old WoD players survey

[tcrudisi]

I was perusing a thread by Fordthefin found at this link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100804

I came upon a curiousity. I know a lot of us (myself included) said that we preferred old WoD to the new version for various reasons. Felirc brought up a point that it's much easier to find new WoD games than old ones. It caused me to start wondering why.

So here's my question: How many of us who have played old WoD still play the new WoD on a consistent basis? Or did your playing new WoD drop off dramatically because you didn't like it as much as the old?

Personally, when the new WoD came out, I went from a hardcore old WoD player to purchasing the main book in the new edition, saying, "This is crap" and I have not since played WoD.

[horseboy]

I was never a big fan of oWoD, but I was willing to play it when I was too tired to run something. Since nWoD it's never even come up in conversation.

[Severus]

I played a lot of old WoD, and then drifted away. It was mostly because the worlds felt 'done' after a serious campaign there.

with D&D, there isn't a world for a serious GM, just a set of tools to build a world, so each campaign is different.

WoD system stinks in ways that the latrine of an entire Orc army cannot begin to stink. They are the major god of system stinkage.

So once you've enjoyed the good part of WoD, the brilliant and cool world idea, why would you want to touch the system again with a 10' pole attached to a 50' extension piece while wearing a full biohazard suit?

Maybe it's just my background as a long term gamer, but system matters to me. System is a negotiated common understanding of what is possible, and how possible it is. When the system is very poorly done, players and GMs don't have agreement on what can be done and how easily, or you have stupid rule crocks that make one action vastly superior and the world diminishes until the GM starts applying bandaids and workarounds.

If the system were solid, you could start extending, messing, and retweaking and get a new cool game experience. If it's a sloppily done system, you are better of starting from a different base.

That's my .02 worth anyway.

Now, having ranted about the failings of WoD on system, I also do not like the newer materials. I think great games are like great novels. You have one visionary author, and you're along for the ride, and playing your part. I think later WoD materials became 'netbook' style. Too many authors/hands to have the clarity of great material.

There. I guess that's .04 now.

[lisiecki]

In the beginning, I perfered Requiem over Masquerade.
I really did.
They got rid of alot of the "silly"
Ninja Muslims
Kookie Insane people

However the last several books have seemed like there trying to put more and more OWoD in to the NWoD

Including two factions of malcavians ...

[NeoVid]

I got into RPGs with oWoD. Since nWoD came out I've hardly looked back.

Even the hardest core oWoD players rarely dispute that the mechanics are way better now, and even though the setting isn't quite as cool as the old days (but it's close by now), it's ten times easier to actually work with.

I've been consistently surprised by how much I've preferred the current versions of the games to the old ones. Then again, I'm the only gamer I've ever heard of who usually prefers new revisions of games.

[comicshorse]

Stil playing OWoD. Partially because it has much the better background and partially because having spent a load of money on OWoD books I'm damned if I'm going to buy a whole new load of books

[RagnaroksChosen]

I don't touch Nwod cept when playing mage cuz i liek the newer one... every thing else including using the WOD system i use oWOD books cuz i like the way it flows better plus my group all knows the system very well and we know what breaks it and what doesn't....

I don't recomend Gm's run the system if they don't understand objective balancing with our favoring one element or another. Cuz if you do it breaks the system... Or any player/gm that likes to have every one (not players) on the same page. We all like the fact that a were-wolf can tare apart a vamp any day of the week even if we are playing vampire... makes things more interesting.

[Noneoyabizzness]

stopped playing owod a short while before the end. fell in too muc d20. nwod is easier to find because of one major issue: they stopped publishing owod. new players drawn in will buy what is available, and it isnt changeling the dreaming or wraith. or demon the fallen (fun times).

oddly enough thoguh when nwod came out and we felt nostalgic for d10 system, we broke out abberant.

[Semidi]

I was a big fan of oWoD and hated nWoD until I started playing the new Vampire and Changeling, and I warmed up to nWoD. But I'm going to play a game of oWoD later this year so I can break out my Sabbat goodness (Seven and the Brood of Belial don't quite measure up to the Sabbat). Though I haven't even played werewolf because the new one sucks that hard compared to the old.

My biggest complaints with the new one is the lack of a good antagonist for vampire and removal of awesome clans who could do things like Flesh Craft. I also don't like the way Diablerie is, it's just not worth it compared to the way the generation system was set up. There's no point to it aside from saving some XP on disciplines and blood potency, and every mekhet worth his 4+ BP can tell on a level 2 auspex roll.

But that's about it...

[Satyr]

While I have my problems with the oWoD, it's distance in quality to the newer ripoff version can only be measured in astronomic units. Not only is the new version a particularly uninspired copy of the original ones, it is also a much shallower version of it, replacing the multitude of factions, ideaologies and deep mystical background with uninteresting stereotypes (just compare the original Brujah, a clan of fallen noblesse, and the ripoff Bruja, who have a completely uninspired name and are reduced to the role of vampire biker brutes).

The rules are crap (yes, they are faster, but thanks to the idiotic idea of passive idea the suspense of combats is actively sabotaged); the background is a shadow of the former world at best, and an embaracingly hidebound repetition of the original at worst.

Right now, I am playing a Werewolf: Apocalypse Dark Ages campaign with a background based on Arthurian myth, the Fall of the White Howlers, the Conflict between the Fianna and the Fenrir and the last remnants of the War of Rage. So far, it is distilled greatness.

[graymachine]

I'm a solid oWoD fan. I've been in a few nWoD games, as well as a Requiem LARP, and they just don't compare to oWoD. The biggest problem I see is that the background in nWoD is terrible, poorly developed, and bland.

People have mentioned that the new system is better build, which I don't disagree with, but I would say that it is part of the problem. In nWoD it doesn't matter if you are playing a mage, a vampire, a werewolf, or whatever; they're all the same thing with different coatings of paint. There is no sensation of mechanical difference, which is compounded by the fact the Breed/Faction combo is the same for each group.

I will say, though, after reading through Monte Cook's WoD a couple of times that I really like it. I don't really think of it as being either nWoD or oWod; it's more of a stand-alone game that has elements in it from WoD. It has a great horror/suspense/weirdness aspect to it that is reminiscent of Call of Cthulhu.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

[Friv]

I was a oWoD player for about ten years, and had a good time with it, but the system was kind of kludgy and there were a lot of setting things I didn't like.

These days, I'm running Changeling: The Lost games and having a grand time. (But then, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks that Changeling: The Dreaming was a superior game to Changeling: The Lost.)

[RagnaroksChosen]

I was a oWoD player for about ten years, and had a good time with it, but the system was kind of kludgy and there were a lot of setting things I didn't like.

These days, I'm running Changeling: The Lost games and having a grand time. (But then, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks that Changeling: The Dreaming was a superior game to Changeling: The Lost.)

Which the dreaming are you talkign about ones with cards or with out?

[Xanos]

I've been playing in several oWoD campaigns for the last 3 years. If someone mentions Requim, it's a buck to the swear jar.
Have had several campaigns start and die, but we never considered switching. Our group consists of about 15 players total, and games usually have the ST and 3-6 players.

[NeoVid]

Oh yeah, one point I usually bring up when this subject comes up: the best nWoD game didn't exist in oWoD.


The biggest problem I see is that the background in nWoD is terrible, poorly developed, and bland.


How many oWoD sourcebooks have you read vs how many nWoD?

I've seriously started to wonder about that when anyone says that the current setting isn't as good as the old.

[Aron Times]

I played the Old World of Darkness a lot, particularly Vampire. The only stuff I know about the New WoD comes from the preview articles on White Wolf's website.

I haven't played the New WoD yet, but I liked what I saw. Combat was very tedious in the old version, with one insignificant fight taking hours to resolve. Also, it was horribly unbalanced - a starting werewolf or mage can easily take out a starting vampire. Even more powerful vampires had to deal with Humanity loss if they tried to defend themselves.

Also, I'm not a big fan of Dementation (my favorite clan was Malkavian). Dominate is so much better for "enlightening" people in the hands (or should I say "eyes") of a creative vampire. Dominate is also much better for defending yourself than Dementation. Voice of Madness is awesome, but only if you don't care about Humanity loss or friendly fire.

[Curmudgeon]

I played the old WoD, but actually lost interest in it when they changed the rules from 1st edition Mage: The Ascension (WW4000) to 2nd edition (WW4300). That pretty much ruined the equality among the different spheres and made Forces Mages the superior option for most everything, Spirit Mages just niche players, and Entropy Mages part of the scenery. :smallannoyed:

So I just never had an interest in picking up new WoD.

[FatR]

I still run oWoD from time to time (and play it through PbP). No interest in nWoD (It is not even worth hating anymore, from my viewpoint). Some players I know have experimented with nWoD briefly for a time, but these games were short-lived.

[FatR]

How many oWoD sourcebooks have you read vs how many nWoD?

I've seriously started to wonder about that when anyone says that the current setting isn't as good as the old.
About 70% of them vs all of them but one, respectively, for the game line I like most (Werewolf). Less for other lines (this goes both for oWoD and nWoD books). So, be assured, that when I say, that, as far as I care, nWoD blows I have enough information for a fair comparison.

[Darth Stabber]

Nwod is a mechanical simplification more than improvement. And so much of the niftity fluff has been reformed into this hackish 1 dimensional crap. Vampire (and demon as well) a try to keep from being offensive by removing all the religious symbology. Vampires, oh random illness, instead of carrying of carrying the blood debt of Caine. Which is cooler. Werewolf...... FAIL, Take all the nicely set up intertribal, interchangeing breed relationships and get rid of anything good about it and set up a paper thin bit about the pure pack and that kind of bull spit, I'll pass. I like the fact that they unified the system, but the new system is less cool than any of the predecessors. Why did they take away the gm setting difficulties. So many issues, No thanks white wolf.

[Kiero]

Frankly I didn't think much of the oWoD apart from Mage: the Ascension. I left that and WoD for good after Revised and haven't looked back.

[Zeta Kai]

I played OWOD back in the day, & I just picked an old copy of M:tA, but I never had time or money to give NWOD a chance. I hear that the new mechanics are unified, streamlined, & vastly improved, but the fluff is a mixed bag at best.

What's the difference between WW's WOD & Monte Cook's WOD?

[FatR]

These days, I'm running Changeling: The Lost games and having a grand time. (But then, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks that Changeling: The Dreaming was a superior game to Changeling: The Lost.)
Well, hardly, because I'm right here:smalltongue:. C:tL is yet another derivative of V:tM. And I already have my V:tM for "woe is me" games.

[Kantur]

I played OWOD back in the day, & I just picked an old copy of M:tA, but I never had time or money to give NWOD a chance. I hear that the new mechanics are unified, streamlined, & vastly improved, but the fluff is a mixed bag at best.

What's the difference between WW's WOD & Monte Cook's WOD?


Monte Cook's is d20 based is the main one. Along with Vampires, Werewolves and Mages being able to form a party with no problems at all, if I remember right.

[Friv]

Which the dreaming are you talkign about ones with cards or with out?

*puts fingers in ears* Lalalalala they never did that no cards dice lalalala*

;)


Well, hardly, because I'm right here:smalltongue:. C:tL is yet another derivative of V:tM. And I already have my V:tM for "woe is me" games.

:smallconfused:

Lost is like VtM? I don't mean to sound rude or nothing, but I honestly can't think of a single point on which they have similar themes. Masquerade is about becoming a monster and losing yourself to a monstrous beast that lies inside you, while your impossibly ancient betters manuver you around like a pawn on a chessboard and everyone betrays you for fun and profit. Lost is about finding a balance between madness and sanity, having been kidnapped by an impossibly powerful being and then beating them, while the people around you try to find their own balances and sometimes fail, and the old demigod you shamed tries vaguely to get revenge if he can remember that you're gone.

[FatR]

Lost is like VtM? I don't mean to sound rude or nothing, but I honestly can't think of a single point on which they have similar themes. Masquerade is about becoming a monster and losing yourself to a monstrous beast that lies inside you, while your impossibly ancient betters manuver you around like a pawn on a chessboard and everyone betrays you for fun and profit.

Lost is about finding a balance between madness and sanity,
I.e. "about becoming a monster and losing yourself". The only balance is metagaming balance of "at which point of the scale mechanical penalties outweight benefits of low-morality-stat behavior?" And guess what, it is the same deal in V:tM. Particular ways in which the game sodomizes your character for being non-human outcast and doing things, necessary to survive in it, might be different, but the core idea remains the same.


having been kidnapped by an impossibly powerful being and then beating them,
Except that's what they want you to think, while maneuvering you around like a pawn on a chessboard. Also, they are your future, just like elders in V:TM.


while the people around you try to find their own balances and sometimes fail,
While betraying you for fun and profit.

[Friv]

You play Lost a lot differently than I do.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread - if you're interested, we can make a "Lost vs Masquerade" thread to discuss this, or we can leave it be. I'll leave the choice to you - I'm certainly interested enough, but you may not be. ;)

[Accersitus]

In the group I am in we prefer oWOD to nWOD, and funnily enough we prefer D&D3.5 to D&D4.0 I think this is just because we have home brewed the old versions of both D&D and WOD to a form we like, and thus the new versions are not popular since we are happy with how things worked before.

[Oracle_Hunter]

oWoD Player - Werewolf, Mage, Vampire

I've been reading over the nWoD stuff and, to be honest, they improved a lot of things. The more I read, the more I like the mechanical changes but... I just can't bring myself to like the setting changes. Mage, in particular, seems to have been over mechanized; whereas it used to be an outlier in the WoD universe (because it was Ars Magica :smalltongue:) now it just seems like a clunky attempt to have "Mage" in the tighter rules universe of nWoD.

I want to like nWoD, I really do. But it just doesn't get me yet.

[Kurald Galain]

So here's my question: How many of us who have played old WoD still play the new WoD on a consistent basis? Or did your playing new WoD drop off dramatically because you didn't like it as much as the old?
Neither, actually. Me and my friends own a large number of oWoD books; whenever a nWoD book comes out, we check it out and so far consider none of them sufficient improvement to buy them.

We still play oWoD roughly the same amount as we used to.

See, nWoD is indeed better for new people to get into. But for many people who's invested substantial time into getting to know the oWoD, it's a disappointment.

[Kerouac]

I played M:tA for awhile several years ago and liked it a lot. I always wanted to get a W:tA game going or a V:tDA campain, but none of my friends were really into that. I buy a lot of oWoD stuff at local used book stores because the back story and content is amazing. You can almost just read them as a book and generate all kinds of ideas... I sometimes take material and apply it to my D&D campaigns just because it's THAT good.

Also, I tend to buy my copies from my local Half Price Books as they have a lot of material that people are trading in.