Starting to give up on finding a new 3.5 group.

[newbDM]

So I am having troubles with my current group, especially with one player who caused me to end my sandbox campaign world early (which I worked quite hard on, and am still actively working on). I am having some other problems with the other DM's game (we switched games each week), and the one who just took my week's game is way too busy to do anything besides modules upon modules and calling it a "campaign" (I just need a bit more than that).

I have tried the following sites so far:

http://www.meetup.com (http://dnd.meetup.com/cities/us/fl/kissimmee/?from=loc_pick) (The only groups nearby are of the local gaming store which is very 4.0 only, and one I tried but did not fit in well with).
http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/index.php (Great site, but only a handful of games/players anywhere near me, and all either devoted to 4.0 or apparently do not use the site anymore.)
http://www.altamontespringsd20.info/community/ (I just found this one, but the most recent post was from November, and there are no messaged for 3.x games period.)


In all the above cases it seems that there are way very few groups/players as it is, and practically all that there are are into 4.0.


I have talked to the head manager at my local gaming store (and the only one nearby that does any role-playing), and I was going to try setting something up there if I could find players, but I talked to the store chain's owner yesterday and that all ended before it started. The guy basically banned me from using my collection of books on my macbook (which cost me a ton to get legally), and any players from using them either, to promote buying from the store. He did not even care that 3.x is out of production, or that he even stated multiple times in the past that he will not be able to get new 3.5 books for either me nor the players to play. He said to use Pathfinder when it comes out Next August, and it did not matter that I highly dislike Pathinder (or Paizo for that matter).


So right now I am not sure what to do, or if I should just give up. I was devoting this vacation from college to finally finish my sandbox world's/cosmology's website (http://www.freewebs.com/celestialkin/) (I am currently finishing up the Deities and Planes section) in the hopes of reviving the world during this vacation period, but I am not so sure now.

Can any experienced gamers who have been in similar positions please gove me some advice here? I would be happy just playing in another person's campaign at this point and forgetting about DMing again.

[Ponce]

MeetUp is how I found my current group. To be fair though, it was the only posting for my city (which is a rather large one, ~half a million people).

Try going to a local university or college, even if you are not enrolled there. Look for postings and things, especially in the engineering buildings (many dnd players are concentrated in places of higher learning).

Good luck

[SolkaTruesilver]

I don't know if I qualify as "experienced gamer", but maybe you should consider playing something else than 3.5 for the moment. And I am not talking about 4.0. There are many other RPGs around, and many of them give other gaming experience that you might enjoy.

Think of it as a reprise. It will be easier for you if you try to find an "RPG" group rather than a "DnD 3.5" group. GURPS, Warhammer Fantasy, WH40k, World of Darkness, all of those can give what you really are looking for: fun having an adventure.

Except if you are only really excited by powergaming and rule-abuse, then DnD 3.5 is the perfect game for you, and I can't find an alternative for you...

[Narmoth]

Why do you have to set up in your local gaming store? Try your local church / mosque (spelling?) / temple of satan, or high school, youth center, library or wherever. Actually, schools / high schools / universities are wonderful places to get players. Just put up some discrete ads (that's man size posters in case you wondered) and talk with people

[Rei_Jin]

I'd get in touch with your local RPGA group who would be playing 4th edition, and see if there's anyone there who still plays 3.5. Odds are that there is, and you should be able to start there.

[newbDM]

I don't know if I qualify as "experienced gamer", but maybe you should consider playing something else than 3.5 for the moment. And I am not talking about 4.0. There are many other RPGs around, and many of them give other gaming experience that you might enjoy.

Think of it as a reprise. It will be easier for you if you try to find an "RPG" group rather than a "DnD 3.5" group. GURPS, Warhammer Fantasy, WH40k, World of Darkness, all of those can give what you really are looking for: fun having an adventure.

Except if you are only really excited by powergaming and rule-abuse, then DnD 3.5 is the perfect game for you, and I can't find an alternative for you...

In the past I was offered to play in three other systems,. The first time I went out and bought the expensive book (Palladium Fantasy), and then was not invited to the game. Then over the next two years got offered to play in two other systems, and both times it did not get off ground. Thankfully in the second two times I was paranoid and did not buy the books (the second time it was even a game supposedly going to be run by the store manager mentioned above, so he was insistent in me buying the book), but would have lost out if I did.

...Wait, there was recently a fourth such incident. This time it was Gurps.

So you can see why I am cautious about getting into a new system. Plus, I feel I have just finally gotten a good grasp on 3.5 (with memory problems and other learning disabilities that is a good and hard to get feeling).

I do not enjoy powergaming, optimizing, or rules-abuse at all. In fact I can not understand the appeal to those things, besides trying to feel like a god in make-believe. I much prefer role-playing. If you have seen my recent treads about the latest character of mine you would see that I actually prefer weaker "fun" characters, and I actually had to make that jokeish character to actually get some fun out of the new DM's module-fest.

[newbDM]

I'd get in touch with your local RPGA group who would be playing 4th edition, and see if there's anyone there who still plays 3.5. Odds are that there is, and you should be able to start there.

RPGA? Not familiar with said term with an A.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Then over the next two years got offered to play in two other systems, and both times it did not get off ground. Thankfully in the second two times I was paranoid and did not buy the books (the second time it was even a game supposedly going to be run by the store manager mentioned above, so he was insistent in me buying the book), but would have lost out if I did.

...Wait, there was recently a fourth such incident. This time it was Gurps.


Well, 2 comments:

1) You have an unfortunate streak of badluck, or there is something wrong with the peoples around you. Don't blame it on the other rule systems.. And there is nothing wrong with not knowing such rule system before beginning to play it, as long as you are willing to learn over time (a.k.a. not asking how to make your attacks/skills after the 3rd game session)

2) The store manager who insist on "you buying the book to play the game" sounds like a cheap trick to make you buy the books. Very cheap on his part, I wouldn't ever trust someone like that.

[newbDM]

Well, 2 comments:

1) You have an unfortunate streak of badluck, or there is something wrong with the peoples around you. Don't blame it on the other rule systems.. And there is nothing wrong with not knowing such rule system before beginning to play it, as long as you are willing to learn over time (a.k.a. not asking how to make your attacks/skills after the 3rd game session)

2) The store manager who insist on "you buying the book to play the game" sounds like a cheap trick to make you buy the books. Very cheap on his part, I wouldn't ever trust someone like that.


You know, it just reaches a point when you just do not feel like making the same mistake again.

When news broke of 4.0, for a good while I was very into the idea of getting away from WotC and D&D. Talked to a lot of people about, looked at the above group finding sites (along with others), preached about how D&D had a monopoly on the gaming industry, etc. In the end it got me nowhere. D&D 3.5 is now becoming how the other gaming systems are in this area, dead. I hear that in other cities there are bigger communities of smaller systems, but here there seems to be none at all.

For example, I was really interested in Exalted for a while (and that happened to be the system the above manager was planning to run later on), so I went to their site and was pleased to see that they had a whole local meet up database with a search feature. So I emailed every single entry there for my area dating from the start of the year (it was late 2007 at the time), and I only got a reply from two of them back, and both said their games were no longer running. And there were quite a few entries to boot.

[Ellisande]

You know, it just reaches a point when you just do not feel like making the same mistake again.

No, I don't see why you're cautious about trying new systems. It's weird to me that you call any of these "mistakes", even if they are frustrating. It's hard to find a group even in a system that you know*--I see the fact that it's a new system as irrelevant to the problems you had with joining. Do you really think that it's because these groups didn't play 3.5 that they didn't work for you?
That said, I certainly wouldn't join a group that insisted I purchase books prior to joining. Every group I've been in has had more than enough copies of the books without any new purchases, and if they aren't willing to share at least for a couple sessions...

But even if you do have to get a book you may never use? It's hardly money wasted. 90% of my game books are from systems I've never played... and I knew that it was likely I'd never use them when I bought them. They're still fun to read and fodder for the imagination.


*As you've discovered, given that you've had several abortive attempts to join/create 3.5 groups already.
---------------------------------
But in any case, I'd:
a) Never going back to that game store. The owners seems sketchy and unfriendly at best.

b) Check other gaming stores. I don't know where you are, but if you're in a city...

c) As mentioned, universities and other venues can also serve as recruiting grounds. (Especially universities, most of which already have gaming clubs.)

d) Look online. If you are open to other systems, SJ Games runs a database of players for GURPS and their other products at http://www.sjgames.com/gamerfinder/, and I imagine other publishers do the same.
If you're not, look for gaming-specialized sites for your locality. And cross-post. When we were looking for players, my group advertised on at least 4 different message boards.

And above all, don't get discouraged by your failures. There are always failures before successes with this.

[Rei_Jin]

RPGA is the organisation that ran Living Greyhawk, and is running Living Forgotten Realms. They work with Wizards to do so, and are in most countries around the world.

If you're not sure, google them.

[Felirc]

Well, I've been in a similar position just trying to find a group to begin with. =\ I guess the only thing I can recommend is to give PbP or PbE-mail a shot. I know this isn't exactly what you were asking for, but I would like to note that both here and over at myth-weavers 3.5 seems to be the most popular system being used.


I was paranoid and did not buy the books (the second time it was even a game supposedly going to be run by the store manager mentioned above, so he was insistent in me buying the book)

And that's why I started making all my game book purchases at Amazon... =P


-Felirc-

[Starscream]

I know it just isn't the same as playing in person, but have you ever considered an online game? Using tools such as IRC, Skype, OpenRPG and so on, you can find people playing any system under the sun on the internet.

That's what I'm doing at the moment, playing a 3.5 campaign over OpenRPG. At first I was bummed when my schedule (I keep having to go back and forth between my home town and college) forced my to leave my gaming group, but in time it has grown on me somewhat.

Sure, the social interaction aspect takes a bit of a hit, but with Skype you can still hear peoples' voices. And I've noticed that people playing online tend to have an easier time roleplaying than in person. A lot of people who would be completely embarrassed to speak as a dwarf in front of their friends have no problem doing so over the web.

Believe me, I'm not proposing it as a substitute for social interaction (not a WoW player). But if you've exhausted all other options, it's a shame to have to give up your hobby just because you can't find enough people around who share it.

[Mando Knight]

RPGA? Not familiar with said term with an A.

Go here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga) It should explain.

That said... wow. Your local game store is a lot less friendly than the one at my college.

[KeresM]

I've actually had good luck finding players on the wizards.com website.

Are you willing to host at your house? If so, just ask if you can put up a flyer at the game store, and try one at your local library/school. I recommend an email address instead of a phone number (I found a great group when I tried this method, but I also got a lot of crank calls and unwelcome lectures).

[JaxGaret]

That said... wow. Your local game store is a lot less friendly than the one at my college.

I guess newbDM has a NSFLGS (Not So Friendly Local Gaming Store). :smallsmile:

[Who_Da_Halfling]

Yeah, they sound infinitely worse than, well, every gaming store in my area. Both at home and at university, I found most gaming circles are quite friendly.

I highly recommend checking out a local university. Particularly at the start of the upcoming semester, student groups often hold general interest meetings to get things going again, and gaming groups are no exception. Especially, student groups generally care more about the group cause than profit, which seemed to be the primary concern of your local gaming store. This means that such groups won't care if you buy the books or if you DL them.

Alternatively, I do suggest that running an online campaign may be a good bet. This is a more reliable method if you seek to DM it rather than playing, since playing is at the whim of the DM to be an active, regular participant. If you're willing to run the game regularly, then PbP or other online methods can be very effective. I know that I found it easier to RP in text form than tabletop, and I doubt I'm alone. I also didn't have a gaming group until this past semester, so all my gaming was online.

Good luck with it either way, I'm feeling quite lucky to have a group now...

-JM

[Starscream]

Ditto on the university idea. I'm a computer science major and the bulletin boards in our building often have fliers for gaming groups on them.

[only1doug]

I guess newbDM has a NSFLGS (Not So Friendly Local Gaming Store). :smallsmile:

I have to agree, the Local Gaming store sounds like somewhere that local gamers would avoid.

I'd never go back to that shop, it sounds like they have taken Games Workshop's approach to customer relations: everyone must use current figures and have their own set of current rules.

[newbDM]

Well, the store is actually quite friendly. It just seems that the store chain's owner is kind of strict on this part, and in my opinion a bit unrealistic on the availability of 3.5 material.


I posted a flier at that store, and another nearby last week, but no emails yet. I would try my community college, but the people who hang out at the lounge there are a bit...off.


Any other places or websites I should hit up?

[MammonAzrael]

I would see if you could reserve a meeting room or empty classroom at your local college campus for whatever night of the week you prefer to play. Most are pretty cool with it, as long as you don't make a mess.

You might also consider a 24 diner, like Denny's. I played in a campaign for several months where we meet at the local Denny's weekly. It has the upside of lots of food and coffee. Of course, this assumes you play in the evening, when they have a quieter section of the restaurant and tables to spare.

The Church/Temple/Religious building is another good idea (assuming they won't try to burn you at the stake for playing D&D :smalltongue:)

And....I just realized you were looking to find players, not a place to play. :smallsigh:

There I'm afraid I can't really help, I'm looking for a RL group myself still.

EDIT: Damn it, why do you have to be just 70 miles away Fax? So close and yet so far! :smallsigh:

[Fax Celestis]

...where are you, geographically? Because I'm "LFG" too.

[monty]

You should try just asking around; it shouldn't be too hard to find someone that plays 3.5. In my area (~half a million people), I don't know of a single group that plays 4E, and both groups I play with are exclusively 3.5 (when we play D&D, at least).

[JaxGaret]

I would try my community college, but the people who hang out at the lounge there are a bit...off.

Er... you are looking for D&D players, no?

[AslanCross]

Sigh, you're not the only one. It seems the only D&D players in this country have no desire at all to reach out to other people, even fellow players. I found exactly one online community here.

With only 10 members.
With the last post in the forum having been posted in 2005.

I was only able to start a group because my audience was practically captive. :P (My students/members of our creative writing club at school.)

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Er... you are looking for D&D players, no?

Just ponder for a moment how strange someone has to be before a D&D player considers someone to be "a bit off." :smalleek:

[WitchSlayer]

I've been trying to get some friends on the internet to meet regularly for IM D&D games. It has not worked out well. I should probably try to go out and around my city to find them, but the closest ones are probably pretty far away.

[Leper Master]

All I ask of 4.0, why fix what is not broken?

Can you not convince the local gaming store peers to play outside of the store?
(pauses for gasps).
I personally only played once with people from my gaming store, a bunch of good guys, but keep misusing suggestion spells.

[Necrotheologist]

I've used this site with some success:

http://nearbygamers.com/

[Izmir Stinger]

but I talked to the store chain's owner yesterday and that all ended before it started. The guy basically banned me from using my collection of books on my macbook (which cost me a ton to get legally), and any players from using them either, to promote buying from the store. He did not even care that 3.x is out of production, or that he even stated multiple times in the past that he will not be able to get new 3.5 books for either me nor the players to play.

This guy is an idiot. Any event that increases traffic to his store - even if it means allowing you to freely share products that compete with his merchandise - will be a boon to his business. Getting them in the store for hours at a time will dramatically increase their impulse purchase rate. Players will buy dice and miniatures and other gaming material that they would normally be disinclined to buy - just because it is there tempting them the whole time they are playing.

[newbDM]

I've used this site with some success:

http://nearbygamers.com/

Thank you for the link.

It seems interesting, but I am having some difficulty understanding what to do with tags. Can you please explain to me how that works?

[Tacoma]

I second the suggestions that you look for other gaming stores, and university bulletin boards.

Also, check out anything you can find in/about your local libraries. It's not the best place to run a game unless they have closed reading rooms where your noises of joy and sorrow won't escape to irritate anyone else.

Check out used bookstores. They tend to be staffed by understanding people, and even if they're not into RPGs I've known many to be pleased that people could get that much entertainment out of what is essentially theater acting with books.

Wargaming clubs? You might find many gamers who just want to try D&D and transition back into normal wargaming after some time. But some might stick.

And ask friends if they know anyone who's looking for a group. Ask any players you get if they know anyone.

There's a danger in connected players. Ideally all your players will be single people with no kids in their 20s or their 40s. Young enough to think D&D is more important than other Saturday night pursuits, or old enough that they're figured it out for themselves. In between you find a lot of people "mature" out of gaming.
No kids is obvious. It's hard to geta sitter sometimes.
Single is the clincher. When you've a wife or girlfriend or boyfriend or husband it's easy to find other things to do. Especially if the two also have kids.

But unconnected is important too. You don't want two players to be joined at the hip so that if one doesn't play the other one also won't. You end up with your maximum group size of about 6 or 7 (you don't want more than that to show up all at once one dreary Fall day) but if two connected pairs decide to skip that session you're down to 2 or 3. The chances of four people having a wedding or funeral to go to are slim, but two at once happens often.

You'll also see people with spotty attendance from Thanksgiving through New Years, and from the time it starts getting nice outside to the time it starts getting cold. Again, people have other things to do than gaming.

All that said, I wouldn't worry about it until you have plenty of people to play in the first place. And I've found that a couple who games together make especially good players even if their characters do always seem to be very cooperative with each other ;)

[IQMonkey7]

hey man. wonder if you can guess who I am. anyways I have looked over the rules for your sandbox world. I have to say I like it. There is however one major suggestion I would make. It regards how you treat magic. You should realize that magic is an integral and important part of D&D. So much so that 2 of the 4 class types (arcanist and cleric, the other two being warrior and theif) Rely almost entirely on magic.yes magic can be rare, but spells should not be so hard to obtain. The fact is that warriors and theif classes are already ballanced with magic users so if you weaken the magic users people will not want to play them. And there are people who take as much pleasure in playing magic users as they are meant to be as you enjoy playing a dogbold. That being said Magic users can still be rare, its just that the PCs who play ones are the rare people. Part of being a good DM is keeping your players happy, sorry to say. My recomendation is to keep the 3.5 classes as they are in the PHB (you can always as more) but force your PCs to explain how they are getting their spells, such as a wizard studing from his grandfather's old spellbook. Other than that I think your universe is great. Oh and if you want me to make that NPC we were talking about last time we talked let me know. I would be more than glad to.

[...Despicable..]

hey man. wonder if you can guess who I am. anyways I have looked over the rules for your sandbox world. I have to say I like it. There is however one major suggestion I would make. It regards how you treat magic. You should realize that magic is an integral and important part of D&D. So much so that 2 of the 4 class types (arcanist and cleric, the other two being warrior and theif) Rely almost entirely on magic.yes magic can be rare, but spells should not be so hard to obtain. The fact is that warriors and theif classes are already ballanced with magic users so if you weaken the magic users people will not want to play them. And there are people who take as much pleasure in playing magic users as they are meant to be as you enjoy playing a dogbold. That being said Magic users can still be rare, its just that the PCs who play ones are the rare people. Part of being a good DM is keeping your players happy, sorry to say. My recomendation is to keep the 3.5 classes as they are in the PHB (you can always as more) but force your PCs to explain how they are getting their spells, such as a wizard studing from his grandfather's old spellbook. Other than that I think your universe is great. Oh and if you want me to make that NPC we were talking about last time we talked let me know. I would be more than glad to.


Magic classes, balanced with the melee classes?

Take a look at the back pages of this forum. You will see that is far from the case.

[monty]

...are you sure you posted in the right thread?

[Lorien077]

I know what you mean... I live in a college town and can't find a game.

DnD 3.5 is my fav. and while I like pathfinder I am perfectly happy with the standard 3.5.

We should start an LFG sticky somewhere.

[Zincorium]

I know what you mean... I live in a college town and can't find a game.

I live in a town of 5,200 people that is cut off from the outside world for approximately half the year. It's location varies. I still manage to get groups together :smallbiggrin:.

[Knaight]

You might want to not try finding a new group. Just invite a few of your nerdier friends over, and at some point ask them if they want to try D&D. Most of my players never played a role playing game before I introduced them to Fudge, the rest used to play D&D, and now prefer Fudge. I'm still in high school, and some of my players are my brothers friends, or my friends younger siblings, who are more willing to try new things, so it will probably be harder for you, but its probably easier than trying to find a whole bunch of people who already play 3.5.

[Paul H]

Hi

If you live in UK then this might help

http://www.ukroleplayers.com/forum/

Cheers
Paul H