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Dark Herald
2008-12-27, 12:20 AM
My friends and I recently tried doing some homebrewed CoC and Cyberpunk with nothing but online charts and Srds and the core 3.5 books.

We had a pretty interesting discussion of feats. We decided that, in addition to all of the normal feats that work for all systems, we added a house rule of "any feat giving +2 to two skills, with proper justification." neadless to say, this has lead to such classics as

Sneaky Surgeon
(heal and hide)

Legal Eagle
(Spot and Diplomacy)

Shark Sleuth
(Swim and Gather Information)

Mountain Mage
(Climb and Spellcraft)

Zoo Buster
(Handle Animal and Open Lock)

many more are surely out there...

So, Do you have any funny ones? Are these [not these ones, but the whole idea] Balanced? Are these worth taking?

BRC
2008-12-27, 12:24 AM
The above make no sense, they merely have a linked name. The +2/+2 feats area always linked activities: (Hiding and Moving Silently, spotting and Listening are both acts of perception, ect). "Sneaky Surgeon" dosn't make any sense, what does sneaking have to do with healing people.

Dark Herald
2008-12-27, 12:26 AM
Most of the feats people came up with were related, the above were non serious examples.

Bassikpoet
2008-12-27, 12:28 AM
Zoo Buster
(Handle Animal and Open Lock)

The feat every every animal rights activist needs.

Surgical Theater
(Heal and Perform)

Inyssius Tor
2008-12-27, 12:29 AM
"Legal Eagle"? "Shark Sleuth"? We don't have a roffle smiley, but your group deserves a very large one indeed. :biggrin:

I'm contributing!
(forgery and autohypnosis)

+2/+2 feats are really profoundly underpowered, probably the least powerful (optimization-wise) feats you'll ever encounter, so I think you're okay balance-wise.

Pie Guy
2008-12-27, 12:32 AM
Well, I'm already going to suck...
+2 to spellcraft and psicraft rolls.


Because you know, multiclassing casters, very underpowered.

Glyphic
2008-12-27, 12:33 AM
Focus Pocus!

Concentration and Spellcraft :smalltongue:

tyckspoon
2008-12-27, 12:36 AM
Are these [not these ones, but the whole idea] Balanced? Are these worth taking?

Generally speaking the answers are, in order, yes and no. Skill feats are usually quite under-powered, because there are almost always better things to spend a rare feat choice on and because skill bonuses are generally pretty easy to get (masterwork items for a +2 bonus, investing in a +x magic item for the relevant stat, getting a cheap +5/+10 or so competence bonus item..) Exceptions occur where a skill is particularly powerful or necessary (ie, Truenamers always always take Skill Focus: Truenaming as their first feat) or when somebody is trying to optimize a particular subject instead of the overall character (Diplomancers make good use of Focus: Diplomacy and Negotiator.) Letting people put together their own combinations would give you more generally useful skill feats, but it still wouldn't break them.

MisterSaturnine
2008-12-27, 01:08 AM
Alternative Payment
+2 to Diplomacy/+2 to Use Rope

...I am immediately ashamed.

Lert, A.
2008-12-27, 01:11 AM
I don't know what to call it, but I want to go with Iaijutsu Focus/Survival.

AmberVael
2008-12-27, 01:19 AM
Surgical Theater
(Heal and Perform)

I'm suddenly reminded of that really creepy surgeon in Bioshock, Dr. Steinman. o.o

Dark Herald
2008-12-27, 01:21 AM
Good that they aren't overpowered. Nobody took any anyways, but it just illustrates the over abundance of really stupid feats.

Horse Bandit
(Ride and Sleight of Hand)

Hopping Mad
(Jump and Intimidate)

Nautical Bard
(Perform and Swim)

Kitty
(Jump and Move Silently)

Percussive Deduction
(Appraise and Listen)

Ancient Cartographer
(Knowledge Geography and Decipher Script)

Patient Lookout
(Concentration and Spot)

some of these just don't go together, so are only funny when doing both at once is imagined.

Lert, A.
2008-12-27, 01:39 AM
Use Magic Device and Tumble

Neek
2008-12-27, 02:02 AM
I can't help but contribute my own.

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV
Bluff and Heal

Silent, but deadly
Move Silently and Craft (Alchemist)

And that's about as much as I can do. Weird. Thought I could do more.

Pyron
2008-12-27, 02:03 AM
Leap in Logic
(Jump and Sense Motive)

SurlySeraph
2008-12-27, 02:09 AM
I don't know what to call it, but I want to go with Iaijutsu Focus/Survival.

Samuranger!

Psimurai
Autohypnosis and Iaijutsu Focus

Dr. House-ism
Heal and Intimidate

Aron Ralston-ism
Escape Artist and Heal

Misleading Billboard Poster
Forgery and Climb

Rope Talker
Sense Motive and Use Rope

Improved ADD
Concentration and hey wouldn't it be cool if you got +2 to an ability instead of a skill?

Thurbane
2008-12-27, 02:24 AM
Holy Diver
+2 Swim/+2 Knowledge (Religion)
Prerequisite: Must have been out too long in the midnight sea.

Ulti
2008-12-27, 02:25 AM
No, really- I really am a famous inventor.

+2 bluff, +2 craft.

CANNONBALL!

+2 Swim, +2 Jump.

Magnor Criol
2008-12-27, 02:33 AM
Holy Diver
+2 Swim/+2 Knowledge (Religion)
Prerequisite: Must have been out too long in the midnight sea.

Instant Win.

SurlySeraph
2008-12-27, 02:39 AM
Holy Diver
+2 Swim/+2 Knowledge (Religion)
Prerequisite: Must have been out too long in the midnight sea.

Were I female, I would be asking to have your babies right now.

Dervag
2008-12-27, 02:49 AM
The above make no sense, they merely have a linked name. The +2/+2 feats area always linked activities: (Hiding and Moving Silently, spotting and Listening are both acts of perception, ect). "Sneaky Surgeon" dosn't make any sense, what does sneaking have to do with healing people.They're nonsensical, sure. But they are balanced. If anything, they're weaker than the common +2/+2 feats that do make sense. Because "Hide" and "Move Silently" are linked, the same character is likely to need both of them at the same time. Being good at one is made more valuable by being good at the other. Likewise for "Spot" and "Listen," and so on.

But being good at "Move Silently" is not made more valuable by being good at "Heal," or vice versa. So a feat that grants +2 to those unrelated abilities is arguably slightly less powerful than one that grants +2 to a pair of related abilities.

Flavorwise it's insane, but it's at least balanced. If I have a character concept that needs to be a great swimmer and a great detective, there's nothing wrong mechanically with me taking a feat that grants +2 to "Swim" and "Gather Information."

Tempest Fennac
2008-12-27, 02:54 AM
I dont get the Holy Diver reference. What does it mean? Regarding balance, these feats would probably be better for classes with large diverse skill lists in a lot of cases.

Fan
2008-12-27, 02:57 AM
Mcninja:
+2 heal, +2 hide.
Prerequisite:
Trained with batman.:smalltongue:

Townopolis
2008-12-27, 02:59 AM
Beastmaster
+2 Handle Animal, +2 Use Rope

Alternate Beastmaster
+2 Ride, +2 Use Rope

Ladies' Gnome
Prerequisite: Small size or smaller
+2 Diplomacy, +2 Climb

CON Artist
Prerequisite: Taste in really bad puns
+2 Concentration, +2 Bluff


I dont get the Holy Diver reference. What does it mean? Regarding balance, these feats would probably be better for classes with large diverse skill lists in a lot of cases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkysjcs5vFU

Starscream
2008-12-27, 03:43 AM
Mcninja:
+2 heal, +2 hide.
Prerequisite:
Trained with batman.:smalltongue:

Yes!

Percussive Maintenance:
+2 craft, +2 perform

Psychic Paper:
+2 psicraft, +2 bluff

Sonic Screwdriver:
+2 disable device, +2 perform

Regeneration:
+2 heal, +2 disguise

You can all guess what I've spent the last few hours watching...

weenie
2008-12-27, 07:06 AM
Holy Diver
+2 Swim/+2 Knowledge (Religion)
Prerequisite: Must have been out too long in the midnight sea.

You sir just won the internets!

Hawriel
2008-12-27, 07:45 AM
I dont get the Holy Diver reference. What does it mean? Regarding balance, these feats would probably be better for classes with large diverse skill lists in a lot of cases.

Jump on the tyger my son, and rock.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7d6ZwUlXpPU&feature=related

That was awsome surly.

Rising Son
+2 know gambling +2 craft tailer

Satin Knight
+2 search +2 craft writing
requirments, must never get to the end.

Grail
2008-12-27, 07:57 AM
Michael Flatley
Perform (Dance) +2 and Knowledge (Nobility) +2

Ziggy Stardust
Perform (Guitar) +2 and Knowledge (The Planes) +2
Prereq - bitten by a Spider from Mars

Xefas
2008-12-27, 08:07 AM
Quantum Physicist
+2 Knowledge (Physics), +2 Bluff

Game Show Guest
+2 Perform (Knowledge), +2 Concentration

Introduction to Art Professor
+2 Knowledge (Crafts), +2 Craft (Knowledge)

Grail
2008-12-27, 08:39 AM
We had a pretty interesting discussion of feats. We decided that, in addition to all of the normal feats that work for all systems, we added a house rule of "any feat giving +2 to two skills, with proper justification." neadless to say, this has lead to such classics as


Why does there need to be justification or anything tying the two skills together? This kind of feat should just be indicating that the character has a talent in 2 skills, why do they need to be bought as a package deal?

KIDS
2008-12-27, 09:26 AM
I totally love those feats. They might not make that much sense in the "reality" context but they're funny as hell. And the Ladies' Gnome... wahahahaha! Awesome!

How about PC Repair Specialist: +2 Disable Device/+2 Intimidate? When the monitor won't turn on or the motherboard sucks, he grabs it and tosses it into the wall until it starts working!

ericgrau
2008-12-27, 09:53 AM
Why does there need to be justification or anything tying the two skills together? This kind of feat should just be indicating that the character has a talent in 2 skills, why do they need to be bought as a package deal?

The one's in the PHB at least are strongly related. I've seen people consolidate those pairs together into single skills for their own skill systems.

The feats mentioned in this thread, OTOH, are just silly. But I like.

Grail
2008-12-27, 09:59 AM
The ones in all source books are pretty much related, but that doesn't mean that it should be that way. I really like the idea of a feat like this, call it Talented, that lets you choose any two skills to get a bonus of +2 on them. It would be really cool IMO, and make a lot of sense, I can be talented in 2 things that aren't related. Why would I need to take a separate feat for them each, I'm not necessarily focused in them.

I might have good ears (Listen), but bad Eyes (Spot). Im not as good as someone focused, but I'm also good at Riding. So why couldn't I have Listen and Ride as Talents.

Hmmm, waffling. I do that sometimes.

Kurald Galain
2008-12-27, 10:38 AM
The one's in the PHB at least are strongly related.

Yes, but e.g. the Forgotten Realms handbook has a bunch of regional feats that do the exact same thing (+2 to two skills) except that they generally apply to two completely unrelated skills, not unlike what is offered in this thread. Apparently it "makes sense" that everybody from, say, Cormyr gets a bonus to climbing and spellcraft. Because, er, every Cormyrite goes up to the high mountains to, er, look at the magic up there?

Noneoyabizzness
2008-12-27, 10:44 AM
Yes, but e.g. the Forgotten Realms handbook has a bunch of regional feats that do the exact same thing (+2 to two skills) except that they generally apply to two completely unrelated skills, not unlike what is offered in this thread. Apparently it "makes sense" that everybody from, say, Cormyr gets a bonus to climbing and spellcraft. Because, er, every Cormyrite goes up to the high mountains to, er, look at the magic up there?


local education has emphasis on such things. phys ed and knowing spells that may one day kill you.

Catoblepas Rancher
Handle Animal and hide.
Death cheese sells, but who's buying.

Flickerdart
2008-12-27, 11:25 AM
Alternate Beastmaster
+2 Ride, +2 Use Rope
Kinky.

Lost In Translation
+2 Decipher Script / +2 Bluff

Mephit
2008-12-27, 11:50 AM
To my mind, I've only used one of those feats in the PHB once, for Hide and MS. Ever since, I've never felt they were particularily useful.

To contribute to the stream of bad puns and references:

That Meddling Kid
+2 to Search and Craft(Dog Snack)
Prerequisite: Must have solved a mystery or unmasked a villain.

Assassin89
2008-12-27, 12:14 PM
Le Mime
+2 Move Silently, +2 Concentration

Tempest Fennac
2008-12-27, 01:45 PM
I didn't watch the video because anime hurts my eyes and it sounded disturbing, Hawriel. I agree that the Regional feats make sense if there is a proper education system in place (Commoners would struggle to teach their children things lke Spellcraft and UMD unless they are in a really high magic setting).

monty
2008-12-27, 02:22 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV
Bluff and Heal

Hi, everybody! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqImkDgDwHU)

Deth Muncher
2008-12-27, 03:17 PM
Quantum Physicist
+2 Knowledge (Physics), +2 Bluff

Game Show Guest
+2 Perform (Knowledge), +2 Concentration

Introduction to Art Professor
+2 Knowledge (Crafts), +2 Craft (Knowledge)

You can...craft...knowledge?!

EDIT:

Hi, everybody! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqImkDgDwHU)

Y'know, I just can't tell whether Dr. Nick or NPH is a better fit.

Yehomer
2008-12-27, 03:38 PM
The ones in all source books are pretty much related, but that doesn't mean that it should be that way. I really like the idea of a feat like this, call it Talented, that lets you choose any two skills to get a bonus of +2 on them. It would be really cool IMO, and make a lot of sense, I can be talented in 2 things that aren't related. Why would I need to take a separate feat for them each, I'm not necessarily focused in them.

I might have good ears (Listen), but bad Eyes (Spot). Im not as good as someone focused, but I'm also good at Riding. So why couldn't I have Listen and Ride as Talents.

Hmmm, waffling. I do that sometimes.

Actually, the World of Warcraft RPG has just that - a feat called Skilled, which gives you a +2 to any two skills.

monty
2008-12-27, 03:51 PM
How about this one?

Mad Skillz
Prerequisite: Rage or Frenzy class feature
Benefit: One additional use per day of rage or frenzy, and +2 to a skill of your choice


...I feel bad now.

Kurald Galain
2008-12-27, 04:09 PM
How about this one?

Mad Skillz

Also, you gain L33t as a bonus language.

chiasaur11
2008-12-27, 05:17 PM
Dr. Horrible
+2 to craft and perform (song)
Requirements: Must have a PhD in horribleness.

Lert, A.
2008-12-27, 06:04 PM
+2 Acrobatics/Ride

Use your imaginations.

Ninetail
2008-12-27, 06:25 PM
Stand-Up Comic (or, Band on the Run)
+2 to Perform and Endurance

Karma Chameleon
+2 to Hide and Knowledge (Religion)

Six-String Samurai
+2 to Perform and Iaijutsu Focus

Deep Thinker
+2 to Concentration and Swim

Tech Support
+2 to Use Magic Device and Endurance

Poker Face
+2 to Gambling and Bluff

BRC
2008-12-27, 06:42 PM
Does Anybody actually use these Skills?
+50 to Decipher Script and Forgery, because nobody ever uses these skills, ever.

Grail
2008-12-27, 09:41 PM
Does Anybody actually use these Skills?
+50 to Decipher Script and Forgery, because nobody ever uses these skills, ever.

I have seen forgery used a number of times. Letters of Marque, Letters of Credit and Legal Writs (documents of ownership, warrants etc) being the main uses.

BizzaroStormy
2008-12-27, 10:11 PM
Totally Awesome Alabama Liquid Snake

+2 Intimidate/+2 Craft (drug)

Otogi
2008-12-27, 10:25 PM
A skew of an anime reference

Fullmetal Alchemist

+2 to Craft (Alchemy) and Concentration

I promise not to make any more.

Noneoyabizzness
2008-12-27, 10:45 PM
Six-String Samurai
+2 to Perform and Iaijutsu Focus


someone on their way to vegas?

Hawriel
2008-12-27, 11:28 PM
I didn't watch the video because anime hurts my eyes and it sounded disturbing, Hawriel. I agree that the Regional feats make sense if there is a proper education system in place (Commoners would struggle to teach their children things lke Spellcraft and UMD unless they are in a really high magic setting).

Umm what? Its Dio silly metal from the 70s. he did an ablum with Black Sabath when ozzy left the band. I thought it was silly. Sorry it scared you.

Uncle Festy
2008-12-27, 11:40 PM
Focus Pocus!

Concentration and Spellcraft :smalltongue:
You, sir, win.


Improved ADD
Concentration and hey wouldn't it be cool if you got +2 to an ability instead of a skill?
As do you.

LibraryOgre
2008-12-28, 10:17 PM
The above make no sense, they merely have a linked name. The +2/+2 feats area always linked activities: (Hiding and Moving Silently, spotting and Listening are both acts of perception, ect). "Sneaky Surgeon" dosn't make any sense, what does sneaking have to do with healing people.

Not getting killed while healing people?

wadledo
2008-12-28, 10:43 PM
This is what you get for staring at the Sun

+2 Spot/+2 Concentration

I am The Walrus!

+2 Perform Guitar/+2 Profession Walrus

How was I supposed to know she wasn't 18!

+2 Bluff/+2 Tumble

A HA! YOU CAN'T HEAR ME, CAN YOU?

+2 Move Silently/+2 Perform(loudly)

Fan
2008-12-28, 10:44 PM
A skew of an anime reference

Fullmetal Alchemist

+2 to Craft (Alchemy) and Concentration

I promise not to make any more.

You forgot a pre req:
Must be under 5 feet tall.:smalltongue:

ericgrau
2008-12-28, 10:55 PM
House
+2 Heal and +2 Sense Motive. Also provides immunity to any chance of accidental malpractice.

RebelRogue
2008-12-28, 11:07 PM
+2 Acrobatics/Ride

Use your imaginations.
"Voltigeur" would be an approproiate name.

Lert, A.
2008-12-28, 11:11 PM
"Voltigeur" would be an approproiate name.

My mind was a lot dirtier when I thought it up.

RebelRogue
2008-12-28, 11:13 PM
My mind was a lot dirtier when I thought it up.
Oh, I didn't doubt that :smallwink:

FMArthur
2008-12-28, 11:31 PM
This is what you get for staring at the Sun

-4 Spot/+2 Concentration/+2 Wisdom/

Fixed that for you.

togapika
2009-01-15, 05:24 PM
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
+2 Concentration, +2 Craft (motorcycle maintenance)

monty
2009-01-15, 05:43 PM
Rock of Ages
+2 Knowledge (religion), Perform (sing), Perform (string instruments)
-1 to saving throws against bard spells and bardic music effects, because you want rock and roll.

Shadowtraveler
2009-01-15, 06:00 PM
Fighter Diplomacy:

+2 to Intimidate and damage rolls.

LibraryOgre
2009-01-15, 06:41 PM
Rock of Ages
+2 Knowledge (religion), Perform (sing), Perform (string instruments)
-1 to saving throws against bard spells and bardic music effects, because you want rock and roll.

Better name for this feat:

God Gave Rock 'n' Roll to You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w4opXi2yzo)

Thane of Fife
2009-01-15, 07:04 PM
God Gave Rock 'n' Roll to You

On that note:

Wyld Stallyns
+2 Perform (Air Guitar)
40% better chance of stabilizing while dying (you can beat Death at his own game - even best 37 out of 72).

Rickroller
+2 Hide and +2 Perform (Singing)

Evil English Teacher
+2 Intimidate and +2 Speak Language (English)

Assassin89
2009-01-15, 07:11 PM
Whip it
+2 use rope and +2 intimidate

Noiseless dance
+2 move silently and +2 perform(dance)

chiasaur11
2009-01-15, 07:47 PM
On that note:

Wyld Stallyns
+2 Perform (Air Guitar)
40% better chance of stabilizing while dying (you can beat Death at his own game - even best 37 out of 72).


I'd figure even more bonuses. I mean, they form the basis for a utopian society.

Swooper
2009-01-15, 09:53 PM
This thread is too awesome not to jump on the bandwagon. Cookie for each of the references below.

Weaving the Incantation
(Craft: Weaving and Spellcraft)

Beast and the Harlot
(Handle Animal and Perform)

In the Name of God
(Knowledge: Religion and Truenaming)

Shadowplay
(Hide and Perform)

Damn the Machine
(+2 Disable Device and gain Constructs as a favoured enemy)

World of Promises
(Knowledge: Geography and Bluff)

Fear of the Dark
(Hide and Intimidate)

Silent Goddess
(Move Silently and Knowledge: Religion)

Know Why the Nightingale Sings
(Knowledge: Nature and Perform)

Sacrament of Wilderness
(Knowledge: Religion and Survival)

...Allright, enough for now.

Draz74
2009-01-15, 10:56 PM
To Kill a Mockingbird
Knowledge (nature) and Listen

Rock 'n' Roll
Perform (string instruments) and Tumble

Hip Hop
Perform (oratory) and Jump

Beauty and the Beast
Disguise and Intimidate

Mind over Matter
Autohypnosis and Climb

Stayin' Alive
Perform (dance) and Survival

"Star" "Wars"
Knowledge (the planes) and Martial Lore

Dragannia
2009-01-16, 05:36 AM
This thread is too awesome not to jump on the bandwagon. Cookie for each of the references below.

Weaving the Incantation
(Craft: Weaving and Spellcraft)

Beast and the Harlot
(Handle Animal and Perform)

In the Name of God
(Knowledge: Religion and Truenaming)

Shadowplay
(Hide and Perform)

Damn the Machine
(+2 Disable Device and gain Constructs as a favoured enemy)

World of Promises
(Knowledge: Geography and Bluff)

Fear of the Dark
(Hide and Intimidate)

Silent Goddess
(Move Silently and Knowledge: Religion)

Know Why the Nightingale Sings
(Knowledge: Nature and Perform)

Sacrament of Wilderness
(Knowledge: Religion and Survival)

...Allright, enough for now.

Last 2 are from Nightwish, I believe. The others also sound like metal song names.

Swooper
2009-01-16, 06:22 AM
Last 2 are from Nightwish, I believe. The others also sound like metal song names.
Two cookies for you :smallsmile:

Chineselegolas
2009-01-16, 06:26 AM
Mind over Matter
Autohypnosis and Climb
Oh god... Such a bad pun...

Eloel
2009-01-16, 06:54 AM
Annoying Teacher
Knowledge (History) & Knowledge (Geography)

loopy
2009-01-16, 07:26 AM
Quantum Physicist
+2 Knowledge (Physics), +2 Bluff

Alternate Quantum Physicist (aka the Free Man)
+2 Knowledge (Physics), Survival (Well he has survived, hasn't he? :smallbiggrin:)

RMS Oceanic
2009-01-16, 07:36 AM
Martial Arts: Martial Lore & Perform (Any)

Technophobe: Sense Motive & Disable Device

BloodyAngel
2009-01-16, 07:01 PM
Donkey Show - Perform and Handle Animal.

I'm a terrible person.... :smallredface:

monty
2009-01-16, 07:34 PM
Donkey Show - Perform and Handle Animal.

I'm a terrible person.... :smallredface:

Yes. Yes, you are.

I'm going to go wash my brain now.

LurkerInPlayground
2009-01-16, 07:53 PM
"Legal Eagle"? "Shark Sleuth"? We don't have a roffle smiley, but your group deserves a very large one indeed. :biggrin:

I'm contributing!
(forgery and autohypnosis)

+2/+2 feats are really profoundly underpowered, probably the least powerful (optimization-wise) feats you'll ever encounter, so I think you're okay balance-wise.
Meh, Call of Cthulhu D20 is very skill-oriented anyway.

If we want to discuss balance, we kind of have to know what changes he's made to his homebrewed system, if any.

I have a feeling that not all skills are created equal.