PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] What stat array/point buy do you play with?



Saph
2008-12-29, 09:07 AM
It's been a while since we've done one of these, so let's roll it out again. Sadly the poll function on GitP has long since gone the way of the dodo, so if we want a vote it has to be the old-fashioned way.

Using the categories at the start of the 3.5 DMG, which one of these does your group usually start with?

1. Low-powered - 22 point buy or less, or 3d6.

2. Standard - 25 to 28 point buy, or 4d6.

3. High-powered - 32 point buy, or 4d6 and roll several times, taking the best. (If you use 4d6 but are allowed to reroll a couple of times if you get scores you don't like, pick this category).

4. Very high-powered - 33-40 point buy, 5d6 ability generation, or anything equivalent.

5. Off the scale - 41+ point buy, or any method that generates that or more on average.

If you're not sure what the normal is for your group, take your current character, figure out what the point buy total for their stats would have been, and use that.

- Saph

Tormsskull
2008-12-29, 09:11 AM
Standard. If one character ends up rolling very poorly I'll usually boost them up to have stats comparable to the lowest roller.

only1doug
2008-12-29, 09:13 AM
standard: 28 points or 4d6 keep 3.

choose which you prefer and generate that way, if you roll low tough luck
(exception: extremely low rolls are allowed to restart character creation with 4d6 or 28 points, extremely low is defined as having a total stat bonus of +2 or less)

Dublock
2008-12-29, 09:13 AM
I do standard as well. If the players want to roll below the standard array, I'll let them use standard.

kamikasei
2008-12-29, 09:30 AM
Standard to high-powered both for my own games and in most PbP I've joined. I have been in games using higher (5d6b3), but not lower.

Telonius
2008-12-29, 09:42 AM
My preferred method is either "Very High Powered" or "Off the Scale," though I never bothered to do the math and check. These characters are supposed to be heroes, so I want the upper range of their abilities to be pretty high. (Difficulty of foes is adjusted accordingly, of course. :smallamused:)

One free 18.
Roll d8+10, five times. Reroll ones once. (If it comes up a one the second time, it was meant to be). Arrange the stats as you like.

(EDIT: Did the math, it's definitely Off the Scale.)

kalt
2008-12-29, 10:11 AM
Our DM does a 72 point buy. Each point of attribute equals 1 point. I guess it is an alright, but relatively bland system.

Curmudgeon
2008-12-29, 10:17 AM
32 point buy. It makes the players feel above-average. Of course, I use 32 point buy for their enemies, too. :smallsmile:

arguskos
2008-12-29, 10:35 AM
I use Standard or High-Powered dice rolls. I personally can't stand point-buy (no idea why, it just always makes me grind my teeth), so I always have players roll for their dice:

4d6, best 3. Reroll 1's. Roll three complete stat blocks, take your favorite.

Albonor
2008-12-29, 10:44 AM
currently 37 point-buy because the rolls were very high. When a player asked if he could point-buy instead of rolling, I calculated the rolls and the lowest was a 37....

Now any new character has 37pb

xPANCAKEx
2008-12-29, 10:58 AM
standard 4d6b3

i like the random chance and im not a munchkin out to powergame. I'll take the results as they roll and play round it. Sometimes disadvantages can be fun to play out... keeps you on your toes and keeps you thinking

Assassin89
2008-12-29, 11:01 AM
3d6 or 4d6, for 4d6 two sets.

valadil
2008-12-29, 11:05 AM
We usually go with anywhere between 28 and 34 point buy. Haven't used dice for stats in ages.

Eldariel
2008-12-29, 11:44 AM
Never dice. Players are supposed to start even. We've used everything from 25-60pb (yes, really). We use 32 and 28 mostly.

Telonius
2008-12-29, 11:58 AM
Players are supposed to start even.

I know I already answered, but I do think that this is an important point to consider regardless of what method you use. The players at the least ought to be aware of the consequences of the stat generation choice, and (ideally) be okay with those consequences.

With a very random stat generation, there is going to be the chance of one player being much more or less powerful than the others. If the players can handle this, great; if not, not so great. On the other hand, point buy gives you a sure thing that's statistically balanced - which can take away the thrill of victory of an excellent stat roll (along with the agony of defeat when those three ones come up), as well as potentially screwing MAD classes that might benefit from a lucky stat roll.

(My own method tries to split the difference, guaranteeing that all characters will get at least one thing that they're really good at).

Talya
2008-12-29, 12:14 PM
1. Low-powered - 22 point buy or less, or 3d6.

2. Standard - 25 to 28 point buy, or 4d6.

3. High-powered - 32 point buy, or 4d6 and roll several times, taking the best. (If you use 4d6 but are allowed to reroll a couple of times if you get scores you don't like, pick this category).

4. Very high-powered - 33-40 point buy, 5d6 ability generation, or anything equivalent.

5. Off the scale - 41+ point buy, or any method that generates that or more on average.


Never less than 36. 40 is average. One DM who's running a pair of campaigns goes "off the scale," with 45 (SW Saga) and 50 (3.5). The 50 is a bit much for my liking. Saga at 45 is okay, we're all jedi (who have monk-like MAD.)

valadil
2008-12-29, 12:23 PM
Forgot to mention earlier, but the strangest method we ever used was pick your own stats. Everybody just wrote down the stats that they thought best represented the character they wanted to play. It kinda worked because nobody wanted to be the guy asking for too much. I still don't know why the cleric opted for a 15 wisdom though. He also took skill focus diplomacy without putting in any skill ranks. He wasn't a very good cleric. Or diplomat.

Eloel
2008-12-29, 12:25 PM
Last game I'm DMing is using 24d6 reroll 1s, drop lowest 6, do the whole process over again if the total of 18 dice you have is lower than 80, then create abilities in-order. so a roll of 6-6-6-5-5-4-3-6-5... would generate a score of 18-14-14... which could then be assigned to any ability that pleases the player. Sure, it needs some math, but it gives constant high-scores with enough diversity. I'd maybe say it's very high-powered, but they're level 7 characters going into a level 9 dungeon (tomb of horrors), they need it :p

Moriato
2008-12-29, 01:06 PM
Usually 4d6 keep the best three, reroll ones.

Satyr
2008-12-29, 01:09 PM
Generally speaking, I normally prefer higher ability score instead of the common inflation of magical items; It's much preferable to have high stats from the very beginning and avoid the standardised ability boosters than the other way round.

Erom
2008-12-29, 01:16 PM
Standard 28 pb most of the time, but often (about 40% of the time) 24 pb.

Xefas
2008-12-29, 01:19 PM
I haven't used die rolls for this or hit points since 2nd edition. We usually go for 30 or 32 points. Everyone is happy and no one feels shafted because they no longer have to choose where to put their 3-6 score (Do I want my character concept + ridiculous frailty, bumbling clumsiness, crippling sickness, drooling stupidity, mind-boggling naivety, or wrist-slitting social ineptitude? Hmmm...tough choice. Maybe we'll just use point buy and play the characters we want to play.)

Roog
2008-12-29, 01:21 PM
In my current game, players have the choice of stat gen using cards or taking the elite array.

The card method is
- take 3-8 of clubs & 4-9 of hearts and shuffel them together
- deal the cards into six sets of two
- add up the value of each set and assign that to a stat
this gives a total number of stat points equal to that of the elite array

Both methods are approximatly equivalent to 25 point buy.
(the card method may give a slightly higher point buy total, but it also gives less choice to the player)

KevLar
2008-12-29, 01:21 PM
Mostly High-Powered.
But often Standard, too.

It's been quite a while since we went lower. As for very high-powered, when we do this, it means one of two things: either it's indeed a high-powered campaign for super-heroes OR the Nerf Bat is hovering over every caster's and powergamer's head: lots of houserules, lots of banned material, low magic settings etc.

Tokiko Mima
2008-12-29, 01:21 PM
I'm in love with the concept of 3d6 six times, arranging scores as necessary. The only adjustment is that you get to treat your lowest die result of the three as though it was a 6.

It's simple, elegant, and it produces results from the playable range of 8 to 18 without making the extreme's too common. Point buy is also fun, but the amount varies depending on the needs of the campaign.

Epinephrine
2008-12-29, 01:24 PM
We tend to pretty high point values - in the Very High powered range, but we've been doing gestalt, so there's a lot of MAD.

One campaign was done by having everyone roll their stats on 4d6, taking best three - and then looking at the point buy for it. Those below the highest point buy could add to their stats to get an equivalent point buy.

Another was a 36 point buy. Pretty big.

The last was a set of stats. Everybody got an 18,16,14,12,10, and 8 to distribute. Makes certain that you have one weak stat, one really strong stat, and some stuff in the middle.

Brogen
2008-12-29, 01:25 PM
The closest to what we do is Very High Powered
The average ends up being 37 point buy, but that's because we combine dice rolling with point buy to generate characters. Everyone rolls 4d6, rerolling 1's and 2's, and then add the total to 20, and that's how many points they get to generate their character.

Matthew
2008-12-29, 01:47 PM
Standard or Elite Array.

John Campbell
2008-12-29, 02:11 PM
The game I'm currently playing in uses sum-to-85, which is ridiculous, because the original DM (who has since handed the campaign over to someone else, who is however still using that generation method for new PCs to be fair to everybody) made the fairly common mistake of conflating "being a hero" with "having ridiculous stats".

My last character in that game worked out to, IIRC, 54 point buy. My current one isn't as bad, because he's above-average to good in everything - most of his stats are 14-16, and he has nothing higher than 16 - rather than being good to awesome in two-thirds of his stats and poor to average in the other couple, but he still works out in the lower 40s point-buy, I think.

Telonius
2008-12-29, 02:29 PM
I'm pretty sure that 85 point buy 1 to 1 could get you, at most, a 56 point buy using the standard (three 18s, a 15, and two 8s), and a 38 point buy at minimum (five 14s and a 15). Splitting the difference there, you're working at about a 47 point buy under that system.

Or, if you're using 3 as the minimum, upper range is 61 (four 18s, a 10, and a 3), for an average of 49.5 (call it 50) point buy.

horseboy
2008-12-29, 02:31 PM
Well, when I first started I used 3d6, reroll lowest, put 'em where you want 'em.
Then in 1st edition switched to 3d6, reroll 1,2 & 3's. That started taking too long when 2nd came out, so I switched to d20, reroll single digits. 19 was 18 with a +1 you could apply to another stat. 3rd, I've done one 28 and one 32. When I'm running Earthdawn, I use their standard 66 points, which my standard t'skrang array comes out to 31 points.

Blackfang108
2008-12-29, 02:47 PM
We use #3.

4d6, with the option to re-roll once, but the DM rolls it and if it's worse, you're stuck.

I only reroll anything below 10.

We are allowed to use the Elite Array as well, however.

Bassikpoet
2008-12-29, 02:59 PM
Elite Array. The numbers are set but you get to choose where they go.

Slightly above average people can do heroic things.

Tempest Fennac
2008-12-29, 03:08 PM
I allow a choice between 4d6 drop lowest once or 32 PB (I allow the use of PB if the player doesn't like their stats if they roll).

pcamp88
2008-12-29, 04:35 PM
What I like to do is just give every stat a six as a base, then have everyone roll 3d6 and add the best two of each roll to the corresponding stat. Essentially it just gives them a free six on one die.

Eldariel
2008-12-29, 04:57 PM
With a very random stat generation, there is going to be the chance of one player being much more or less powerful than the others. If the players can handle this, great; if not, not so great. On the other hand, point buy gives you a sure thing that's statistically balanced - which can take away the thrill of victory of an excellent stat roll (along with the agony of defeat when those three ones come up), as well as potentially screwing MAD classes that might benefit from a lucky stat roll.

My personal experience is that the thrill of great rolls should be saved for in-game; poor rolls shouldn't gimp your character for the rest of the game.

Anyways, for those who roll, one great alternative (I picked it up from I-can't-remember-where; may have been these very boards, or Brilliant Gameologists) is having everyone roll their stats; then have all players choose their stats from everyone's rolls. That's balanced, and yet has the random chances and unless someone rolls a completely busted set (you can just ask 'em to reroll if there're 6 18s), it tends to lead to a variety of sets being used for the more and less MAD characters, and players more worried about not dumping anything vs. being cool with 6 Str.

BillyJimBoBob
2008-12-29, 05:11 PM
Of three GMs:

AD&D : 1 - 3D6, arrange freely
3.5 : 3 - 4D6 drop lowest die 7 times, drop lowest score and assign freely, and may ask the GM to roll 4d6 behind his screen and replace any or all of your assigned stats with his roll
4e (me) : 2 - 28 point buy

I have grown to dislike rolling for stats greatly. As an example, in the 3.5 game my character has the following stats: 18, 17, 16, 14, 14, 12. I had a 10 (IIRC) which was replaced by the GMs 12. There is another player in the game whose stats I beat in every category. Even though this imbalance is in my favor I would greatly prefer to be playing on a level playing field.

AslanCross
2008-12-29, 06:11 PM
We typically roll 5d6 drop 2. (3.5) Less likely to get screwed, more likely to get at least two exceptional and two good stats. Even if you end up with a negative, you'll still be good at what you do.

Eldariel's communal roll pool sounds like a very interesting idea, though.

Arcane_Snowman
2008-12-29, 06:21 PM
I play using a stat generation called 27-25-23:
You roll three sets of 4d6 removing the lowest dice from each, you then subtract the first set from 27, giving you two stats (the rolled result and what you have after subtracting it from twenty seven), then repeat the process for 25 and 23.
It random, but not completely so.

Cybren
2008-12-29, 06:24 PM
Write down your stat order for what you're rolling.
Start with 4d6. Roll. Every time you roll a "1" on a die, add another die to your set. Every time you roll a 6, remove a die from your set.
Now the next stat you roll could be more or less.

You have one free "10" and one free "8" to put somewhere if you happen to run out of dice. You restart with 3d6 if that happens.

spamoo
2008-12-29, 06:31 PM
My group's method would probably fall between standard and high-powered.
We roll 4d6 and take the highest three while re-rolling 1s. In addition, you take your highest stat and make it an 18 (just to make sure that everyone has one). It is actually very interesting to see how these higher stats work as we have powergamers, RPers, and newbies in just about every game that we play.

tyckspoon
2008-12-29, 06:45 PM
Well, when I first started I used 3d6, reroll lowest, put 'em where you want 'em.
Then in 1st edition switched to 3d6, reroll 1,2 & 3's. That started taking too long when 2nd came out, so I switched to d20, reroll single digits. 19 was 18 with a +1 you could apply to another stat. 3rd, I've done one 28 and one 32. When I'm running Earthdawn, I use their standard 66 points, which my standard t'skrang array comes out to 31 points.

.. rerolling half the die took too long? Old secret for cutting a d6 in half: the d3. Since you're ignoring half of it, 1-2=4, 3-4=5, 5-6=6. No rerolls at all necessary (although ignoring the lower half of all possible results seems like it's not really in the spirit of 1/2e D&D.)

SoD
2008-12-29, 06:56 PM
I make my group roll 4d6 and take the best three. Standard rolling for stats. If it's too awful, I allow a reroll. If it's too brilliant, good for them (I don't punish my players for rolling well). However, even though we use normal rolling for stats, somehow, there's this one player who always has at least one 18...

Remmirath
2008-12-29, 07:18 PM
Standard. 4d6, drop the lowest.

That's for when we do low-level games, though. When we start out at epic level, we say that everybody has to have had at least a seventeen in their main stats, else they would probably have died off before achieving their current level (when I say 'starting epic' it usually means 'starting around 40th').

I never use point buy. I can't stand point buy.

horseboy
2008-12-29, 07:39 PM
(although ignoring the lower half of all possible results seems like it's not really in the spirit of 1/2e D&D.)
Bah, that's just your nostalgia kicking in. Heck, back then I had to fend off from my tables Hengyokai Firbolgs. No, not a half breed, the guy wanted to turn into a firbolg as his "animal" form. As long as there's been games, there have been munchkins.

Caeldrim
2008-12-29, 07:43 PM
i have a few different techniques i like.

for a game where all the players are present for the first session i like to get everyone to do a 4d6 array, but i'll get them to reroll any 1's. then all the numbers go into one big pool.

Then, starting with whoever rolled the highest figure, we work round the table, dealing out the numbers from the top down. tends to give everyone a 'reasonable but organic' 4d6 type array.

i'm also a great advocate of the old 'roll 3 arrays with 4d6 then pick your favourite'.

i've always wanted to play a game with 'honest numbers'. 3d6, rolled in order, no exceptions. i'd probably allow two players who wanted to trade sets to swap, to aid class selection, but i really want to see a player or two forced to work with a 3's or 4s. :)

RTGoodman
2008-12-29, 07:53 PM
Anyways, for those who roll, one great alternative (I picked it up from I-can't-remember-where; may have been these very boards, or Brilliant Gameologists) is having everyone roll their stats; then have all players choose their stats from everyone's rolls. That's balanced, and yet has the random chances and unless someone rolls a completely busted set (you can just ask 'em to reroll if there're 6 18s), it tends to lead to a variety of sets being used for the more and less MAD characters, and players more worried about not dumping anything vs. being cool with 6 Str.

I don't know if you heard it from me, but I've mentioned using that a few times. I like it because there's still the randomness of dice rolls, which can lead to both some high and some low rolls, but it makes everyone equal.


Personally, I use almost exclusively your High Powered array. If I do point-buy, it's 32 points. If we roll, everyone rolls 4d6 drop lowest, occasionally allowing one extra roll of 4d6 or maybe re-roll ones. Also, I use the above-mentioned party-wide rolling method, where each player just rolls 4d6 drop lowest, and then when all the players are done they have to vote for one of the 4 arrays presented.


i've always wanted to play a game with 'honest numbers'. 3d6, rolled in order, no exceptions. i'd probably allow two players who wanted to trade sets to swap, to aid class selection, but i really want to see a player or two forced to work with a 3's or 4s. :)

One DM I had made me do that for my replacement character when my original died. Everyone else had something like the equivalent to 32-34 PB. :smallannoyed: I still managed to get a 17 Wis, so I just went Dwarf Druid (for that 14 Con) and had fun until the game ended 2 sessions later.

Egiam
2008-12-29, 07:57 PM
I always use 25 point buy method. It's done the trick in my group.

monty
2008-12-29, 07:59 PM
28 point buy or 4d6, rerolling on particularly bad rolls. In the most recent game, I rolled a net +1 on my stats (one 16 and a bunch of crap), then a 0 (even worse), then another 1. Then the DM let me switch to point buy.

BladeOFGrass
2008-12-29, 08:13 PM
I usually let my players choose fair and balanced stats for their character. When I first did it, I didn't think that they would be able to keep their characters fair, but it's worked well. I've only had one conflict with a person who said having four eighteens and a charisma of three was fair and balanced...

On the games, we do roll in, I usually do 18d6, pick three dice for each stat, only one eighteen. It's fun and it usually balances out.

Myou
2008-12-29, 08:38 PM
We're using 'off the scale'.

We get a total of 92 points to allocate, and no stat can have less than 8 or more than 18 before racial adjustments.

My wizard's starting with 10/18/18/18/18/10.
Adding in my racial adjustments (homebrewed race) and a con bonus for having a toad familiar I get 6/20/20/22/18/10.

My ranger's starting with 18/18/16/16/14/10.
Adding in his racial adjustments (elf) he gets: 18/20/14/16/14/10.

We've yet to start, but knowing the DM, I'm expecting to really need those scores.

Talya
2008-12-29, 08:42 PM
We're using 'off the scale'.

We get a total of 92 points to allocate, and no stat can have less than 8 or more than 18 before racial adjustments.


92 point buy will get you 18/18/18/18/18/16 with two unusable points left over.

Eldariel
2008-12-29, 08:45 PM
92 point buy will get you 18/18/18/18/18/16 with two unusable points left over.

He's talking about allocation. So all stats start at 0 and every increase costs 1 point. Gets you an average of 15 1/3rd.

Samakain
2008-12-29, 09:07 PM
We used a modifier based system for 3.5

DM gives us either +8,+10 or +12, and as long as the modifiers for our abilities adds up to that pre-racial we are sweet.

when i played 1st we did the roll 3 4d6 arrays and choose 1.

*EDIT* actually these are the only 2 systems i've ever used, someone wanna fill me in on the process of a point by i'd be thankful. and on a second note regarding the first system mentioned here is the downfall of having all by one character with a charisma of 3-4 :P every, damned, time.

Myou
2008-12-29, 09:24 PM
92 point buy will get you 18/18/18/18/18/16 with two unusable points left over.


He's talking about allocation. So all stats start at 0 and every increase costs 1 point. Gets you an average of 15 1/3rd.

As Eldariel said, I didn't say it was the point-buy system. That would just be silly. xD

Who_Da_Halfling
2008-12-29, 09:32 PM
My players used standard roll. I used 32-point buy for the NPC allies who are meant to be close to the PCs levels, elite array for several who are only meant to peripherally interact with the PCs, and I haven't designed the BBEG's stats yet, nor the stats for the elite NPCs who are at army-commander level, but I expect I will probably just assign them stats since I want the BBEG to be pretty good, but not at everything necessarily.

I used standard stats for all the monsters they've fought, so I haven't done anything with that yet, although I expect elite array for the major villain (not BBEG) NPCs.

-JM

only1doug
2008-12-30, 06:08 AM
I usually let my players choose fair and balanced stats for their character. When I first did it, I didn't think that they would be able to keep their characters fair, but it's worked well. I've only had one conflict with a person who said having four eighteens and a charisma of three was fair and balanced...

On the games, we do roll in, I usually do 18d6, pick three dice for each stat, only one eighteen. It's fun and it usually balances out.

I had a wizard character with 3 charisma once... but that generation system was 4d6 keep 3 (1,1,1,2) "heck, i'll discard the 2, it's funnier".

He was entertaining to play, Loved helping the party out, "you'r being attacked? I'll just fireball that enemy off of you!"
In later levels he started becoming a fire elemental, and the entire party had either high fire resistance or improved evasion (or both).