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Wez Yo
2009-01-02, 03:12 AM
I'm a new player to Dungeons and Dragons, and I'm in a really bad group of people, like they don't concentrate at all or they are to serious. At least most of them are. One of them is especially annoying because he always has to have it his way and stuff like that. I was wondering if I could get some tips to make my game play more fun and enjoyable, instead of making it like a chore

Inhuman Bot
2009-01-02, 03:30 AM
I think looking for another group of players is the best course.

This one doesn't seem to suit your play style.

Malacode
2009-01-02, 03:34 AM
Are you GMing? Or just a player? Just wouuld like to know before I give any advice

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-02, 03:40 AM
I'd agree that leaving could be the best option if talking to them if you can;t identify and solve their problems.

Wez Yo
2009-01-02, 12:41 PM
I'm just a player. My DM/GM asked a similar question on the forums, his user name is Dakiin Magis. I dont know where to get a new group for D&D. I've tried making a group at school, but my principal said no. My group has like, 3 types of people. 2 crazy ones, 2 serious ones, and one thats right in the middle (me). My DM really tries to get us all organized but he usually ends up failing so we just wait until theyre done and continue. lets put it this way, we've been playin for like a month now, and were still on the same adventure, it shouldv'e only taken us like, one or two sessions.

Miraqariftsky
2009-01-02, 12:56 PM
Are you playing on online forums or doing it the classic way on top of a table?

If yer answer's the former, then ye be lucky! GITPF has a grand Play-by-Post sector. There are other sites solely dedicated to the online continuation of tabletop gaming--- try mydndgame.com and myth-weavers.com.

If yer answer's the latter, try talking with your chaps. If nice, quiet, civil, adult discussion doesn't help, then, yes, try looking for or making another group. Try with your friends from outside your school... or try with your friends from in school but say that ye folk convene your games outside school premises thus still obeying the principal's regulations... or ye could try with yer family members...

Heh. I know I taught one of my younger cousins. He's now a grand old GM in his own rights.

Berserk Monk
2009-01-02, 01:04 PM
Give the players what they want but make them work for it: Let the fighter kill a monster with a +5 sword. Let the rogue encounter a rich aristocrat in a bar who is carrying 1,000 gp on their person. Let the wizard study in a library containing all the spells he wants to transfer to his spell. Dungeons & Dragons is about creating a character and seeing how their power increases during each adventure. If you let the PCs get new powerful items/spells/weapon/abilities they will be more confident about using them in battle and they will be more motivated to go out and find better items/spells/weapons/abilities.

Artanis
2009-01-02, 01:12 PM
Give the players what they want but make them work for it: Let the fighter kill a monster with a +5 sword. Let the rogue encounter a rich aristocrat in a bar who is carrying 1,000 gp on their person. Let the wizard study in a library containing all the spells he wants to transfer to his spell. Dungeons & Dragons is about creating a character and seeing how their power increases during each adventure. If you let the PCs get new powerful items/spells/weapon/abilities they will be more confident about using them in battle and they will be more motivated to go out and find better items/spells/weapons/abilities.
He's just a player, not the DM.

Wez Yo
2009-01-02, 01:20 PM
Lol. No, i don't play it online. I just play on top of the table. I don't know how to ask other people if they want to play, im kinda on the shy side. I seriously doubt that any of my family members would want to play this. Most people in my school think its really nerdy and if they found out that i played it, they would make fun of me...probably... but i did show that post about giving the people have what they want to my DM, and he said he might try it. Ill get back to you next session

only1doug
2009-01-02, 01:46 PM
I'm just a player. My DM/GM asked a similar question on the forums, his user name is Dakiin Magis. I dont know where to get a new group for D&D. I've tried making a group at school, but my principal said no. My group has like, 3 types of people. 2 crazy ones, 2 serious ones, and one thats right in the middle (me). My DM really tries to get us all organized but he usually ends up failing so we just wait until theyre done and continue. lets put it this way, we've been playin for like a month now, and were still on the same adventure, it shouldv'e only taken us like, one or two sessions.

It's up to the GM but what he needs to do is ditch one of the crazy players (whichever causes next distraction) and warn the 2nd that he's next to go.
continue play with remaining players and ditch 2nd crazy if he gets sidetracked. after a couple of weeks you can let the excluded player back but be ready to kick him out again if he misbehaves again.
The player who always has to have his way is again a GM problem, the solution is for the GM to tell him to stop trying to be GM. ("I'm GM, i determine the rules. don't argue the rules with me or rocks will fall").

Salty
2009-01-02, 04:04 PM
It's up to the GM but what he needs to do is ditch one of the crazy players (whichever causes next distraction) and warn the 2nd that he's next to go.
continue play with remaining players and ditch 2nd crazy if he gets sidetracked. after a couple of weeks you can let the excluded player back but be ready to kick him out again if he misbehaves again.
The player who always has to have his way is again a GM problem, the solution is for the GM to tell him to stop trying to be GM. ("I'm GM, i determine the rules. don't argue the rules with me or rocks will fall").

Similar to what I was thinking, I just think that a warning should be given first to avoid being unfair. The only problem our host has with this is that if one of those members would leave, odds are 1 or 2 others would stop coming as well, and I haven't been able to talk him into it.

Btw, I'm in the group as well, and I'm hoping that my groupmates will begin listening to my advice after hearing you agree to it.

Prometheus
2009-01-02, 06:09 PM
Maybe this might help: What is the age group we are looking at here? (If you feel uncomfortable volunteering personal information, we just a range of ages may help).

Salty
2009-01-02, 07:41 PM
Maybe this might help: What is the age group we are looking at here? (If you feel uncomfortable volunteering personal information, we just a range of ages may help).

Teenage, which helps account for the lack of interest.

Knaight
2009-01-02, 08:15 PM
I wouldn't say that, since it seems that most people who start gaming do as either pre-teens or teenagers, or when older siblings are pre-teens or teenagers.

My advice would be to start a D&D group up with friends from school, not necessarily at school, and not as any official club, and just circumvent faculty that decide to be irritating. If you have any younger siblings try to get them to play. You can easily make a small group with yourself, a friend, a sibling, and a friends sibling, and if you and a friend are playing in a really small group younger siblings will probably try and find a way in.

Prometheus
2009-01-02, 09:43 PM
Teenage, which helps account for the lack of interest.Teenager are actually good choices for D&D. They are old enough to be managed and reasoned with, yet still with enough free time to regularly commit to a game. If you had said pre-teen, I might have said "uh-huh, good luck with that".

Thrud
2009-01-02, 10:33 PM
Disruptive players are a problem that virtually every DM has to deal with from time to time. Handling them is the GM's job, not yours. Unfortunately your GM is having difficulty doing it, which is probably due to a lack of experience on his part.

Summarily ditching them is probably not a good idea, especially if they are friends out of the game. That can cause hurt feelings IRL, and no game is worth causing RL issues over. The first and easiest way to deal with them is to take them aside before a game starts and simply flat out telling them that they are ruining your good time, and the good time of a couple of other players. Perhaps they just don't realize that that is what they are doing. Everyone has a different interest in playing D&D and I have had plenty of games that were more an excuse to sit around and BS with my friends than to actually achieve anything in the game. I had a great deal of fun in those games too, but only if that was what I was expecting. If I were expecting a 'serious' game then that kind of behavior would be disruptive.

Sit them down and point out to them exactly what you want out of the game and what they are doing to disrupt it. Hopefully then they will get the idea and either stop being disruptive or leave to find a game more to their liking. Effective communication can go a long way to avoiding disruptions. Just make sure that you tell them that the way they are playing the game is stopping several of you from having a good time.

If they go on being disruptive don't try to fix it in game. This is a common mistake amongst new GMs. Don't assign penalties to their characters, or make rocks fall on their heads, or anything else like that. Trying to fix RL problems in game will never actually achieve anything because they are not taking the game seriously in the first place. So why would they care what you are doing to their characters?

Once you have explained exactly what you want to get out of the game find out exactly what they want. Try to meet them halfway. Maybe there is something simple that can be done by the rest of you to make them have more fun too.

To summarize, everyone is different. Just because you think they are disruptive doesn't mean that they are doing it on purpose just to be disruptive. Or to be jerks. Most people don't really act that way.

Just a few thoughts.

Edit -
BTW, this is also a very important fact to know when in a long term relationship. So learning those skills early at the D&D table will bear much sweeter fruit later on.
:smallbiggrin:

Wez Yo
2009-01-02, 10:49 PM
Wow....that was really in depth, and I think it'll work. I'll ask my DM to do that. although heres another problem.....kinda off the toic...but whenever I make a character, i stick with it for a while, then i want to make another one, but i dont want to keep bugging my friends about it. like now I'm an elf ranger, but i want to be a cleric. since im a new player, idk how to multi class, and itll probably be really complicated. Ive never gotten a character above 4th level, because i either lose my sheets or i make another person. (im a new player)

Thrud
2009-01-02, 11:03 PM
Look at it as a challenge. To my mind the true essence of D&D has never been how powerful your character is, what artifacts he has, or how high a level he achieves. It is playing the character WELL.

To that end you need to get inside the head of your character. At the moment you seem to me (and forgive me if I am wrong here) to me more interested in the gadgets and doodads (powers and special abilities) of the character class, rather than how and why the character him/herself uses them.

I did this for one of my players once who was having similar problems to you. I asked him if I could create a character for him who would be invoved in some way in the plot. Then I asked the player to give me a detailed character background. This particular guy had difficulty writing so I sat down with him and asked him to tell me all about the character, letting him invent whatever he wanted. Family, childhood friends, name of town he grew up in. Occasionally I would add a few things that worked for my world. This made the player much more invested in his CHARACTER rather than simply in what the character could do. I made him a copy of the notes and he was able to use them throughout the game to know how the character was thinking, until he didn't need them any more because he was immersed in the character.

Now part of this is on the DM here, and it doesn't have to be exactly what I did. But at the very least try writing out (or discussing with the DM) a detailed character background, so that you can feel something for the character himself and invest yourself in the character rather than simply in the mechanics involved.

(I actually use something like this in every game I run now. I make time after character creation to have a one on one with each player to find out about the character rather than just have a piece of paper with number on it. People who are comfortable writing I allow to write out a detailed background although I sometimes have to make a few changes to fit them into my game world.)

Hope that helps a little.

Egiam
2009-01-02, 11:37 PM
I dont know where to get a new group for D&D. I've tried making a group at school, but my principal said no.

Huh? Your Principal? Ok... from now on try to keep this between friends. I my experience making a club of some sort or advertising does not work.

EDIT:

My advice would be to start a D&D group up with friends from school, not necessarily at school, and not as any official club, and just circumvent faculty that decide to be irritating. If you have any younger siblings try to get them to play. You can easily make a small group with yourself, a friend, a sibling, and a friends sibling, and if you and a friend are playing in a really small group younger siblings will probably try and find a way in.
(I did not realize someone already posted this)

I would recommend keeping an eye open in other activities for schoolmates that are possible DND'ers. Eventually you will find someone that has the maturity and respect to join. Then watch their siblings. Usually in (I'm assuming now) grade or middle school bro's and sis's have similar schedules; if one can show up, the other can too, making schedules EZ.

Also keep your group to 4 players (assuming you are playing 3.5 edition, if 4.0, 5). It's the magic number. Easy to schedule, and its the number were everyone can participate without getting slaughtered.


Hint: listen to Thrud, he has great advice.

Wez Yo
2009-01-03, 12:40 AM
that he does, its all really good advice, ty for all of it, although.... our group is breaking apart becasue they never want to play. they always say like: maybe later, or, just a sec, or, after this level, or somthin lie that, and whenever we do play, we argue like, all the time, our battles take forever and a day to do, and we hardly level. like this one time, my friend was in a bar, and he poced a hole in the beer kegs, and later, i came by. I saw it (this was really early in the morning, so i wasnt thinking straight) anyways, i lit the bar on fire and got myself arrested. (obviously) the rest of the adventurers were starting to talk to this guy to start a quest, and the reward was 1000gp each, 500 in advance, 500 after. since i wasnt there, this was all out of game knowlege, and my friend said, and I quote, "Theres this one guy in our group, hes not here right now, but, dont tell him about the whole reward thing, i dont think he deserves it." that really pissed me off, because i only started out with 20 gp and i didnt have enough to buy anything, i had to loot a bow from a dead body. (im an elf ranger btw) and my friend says that since its out of game knowlege, i dont get payed for this at all. (hes a rouge, btw)....i dont really see how thats making us fall apart, kinda a bad example, but anyways, everybody wants to do somthing else, we always argue about somthing. I dont really know how to explain it, but its not a very fun time for me, some people are trying to get it done, and others are jsut stalling, off doing there own thing, so what im thinking of doing is making a secret d&d group with some of the serious players bu tstill creative, but thats leads to only me and one other person...im mortally confused on what to do... (were playing in the 3.5 edition, btw)

Dervag
2009-01-03, 01:03 AM
Wow....that was really in depth, and I think it'll work.A lot of people here have had problems a lot like the one you've got, so it's easy to get advice on that kind of thing here.


I'll ask my DM to do that. although heres another problem.....kinda off the toic...but whenever I make a character, i stick with it for a while, then i want to make another one, but i dont want to keep bugging my friends about it. like now I'm an elf ranger, but i want to be a cleric. since im a new player, idk how to multi class, and itll probably be really complicated. Ive never gotten a character above 4th level, because i either lose my sheets or i make another person. (im a new player)Making photocopies of your character sheet will help protect you from losing them.

As for making new characters so much that you never get attached to a new one... my answer is about what Thrud said.

Think about the character's personality. My understanding is that the key to having a long-running character is to give that character a personality that is interesting, so that they take on a life of their own. If it's done right, you'll be more interested in the continuing adventures of Max the fighter than you will be in seeing what playing a cleric is like.

I mean, D&D is going to be around a long time. You've got years and years to play different kinds of characters, so there's no hurry.
___________


that he does, its all really good advice, ty for all of it, although.... our group is breaking apart becasue they never want to play. they always say like: maybe later, or, just a sec, or, after this level, or somthin lie that, and whenever we do play, we argue like, all the time, our battles take forever and a day to do, and we hardly level.Is your DM interested? Having a DM who's interested is really important, because while you can sometimes play with a player missing, you can never play without a DM.

If your DM is interested, then your problem is finding a better set of players. There have to be people around the school who won't jump all over you if they find out you play D&D. Probably, they're the ones everybody already thinks is a nerd. Maybe you could find people who already play games that are sort of related to D&D, like World of Warcraft.


like this one time, my friend was in a bar, and he poced a hole in the beer kegs, and later, i came by. I saw it (this was really early in the morning, so i wasnt thinking straight) anyways, i lit the bar on fire and got myself arrested.I'm surprised your character could set beer on fire, but what the heck, if it's funny...


(obviously) the rest of the adventurers were starting to talk to this guy to start a quest, and the reward was 1000gp each, 500 in advance, 500 after. since i wasnt there, this was all out of game knowlege, and my friend said, and I quote, "Theres this one guy in our group, hes not here right now, but, dont tell him about the whole reward thing, i dont think he deserves it." that really pissed me off,Wow. That's pretty low of him to do that. The DM should probably take steps when something like that happens, because it breaks up the party. And since the reward is being given out to each person, it's not even like the rogue gets more money by cheating your character.


I dont really know how to explain it, but its not a very fun time for me, some people are trying to get it done, and others are jsut stalling, off doing there own thing, so what im thinking of doing is making a secret d&d group with some of the serious players bu tstill creative, but thats leads to only me and one other person...im mortally confused on what to do... (were playing in the 3.5 edition, btw)Hm. Do you mean that there are two serious people, or two serious players plus a DM?

Wez Yo
2009-01-03, 01:36 AM
i mean we have 2 serious players, (me and salty, scroll up and ull see him, a weird octopus guy,) and my DM. sometimes i get crazy, but come on, who cant get a bit crazy? but ya, this is all very good advice, and tyvm for all of it, but i dont have another DM session untill, like, 2pm or somthin...and also, since i dont have a players guide, what are the classes and races of 3.5? i cant find them on the internet

Dervag
2009-01-03, 03:03 AM
Look here (http://www.d20srd.org/), at d20srd.org. The System Reference Document tells you most of what you'll really need to know.

herrhauptmann
2009-01-03, 03:06 AM
i mean we have 2 serious players, (me and salty, scroll up and ull see him, a weird octopus guy,) and my DM. sometimes i get crazy, but come on, who cant get a bit crazy? but ya, this is all very good advice, and tyvm for all of it, but i dont have another DM session untill, like, 2pm or somthin...and also, since i dont have a players guide, what are the classes and races of 3.5? i cant find them on the internet

http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm On the left you'll find all the Players Handbook stuff

edit: Dang ninjas... Is there a ninja emote for this sorta thing?

Leper Master
2009-01-03, 06:05 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm On the left you'll find all the Players Handbook stuff

edit: Dang ninjas... Is there a ninja emote for this sorta thing?

yes, Its called. . . FACEPALM!!! or head desk. . .

back to the issue, I recommend chatting to the DM as he is mainly responsible for PC behavior. If things are getting too out of hand, the DM should talk to the players (like a drug rehab circle) and get the players to voice out what they like in D&D and what they would like to see more of.
Trust me, seven years of DMing and PCing have lead me to the conclusion that the worst thing is a group that can't co operate, inside and outside of the game.

Edit: Dang commas.

Egiam
2009-01-03, 03:30 PM
I had a situation like the one you are relating, except I was lucky and it solved itself, because I had a character that filled a necessary role in the group. To fix this try a marine style "never leave a comrade behind" pact, to keep the characters from marooning you. Also have a reason why the characters are together. In one of my games, I play a human Conjurer thats travelling w/ a H-orc Barbarian. "In character", he travels with me because I was willing to give him a chance before running away from his ugliness (8 charisma). Check oots for more ideas (even Belkar-Roy).

Also, I have an idea. Have the P.C.s come up with adventures with the DM (hear me out please!). This would be like Roy and his legacy. A real example of this is the afore mentioned H-orc. Supposedly he was framed for a crime in his village a was banished. At lvl 5 he plans to return with companions to exact revenge. This keeps the Players engrossed in their characters when their "backstory" influences the present (just an idea to share).

Dervag
2009-01-03, 05:47 PM
8 Charisma isn't that ugly, is it?

Wez Yo
2009-01-04, 08:20 PM
idk, i usually have to have salty tell me what the stats are and what who needs them more lol

Knaight
2009-01-04, 08:46 PM
One small request. Can you try to capitalize, punctuate, and otherwise render your posts so that they look more like something you would turn in in English class than something seen on the more illiterate parts of some online games? I want to help, but deciphering some of those posts is asking too much.

Lord Zentei
2009-01-04, 09:03 PM
I'm just a player. My DM/GM asked a similar question on the forums, his user name is Dakiin Magis. I dont know where to get a new group for D&D. I've tried making a group at school, but my principal said no. My group has like, 3 types of people. 2 crazy ones, 2 serious ones, and one thats right in the middle (me). My DM really tries to get us all organized but he usually ends up failing so we just wait until theyre done and continue. lets put it this way, we've been playin for like a month now, and were still on the same adventure, it shouldv'e only taken us like, one or two sessions.

Other than eliminating disruptive players, or getting a new group/members, you could have your DM give out XP for role-playing and completion of storyline objectives as opposed to killing monsters. That way, PCs won't advance unless they pay attention to the story they are supposed to be participating in. Have your DM reward players differently: those who actually participate get awards, those who are disruptive get less or even nothing.

Another possibility: in the original 1st edition DMG, Gygax suggested rating people on a scale for their performance (say, on a scale of 1-4), this represented the fraction of the total "normal" reward for adventuring. So, a player who got a roleplaying rating of 3 earned 3/4 of the normal XP award he would optimally have earned.

Wez Yo
2009-01-05, 05:25 PM
hes doing that, but it hasnt really worked...

Wez Yo
2009-01-05, 08:11 PM
One small request. Can you try to capitalize, punctuate, and otherwise render your posts so that they look more like something you would turn in in English class than something seen on the more illiterate parts of some online games? I want to help, but deciphering some of those posts is asking too much.

sorry, I'm just so used to it, because I post in other forums that do that, I'll try to stop...no guarantees..

Dervag
2009-01-06, 12:38 AM
sorry, I'm just so used to it, because I post in other forums that do that, I'll try to stop...no guarantees..Very few people will think less of you for writing in grammatical English. And when you have a habit of writing that way, it gets a lot easier to write that way for important real life stuff like essays. It worked for me.

If you only change one thing, use paragraphs. Paragraphs are good. They help a lot, because putting some whitespace between each block of ideas helps the reader concentrate on one important idea at a time.