PDA

View Full Version : [4e] Weapon idea, balancing?



Suleman
2008-12-28, 10:05 AM
A friend of mine is having a steampunk-ish 4e game and has allowed some custom weaponry. My character will have a Winged Spear, which is basically a longspear with a tip that can be launched on a light chain.
My character is a fighter, so I guess it can be used to mark the opponent. My graps on the rules is not terribly good, so I'm not yet sure how marking functions.

This leads us to the real topic. I'm not terribly good with the rules, so I'm not sure how the winged spear should be implemented mechanically.

It is a superior weapon with melee damage equal to that of the longspear, with an additional ranged function.
I've been thinking that the tip attack would hit and damage and have roughly the same range as a throwing dagger.
Since the spear works as a ranged weapon, it means that the character can make a ranged attack without changing weapons. Should this be nerfed somehow, such as making it an encounter power and/or forcing my character to take it as a power that replaces one of his other fighter powers?
Alternatively, the loading and/or reloading of the weapon could take a move action, forcing the character to remain still before and/or after the shot.

Both I and the GM agree that it would be cool if the weapon could also function as a harpoon, allowing my character to shoot the tip at an opponent and then drag them closer to where I want them. Much like other fighter powers, but from a range.
How should this be implemented? I'm guessing a power would work best, but should it be inherent to the item or would my character need to take it instead of another fighter power? What level would it be? The game is level one to start with, so preferably not a high-level power.
There are also other powers that I've been considering.
1. A power for knocking the target prone and possibly sliding him a bit
2. A power that partially immoblizes the opponent by wrapping the chain around them, but can be stopped by a saving throw (or after a fixed duration) and requires my character to keep hold of the spear during the effect.
3. A melee power that enchances a strike by simultaneously launching the tip. There could be multiple variations of this.

I'm asking you to help me implement and balance this weapon so that it will neither be as cheesy as parmesan nor entirely sucky. I have to remind you, I'm not an experienced player and grasp on the rules is poor. The game will not be all combat, so the implementation doesn't need to be perfect. If you can help, please do.

EDIT: If this needs to be taken to the homebrew request thread, please tell me. I only just noticed it.

gman
2008-12-28, 10:57 AM
Ranged attack stats as a dagger wouldn't be overpowering I don't think, considering that you could always just draw a dagger with a minor and throw that anyway. (You get the extra benefit of being able to do this while using a heavy shield, but you should get something for spending a feat on weapon proficiency).

For the cooler things you want to do with it, yes, they should be powers. You have two options I think: 1 - Design new fighter powers. 2 - Make them daily magic item powers on an enchanted wingspear. I think 1 is probably better. It will be hard to get them exactly right first time, so be prepared to revise them after you see them in play. You could try re-working existing powers but lowering the number of [W] damage (probably only by 1) in exchange for having them work at range - this means your effects should be level appropriate.

And yes, a fighter does mark someone if they attack them with a ranged weapon. Think of it as making the attack at a key moment to distract them.

Suleman
2008-12-28, 11:02 AM
Ranged attack stats as a dagger wouldn't be overpowering I don't think, considering that you could always just draw a dagger with a minor and throw that anyway. (You get the extra benefit of being able to do this while using a heavy shield, but you should get something for spending a feat on weapon proficiency).

For the cooler things you want to do with it, yes, they should be powers. You have two options I think: 1 - Design new fighter powers. 2 - Make them daily magic item powers on an enchanted wingspear. I think 1 is probably better. It will be hard to get them exactly right first time, so be prepared to revise them after you see them in play. You could try re-working existing powers but lowering the number of [W] damage (probably only by 1) in exchange for having them work at range - this means your effects should be level appropriate.

And yes, a fighter does mark someone if they attack them with a ranged weapon. Think of it as making the attack at a key moment to distract them.
Using a heavy shield? I made this post with a longspear in mind, and longspears are two-handed weapons. Of course, I could make it based on a spear instead, but normal spears are, as far as I know, rather unimpressive weapons in 4e.

Here's an alpha version of the Harpoon Shot power, for pulling targets. Since I couldn't find a good example of a low-level power similar to it, I'm finding Harpoon Shot rather difficult to balance.
Harpoon Shot - Fighter Attack 1/2/3/5/6/7/9
You shoot the tip of your winged spear at your opponents, catching them with its barbed tip and the chain and then pulling them towards you with a mighty heave.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action * Winged Spear
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: Dex Modifier damage, and you pull the target a number of squares equal to your ?
Wisdom modifier? Strenght modifier/2? Strength modifier -1? 1 or two squares?

Since the damage for ranged winged spear attacks would be based on a thrown dagger, not a longspear, 1[W]+Dex modifier might be balanced as well. For now, though, it's better to keep it a bit weak rather than too powerful.

Mando Knight
2008-12-28, 12:58 PM
The Adventurer's Vault does have a "Winged Spear," which it calls a Tratnyr. It's a superior, versatile, heavy thrown spear that has a +2 proficiency bonus, d8 damage die, and 10/20 range (same as a javelin's range and proficiency bonus, but larger damage die and versatile). A magic thrown weapon (i.e. at least a +1 bonus) automatically returns to you at the end of the attack. You could flavor that as the tip being launched at the enemy, then retracting via a chain.

Currently, WotC has forgotten to create support for heavy thrown weapons. (unless the Heavy Thrown property applies to Ranger powers as well as to ranged basic attacks... which, according to the D&D Character Builder Beta, it doesn't...)

I think your best bet would be to ask your DM if you can reuse one of the ranged Ranger at-wills, and make it Strength based instead of Dexterity based... i.e. you take the Ranger's Careful Attack, change the line Dexterity +2 vs. AC (ranged) to Strength +2 vs. AC (ranged), and change the line under requirement "or a ranged weapon" to "or a heavy thrown ranged weapon."

Also, Lightning Lure (Swordmage At-Will). Change it from an implement attack vs Fort to a Weapon Attack vs AC, change the attack and damage abilities from Int to Strength, the damage from d6 to [W], and add the requirement "You must be wielding a Heavy Thrown weapon, and you must throw your weapon as a part of the attack."

Suleman
2008-12-28, 01:08 PM
The Adventurer's Vault does have a "Winged Spear," which it calls a Tratnyr. It's a superior, versatile, heavy thrown spear that has a +2 proficiency bonus, d8 damage die, and 10/20 range (same as a javelin's range and proficiency bonus, but larger damage die and versatile). A magic thrown weapon (i.e. at least a +1 bonus) automatically returns to you at the end of the attack. You could flavor that as the tip being launched at the enemy, then retracting via a chain.

Currently, WotC has forgotten to create support for heavy thrown weapons. (unless the Heavy Thrown property applies to Ranger powers as well as to ranged basic attacks... which, according to the D&D Character Builder Beta, it doesn't...)

I think your best bet would be to ask your DM if you can reuse one of the ranged Ranger at-wills, and make it Strength based instead of Dexterity based... i.e. you take the Ranger's Careful Attack, change the line Dexterity +2 vs. AC (ranged) to Strength +2 vs. AC (ranged), and change the line under requirement "or a ranged weapon" to "or a heavy thrown ranged weapon."
That would reflavor my winged spear from a battlefield control tool into a striker weapon thing, which is kind of besides the point. I'm thinking the powers I use with it would be more used for fighter stuff like inducing status conditions, pulling and sliding, knocking prone and such, instead of doing damage. The low damage output would be balanced by its high priority in hampering my character's opponents from various ranges.
Also, I'm highly skeptical of anything found in the Adventurer's Vault. The book re-introduced double weapons.
I posted an alpha version of the Harpoon Shot power in my previous post.

Here's a preliminary version of the weapon's stats.

Winged spear (melee)
Prof. +2 Damage: d10 Range: - Price: 25 gp Weight: 10 lb Group: Spear, Polearm, Winged spear Properties: Reach

Winged Spear (ranged)
Prof. +3 Damage: d4 Range: 5/10 Weight: 10 lb Group: Winged spear Properties: Light Thrown

I guess it could be based on crossbow-like weapons, too.
Winged Spear (ranged), alternate
Prof. +2 Damage: d6 Range: 10/20 Weight: 10 lb Group: Winged spear Properties: Load Minor

Bizarre
2008-12-28, 08:31 PM
Hello, all, the titular GM talking here.

I've decided on the range stat being identical to a thrown dagger, using Proficiency: Wingspears. The power will be an encounter Fighter power requiring wingspear proficiency, dealing 1[W]+Dex damage (that is, longspear damage + Dex) with Dex vs. AC at thrown dagger range, and on a hit allowing the opponent to be shifted toward you Wis spaces.

Suleman
2008-12-28, 08:40 PM
Hello, all, the titular GM talking here.

I've decided on the range stat being identical to a thrown dagger, using Proficiency: Wingspears. The power will be an encounter Fighter power requiring wingspear proficiency, dealing 1[W]+Dex damage (that is, longspear damage + Dex) with Dex vs. AC at thrown dagger range, and on a hit allowing the opponent to be shifted toward you Wis spaces.

Okay, that clears things up a bit. We'll see how balanced it is when we actually play, yes? There are, of course, the other things I thought about left to be done, but there's no hurry.