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View Full Version : [4e D&D] Battlerager in theory and practice?



Townopolis
2008-12-27, 05:35 PM
I'm interested, always, in defenders who are nigh impossible to kill. Now I tried this once with an all-high-defenses paladin, and he got brutally... brutalized by damage auras and ongoing damage from monster at-wills... anyway.

I'm looking at the battlerager, and thinking battlerager fighter/dreadnought/undying warrior would be pretty bloody sexy, but how does the battlerager fare as a tank's tank?

First off, I'd like to hear what people who've played a battlerager think of the build, how well does the mechanic work. Also, how well do invigorating powers work without the battlerager class feature?

Now, for a little theory, when I build a battlerager, I'm going to be optimizing defensively, so warhammer and shield. I'll want to raise my strength pretty high, and get a decent constitution too. On the other hand, I still think high-defenses across the board are important, and so I'll want to invest a bit in dexterity and wisdom.

So, with a warhammer, chainmail, and a heavy shield, let's look at races.

Human
+2 Strength, +1 to all defenses save AC, +1 at-will, bonus feat.
Always a solid choice, human raises my defenses, lowering my incoming damage. The extra at-will allows me to take tide of iron and cleave. Human doesn't really boost the central aspects of the build, but rather shores up its major weakness (low defenses) and adds some versatility. The bonus feat could also be spent on Improved Vigor, filling in for +2 con (although I'd probably take IV anyway, so it's still just a bonus feat slot).

Minotaur
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Aside from these, the Minotaur's other racial features aren't horribly useful, still the bonuses while charging aren't to be sneezed at, and with the right feats it could make a very sticky defender (opportunity gore, goring shove, shield push... oh my). Still, it seems to actually lag behind human.

Orc
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, Warrior's Surge
A little better at boosting the core concept, Warrior's Surge is yet another way to heal myself during a fight, I hesitate to rate this above minotaur due to the other bonuses (and feats) the bull gets, but still, this is somewhat more useful to the build.

Longtooth Shifter
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, Longtooth Shifting
Worse in stats than any other, +2 to wisdom is effectively 2 stat points less than +2 constitution (since wisdom doesn't really need to be raised above 14, but raising constitution as high as possible is good). However, the real pull of the longtooth, is their encounter ability. As the character progresses, he will gain more and more ways to slow down his loss of HP, allowing him to potentially stay bloodied but not unconscious for a very, very long time. Regeneration is another way to do this, and a form of healing that takes no surges. It is also a pretty reliable damage boost.

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At this point, I am called away by errands, but I will leave this up for whatever comments you wish to leave, evaluations of races, suggestions for builds, or experiences you've had with the battlerager in practice.

Asbestos
2008-12-27, 05:44 PM
What about a dwarf (for stoneblooded) or dragonborn (for whatever that feat is that increases how much hp they get from invigorating powers), in addition to their other racial strengths?

SadisticFishing
2008-12-27, 09:38 PM
Funny, Dwarf and Dragonborn are definitely best for it. Dwarf fighters are amazingly hard to kill, especially once you get Dwarven Durability (Paragon Feat).

Dragonborn are great tanks, as they can mark a lot of dudes, and they also get the +con to their surges - but they don't surge as a minor action.

KKL
2008-12-27, 09:53 PM
Warforged also make great BRV Fighters.

Also, I've never played a Battlerager, but I've played alongside one. They are obscenely tough. Obscenely tough.

Doresain
2008-12-27, 11:12 PM
warforged battleragers with a certain pair of gloves (i always forget the name) make the best tanks...but thats if you're a lover of cheese

Townopolis
2008-12-28, 05:42 AM
Regarding Dwarves: the lack of a strength bonus means I'd either have to buy 18 str at full cost (gag) or end up with a mere +5 to my attacks (gag).

Regarding Warforged: This is indeed true, In fact, they seem to beat out orcs by a fair margin, making them one of the top contenders, if not the top contender.

Regarding Cheese: I know the cheese of which you speak, I do not believe I shall utilize such things, thanks for mentioning it though.

Regarding Dragonborn: There are indeed a number of feats that make them an excellent choice, indeed, they seem to be hinting very, very heavily that dragonborn fighters should be battleragers, or more likely, that battleragers should be dragonborn. This kind of irks me, but that is indeed true.

Asbestos
2008-12-28, 11:43 AM
Regarding Dwarves: the lack of a strength bonus means I'd either have to buy 18 str at full cost (gag) or end up with a mere +5 to my attacks (gag).
Yes, but the WIS bonus should boost your OAs which means you can still stay pretty sticky.


Regarding Cheese: I know the cheese of which you speak, I do not believe I shall utilize such things, thanks for mentioning it though.
There was another thread about this particular cheese, I think the consensus was that "it does not work that way".



Regarding Dragonborn: There are indeed a number of feats that make them an excellent choice, indeed, they seem to be hinting very, very heavily that dragonborn fighters should be battleragers, or more likely, that battleragers should be dragonborn. This kind of irks me, but that is indeed true.
I think its more that dragonborn should be battleragers, since dwarves have a battlerager specific feat as well. I think dragonborn are also pushed towards being bravaura warlords if I'm not mistaken. Basically... dragonborn are reckless psychos, that's what I took away from it (Martial Power).

KKL
2008-12-28, 12:05 PM
Regarding Dwarves: the lack of a strength bonus means I'd either have to buy 18 str at full cost (gag) or end up with a mere +5 to my attacks (gag).

Grow some cojones and suck it up (gag). Just because you're the game's equivalent of a mad Adrenaline junkie, doesn't mean you can't benefit from flanking. A 16 in str won't kill you, and if you're that much of a spineless wimp over having a +2 Prof weapon, grab a +3.