PDA

View Full Version : So, what makes an epic, y'know, epic?



insecure
2009-01-01, 02:33 PM
Well, the title of this thread sums the question up pretty nicely, I think. What makes an adventure a good one? Why would you like to play or use a specific adventure, and how do you make one? What brings a well-thought plot above the standards, making it imprinted into the players' mind? Why do you remember that journey in [roleplaying game] three years ago? How do you combine a quest and a dungeon in the best possible way, opening for new opportunities?

So, "what makes a good adventure?" would be the bottom line. Discuss away, I want your feedback!

Flickerdart
2009-01-01, 02:44 PM
You mean epic-level, or epic as in awesome?

Because for the former, there's a quote floating around someone's sig involving the plane of Mechanus transforming into an Inevitable and going after the party. Now that's epic.

And memorable moments arise from defeating awesome foes/solving complex problems in original ways. Nobody will remember that one time Bob the Fighter killed a Fire Giant by hitting it in the shins with a sword for 3 rounds, but the one time Bob the Fighter was launched from a catapult across a canyon and killed a dragon mid-air...that's going to leave a few memories.

Xefas
2009-01-01, 02:52 PM
It needs to be the kind of thing the players are going to tell other people. A good story is not just told once, but retold to others.

Using well-known creatures helps with this. Even if something awesome happened, but it involved two warring mage guilds summoning Thoqquas and Elder Tojanidas to fight each other, then the players are probably going to forgo that story in favor of one that was less awesome, but involved them trash talking a Lich until your rag-tag team of Kobold Allies found his phylactery.

It's just a damper to have to bring the entire story to a halt to explain "Well, they're these phallic fire worms that kinda fly around and have no eyes. And the other ones are these Cthulhu-turtles with claws coming out of their sternum and ass."

All D&D players are going to know what Kobolds and Lichs are. Most non-D&D geeks will know what they are, too. Hell, even some lamefolk might know about them.

Berserk Monk
2009-01-01, 02:56 PM
Battles. Having fights and encounter that, well, that are beatable but are just tough enough to challenge the PCs. From a Munchkin's point of view this is why we roleplay. To fight new stuff, level up, and get booty. I thing I've thought about doing is creating new magical items and weapons. Introducing homebrewed stuff gives your PCs something completely new and original to explore. I've come up with four I want to use in my next campaign:

Death Scythe:
Basically, you know how on a natural twenty you crit, and one some weapons, the crit range is increased to 19-20, or 18-20. Well, the crit range on this +5 Scythe works differently. Whenever you roll a natural even number (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20) and your roll was high enough to overcome the creature's AC, you crit. And this is with a scythe: x4 crit damge. Ow, but having improved critical (scythe) doesn't change anything.

Ring of Resurrection:
Basically, if you ever die and are wearing this ring, you return to life 1d12 hours later. It restores you to full HP, but if you're missing a vital organ or if your body was destroyed, you don't come back. The ring needs to stay on after you die or it won't take affect: you remain dead. Also, once you are resurrected, the ring fades away. It's a useful one shot item.

pair of magical daggers (I haven't come up with a name for them):
These two +3 daggers grant the wielder +2 str, con, dex, and +4 AC. However, when used together (as in duel wielding) the bonuses increase to +6 dex, +4 con and str, and +6 AC. I plan on introducing one dagger first and then having a quest to find the other one.

Dagger of Enhancement:
This +2 dagger increases your size. Well, only if you're male and only one part of the body ('nough said). The dagger works like this: for ever five points of damage you take with the dagger, you become an inch longer. If you crit, size doubles. However, this effect wears off after 24 hours otherwise every male member of the party would try to have the largest trouser titan and spend the whole game stabbing and healing themselves. I just think it would be funny to seduce a barmaid, leave the room briefly, deal a couple dozen points of damage to yourself, reenter the room all scarred with what looks like a python hanging from your waist. How funny would that be to roleplay?

Starbuck_II
2009-01-01, 03:16 PM
Are there only two in existance?

Can I dual weild 4 daggers and get +12 Dex, +8 Con/Str, and +12 AC?
Thri-keen can dual wild 4 weapons.

Flickerdart
2009-01-01, 03:31 PM
Are there only two in existance?

Can I dual weild 4 daggers and get +12 Dex, +8 Con/Str, and +12 AC?
Thri-keen can dual wild 4 weapons.
Enhancement bonuses don't stack. You could clone and wield 200 of those things and still only get the one bonus.

Satyr
2009-01-01, 03:33 PM
A story becomes epic, when the object is interesting enough to capture the player's minds, the roleplaying is enthraling enough to keep the player's up at night even when they would have to work the next day, when the atmosphere is so dense that the players have difficulties to switch back out of their characters and the characters die gloriously in the end.There is no epos with surviving heroes.

The biggest and most common mistake most GM's make is too target their campaign's subject way too high, mistaking "epic" with "world saving plot", killing their narrative off with stale topois.
The other mistake is to focus too much on the style instead of the substance. To tell a solid narrative, a solid core is the alpha and the omega and everything inbetween. Style over substance is for superficial people, and superficiality is pure poison for an epic story.

Jerthanis
2009-01-01, 03:46 PM
Epic is the interdiction of two paths, in my book: Drama that touches on the core of the Human condition, and great power placed in the hands of the PCs.

Gilgamesh is an epic. It is about a man who has the power to challenge the supreme authority of the gods, and follows his adventures killing impossible adversaries... but it's also a story about love of brothers, and about the crushing certain inevitability of death.

If you had just the Drama of losing your brother and roleplaying it out, it might make for an excellent RPG session, but it wouldn't be 'epic'. It would be amateur drama club the game. If you just had heroes jumping off cliffs to tackle dragons out of the sky with their massive magical swords, it's not 'epic', it's 'high octane action move'.

Starbuck_II
2009-01-01, 04:13 PM
Enhancement bonuses don't stack. You could clone and wield 200 of those things and still only get the one bonus.

He never called them enhancement bonuses.

They seemed to be untyped bonuses to stats.

Berserk Monk
2009-01-01, 04:52 PM
Are there only two in existance?

Can I dual weild 4 daggers and get +12 Dex, +8 Con/Str, and +12 AC?
Thri-keen can dual wild 4 weapons.

Well, all the items I listed are artifacts (except the Ring of Resurrection) meaning there is only one of them (or one set with the daggers) in existence. And even if there were more daggers, they wouldn't stack like you said. Hope that helps, and if you want, you (as well as anyone else) can use these items in your campaigns.

Prometheus
2009-01-01, 06:23 PM
As a DM, I had trouble figuring out what was epic and what was not. The first involved assembling an artifact (relatively easily actually) and ended up using it to uncover the mysterious history of this island when they had really only intended to search for loot and treasure. In fact, the artifact actually draws them back in time and they have to stop the island from blowing up (as had been history in the present time) and share it's fate. The find instead that the prophecy had hidden meaning and they had actually been transported to another plane. Understanding the full meaning of the prophecy, now they had to scramble back to their own. I can only surmise that the thing that made it epic was the powerful forces involved in the plot, the mystery of the plot, and the originality of the plot - all unexpectantly and all in a single session.
The second event was when they confronted a powerful demigod who had rallied the lost souls of the past to transport into the land of the living in order to rule over the land. I brake it to them in the final fight that this unknown powerful demigod was actually a former PC who had an obsession with power before is sudden and irrevocable death. This secret-reveal made more of an impact than previous secret-reveals because it a) fit well. b) incorporated a well known character, c) was the final boss fight, and d) involved a betrayal.
In summary, people like high stakes and sudden plot twists. Generating those, however, is another matter.

Kiero
2009-01-01, 06:26 PM
A story becomes epic, when the object is interesting enough to capture the player's minds, the roleplaying is enthraling enough to keep the player's up at night even when they would have to work the next day, when the atmosphere is so dense that the players have difficulties to switch back out of their characters and the characters die gloriously in the end.There is no epos with surviving heroes.

That sounds like players with psychological problems.

Man, I'll never understand people who are really into their immersion.