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View Full Version : How good is AMF + Mastery of Shaping?



Frosty
2008-12-27, 11:18 PM
I'm confused over the all the conflicting rules I've heard about AMF, and each interpretation of the rule gives AMF wildly different power levels. I'm thinking of learning that spell, but I really need to know how it works first.

1) If I'm larger than Medium sized, does the AMF spread out 10 ft from every square I occupy?
2) If I use the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping ability to leave a hole in the center of the AMF so that I myself am not in it, how does that interact with enemy spells?
3) What happens if I am within my own shaped AMF, and I cast Timestop?
4) My DM is letting me cast AMF on my Familiar because he counts it as a personal range spell. What kind of shenanigans can I do with this? This of course depends a lot on the answers to question 1 and 2.

UserClone
2008-12-27, 11:30 PM
The answer to 3 is: the same thing that always happens. Timestop only affects you, not anyone else. It speeds time up for you briefly, so that you can get some stuff done before anyone else has a chance to act. The name of the spell is kind of a misnomer that way.:smallconfused:

NEO|Phyte
2008-12-27, 11:31 PM
The name of the spell is kind of a misnomer that way.:smallconfused:

Haste was already taken.

Frosty
2008-12-27, 11:35 PM
The answer to 3 is: the same thing that always happens. Timestop only affects you, not anyone else. It speeds time up for you briefly, so that you can get some stuff done before anyone else has a chance to act. The name of the spell is kind of a misnomer that way.:smallconfused:

We can rename it Superior Haste :smallwink: But no, the question is, will the AMF still travel with you? while under the effects of Time Stop, you can't travel into an AMF zone.

Eloel
2008-12-28, 01:35 AM
SRD says...

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you.

Frosty
2008-12-29, 02:00 AM
Cool. Now anyone wanna tackle the other questions or do I have to repeat this in the RAW thread?

Curmudgeon
2008-12-29, 02:36 AM
The answer to 1) is no. Spells are always centered on grid intersections. "Centered on you" means you can pick any grid intersection that your character touches (4 for medium size; 9 for large size), but the spell's area is always the same.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-29, 02:41 AM
1) If I'm larger than Medium sized, does the AMF spread out 10 ft from every square I occupy?

It originates in a 10' radius from a point, which can be centered on any corner of your current square, or a corner of any square in your current space. It doesn't matter how large your character is, the spell is never greater than a 20' diameter.

2) If I use the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping ability to leave a hole in the center of the AMF so that I myself am not in it, how does that interact with enemy spells?

According to the Rules Compendium, AMF doesn't block Line of Effect for spells. That means opponents can target you with spells and rays regardless of the AMF, as long as both the point of origin (the opponent) and the target (you) are outside the effect of the AMF.

3) What happens if I am within my own shaped AMF, and I cast Timestop?

The Time Stop works as normal, and the AMF travels with you as normal.

4) My DM is letting me cast AMF on my Familiar because he counts it as a personal range spell. What kind of shenanigans can I do with this? This of course depends a lot on the answers to question 1 and 2.

Just don't shape it, cast it centered on your familiar, and have your familiar jet over to the opponents to get them stuck inside its effect. Your familiar could single-move near them, then ready an action to move so they're inside the AMF if they try to cast a spell or use a magical ability, though it's probably not worth spending such a high-level spell on.

Curmudgeon
2008-12-29, 02:57 AM
4) If you've got a flying familiar it's really easy for them to fly to 10' above some enemy who is in the air by magic, and just furl their wings to stop flying. Both the enemy and familiar drop due to gravity, and stay in the same orientation all the way down. The familiar opens its wings and flies up when the enemy goes splat.

Frosty
2008-12-29, 10:06 PM
1) If I'm larger than Medium sized, does the AMF spread out 10 ft from every square I occupy?

It originates in a 10' radius from a point, which can be centered on any corner of your current square, or a corner of any square in your current space. It doesn't matter how large your character is, the spell is never greater than a 20' diameter.

2) If I use the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping ability to leave a hole in the center of the AMF so that I myself am not in it, how does that interact with enemy spells?

According to the Rules Compendium, AMF doesn't block Line of Effect for spells. That means opponents can target you with spells and rays regardless of the AMF, as long as both the point of origin (the opponent) and the target (you) are outside the effect of the AMF.

3) What happens if I am within my own shaped AMF, and I cast Timestop?

The Time Stop works as normal, and the AMF travels with you as normal.

4) My DM is letting me cast AMF on my Familiar because he counts it as a personal range spell. What kind of shenanigans can I do with this? This of course depends a lot on the answers to question 1 and 2.

Just don't shape it, cast it centered on your familiar, and have your familiar jet over to the opponents to get them stuck inside its effect. Your familiar could single-move near them, then ready an action to move so they're inside the AMF if they try to cast a spell or use a magical ability, though it's probably not worth spending such a high-level spell on.

I'm worried about the enemy *kersplatting* my familiar if it gets next to them though. We're only fighting high level demons and demonlords from here on out.

Also, I managed to convi nce my Dm to houserule it so AMF does block line of effect :p How does this change my tactics?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-29, 10:53 PM
If AMF blocks LoE for any spells that it suppresses, you could still cast instantaneous Conjuration: Creations through it, such as the Orb spells and some Wall spells. (Greater) Shadow Conjuration could also be useful for duplicating such spells for more versatility.

Since AMF would block LoE, cast it Shaped on your Familiar so it's not affected and make it Invisible. Simply casting a (Quickened) Invisibility on it would work, or give it a potion or ring of invisibility, or get Improved Familiar for the Imp or Quasit which should always stay Invisible anyway.

Without knowing more about your character I can't really give specific advice.

Frosty
2008-12-30, 09:24 PM
Why would I make my familiar invisible? :smallconfused:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-30, 09:40 PM
Why would I make my familiar invisible? :smallconfused:


I'm worried about the enemy *kersplatting* my familiar if it gets next to them though. We're only fighting high level demons and demonlords from here on out.


True Seeing (Su)
[High-level demons] continuously use true seeing as the spell (caster level X).
They can't see through its invisibility through an AMF, it blocks supernatural effects.

Siosilvar
2008-12-30, 09:42 PM
Why would I make my familiar invisible? :smallconfused:

Presumably so that it won't be targeted, plus you now have a (preferably flying) mobile AMF.

EDIT: and as the person above me, the AMF will (with this houserule) block LoE of True Seeing/See Invisibility.

Frosty
2008-12-30, 09:44 PM
But then *I* can't see my familiar either right?

Siosilvar
2008-12-30, 09:50 PM
But then *I* can't see my familiar either right?

Good point. Empathetic link won't let you do that and is blocked by the AMF anyway.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-30, 11:06 PM
Speak with Master (Ex)
If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.
You can still tell it where to go, and most people get to control their familiar's actions as though it's another character anyway.

Frosty
2008-12-31, 02:16 AM
Not me though. My DM houseruled that to controlmy familiar, I must spend a move action. Reaaaaally annoying, but...

martyboy74
2008-12-31, 03:36 PM
Here's another Time Stop and AMF question:

If you cast Time Stop within an AMF utilizing Invoke Magic (LoM), what happens? Are you frozen, unable to move? Can you move with that AMF, a no others? All AMFs?

Siosilvar
2008-12-31, 03:40 PM
Not me though. My DM houseruled that to controlmy familiar, I must spend a move action. Reaaaaally annoying, but...
Talking Is A Free Action(I don't think anyone needs the link).

Frosty
2009-01-02, 08:46 PM
Talking Is A Free Action(I don't think anyone needs the link).

I know, but apparently I must spend 3 seconds to make sure my familiar understands me. I feel like I'vedominated the creature and am making it do stuff.

He also says Animal Companions also take a Move Action to control.

NEO|Phyte
2009-01-02, 09:18 PM
He also says Animal Companions also take a Move Action to control.
Have you pointed him to where it specifically says animal companions can be directed as a free action?

Frosty
2009-01-02, 09:37 PM
Have you pointed him to where it specifically says animal companions can be directed as a free action?

His houserules. Druids neednerfing, but this isn't the way I want to do it.