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Thurbane
2008-12-30, 10:31 PM
Hey all,

I want to have a replacement character ready in case my current one dies in our EttRoG game. I haven't played a Bard in 3.5 yet, so I was interested in what I could make of one. The rest of party includes a Druid, Monk, Fighter and Beguiler.

I'm more interested in making a combat able or buffbot Bard than a face Bard, as the Beguiler is already quite a good face man. Also, please don't recommend a different class instead, I am interested in Bard, maybe with a level dip or PrC.

Level: 8 (standard WBL)
Abilities: TBC (rolled)
Race: PHB races only, or MM subrace of same at LA +0 (i.e. no Drow, Svirfnebvlin or Duergar).
Books: PHB, DMG, MiC, SC and any one of the following: CAd, CAr, CS or PHBII.

Cheers - T

thegurullamen
2008-12-30, 10:39 PM
My suggestion is to grab a whip and use it in trips, disarms and the like from behind a good frontliner. All of the battlebard builds I've used have relied on the Snowflake Battle Dance (that name sounds off, but it's the feat from Frostburn). And even with it, bards don't make good fighters.

Bards are excellent buffbots, especially with the SC. Just examine the list of spells and pick the ones that'll work the best for your party. There's a feat that allows you to incorporate spellcasting into a Perform check to hide the casting. I can't remember the name of it, but it sounds like something to look into.

Keld Denar
2008-12-30, 10:49 PM
Go Bard5/Mindbender1/Bard2.

Your book selection is kind of oppressive. No DMGII makes it rough, as well as your lack of Complete Mage for Melodic Casting, no Dragon Magic for Dragonfire Insiration, and no Ebberon Campaign Setting for Song of the Heart.

Hmmm, I'd probably go

Bard1 (Extra Music)
Bard2
Bard3 (Open)
Bard4
Bard5
Mindbender1 (Mindsight) (Complete Arcane) (Lords of Madness)
Bard6
Bard7

Continueing on to.....
Virtuoso1 (Open)
Sublime Chord1
Virtuoso Rest (Open)

Focus on casting debuffs like Glitterdust and buffs like Haste. Get a Crystal Echoblade with Harmonizing from MIC to get your damage and free Lingering Song feat. Also purchase a Badge of Valor from MIC to boost your Inspire Courage.

Hmmm, through my drunken haze, I've managed to realize that Lords of Madness is not one of your availabile sources. Shame. Grrrr, restricted sources 4tl..............

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-12-31, 12:12 AM
Sublime Chord from CoAr might help. Your only arcane caster is the Beguiler, who is limited in spell selection. If you pick up SC, you can eventually cast like a Sorcerer, being able to pick up such fun buffs as Mind Blank, and fill out a lot of useful spells that the Beguiler doesn't have access to. While still doing Bardic Music.

BardicDuelist
2008-12-31, 01:05 AM
See, I don't really find the book list restrictive, as there are several good options in those books. The thing that I find odd is the limitation to ONE of the following. I'd say to Sublime Chord, but it certainly lacks a bit of the bard feel if you can't then go Virtuoso after a couple levels to get some music.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-31, 01:47 AM
Books: PHB, DMG, MiC, SC and any one of the following: CAd, CAr, CS or PHBII.

That's really going to make it difficult to make a music-buff-bard. Dragon Magic is almost necessary, but you could probably make due with Inspirational Boost from SC and a few Badges of Valor from MIC. No Song of the Heart and no Words of Creation hurts, but not as much as the loss of Dragonfire Inspiration. At level 8 you'll still be able to Inspire Courage at +4 with just one spell and a few of a cheap item, not a bad investment. Tack those onto whatever build you're going to use.

You should probably start considering what book you're going to pick: CA has Sublime Chord, a must-have for a spellcaster Bard, plus it has Obtain Familiar which could prove useful. CV has Versatile Performer and Lingering Song among other useful feats. CM isn't on your list but it has Melodic Casting which is almost necessary for any Bard, I'd pick that book just for that one feat. CW has feats like Arcane Strike that would be great for a combat bard if you could use it. PH2 has the Bardic Knack variant and feats like Battle Dancer and Acrobatic Strike, decent if you're going to use Spring Attack or otherwise stay mobile while fighting. CS has the skill tricks but I was never really impressed with anything from that book. The Races Of books have some nice racial substitution levels, once again it's too bad you're so limited on resources.


I'd go with a caster using Complete Arcane: Gnome Bard 9/ Mindbender 1/ Sublime Chord 10, Two-Weapon Fighting, Obtain Familiar, Improved Familiar (DMG), Craft Wand, Double Wand Wielder, maybe pick up some metamagic or Spell Penetration.

Get a Quasit familiar and max UMD so it can use your ranks for wands. Your Bard spells should involve buffing/debuffing and problem-solving, if the Beguiler is lacking in any of those areas try to make up for that. Once you get Sublime Chord you'll be able to throw spells like you mean it, but your old tricks should stay useful through level 20. Use Wands of useful low-level spells like Web, (Mass) Snake's Swiftness, Ray of Stupidity, Ray of Dizziness, (Mass) Curse of Impending Blades, etc. with Double Wand Wielder, and always put the cheaper one in the offhand. You'll still be able to Inspire Courage for +4 from level 8 with Inspirational Boost and Badge of Valor, though you'd probably be better off casting a spell or using a wand. Get the Raiment of the Four item set from MIC, and a Stormfire Ring and any other items that can be used without interrupting Bardic Music.

tcrudisi
2008-12-31, 02:10 AM
I have to agree with one of the people who have already posted - go a route which gives you level 9 spellcasting. A build you might be interested in is bard/rogue/druid/Sublime Chord/Fochluchan Lyrist. You're a mystic theurge that's part druid, part 9th-level spell-hurling bard, and all awesome.

I know you said you didn't want people to advise you not to play a Bard. Here's the thing - Bards are one of my favorite classes. Period. But with a Beguiler in the party, they've got the enhantment spells taken care of. That leaves you with illusions, bardic music, and crappy fighting abilities. I would either find a PrC that diverts your path (hence the Fochlucan Lyrist) or find another character. Since you really want to play a Bard, I'm strongly advising the Fochlucan Lyrist.