Shinigami Simplified

[kyoten]

Shinigami

Hit Die: d8

Class Skills
The Shinigami’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentrate (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (the Planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Shinigami
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Spirit Weapon|-|-|-|-|-|

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Detect Undead|-|-|-|-|-|

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Spiritual Empathy|-|-|-|-|-|

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Spells|3|0|-|-|-|

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Combat Sense +2|3|1|-|-|-|

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5||3|2|0|-|-|

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Spirit Weapon Lvl 2|3|3|1|-|-|

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+6|
+6||3|3|2|0|-|

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+6|
+6|Undead Slayer|3|3|2|1|-|

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+7|
+7|Soul Burial|3|3|3|2|-|

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+7|
+7|Combat Sense +3|3|3|3|2|0|

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+8|Evasion|3|3|3|3|1|

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+8||3|3|3|3|2|

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+9|
+9|Spirit Weapon lvl 3|3|3|3|3|2|

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+9|
+9|Incorporeal 1/day|4|3|3|3|3|

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10||4|3|3|3|3|

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10|Combat Sense +4|4|4|3|3|3|

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+11|Improved Evasion|4|4|4|3|3|

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11|Incorporeal 2/day|4|4|4|4|3|

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+12||4|4|4|4|4|[/table]

0 Level Spells
Acid Splash
Cure Minor Wounds
Dancing lights
Disrupt Undead
Flare
Ghost Sound
Light
Ray of Frost
Virtue

1st Level Spells
Burning Hands
Charm Person
Chill Touch
Detect Evil
Expeditious Retreat (regular & swift / Swift- Cast Time. swift action, Duration. 1 round)
Jump
Know Direction
Protection from Evil
Remove Fear
Shocking Grasp

2nd Level Spells
Bull’s Strength
Calm Emotions
Cat’s Grace
Command Undead
Cure Moderate Wounds
Detect Thoughts
Gust of Wind
Locate Object
Melf’s Acid Arrow
Rage
Scorching Ray
Spider Climb
Tongues

3rd Level Spells
Charm Monster
Clairvoyance/Clairaudience
Cure Serious Wounds
Daylight
Fireball
Lightning bolt
Haste
Keen Edge
Slow
Magic Circle against Evil
Remove Curse
Wind wall
Halt Undead

4th Level Spells
Cure Critical Wounds
Death Ward
Dimensional Anchor
Dimensional Door
Dismissal
Dispel Evil
Locate Creature
Neutralize Poison
Restoration
Wall of Fire
Wall of Ice

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Shinigami.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Shinigami is proficient with all simple weapons and one weapon of choice and light armor.

Spirit Weapon: At 1st level any weapon that is wielded by a Shinigami is treated as having the Ghost Touch Property.

At 7th level a Shinigami must choose a weapon to bond with. Upon bonding the Shinigami may imbue this weapon with any weapon enhancements totaling a +2 bonus. This is in addition to the Ghost Touch property.

At 14th level a Shinigami’s bond with his/her weapon allows the weapon to gain additional enhancements totaling +3. This is in addition to the previous enhancements.

Spiritual Empathy: The shinigami can use body language, calming chants, and demeanor to improve the attitude of an undead or creature with the Spirit subtype with an Intelligence score. This ability functions similar to a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The shinigami rolls 1d20 and adds his shinigami level and his Charisma bonus opposed against the target's Will save to determine the spiritual empathy check result. If the shinigami beats the target by 5 or more, the target's attitude improves one step. If the shinigami beats the target by 15 or more, the target's attitude improves two steps. If the shinigami beats the target by 30 or more, the target's attitude improves three steps. The typical undead creature has a starting attitude of unfriendly or hostile, while Spirit creatures are usually indifferent.

To use spiritual empathy, the shinigami and the target creature must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing the target creature in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. While using spiritual empathy, the target creature is entranced with the shinigami and does nothing except stare at him, but any hostile action on the part of the shinigami or his allies breaks this trance.

Note that, in the case of undead such as a bodak, this might not be a particularly wise move.

Combat Sense (Ex): A Shinigami may designate a single opponent in combat. Against that opponent, the Shinigami gains a +2 insight bonus to AC and attack rolls. At 11th level this bonus increases to +3. At 17th level this bonus increases to +4.

Soul Burial (Su): Soul Burial (Su): A Shinigami who is adjacent to an undead or a creature with the Spirit subtype may attempt, as a full-round action, to release the spirit to the heavens. The Shinigami must make a diplomacy check against a DC equal to 10 + the creature's HD + the creature's Wisdom modifier. Hostile creatures receive a +8 bonus on this check, unfriendly creatures receive a +4 bonus on this check, and indifferent creatures receive a +2 bonus on this check. Mindless undead do not get this check; they are simply destroyed, their spirit released to the heavens.

An undead destroyed in this manner can be raised as though it were never undead, provided the spirit is willing.

Spells: A Shinigami casts divine spells, which are drawn from the Shinigami spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a Shinigami must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Shinigami’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Shinigami’s Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Shinigami can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Shinigami. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score. When Table: Shinigami Spells Known indicates that the Shinigami gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intelligence score for that spell level.

The Shinigami’s selection of spells is extremely limited. At 4th level a Shinigami knows four 1st level spells of your choice. At most new Shinigami levels, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Shinigami Spells Known.

Incorporeal: At 15th level a Shinigami gains the ability to go incorporeal once a day. At 19th level the Shinigami may go incorporeal twice a day. A Shinigami who uses this ability may transit between the Ethereal/Material Plane as is appropriate. For example, a Shinigami who uses this ability while on the Ethereal Plane crosses over to the Material Plane. This effect lasts until the Shinigami chooses to return to the Plane that the ability was initially used on OR until the Shinigami’s HP goes into the negative (unless he/she has the Diehard Feat!)

Evasion: See Rogue class description in PHB 3.5

Improved Evasion: See Rogue Class description in PHB 3.5

Undead Slayer: Functions as Ranger’s Favored Enemy ability except the bonus is +3 instead of +2.

Detect Undead: At 2nd level a Shinigami may use Detect Undead as a supernatural ability at will.

Ex-Shinigami: A Shinigami who changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the ways of The Order of Souls to a non-Shinigami loses all spells and Shinigami abilities (not including weapon, and armor proficiencies). He or she cannot thereafter gain levels as a Shinigami until he or she has atoned for his or her sin (see the atonement spell description).


Any suggestions about how to deal with spells known? Better definition for Spirits? How about the Spells type? I figured Divine considering, but this can be rather loose.

I was also thinking of letting them learn spells as a Wizard. Only the one's on the Shinigami's spells list. Would this be too much?

[SilentNight]

Seems a little underpowered but otherwise good. I'd either bump their spellcasting, especially in the buff department or give them some more combat oriented abilities.

Two other things. One: Why the non-evil? I would think non-good if anything. Two: They need wings.

Other than that nice job.

[kyoten]

The spellcasting is limited due to the fact that they are for the most part physical combatants who fall back on certain magicks.

Can you provide sample ideas for buffers or abilities?

I was thinking of dropping the alignment prerequisite.

WINGS?! Why?

[SilentNight]

If they're intended as combatants then pirit weapon should progress further than +3 and maybe some more abilities. As far as buffs, look at the cleric's list, they have all the really nice ones.

Wings: A:they're badass secondly, I've only seen Shinigami in the Deathnote manga but they have wings. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Moonshadow]

These are Bleach shinigami. They don't have wings.

[KetsuruiLLauve]

Maybe you could think the acrobatics class ability like Blade Dancers in OA have, a scaling bonus to jump and tumble. Leap of the clouds wouldn't be bad too, considering some of the feats in the manga/anime.

Divine magic could work, psionics might be able to as well with the right flavoring and adding a verbal component.

I've really thought of the idea of basing them off ToB classes, but it would take some shuffling of things around and depowering in some areas to allow for their swords.

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Looks alright, though perhaps you should have specified whether it was Bleach or not.

If you want an alignment prerequisite, "Lawful" seems to make more sense than "Any Non-Evil."

[kyoten]

Looks alright, though perhaps you should have specified whether it was Bleach or not.

If you want an alignment prerequisite, "Lawful" seems to make more sense than "Any Non-Evil."


Yeah, my bad I meant a Bleach-style Shinigami.

I like the alignment requirement, but using Kenpachi as a counter would it still be fitting or would it be better to remove the alignment requirement all together?

[SilentNight]

Ah, gotcha, you may still want to give them some form of flight.

[Innis Cabal]

Table and Format, its all on the Guide to Homebrewing in the forums section.

Aside from some obvious problems, like Ghost Touch at level one (thats giving your character a weapon thats 1250 gold at level one) the progression for its...not that great. +3 at level 14, not only that but you can only add a +1 one on to it, this ability is sadly underpowered.

Lets get to the rest, so flavor and the like. Why any nonevil? There were evil Shinigami in the series, plenty of them actually. Alignment restrictions are never good, let alone ones that are rather arbitrary.

Why do they all cast spells? Maneuvers are by far the best option, Kido users should be a PrC.

"Spirit Weapon" is way to broad, and again they should be using maneuvers, it fits the style of a Shounen manga/anime far beter then vacian spellcasting(Power Points fits better for actual magic but thats not the topic). Make them choose a weapon at level one they apply weapon focus to, and only that weapon. As they progress they get more feats for that weapon to make them better in combat with it, look at the chart in OA Samurai if you want them to be able to add enchancment bonus's to it.

Why evasion for all of them? Why Undead Slayer. Hallows are arguably not undead. Give them bonus's against spirit creatures, as its an actual subtype and is more in style with the series.

Not trying to be mean, trying to give an honest PEACH here. As written they arn't really Shinigami from any setting actual myth or anime/manga. As written they are vastly underpowered.

[Solaris]

I think this version of the Soul Burial works out better:

Soul Burial (Su): A Shinigami who is adjacent to an undead or a creature with the Spirit subtype may attempt, as a full-round action, to release the spirit to the heavens. The Shinigami must make a diplomacy check against a DC equal to 10 + the creature's HD + the creature's Wisdom modifier. Hostile creatures receive a +8 bonus on this check, unfriendly creatures receive a +4 bonus on this check, and indifferent creatures receive a +2 bonus on this check. Mindless undead do not get this check; they are simply destroyed, their spirit released to the heavens.
An undead destroyed in this manner can be raised as though it were never undead, provided the spirit is willing.

I also agree about their Spirit Weapon needing to be... better. I'd go with the Samurai as a basis for what to work with. It still gets Ghost Touch for free, but the Shinigami can imbue it with m0r3 p0w3r. You could charge them a small amount of experience points or gold to get special abilities, but I'm thinking an enhancement bonus ought to come at a level progression (+1 at first, +2 at fourth, +3 at eighth, +4 at twelfth, and +5 at sixteenth).

Methinketh you'd be well-served to change the Undead Slayer to a progression. +2 vs undead at 5th, +4 at 10th, +6 at 15th, +8 at 20th, and so on a la Ranger. Either that, or evil outsiders with the Spirit subtype. Depends on what you want to call Hollows.

I disagree with Innis; unless you want to make a PrC (or say Kido users are multiclass casters), leave the spellcasting progression in. Then again, I don't know ToB maneuvers at all so I'm biased against them to begin with.

... I see nothing wrong with diverging from the source material to give them wings.

[kyoten]

Table and Format, its all on the Guide to Homebrewing in the forums section.

Lets get to the rest, so flavor and the like. Why any nonevil? There were evil Shinigami in the series, plenty of them actually. Alignment restrictions are never good, let alone ones that are rather arbitrary.

Why do they all cast spells? Maneuvers are by far the best option, Kido users should be a PrC.


Not trying to be mean, trying to give an honest PEACH here. As written they arn't really Shinigami from any setting actual myth or anime/manga. As written they are vastly underpowered.

I'll scrap the alignment requirement

All shinigami learn kido! It's just that some are better at it than others. This would be represented by a higher Int score and feat selection. I'm trying to stay away from ToB, good book btw, because some DMs are weary of using Manuevers.

TY for your honesty!

[kyoten]

I think this version of the Soul Burial works out better:

Soul Burial (Su): A Shinigami who is adjacent to an undead or a creature with the Spirit subtype may attempt, as a full-round action, to release the spirit to the heavens. The Shinigami must make a diplomacy check against a DC equal to 10 + the creature's HD + the creature's Wisdom modifier. Hostile creatures receive a +8 bonus on this check, unfriendly creatures receive a +4 bonus on this check, and indifferent creatures receive a +2 bonus on this check. Mindless undead do not get this check; they are simply destroyed, their spirit released to the heavens.

An undead destroyed in this manner can be raised as though it were never undead, provided the spirit is willing.


I like this version as well, hope there are no probs with me using it.

[kyoten]

Table and Format, its all on the Guide to Homebrewing in the forums section.

Aside from some obvious problems, like Ghost Touch at level one (thats giving your character a weapon thats 1250 gold at level one) the progression for its...not that great. +3 at level 14, not only that but you can only add a +1 one on to it, this ability is sadly underpowered.

"Spirit Weapon" is way to broad, and again they should be using maneuvers, it fits the style of a Shounen manga/anime far beter then vacian spellcasting(Power Points fits better for actual magic but thats not the topic). Make them choose a weapon at level one they apply weapon focus to, and only that weapon. As they progress they get more feats for that weapon to make them better in combat with it, look at the chart in OA Samurai if you want them to be able to add enchancment bonus's to it.

Why evasion for all of them? Why Undead Slayer. Hallows are arguably not undead. Give them bonus's against spirit creatures, as its an actual subtype and is more in style with the series.

Not trying to be mean, trying to give an honest PEACH here. As written they arn't really Shinigami from any setting actual myth or anime/manga. As written they are vastly underpowered.

Ghost Touch is a +1 enhancement meaning it cost 2,000GP + also in order to have an enhancement the weapon would need to be at least a +1 magical weapon on top of that. Thus the weapon would cost 8,000+GP (total wpn enh bonus x 2,000)

Don't have access to the OA Samurai class to reference.

Thinking about scrapping Evasion and Improved Evasion...

Any suggestion on how to balance out the weapon situation?

[Zephyros]

You could also try and make a homebrew class to represent the weapon masters or the weaponsfrom Soul Eater. The cap ability could be like becoming Shinigami like power for the masters and deathscythes for the weapons.

And it should have some decent mechanic for the master weilding the weapon...



Mmmm...

Someone should definetely do it (maybe me... maybe only ) :smallbiggrin:

[kyoten]

You could also try and make a homebrew class to represent the weapon masters or the weaponsfrom Soul Eater. The cap ability could be like becoming Shinigami like power for the masters and deathscythes for the weapons.

And it should have some decent mechanic for the master weilding the weapon...



Mmmm...

Someone should definetely do it (maybe me... maybe only ) :smallbiggrin:

Not familiar with it, but if you decided to HB i'd check it out.

[Zephyros]

http://www.animepaper.net/upload/thumbs/wallpapers/Soul-Eater/%5Blarge%5D%5BAnimePaper%5Dwallpapers_Soul-Eater_qrdel(1.6)__THISRES__77258.jpg

This is one of the protagonists (Maka) and her weapon partner (Soul)

http://static2.animepaper.net/upload/thumbs/wallpapers/Soul-Eater/%5Blarge%5D%5BAnimePaper%5Dwallpapers_Soul-Eater_NosVII(1.6)__THISRES__76489.jpg

This is Death the Shinigami in good times as a teacher...

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:gBeeqPTfEgj5aM:http://randomc.animeblogger.net:8000/image/SOUL%2520EATER/SOUL%2520EATER%2520-%252019%2520-%2520Large%252003.jpg

...and in his true form :smallbiggrin:


edit: sorry for derailing the thread :smallredface:

[Innis Cabal]

The Meister would better be handled by a PrC, not only that but it comes with the same problems many have with Leadership and class's that grant you an aid character. Truely a new system would be best for it altogather.

[Solaris]

Not familiar with it, but if you decided to HB i'd check it out.

Hrm. I'm not familiar with them, either, but think feats could handle the task?
I'm pretty sure I'd go with feats for the whatchamacallits, when the Bleach-style Shinigami's weapon goes for it's "Final Form" type deal.

[kyoten]

I'm pretty sure I'd go with feats for the whatchamacallits, when the Bleach-style Shinigami's weapon goes for it's "Final Form" type deal.

I can't see how feats would represent the zanpaktous various effects. To my knowledge feats don't provide elemental damage bonuses, speed enhancements, defense bonuses (sans TWD), etc...

I'll concede that some feats fit the theme, such feats that grant skill bonuses.

[kyoten]

Why evasion for all of them? Why Undead Slayer. Hallows are arguably not undead. Give them bonus's against spirit creatures, as its an actual subtype and is more in style with the series.



Any suggestions on fixing the evasion/improved evasion situation? Can anyone provide me with info on the Spirit Subtype?

[kyoten]

Seems a little underpowered but otherwise good. I'd either bump their spellcasting, especially in the buff department or give them some more combat oriented abilities.

Two other things. One: Why the non-evil? I would think non-good if anything. Two: They need wings.

Other than that nice job.

No on the wings, fixed the Alignment issue.

The reason I cut back on buffs was because I have yet to learn of any buffing kidos. All of the one's i've seen were offensive or restrictive not buffing.

Should I change the spell type to Arcane instead of Divine. I picked divine for flavor, but I am starting to feel that Arcane is more accurate.

[Solaris]

I can't see how feats would represent the zanpaktous various effects. To my knowledge feats don't provide elemental damage bonuses, speed enhancements, defense bonuses (sans TWD), etc...

I'll concede that some feats fit the theme, such feats that grant skill bonuses.

There's precedent for feats doing supernatural stuff (Dragonmarks, Exalted feats, etc). Then again, it doesn't really seem... necessary, with the progression you've got going.
To stay truer to the source material, are you gonna require any kind of activation for the extra bonuses?

Hrm. Leave them as Divine casters. My recommendation (because MAD is fun for everyone!) is requiring Intelligence to learn, Wisdom for DCs and bonus spells/day.

[kyoten]

There's precedent for feats doing supernatural stuff (Dragonmarks, Exalted feats, etc). Then again, it doesn't really seem... necessary, with the progression you've got going.
To stay truer to the source material, are you gonna require any kind of activation for the extra bonuses?

Hrm. Leave them as Divine casters. My recommendation (because MAD is fun for everyone!) is requiring Intelligence to learn, Wisdom for DCs and bonus spells/day.

Trying to stay Core as much as possible since some DMs might not permit supplementals in their campaign. I didn't even think of Dragonmarks!

Yes, i'm going to require some kind of trigger any suggestions?

Why Wisdom to determine save DCs and Bonus spells/day. They learn through study not insight or divine connections?

[MageSparrowhawk]

I've seen this done before, and one of my suggestions for it would be to split this into at least 2 classes, one for Kido focused Shinigami, and the other for combat focused ones.

Also, their weapons should be considerably better then they are as written. The weapons (at least) should become +5 by 20th. On top of any special abilities granted.

Maybe instead of a pre-set list of abilities, you should have 'talent trees' similar to that of D20 modern and similar games. Or at least optional starting builds, eg. one with little to no spellcasting, but full BAB; and one with half BAB, but lots more casting ability. Also, I don't think they should get healing normally. probably as a PrC, as only one of the squads has shown any healing ability at all.

[kyoten]

I've seen this done before, and one of my suggestions for it would be to split this into at least 2 classes, one for Kido focused Shinigami, and the other for combat focused ones.

Also, their weapons should be considerably better then they are as written. The weapons (at least) should become +5 by 20th. On top of any special abilities granted.

Maybe instead of a pre-set list of abilities, you should have 'talent trees' similar to that of D20 modern and similar games. Or at least optional starting builds, eg. one with little to no spellcasting, but full BAB; and one with half BAB, but lots more casting ability. Also, I don't think they should get healing normally. probably as a PrC, as only one of the squads has shown any healing ability at all.

Trying to stay in D&D ruleset not D20 Modern. Would a variant class option be better to deal with the spellcaster issue?

Feat requirement for heal spells? Something like this:

4th Court Guard Squad Training [Shinigami]
Flavor text: Your specialized training on the bodies anatomy and psychology has taught you how to better aid those whom are injured, either physically or mentally.

Prerequisites: Heal 5 ranks, Shinigami 1st level

Benefits: You gain access to Calm Emotions, Charm Monster, Charm Person, Neutralize Poisons, Remove Curse, Restoration, and the Cure spells listed under the Shinigami spell list.

Normal: A Shinigami can't cast the above listed spells.

Still need help figuring out how to deal with the Weapon Progression issue.

[MageSparrowhawk]

that feat sounds pretty good....might want to rename it "4th Court Guard Squad Training" to get the flavor right....

Actually, here's an idea...at first level, you pick which squad you're a part of. Then you get variant abilities based off of that choice. Eg. someone from the 11th squad gets full BAB, and power attack for example.

and as for the swords, how about you are able to trigger some spell either for a duration or as an attack. Haste for Ichigo's Bankai for example.

I'm not sure if you have anything in there already, but you might want to add something for Shunpo.

[kyoten]

that feat sounds pretty good....might want to rename it "4th Court Guard Squad Training" to get the flavor right....

Actually, here's an idea...at first level, you pick which squad you're a part of. Then you get variant abilities based off of that choice. Eg. someone from the 11th squad gets full BAB, and power attack for example.

and as for the swords, how about you are able to trigger some spell either for a duration or as an attack. Haste for Ichigo's Bankai for example.

I'm not sure if you have anything in there already, but you might want to add something for Shunpo.

I like the feat name you suggested.

Can you provide me with a breakdown of the squads. Either post or PM me a list of squad number/ Capt./ Vice Capt./ and role. From there i'll see what I can do about Variations.

I like the spell-like zanpaktou ability, any other suggestions?

Shunpo...i've got a few ideas...where are those foundations...*goes searching*

[Innis Cabal]

Wiki it, it will get you all the info you need

[MageSparrowhawk]

I haven't been able to find much in the way of specifics (quite possibly because the specifics haven't been released yet)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soul_Reapers_in_Bleach
This has a fair amount of info, mostly about the characters themselves, but there is enough info to make at least a couple 'starter feats' off of.

nothing off the top of my head on other spells...well....*hmmm*
Hitsugaya probably has a nasty variation of cone of cold...or else that 'Freeze' spell.
Ichimaru has something like bloodwind, that lets him make attacks at a range.
Byakuya has a base of vortex of teeth, and some variations thereof for the other things he can do with his zanpaktou

I'd love to help build this class, as I enjoy both the show and designing stuff like this....so...yeah. :smallbiggrin:

[kyoten]

I haven't been able to find much in the way of specifics (quite possibly because the specifics haven't been released yet)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soul_Reapers_in_Bleach
This has a fair amount of info, mostly about the characters themselves, but there is enough info to make at least a couple 'starter feats' off of.

nothing off the top of my head on other spells...well....*hmmm*
Hitsugaya probably has a nasty variation of cone of cold...or else that 'Freeze' spell.
Ichimaru has something like bloodwind, that lets him make attacks at a range.
Byakuya has a base of vortex of teeth, and some variations thereof for the other things he can do with his zanpaktou

I'd love to help build this class, as I enjoy both the show and designing stuff like this....so...yeah. :smallbiggrin:

Any help would be appreciated. And I got the info from wiki just now. Currently i'm working on a simple table listing squad, captain, vice captain, and basic purpose of squad. This should help me to design variations or bonus feats. Any follow up would be nice.

I have the summary for Squad 4 (healing & supplies), 11 (fighting), and 12 (scientific knowledge and research). I'm pretty sure Squad 2 would be stealth / recon. Any other basic summaries or corrections would be nice.

I'll check back in tomorrow.

[MageSparrowhawk]

I believe squad 6 would be more accurately described as "close quarters, beat your face in" fighting...

also, squad 6 is 'combat tactics' if I remember correctly.

happy to help!

[KetsuruiLLauve]

I think the biggest problem with an Shinigami type class is the fact that in the anime/manga its apparent that not all Shinigami belong to one class. People like Hanataro and Momo are caster types and even different types of caster at that. Ikkaku and Kenpachi are definately full BAB classes. Then you have people like Byakuya and Soi Fon that are fighters, but use more than just straight brute force to win.

The only way I've been able to think of that is to make Shinigami a template rather than a class. The template would grant a few of the powers all Shinigami are down to have, like basic spells/psionics, maybe some stat adjustments, skill bonuses, Leap of the Clouds(since all shinigami can hop around like kangaroos) and most importantly their zanpakutō. For that I'd steal from Weapons of Legacy, adding a few things here and there and removing the penalties.

That way you can pretty much allow everyone to play a shinigami, but have everyone be different crunch-wise beyond just the weapon they use.

[Solaris]

I think the biggest problem with an Shinigami type class is the fact that in the anime/manga its apparent that not all Shinigami belong to one class. People like Hanataro and Momo are caster types and even different types of caster at that. Ikkaku and Kenpachi are definately full BAB classes. Then you have people like Byakuya and Soi Fon that are fighters, but use more than just straight brute force to win.

The only way I've been able to think of that is to make Shinigami a template rather than a class. The template would grant a few of the powers all Shinigami are down to have, like basic spells/psionics, maybe some stat adjustments, skill bonuses, Leap of the Clouds(since all shinigami can hop around like kangaroos) and most importantly their zanpakutō. For that I'd steal from Weapons of Legacy, adding a few things here and there and removing the penalties.

That way you can pretty much allow everyone to play a shinigami, but have everyone be different crunch-wise beyond just the weapon they use.

I agree, that'd work better for Bleach. I'm thinking this class works as a setting-neutral shinigami that has heavy Bleach influences, which is what I've been thinking of it as.

[kyoten]

I agree, that'd work better for Bleach. I'm thinking this class works as a setting-neutral shinigami that has heavy Bleach influences, which is what I've been thinking of it as.

That's it! That's the way to describe what i'm trying to pull off. Thank you, thank you so much.

[kyoten]

I believe squad 6 would be more accurately described as "close quarters, beat your face in" fighting...

also, squad 6 is 'combat tactics' if I remember correctly.

happy to help!

IIRC Squad is Byakuya's squad. I don't agree with the beat your face in summary, but I do agree with the combat tactics analysis.

Also, i'm working on a method to represent Flash Step. Once I get it hammered out some more I will post it.

[Solaris]

Just swinging from the name of it, I'm guessing Flash Step some kind of low-grade dimension door SLA?

By the by, I was looking at the spell list and noticed you have several spells put in there with a slash, like Fireball/Lightning bolt. What's up with that?

[kyoten]

Just swinging from the name of it, I'm guessing Flash Step some kind of low-grade dimension door SLA?

By the by, I was looking at the spell list and noticed you have several spells put in there with a slash, like Fireball/Lightning bolt. What's up with that?

Flash Step will either be a SLA or Supernatural.

Those hearken back to when I was writing my ideas down on scrap paper. I was lacking space and had to make them fit somehow. I'll correct it here.

[MageSparrowhawk]

*eh* I suppose my perception of squad 11 is twisted by Zaraki...

A good way to do Flash step might be a move-equivalent dimension leap (Dragonmark of Passage) that gets longer as you get higher in level.

I look forward to the possible creation of a 'shinigami template', because I may need one (eventually) in the game I'm playing atm.

[Solaris]

A good way to do Flash step might be a move-equivalent dimension leap (Dragonmark of Passage) that gets longer as you get higher in level.


That's what I was thinking. 10-ft increments per level, isn't it?

[kyoten]

That's what I was thinking. 10-ft increments per level, isn't it?

I was thinking of providing X uses per day. Distance traversed would be situational. In combat distance covered per use would be formula Y; while outside of combat distance covered per use would be formula Z.

Would that be unbalanced? I mean you only get X uses per day, so if you use it all up in combat then your out.

[Solaris]

Hrmm. I don't see how that would be a terrific problem - can the Shinigami bring other people along with it? If not, the PC Shinigami is not going to get nearly so much use out of the overland Flash Step as the tactical Flash Step.
I'd like to see a Shinigami/Shadowdancer. That'd be kinda fun.


Spiritual Empathy (Su): The shinigami can use body language, calming chants, and demeanor to improve the attitude of an undead or creature with the Spirit subtype with an Intelligence score. This ability functions similar to a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The shinigami rolls 1d20 and adds his shinigami level and his Charisma bonus opposed against the target's Will save to determine the spiritual empathy check result. If the shinigami beats the target by 5 or more, the target's attitude improves one step. If the shinigami beats the target by 15 or more, the target's attitude improves two steps. If the shinigami beats the target by 30 or more, the target's attitude improves three steps. The typical undead creature has a starting attitude of unfriendly or hostile, while Spirit creatures are usually indifferent.
To use spiritual empathy, the shinigami and the target creature must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing the target creature in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. While using spiritual empathy, the target creature is entranced with the shinigami and does nothing except stare at him, but any hostile action on the part of the shinigami or his allies breaks this trance.
Note that, in the case of undead such as a bodak, this might not be a particularly wise move.
A revamp/clarification of the spiritual empathy ability ('cause as it was, not so much). Whaddya think?

[kyoten]

Hrmm. I don't see how that would be a terrific problem - can the Shinigami bring other people along with it? If not, the PC Shinigami is not going to get nearly so much use out of the overland Flash Step as the tactical Flash Step.
I'd like to see a Shinigami/Shadowdancer. That'd be kinda fun.


A revamp/clarification of the spiritual empathy ability ('cause as it was, not so much). Whaddya think?

I like it. Three questions though.

1.) Why a will save?

2.) How would you figure the overland Flash Step with people. I can understand transporting up to two people. What's your outlook on this.

3.) Would it be better to make Flash Step a feat since to my recollection not all Shinigami can use the Flash Step?

[PinkysBrain]

Approaching this purely from Bleach's version of Shinigami I don't think putting the entirety of the progression into class levels fits Bleach very well. Character proficiency in hand to hand combat, kidou, shunpo etc differ largely. Whereas every high level member of this class would be a virtual kido/shunpo master. I would go so far as to say that the only thing really linking the Shinigami together in Bleach is the politics and their use of Zanpakto. Thus I'd personally develop the weapon almost entirely separately from the classes (ala Weapons of Legacy). Talking about weapons, where are Shikai and Bankai?

With the Zanpakto out of the way there is a lot more room to fit in the original Bleach characters. The "classical" well rounded Shinigami as examplified by Kuchiki Rukiya/Byakuya would best fit with something like Psychic Warriors. Someone like Yoruichi could be a psionic version of the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327), etc.

[MageSparrowhawk]

For Shunpo, people have been seen carrying one person along with them...so, maybe no more than your medium load?
and for distance, how about you get a total distance per encounter, and a total distance (which is much higher) per day. How about 5' per level for encounters, and no more than 10'+2 ft/level per jump. Per day you'd get 40' per level. Each jump you make takes out of your total for each day, and also your distance per encounter (however, your per encounter recharges after each encounter).

However thinking about it, I (and it looks like some other people as well) have realized that there's a significant difference in level of ability for all the combat attributes (Shunjutsu, Zanjutsu and Kido). So...how about you pick the rate at which you gain your abilities? one you pick as slow, one as medium and one as high. I suppose you could also forgo each of them (to some extent or another) for other benefits. Eg. Rukia would have high casting, moderate melee combat, and low shunpo. Yoruichi would have high shunpo, moderate hand to hand, and low kido. Zaraki would have high hand to hand, forgo his Shunpo for fast movement, and forgo his Kido for an excessive amount of health/Reitsu. (how are we going to factor that in? reitsu that is. It's been shown to do anything from lightly hampering to actually forcing people to the ground.)

The Zanpakutō is also in interesting proposition. basing it off of a weapons of legacy-type arrangement might be the best way of going about it, though I don't have the book in front of me atm. Probably one step at 8-10th level for Shikai, and 16-18th level for Bankai. not sure how to go about picking abilities...but I'm sure we can figure out something.

[PinkysBrain]

If you use psionic like casting (which I think fits much much better than Vancian casting in this case) reiatsu could be the equivalent of powerpoint reserve.

Some type of Frightful Presence with a DC dependent on the size of the reserve seems like a decent equivalent to the way reiatsu influences lesser Shinigami, also some type of Damage Resistance ability which works off reiatsu to simulate Kenpachi/Ichigo's ability to absorb damage.

[MageSparrowhawk]

hmmm...power points as Spirit pressure....could work very well...

*seconded*

[kyoten]

For Shunpo, people have been seen carrying one person along with them...so, maybe no more than your medium load?
and for distance, how about you get a total distance per encounter, and a total distance (which is much higher) per day. How about 5' per level for encounters, and no more than 10'+2 ft/level per jump. Per day you'd get 40' per level. Each jump you make takes out of your total for each day, and also your distance per encounter (however, your per encounter recharges after each encounter).

However thinking about it, I (and it looks like some other people as well) have realized that there's a significant difference in level of ability for all the combat attributes (Shunjutsu, Zanjutsu and Kido). So...how about you pick the rate at which you gain your abilities? one you pick as slow, one as medium and one as high. I suppose you could also forgo each of them (to some extent or another) for other benefits. Eg. Rukia would have high casting, moderate melee combat, and low shunpo. Yoruichi would have high shunpo, moderate hand to hand, and low kido. Zaraki would have high hand to hand, forgo his Shunpo for fast movement, and forgo his Kido for an excessive amount of health/Reitsu. (how are we going to factor that in? reitsu that is. It's been shown to do anything from lightly hampering to actually forcing people to the ground.)

The Zanpakutō is also in interesting proposition. basing it off of a weapons of legacy-type arrangement might be the best way of going about it, though I don't have the book in front of me atm. Probably one step at 8-10th level for Shikai, and 16-18th level for Bankai. not sure how to go about picking abilities...but I'm sure we can figure out something.

I like the Shunpo idea, it could change based on your style.

The Shinigami style could be represented by three variations. One representing each of the special styles.

Kido - higher spell progression and spell feats / Poor BAB

Shunpo - higher starting Flash Step capacity and greater progression / Good BAB

Combat - Best BAB, no spell progression, fighter feat progression, low Flash Step progression, Fast Movement, rage(?)

What do you think? Any suggestions.

Let me know if you have any alternatives to the Legacy weapon idea. I like the idea, but I don't have access to the book. If you can design the idea and post it or PM me i'll check it over.

[MageSparrowhawk]

for the combat specialist, I think they should have a reasonable ability for Shunpo. Case in point Ichigo. Granted, he's not the best example, being the main character and all, but if you notice he is definitely a melee combat specialist. However, he's been shown to keep up with some of the better shunpo users.
...
I just realized that both Beyakuya and Renji fall into that category as well. Renji is also at least barely able to use Kido, and Beyakuya is actually very good.

hmmm...

I suppose they could be simply higher level (eg. Beyakuya took an average progression for all three atributes and is simply significantly higher level), but that seems a little unlikely...then again, he is from one of the 'noble families' which have been stated to be better...in general.

:smallyuk: this is really difficult...

Alright. I suppose this should boil down to how accurately you want to reproduce the abilities. I guess I'd recommend cutting it into two classes, a caster with moderate attack, and a melee with little to no casting (maybe just a couple spells total). Give them all equal shunpo, and then make a couple PrCs to account for the specialists (healer, shunjutsu master, etc.). Make a separate (and equal) progression for the Zanpakutō for everyone and a couple other class features (reitsu pressure, soul burial) for everyone to cover the remaining attributes of the class.

[kyoten]

for the combat specialist, I think they should have a reasonable ability for Shunpo. Case in point Ichigo. Granted, he's not the best example, being the main character and all, but if you notice he is definitely a melee combat specialist. However, he's been shown to keep up with some of the better shunpo users.
...
I just realized that both Beyakuya and Renji fall into that category as well. Renji is also at least barely able to use Kido, and Beyakuya is actually very good.

hmmm...

I suppose they could be simply higher level (eg. Beyakuya took an average progression for all three atributes and is simply significantly higher level), but that seems a little unlikely...then again, he is from one of the 'noble families' which have been stated to be better...in general.

:smallyuk: this is really difficult...

Alright. I suppose this should boil down to how accurately you want to reproduce the abilities. I guess I'd recommend cutting it into two classes, a caster with moderate attack, and a melee with little to no casting (maybe just a couple spells total). Give them all equal shunpo, and then make a couple PrCs to account for the specialists (healer, shunjutsu master, etc.). Make a separate (and equal) progression for the Zanpakutō for everyone and a couple other class features (reitsu pressure, soul burial) for everyone to cover the remaining attributes of the class.

Should the caster class max at 10/5 or 15/10/5? Spell progression similar to Cleric?

I agree on the shunpo idea.

Give me a few days to work up separate tables for the Kido base and Combat base class. From there i'll see what I can do about PrCs after getting input.

Can you help with the zanpaktou? I don't got Weapons of Legacy and I strongly agree that would be the best way to go.

I still think Soul Burial should stay as is, if anyone disagrees why?

How to work out the Spirit Pressure concept.

[kyoten]

reserved for Combat base

Version A
Combat Shinigami
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Spirit Weapon, Frightful Presence

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Detect Undead

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Battle Lust

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Combat Sense +2

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Flash Steps

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5|Bonus Feat

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5|Spirit Weapon Level 2

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6|Combat Sense +3

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Undead Slayer

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Soul Burial

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|Killing Intent

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|Combat Sense +4

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|Bonus Feat

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|Spirit Weapon Level 3

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9|Incorporeal 1/day

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10|Combat Sense +5

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Only the Strong Survive

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|Bonus Feat

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Incorporeal 2/day

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Bonus Feat[/table]

Soul Burial (Su): A Shinigami who is adjacent to an undead or a creature with the Spirit subtype may attempt, as a full-round action, to release the spirit to the heavens. The Shinigami must make a touch attack against the Spirit. If successful he must then make a diplomacy check against a DC equal to 10 + the creature's HD + the creature's Wisdom modifier. Hostile creatures receive a +8 bonus on this check, unfriendly creatures receive a +4 bonus on this check, and indifferent creatures receive a +2 bonus on this check. Mindless undead do not get this check; they are simply destroyed, their spirit released to the heavens.

An undead destroyed in this manner can be raised as though it were never undead, provided the spirit is willing.

Bonus Feats: Whenever a Shinigami gains a bonus feat they may choose from the Fighter Bonus Feat list any feat for which they qualify. WIP

Frightful Presence (Ex): As a standard action a Shinigami may unleash his spiritual pressure to frighten any opponents within a radius of 30 feet of him or her. The opponents must then make a Will save against a DC (10 + ½ class level (minimum of 1) + Cha mod) if they fail the opponent becomes shaken for a number of rounds equal to 5d6 rounds. This ability can only affect opponents of fewer HD than the user. An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s frightful presence for 24 hours.

Battle Lust: As Frightful presence but the user can now affect opponents with equal or lesser HD. If opponent has less HD they become Frightened if they fail their saving throw. Also the radius is now 45 feet.

Killing Intent: As Battle Lust but if the opponent fails their saving throw they become unconscious for 3d6 rounds. If they make their saving throw the opponent becomes unable to take any offensive actions for 2d4 rounds. The range is reduced to 20 feet and the DC increases by 2 due to the raw power and focus behind this ability.

Only the Strong Survive: As Battle Lust but the user can now affect opponents of any HD. If the opponent has more HD they merely become Shaken. Radius is 60 feet.


Version B
Kido Combatant Shinigami
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Spirit Weapon|-|-

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Detect Undead|-|-|-

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Frightful Presence|-|-|-|-

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Spells|0|0|-|-|-

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Combat Sense +2|0|0|-|-|-|

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5|Flash Steps|1|1|-|-|-|

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5|Spirit Weapon Level 2|1|1|-|-|-|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6|Bonus Feat|1|1|0|-|-|

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Undead Slayer|1|1|0|-|-|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Soul Burial|1|1|1|-|-|

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|Combat Sense +3|1|1|1|0|-|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|Battle Lust|1|1|1|1|-|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|Bonus Feat|1|1|1|1|-|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|Spirit Weapon Level 3|2|2|1|1|0|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9|Incorporeal 1/day|2|2|1|1|1|

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10||2|2|2|1|1|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Combat Sense +4|2|2|2|2|1|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11||3|3|2|2|1|

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Incorporeal 2/day|3|3|3|3|2|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Killing Intent|3|3|3|3|3|[/table]

For class features that aren't self-explanatory see above spoiler for Version A!

Zanpaktou Progression

{table=head]Level|Special

1st|Ghost Touch

2nd|

3rd|

4th|+1 Ghost Touch

5th|

6th|Shikai

7th|

8th|+2 Ghost Touch

9th|

10th|

11th|

12th|+3 Ghost Touch

13th|

14th|

15th|Bankai

16th|+4 Ghost Touch

17th|

18th|

19th|

20th|+5 Ghost Touch[/table]

Outdates Spirit Weapon class feature.

This progression represents the Shinigami and Zanpaktou's natural progression. The Zanpaktou can be enhanced like a normal magical weapon as well.

This is merely a conceptual idea for now. I am still waiting to hear back on the Weapons of Legacy concept.

DM Note
If the DM wishes he or she may substitute the Spell Point Variant rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) instead of using spell slots. Just substitute in the Paladin/Ranger progression for the Kido Combatant's Spell Points.

I will post the two versions of the Combatant Shinigami I have Tuesday. Also, note I will only be posting anything, class feature wise, that is different.

EDIT: Changed Zanpaktou progression.

[kyoten]

reserved for Kido base
Kido trained Shinigami
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Spirit Weapon, Spells|5|3|-|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Detect Undead|6|4|-|-|-|

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Flash Steps|6|5|-|-|-|

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Metamagic Feat|6|6|3|-|-|

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Combat Sense +2|6|6|4|-|-|

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Class Ability|6|6|5|3|-|

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Spirit Weapon Level 2|6|6|6|4|-|

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Metamagic Feat|6|6|6|5|3|

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Class Ability|6|6|6|6|4|

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Soul Burial|6|6|6|6|5|

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Class Ability|6|6|6|6|6|

12th|
+9/4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Metamagic Feat|6|6|6|6|6|

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Class Ability|6|6|6|6|6|

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9|Spirit Weapon Level 3|6|6|6|6|6|

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|Incorporeal 1/day|6|6|6|6|6|

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Metamagic Feat|6|6|6|6|6|

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Class Ability|6|6|6|6|6|

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|Class Ability|6|6|6|6|6|

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Incorporeal 2/day|6|6|6|6|6|

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Metamagic Feat|6|6|6|6|6|[/table]

Metamagic Feat: At 4th level and every four levels after a Kido trained shinigami may choose a Metamagic feat for which he or she qualifies for.


Will have it worked out shortly.

[PinkysBrain]

How about just a plain Psychic Warrior with an alternate class feature which lets him trade in his power progression for DR depending on his present power point pool?

You can still get expanded knowledge feats for shunpo (Dimension Slide) and flight (although a psionic version of Air Walk would be better).

Together with existing psionic prestige classes and Weapons of Legacy that covers all the bases quite elegantly.

[MageSparrowhawk]

The caster should get moderate BAB....and probably spells up to 9th (or manifestations if you want to go that way)

the fighter should either get spells up to 4th (ish), or else have a class feature to give up casting for some kinda fancy ability.

I will look into the weapons of legacy issue...

soul burial looks pretty good...might want to add in a touch attack as part of it (poke them with the pommel of your sword) or else make sure that it includes an AoO. Add to that, maybe an optional intimidate check at a slight penalty.

one thing to note for your 'spiritual empathy'...you can already use a diplomacy check here...because they have a high enough intelligence score to do so...I suppose you could splice this ability into soul burial instead...

spirit pressure could either be based off of 'reitsu points' which could be used for all sorts of stuff...spellcasting, shikai/bankai, and maybe even shunpo. either that or make it a variant frightful presence based off of level.

I eagerly await your new builds. :biggrin:

[kyoten]

The caster should get moderate BAB....and probably spells up to 9th (or manifestations if you want to go that way)

the fighter should either get spells up to 4th (ish), or else have a class feature to give up casting for some kinda fancy ability.

I will look into the weapons of legacy issue...

soul burial looks pretty good...might want to add in a touch attack as part of it (poke them with the pommel of your sword) or else make sure that it includes an AoO. Add to that, maybe an optional intimidate check at a slight penalty.

one thing to note for your 'spiritual empathy'...you can already use a diplomacy check here...because they have a high enough intelligence score to do so...I suppose you could splice this ability into soul burial instead...

spirit pressure could either be based off of 'reitsu points' which could be used for all sorts of stuff...spellcasting, shikai/bankai, and maybe even shunpo. either that or make it a variant frightful presence based off of level.

I eagerly await your new builds. :biggrin:

Will note touch attack for Soul Burial in new builds.

Will scrap Spiritual Empathy and make a side note under Soul Burial.

I like the Frightful Presence idea i'll work on that.

[Solaris]

Will note touch attack for Soul Burial in new builds.

Will scrap Spiritual Empathy and make a side note under Soul Burial.

I like the Frightful Presence idea i'll work on that.

Good thought; I missed that.

Yeah... Spiritual Empathy really was just a Diplomacy check in disguise (sans skill points). The only thing it had going for it (as I wrote it) was that you could make the bad guy sit there and wait for you to Diplomancer him into not getting a penalty on the Soul Burial check.

Ooh, Frightful Presence. Nothing else says "I'm a badass" quite like being able to scare people simply by drawing your sword.

[kyoten]

Hey Solaris mind if I PM you my tables for the Combatant Shinigami? I have two versions.

[kyoten]

Should I use the Cleric spell progression for the Kido user or the Sorcerer?

[Solaris]

Hey Solaris mind if I PM you my tables for the Combatant Shinigami? I have two versions.
Go for it.


Should I use the Cleric spell progression for the Kido user or the Sorcerer?
Hrmm... If it's still spontaneous, Sorcerer.
However, I heartily recommend the use of spell points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm). To make it easy and user-friendly, instead of spell level restrictions like the Sorcerer has for the spells he knows, give a maximum level to the spells the Kido user could know/learn/cast at a certain level. See the Psion for what I'm talking about.

[Mando Knight]

Shinigami spellcasting is definitely spontaneous. Use either spell points or Sorcerer casting.

[kyoten]

Shinigami spellcasting is definitely spontaneous. Use either spell points or Sorcerer casting.

Sorceror progression it is, but should this affect the BAB max of +15/+10/+5?

[PinkysBrain]

Sorcerer progression? A shinigami who can pew-pew all day?

PS. I really think you should look into psionics, the power point system fits better than spell casting and pretty much all the powers are well represented the SRD psionic powers.

[kyoten]

Sorcerer progression? A shinigami who can pew-pew all day?

PS. I really think you should look into psionics, the power point system fits better than spell casting and pretty much all the powers are well represented the SRD psionic powers.

This would only apply to the Kido using base Shinigami class. Also, I asked whether Cleric or Sorceror progression would be best. Besides they have a limited spell list.

I figured Cleric progression would make more sense myself, but if you focused on Spellcasting and cut the BAB progression would it still be crazy?

As stated previously I am trying to stay Core (PHB, DMG, MM) just in case someone wants to play this class and the DM says no to the use of other books.

[Solaris]

A shinigami who can pew-pew up to fourth-level spells all day (unless the Kido-user gets higher). If the spell levels go higher, cut the BAB. If not, it should be okay.

... I don't think many DMs who disallow the use of anything outside the DMG, PHB, and MM would allow a homebrew class.

[kyoten]

A shinigami who can pew-pew up to fourth-level spells all day (unless the Kido-user gets higher). If the spell levels go higher, cut the BAB. If not, it should be okay.

... I don't think many DMs who disallow the use of anything outside the DMG, PHB, and MM would allow a homebrew class.

Two things:

Can you clarify your first statement.

In response to your second statement I have one thing to say, DOH!!

I'll work up both Spell progression and spell points as options for a DM. Give me a few days.

EDIT: Added Version A to Combat Shinigami Post on page 2!

[kyoten]

Version B is now posted in the Reserve Post for Combat Shinigami on Page 2!

I have decided to scrap the Spiritual Empathy idea completely.

[MageSparrowhawk]

I like how you did the 'spirit pressure'. looks like it works well, though I think you incorporated the first additional ability into the standard ability description.

I would also recommend that you give the combat class access to oh...one or two spells. Something very simple and offensive...aka 'Shot of red fire'.

other than that, sounds great. *goes to find source for Weapons of Legacy*

[KetsuruiLLauve]

I'd moved shikai and bankai to 5 and 15, depending on the power level of your campaign I guess. That would put Renji, Ikkaku, and Ichigo at least at 18 each. That's a bit too powerful for how they're portrayed I think. Unless that captains are far into epic at least I mean.

Just look at the difference between Ikkaku and Komamura in Knockdown Monsters.

[Solaris]

Two things:

Can you clarify your first statement.

In response to your second statement I have one thing to say, DOH!!

I'll work up both Spell progression and spell points as options for a DM. Give me a few days.

EDIT: Added Version A to Combat Shinigami Post on page 2!

Yeah. The Shinigami can cast a lot of spells, but they only go up to fourth level and you don't have any non-core spells. Thusly, it's okay.

[kyoten]

I'd moved shikai and bankai to 5 and 15, depending on the power level of your campaign I guess. That would put Renji, Ikkaku, and Ichigo at least at 18 each. That's a bit too powerful for how they're portrayed I think. Unless that captains are far into epic at least I mean.

Just look at the difference between Ikkaku and Komamura in Knockdown Monsters.

Would moving it to level 7 and 14 be better? Then that would fit with the original intent of the Spirit Weapon class ability.

EDIT: Started post of Kido trained Shinigami.

[KetsuruiLLauve]

I suggested 5 using WoL as a basis for it because that's when the weapons start to get their abilities.

You may want to make shikai and bankai based of something a character does instead of their class level, like the legacy feats in WoL. That can make them feel like they accomplished more than just "hey I'm level X, so I've truly bonded with my sword."

You could make it 6 instead of 7, so they could take a shikai related feat, like permanent release or something else if you're going to use feats to be able to enhance them as well.

[kyoten]

I suggested 5 using WoL as a basis for it because that's when the weapons start to get their abilities.

You may want to make shikai and bankai based of something a character does instead of their class level, like the legacy feats in WoL. That can make them feel like they accomplished more than just "hey I'm level X, so I've truly bonded with my sword."

You could make it 6 instead of 7, so they could take a shikai related feat, like permanent release or something else if you're going to use feats to be able to enhance them as well.

I was thinking level based to represent them gaining more experience working with their Zanpaktou, but I do agree with it being more based on personal accomplishment. I'll change Shikai's level.

Also, i'll bump Bankai down to 15th level

Any Zanpaktou feat suggesstions? Besides Permanent Release.

[kyoten]

Any suggestions for the non-combatant kido shinigami's progressions? I'm thinking of placing bonus metamagic feats at every X levels. Any suggested levels?

[MageSparrowhawk]

I'd say every 4 levels...maybe 5.

Are you still giving static enhancement bonuses to the Zanpaktou? If so, you may want to just build a small table that explains the entirety of the weapon...kinda like a animal companion or familiar. Actually, that might be a good way to think of it...design the weapon as an intelligent weapon that gains special abilities as you level (and once you do something cool, you can unlock Shikai and Bankai).

[kyoten]

I'd say every 4 levels...maybe 5.

Are you still giving static enhancement bonuses to the Zanpaktou? If so, you may want to just build a small table that explains the entirety of the weapon...kinda like a animal companion or familiar. Actually, that might be a good way to think of it...design the weapon as an intelligent weapon that gains special abilities as you level (and once you do something cool, you can unlock Shikai and Bankai).

Check out Page 2, Post #51.

Wouldn't that be akin to it being a Legacy Weapon?

[MageSparrowhawk]

*blink*blink*
...so it would...

right, didn't see that...however...are you giving Kido-specialized Shinigami full BAB? I thought you were going for 3/4 at best?

[kyoten]

*blink*blink*
...so it would...

right, didn't see that...however...are you giving Kido-specialized Shinigami full BAB? I thought you were going for 3/4 at best?

Are you referring to Version B of the combatant? I figured i'd use the paladin as a basis for that version. The Kido trained in post #52 got the 3/4 BAB and bump in spellcasting capacity.

Opinions?

[kyoten]

Flash Step (Su:) This ability can be used a number of times equal to half your Shinigami class level plus your dexterity modifier times per day. This technique functions in two ways. While in combat using Flash Step, an immediate action, allows the user to move up to 20ft. plus 5ft. per 2 shinigami levels per use. Outside of combat Flash Step allows the user to move up to 100ft. plus 25ft. per 2 shinigami levels.

In desperation a Shinigami may attempt to break these limits. Each additional use of Flash Step beyond the usual requires a Fortitude save against a DC of 15 +2 for each additional use. Should a Shinigami fail this save he or she becomes fatigued and unable to continue attempting to surpass the limitation.

If a Shinigami is already fatigued he or she cannot attempt to surpass the Flash Step limitation.

What do you think?

I'm thinking of permitting additional uses beyond the limits but at a cost? Any suggestions (i.e. Dex damage, fatigue,...)?

[MageSparrowhawk]

-each additional use forces a fort save DC 15, plus 3 for each additional use. if failed, the user becomes fatigued. Once fatigued, no more flash steps may be taken until the Shinigami has rested. If the Shinigami starts out fatigued, no uses of flash step beyond the standard 1/2 level + Dex modifier.

or something like that...not sure how the wording should be exactly, but maybe I got my idea across?