would also be quite useful
18 dex, 14 wis, 8 rest
Get weapon finesse, use the Two-Weapon combat style for free. Get your Animal Companion to help you flank, use 10d6 of sneak attack damage on the 7 attacks (without any haste or optimization, this is only the basic TWF). You'll get 4-5 of them hit, due to your high dex, and weapon finesse. That's an average of 40-50d6 damage/round, and your AC (animal comp.), even if low level, is quite useful. Get the smallest AC you can, for it to be harder to hit (and kill).

Epic_Wizard
2008-12-23, 03:50 AM
Prestige Class

So "dual progression" is two at once or those ones that affect more than one class at a time? (+1 level of spell casting ability to two classes and the like)

Eldariel
2008-12-23, 04:22 AM
So "dual progression" is two at once or those ones that affect more than one class at a time? (+1 level of spell casting ability to two classes and the like)

At its simpliest, "dual progression PrC" is something that advances two progressions at once. For example, Mystic Theurge from Dungeon Master's Guide would be a dual progression PrC since it progresses both, your divine and arcane casting. This is problematic in Gestalt, since qualifying for dual progression is trivial, and normally the reason that keeps dual progressions' power level in check is the fact that qualifying for them requires multiclassing and thus being worse at both sides than a singleclassed character.

With Mystic Theurge in Gestalt, you could easily just pick 3 levels of Wizard on one side, 3 levels of Cleric on the other and then continue with Mystic Theurge while picking auxillary classes on the other side. This gives you two full casting progressions and a tertiary progression, which means you effectively have one full list of abilities (minus 3 levels) over standard Gestalt-characters. The restriction is in place because Gestalt already pretty much acts as a "dual progression", and there's simply no need for dual progression as Gestalt already solves that system.


The other limitation is that you may not take a PrC-level on both sides of the progression at once. Or you may, but this results in "cheese points".

The Mormegil
2008-12-23, 07:29 AM
The winner of the last contest really needed just Int to work, maybe Wis but it can be dipped if you want.

Jack_Simth
2008-12-23, 08:24 AM
Human Sorcerer-5/Mage of the Arcane Order-10/Abjurant Champion-5//Ghost LA 5/Hexblade-3/Variant Paladin-2 (Pick either Tyrrany or Slaughter, as Hexblade requires non-good)/Monk-2/Cleric-1 (For Pride Domain)/Evolved Undead-7

Feats:
1: Arcane Preparation
HB: Cooperative Metamagic
3: Heighten Spell
6: Combat Casting
9: Elemental Summoning
12: Ascetic Mage
15: Dimensional Reach
18: Acidic Splatter
Note: Also gets two bonus Metamagic feats from Mage of the Arcane Order

Significant Abilities list
Full Charisma-based spellcasting (Sorcerer)
Charisma to AC once vs. everyone, again vs. foes on the material plane
Charisma to saves vs. spells once, Charisma to all saves once
+18 Racial Charisma
Fast Healing (either 3 or 21, depending on how you count)
Incorporeal
Rejuvenation for self-resurrection
Evasion
Mettle
Reroll all saving throw results of 1 (Pride domain)
Extra domain

Highlights:
With Elemental Summoning and Arcane Sight, finds basically all traps of note (if it's not magic, and a Medium/Large elemental doesn't set it off, it's pretty harmless).
With Incorporeality, has a 50% miss chance on most things that penetrate AC.
With Fast Healing and offensive Reserve feats, can fight mooks all day.
Very high AC, most of it touch.
Virtually untouchable by magic that permits a save (very high saves + Reroll 1's + Evasion and Mettle).
With Ghostly Telekinesis can manipulate things pretty much at will.
With Dimensional Reach, can re-equip as needed.
Rejuvenation for when someone actually manages to kill it.
Shield as a Swift action, for +9 AC
+7 Natural Armor (effective on the Ethereal plane only)

Of course, with point-buy, put an 18 in Charisma, 8 in Con, keep dex reasonable.

PurinaDragonCho
2008-12-23, 11:04 AM
What about something like Archivist 8 / Knight of the Raven 10 / Divine Oracle 2 // Factotum 11 / Chameleon 2 / whatever 7?

Malachite
2008-12-23, 11:51 AM
Druid20//Cleric20? :smalltongue:

GryffonDurime
2008-12-23, 01:05 PM
Mmm, I'm tempted to throw out my dear, beloved Rainbow Wu Jen Assassination Deathsquad Seven.

Spellscale Wu Jen 5/Mindbender 1/Incantatrix 4/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 3//Factotum 20

Granted, it's been a while since I built for DnD, so I'm not sure those Prestige levels are quite 100% legal/correct for the build. Even still, copy yourself a few times with Body Outside Body, then use the Archmage to give each copy Transcend Mortality as a Spell-Like Ability. Use the Incantatrix's Metamagic Effect (I believe that's the name) to slap Persists on BOB and TM, and now you've got anywhere from five to twenty+ clones, none of whom can cast spells but all of whom are telepathic, suicidally loyal, can throw free metamagic on your spells as you cast them, can summon the Veils...oh, and each should have the full suite of Inspiration Points and the other abilities of a Factotum.

One-man adventuring party.

Epic_Wizard
2008-12-24, 02:57 AM
With Elemental Summoning and Arcane Sight, finds basically all traps of note (if it's not magic, and a Medium/Large elemental doesn't set it off, it's pretty harmless).

Anti-Magic field set to turn off when you're right in front of the Symbol of Death and or in a room full of explosive Runes.

Or any number of other things. Heck an trap with a Magic trigger that is outside the range of your Arcane Sight would work.

Or something with a trigger on the Ethereal Plane. Besides if the Earth Elemental isn't far enough ahead of you then you go skish. too. (Reverse Gravity keeping the Ceiling up and when you go far enough in it dispels and the ceiling drops on you) (yes I would make an EVIL trapsmith)

Enochi
2008-12-24, 03:52 AM
Pixie LA 4/Marshal 16//Sorcerer11/Malconvoker 9

Should net either SR 51 or 31
DR of 10/cold Iron

Feats to enhance summoning and all that good stuff.

Main stat is cha

dspeyer
2008-12-27, 01:18 AM
ninja 1 / bard 1 / rogue 5 / paladin of freedom 5 / favored soul 8 // sorcerer 7 / virtuoso 10 / loremaster 3

feats: ius, ascetic mage, extra smiting, arcane disciple (healing), quicken, dmm(quicken)...

cha > wis > ...

Arcane: 19th lvl sorceror
Divine: 8th lvl fs. Most of the non-healing, non-resurrecting divine magic above 4th level has arcane equivalents. High level healing comes through arcane disciple. Resurrection is best done with scrolls anyway (the material components dominate the scroll cost, so why waist a spell known?) and the necessary wis can come from an arcane owl's wisdom.
Skills: 6+int except 2-7 are 8+int and 18-20 are 4+int
Violence: cha to hit (via smite) with 4d6 precision damage.

Jack_Simth
2008-12-27, 10:00 AM
Anti-Magic field set to turn off when you're right in front of the Symbol of Death and or in a room full of explosive Runes.

Or any number of other things. Heck an trap with a Magic trigger that is outside the range of your Arcane Sight would work.

Or something with a trigger on the Ethereal Plane. Besides if the Earth Elemental isn't far enough ahead of you then you go skish. too. (Reverse Gravity keeping the Ceiling up and when you go far enough in it dispels and the ceiling drops on you) (yes I would make an EVIL trapsmith)
Basically all = not those designed against the tactic. See, as the DMG guidelines for mechanical traps include arbitrarily high DC's, if you're going this route, you can't use trapfinding, either, as the trap's seach DC can always be 21 higher than your search bonus. Are you going to criticize anyone relying on skills, as they are subject to being run roughshod over?

In a competition with the DM, the player ultimately can't win.

Of course, bizzarely, the trigger being on the Ethereal plane doesn't hurt anything. See, by RAW, a manifested ghosts' abilities affect both the Ethereal and Material planes - which means that elemental is on both planes. Arcane Sight, Detect Magic, and the like have the exact same penetration profile, so the ghost floating on the ethereal can see anything that would trigger for it. Especially if the ghost uses a Ring of X-Ray Vision or similar.

Further, if you do manage to kill the ghost... it's back in 2d4 days, with no loss of level. Whether the roll is needed or not depends on the level.