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MageSparrowhawk
2009-01-02, 08:19 PM
I've had this PrC on this site in the past (quite a while ago in fact) but since then I've messed around with it a fair amount, and I was wondering what people think of it now.

And so everyone knows, this is not a variant of the Dragon Disciple. Nor is it a fast way to get into the epic progression of it.

Half-dragon Ascendant
Hit Die: d12
Requirements
Race: Half-Dragon
B.A.B.: +5
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 10 ranks, Intimidate 5 ranks, Sense motive 5 ranks
Feats: Dragon Breath and one or both Draconic Wings and Draconic Tail
Spells: Spontaneously cast 2nd level arcane spells
Special: You must find and spend one full day communing with one of your dragon relatives (parent is best); or at least a dragon of your variety of adult age or older

Class Skills
Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Search, Sense motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use magic device; plus any noted in your dragon's type.
Skill points per level: (6+int)

The Half-Dragon Ascendant must have at least half of its spells known of the same subtype as its dragon type (e.g. a half red dragon must know more fire spells than any other type) or spells with a draconic theme (list to be added soon).

Half-Dragon Ascendant
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+1|
+1|
+1|Dragon Essence, Draconic Familiar, Frightful Interaction, Alternate Form|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+1|Scaled Armor, Lesser Keen Senses|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+2|Spell Resistance, Damage Reduction|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2|Frightful Presence|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3|Improved Breath Weapon|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+3|Additional Limb(s)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+3|Greater Keen Senses|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+6|
+4|
+4|
+4|Attack Form Improvement|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+6|
+4|
+4|
+4|Improved Natural-Weapons|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+5|Draconic Ascension|+1 level of existing spellcasting class [/table]

Dragon Essence: Each level of Half-dragon Ascendant you gain is also treated as a racial hit die. This increases your HD based abilities accordingly. Also, after every five levels you must return to the dragon relative you qualified for this class with for a number of consecutive days equal to your class level. Until this is completed, no more levels in Half-dragon Ascendant may be gained. This applies past 20th level.

Draconic Familiar: If you have a familliar, it gains the draconic template. Add half of your Half-dragon Ascendant level to your effective level when determining the abilities your familiar gains. If you do not already possess a familiar, this feature does not allow you to gain one.

Frightful interaction: Add half your class level to intimidate checks, but subtract half your class level from diplomacy and gather information checks. These only function if you look like a half dragon or have been seen before by the person you are interacting with. You can scare people into doing what you want, but you have a harder time relating to them.

Alternate Form: You can take the appearance of your non-dragon parent as a free action for as long as you desire any number of times per day. You appear–for all intents and purposes–a creature of your non-dragon heritage, though demonstrating superhuman(oid) feats of strength or using your breath weapon may dissuade people from believing your disguise. This is a polymorph effect.

Scaled Armor: When you reach second level, your skin starts growing heavy scales over the course of the next eight hours you sleep, but then the scales separate from your body, creating a suit of skin-tight, form-fitting armor (that you are proficient with). The armor provides an armor bonus equal to 4+class level, has a -2 armor check penalty, a +6 max Dex bonus, no arcane spell failure chance, and is considered light armor. You may sleep in this armor despite the check penalty. The removal of this armor is much like sloughing it off (a full round action), however donning it again takes another full eight hours of rest to regrow it. During that time it provides only ˝ its normal bonus, grants a 50% arcane spell failure chance and an additional -3 armor check penalty. It cannot be enchanted.

Lesser Keen Senses: Your darkvision range increases to 90', and You gain Blindsense out to 30'.

Spell Resistance: You gain spell resistance equal to 15 plus your racial HD.

Damage Reduction: You gain damage reduction/magic equal to your racial HD.

Frightful Presence: You gain a frightful presence like that of a dragon. It only affects creatures of less HD than you, and functions out 30' per 3 levels. A creature who fails on a will save (DC 10+your racial HD+your Cha modifier) and has 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds, and those with 5 or more are shaken for 4d6 rounds. On a success, the creature is unaffected by your frightful presence for the next 24 hours. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Improved Breath Weapon: Your breath weapon now deals damage one die larger (6d8 to 6d10) and the save increases by 3.

Additional Limb(s): You gain either Draconic Wings or Draconic Tail, whichever you don't already posses. This is despite normally being only able to take these feats at first level.

Greater Keen Senses: Your Darkvision and Blindsense ranges each increase by 30', to a total of 120' and 60' respectively.

Attack Form Improvement: You gain a tail sweep which affects a half circle around you, out to 5 feet every 5 levels. You also gain 2 wing slams, which are bludgeoning attacks for 1d4+1/2 Str. Each of these are treated as secondary attacks

Improved Natural Weapons: All your natural weapons are treated as one size category larger. This does not grant you any extra attack forms.

Draconic Ascension: Once you reach 10th level, you are considered a full dragon. This means you can start taking feats, prestige classes, etc. that only true dragons meet the requirements for. You may also no longer take any form or appearance other than that of a creature with the dragon type or dragon-blooded subtype besides your Alternate Form ability.

In addition, you gain the ability to take on the Appearance of a full dragon of your type once per day for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. (Specific stats to follow).


How does that look? I'm thinking about throwing in/switching out some of the abilities, but I'm not really sure about that atm. I'm also trying to tack onto the capstone ability some way of becoming a dragon (I was thinking Old or Very Old?) of your type for a couple rounds every day (probably your charisma modifier). I'm just not sure how to go about doing that...

Any help is appreciated. :mitd:

Lert, A.
2009-01-02, 10:20 PM
The Half-Dragon Ascendant must have at least half of its spells known of the same subtype as its dragon type (e.g. a half red dragon must know more fire spells than any other type).

This is pretty harsh. Prerequisites of being a spontaneous caster and then limiting the number of useful spells known. Kinda cruel.


Dragon Essence: Each level of Half-dragon Ascendant you gain is also treated as a racial hit die. This increases your HD based abilities accordingly. Also, after every five levels you must return to the dragon relative you qualified for this class with for a number of consecutive days equal to your class level. Until this is completed, no more levels in Half-dragon Ascendant may be gained.

First part is fine, but the second part doesn't make a lot of sense. Okay, you have to commune with your ancestors (or something), but the every 5 levels doesn't work. So you can take the tenth level, but you can't attain a higher non-existent level? Probably not what was intended, but a re-write of the wording would help.


Draconic Familiar: If you have a familliar, it gains the draconic template. Add half of your Half-dragon Ascendant level to your effective level when determining the abilities your familiar gains.

Sounds okay, but what if your character doesn't have a familiar. Does he now gain one?


Frightful interaction: Add half your class level to intimidate checks, but subtract half your class level from diplomacy and gather information checks. These only function if you look like a half dragon or have been seen before by the person you are interacting with. You can scare people into doing what you want, but you have a harder time relating to them.

Again, a little harsh. Skill bonuses rarely break a class, and we're looking at a maximum of +5 which is not a great deal. Why try to cripple your character? Keeping the bonuses is fine by itself.


Alternate Form: You can take the appearance of your non-dragon parent as a free action for as long as you desire any number of times per day. You appear–for all intents and purposes–a creature of your non-dragon heritage, though demonstrating superhuman(oid) feats of strength or using your breath weapon may dissuade people from believing your disguise. This is a polymorph effect.

So, you can visibly lose your template to gain a possible bonus to disguise checks? Why not just allow a bonus to Disguise and be done with it?


Scaled Armor: When you reach second level, your skin starts growing heavy scales over the course of the next eight hours you sleep, but then the scales separate from your body, creating a suit of skin-tight, form-fitting armor (that you are proficient with). The armor provides an armor bonus equal to two plus your class level, has a -2 armor check penalty, a +6 max Dex bonus, no arcane spell failure chance, and is considered light armor. You may sleep in this armor despite the check penalty. The removal of this armor is much like sloughing it off (a full round action), however donning it again takes another full eight hours of rest to regrow it. During that time it provides only ˝ its normal bonus, grants a 50% arcane spell failure chance and an additional -3 armor check penalty. It cannot be enchanted.

Remind me to never remove this armor. I would just use the dragonscale husk alternate class feature, without ASF. Lower the bonus to AC a bit if you like.


Improved Natural Weapons: All your natural weapons are treated as one size category larger. This does not grant you any extra attack forms.

Fairly standard for this type of class. OK.


Spell Resistance: You gain spell resistance equal to 15 plus your racial HD.

Seems not too bad. These will likely be your only racial HD, so why not?


Damage Reduction: You gain damage reduction/magic equal to your racial HD.

So long as you can't gain a cheese ability somewhere else to get extra RHD it's not bad, but kinda stepping on the barbarians toes. 1/2 RHD is probably fine, maybe make full DR a capstone ability.


Blindsense: You gain blindsense out to 60'.

Not game breaking. Sure, go for it.


Improved Breath Weapon: Your breath weapon now deals damage one die larger (6d8 to 6d10) and the save increases by 3.

Again, seems fine.


Frightful Presence: You gain a frightful presence like that of a dragon. It only affects creatures of less HD than you, and functions out 30' per 3 levels. A creature who fails on a will save (DC 10+your racial HD+your Cha modifier) and has 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds, and those with 5 or more are shaken for 4d6 rounds. On a success, the creature is unaffected by your frightful presence for the next 24 hours. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Should get this ability at some point anyways. Good.


Attack Form Improvement: If you have wings or a tail, you gain an additional ability based off of which feat(s) you have. If you have a tail, you gain a tail sweep which affects a half circle around you, out to 5 feet every 5 levels. Wings grant you 2 wing slams, which are bludgeoning attacks for 1d4+1/2 Str.

Nice.


Draconic Ascension: Once you reach 10th level, you are considered a full dragon. This means you can start taking feats, prestige classes, etc. that only true dragons meet the requirements for. You may also no longer take any form or appearance other than that of a creature with the dragon type or dragon-blooded subtype besides your Alternate Form ability.

How does that look? I'm thinking about throwing in/switching out some of the abilities, but I'm not really sure about that atm. I'm also trying to tack onto the capstone ability some way of becoming a dragon (I was thinking Old or Very Old?) of your type for a couple rounds every day (probably your charisma modifier). I'm just not sure how to go about doing that...

Capstone seems a little off right now, but if you add the limited polymorph idea it would be better.

Good work. Carry on.

MageSparrowhawk
2009-01-02, 11:38 PM
whoo! someone who likes this! :biggrin:

now...onto the line by line...

the casting is supposed to be a little restrictive....then again, I might add back in the two blank levels of spellcasting to compensate...

originally this was a 15 level PrC...but I wanted to add in an in-game penalty that was a little out of the ordinary...then when I thought about it, I realized that doing this too often would derail any kind of traveling-based plot for a game. so I limited it to once at the beginning, once in the middle, and once if you want to head into epic levels...(which I may eventually write up)

you just don't get one. there are similar precedents in other PrCs that progress the familiar.

eh...this PrC was originally quite a bit overpowered, and so I tried to throw in as many balancing factors as I could...besides, it is kind of an in-game reminder that you're not just a normal PC with super strength and cool abilities.

because disguise checks can't really cover up wings and a tail. I figured this would be a flavorful and efficient way to allow an obviously monstrous character to interact (more) normally.

I took a look at the Draconic husk Class feature....and I kinda like mine better. The other one just feels (sorry for the pun) too clunky for this PrC. +2 max dex? -4 ACP? eh. I'd say the lack of energy resistance from mine is a fair trade anyway.

*nod*

Yeah, racial HD at 20th will (should) only bring this up to 25. Not too hard to bypass for a full caster, but at least useful against partial casters.

I see your point, however, this is DR/magic. which means it's almost to the point of being flavor more than anything else (basically everyone will have a way to bypass this by the time you get it).

Wyrmlings have this. I kinda figured that this PrC should provide it too...maybe an increase to darkvision too? 120 ft is pretty standard for dragons.

*nod*
*nod*
*nod*

hmmm...I'm still not sure how the capstone polymorph ability should work though...in some cases your normal strength might be higher than this provides for...so...how about you gain abilities kinda like the Shapeshift class feature? Gain the size category, special stuff like crush, slight bump to stuff like DR, SR, breath weapon, etc. and some temporary HP. probably should leave you winded at the end..."too much dragony-ness!" *slump*

I was also thinking about adding in somewhere (blank level at 8th? trade something up higher?) that they would receive the other requirement feat (tail if they have wings, wings if they have a tail). but I'm not sure....

so...y/n? (and thanks for the input)

Lert, A.
2009-01-03, 01:29 AM
whoo! someone who likes this! :biggrin:


Just don't let it go to your head, son.


the casting is supposed to be a little restrictive....then again, I might add back in the two blank levels of spellcasting to compensate...

Since you are essentially creating an evoker, yeah, maybe you should. An alternative would be to keep the dead levels, but let the spell selection include a single spell per level from one of the dragon's cleric domains. Some dragons don't list their domains though so a "Or a spell that fits thematically with your dragons nature, as approved by your DM." for a little flexibility.


originally this was a 15 level PrC...but I wanted to add in an in-game penalty that was a little out of the ordinary...then when I thought about it, I realized that doing this too often would derail any kind of traveling-based plot for a game. so I limited it to once at the beginning, once in the middle, and once if you want to head into epic levels...(which I may eventually write up)

If epic levels were your intentions, then it works. I would just word it as such.


you just don't get one. there are similar precedents in other PrCs that progress the familiar.

Kay. Just wanted to see where you're going with this. A small entry of "If you do not already possess a familiar, this feature does not allow you to gain one." would be nice.


eh...this PrC was originally quite a bit overpowered, and so I tried to throw in as many balancing factors as I could...besides, it is kind of an in-game reminder that you're not just a normal PC with super strength and cool abilities.

Just saying. Skill bonuses are more overrated than they would appear. All I'm saying.


because disguise checks can't really cover up wings and a tail. I figured this would be a flavorful and efficient way to allow an obviously monstrous character to interact (more) normally.

Flavor-wise, sure, sounds okay.


I took a look at the Draconic husk Class feature....and I kinda like mine better. The other one just feels (sorry for the pun) too clunky for this PrC. +2 max dex? -4 ACP? eh. I'd say the lack of energy resistance from mine is a fair trade anyway.

My biggest problem was with the huge ASF penalties when growing the armor. Cut those back a bit and no more issues with this (from me).


Yeah, racial HD at 20th will (should) only bring this up to 25. Not too hard to bypass for a full caster, but at least useful against partial casters.

Good. Hopefully, nobody else has a racial HD class for dragons out there. If this is a problem then it can just become a per class level thing.


I see your point, however, this is DR/magic. which means it's almost to the point of being flavor more than anything else (basically everyone will have a way to bypass this by the time you get it).

Still not so crazy about taking the spotlight away from the melee tough guy classes, but it's your call after all.


Wyrmlings have this. I kinda figured that this PrC should provide it too...maybe an increase to darkvision too? 120 ft is pretty standard for dragons.

If you want to, maybe slot in blindsense at 5th like you have it, and the other at 7th. It will be usable, but won't overshadow your existing class feature.


hmmm...I'm still not sure how the capstone polymorph ability should work though...in some cases your normal strength might be higher than this provides for...so...how about you gain abilities kinda like the Shapeshift class feature? Gain the size category, special stuff like crush, slight bump to stuff like DR, SR, breath weapon, etc. and some temporary HP. probably should leave you winded at the end..."too much dragony-ness!" *slump*

Shapeshift would be fine.


I was also thinking about adding in somewhere (blank level at 8th? trade something up higher?) that they would receive the other requirement feat (tail if they have wings, wings if they have a tail). but I'm not sure....

I would say 8 would be fine.


so...y/n? (and thanks for the input)

Y

I would also mention that I'm surprised that you don't have a dragon's breath weapon progression worked in there. As it is you are still looking at once/day.

arguskos
2009-01-03, 01:34 AM
On the spells/known thing, some of the more esoteric dragons have strange subtypes, which could make that restriction rough. I'd really suggest you give them better casting, or relax that restriction somewhat. It just seems... mean, I guess.

Other than that, it looks like a great class. If I ran more "dragon-y" games, I'd totally use this. :smallbiggrin:

MageSparrowhawk
2009-01-03, 01:52 AM
Just don't let it go to your head, son.
:biggrin:


Since you are essentially creating an evoker, yeah, maybe you should. An alternative would be to keep the dead levels, but let the spell selection include a single spell per level from one of the dragon's cleric domains. Some dragons don't list their domains though so a "Or a spell that fits thematically with your dragons nature, as approved by your DM." for a little flexibility.

Hmm...I still want to keep some kind of spell-restriction on it....how about spells of your subtype or with a draconic theme? (the sorcerer only spells, ones that are usually 'dragon only' etc...I should probably come up with a list)


If epic levels were your intentions, then it works. I would just word it as such.

hmmm...ok, sounds good...


Kay. Just wanted to see where you're going with this. A small entry of "If you do not already possess a familiar, this feature does not allow you to gain one." would be nice.

got'cha. will change.


Just saying. Skill bonuses are more overrated than they would appear. All I'm saying.

*shrug* how would you suggest we mechanically represent people being inherently opposed to normal interaction with the character?


Flavor-wise, sure, sounds okay.

cool


My biggest problem was with the huge ASF penalties when growing the armor. Cut those back a bit and no more issues with this (from me).

huh...I just threw it in because I thought it was too good as it was...I guess I can either reduce the penalties or else increase the advantages...


Good. Hopefully, nobody else has a racial HD class for dragons out there. If this is a problem then it can just become a per class level thing.

sure, sounds good


Still not so crazy about taking the spotlight away from the melee tough guy classes, but it's your call after all.

this is supposed to be a gish class, and therefore should be able to do some melee goodness. I guess I can see your point, but I still want to bring up just how unlikely it actually will come into play.


If you want to, maybe slot in blindsense at 5th like you have it, and the other at 7th. It will be usable, but won't overshadow your existing class feature.

hmmm...I might split it into two abilities...one that gives Darkvision 90' and blindsense 30', and the next that brings the Darkvision up to 120' and blindsense up to 60'


Shapeshift would be fine.

hmmm *goes to do a sample writeup*


I would say 8 would be fine.

kk *changes*


Y

:biggrin:


I would also mention that I'm surprised that you don't have a dragon's breath weapon progression worked in there. As it is you are still looking at once/day.

heh...one of the requirement feats is dragon breath, which is only available at 6th or above, and grants the ability to use your normal breath weapon every 1d4 rounds. I didn't forget. :cool:

@ArgusKos: hmmm...I think I will increase the number of available spells for that category (see above) and give them those two caster levels back.

Leper Master
2009-02-07, 01:54 AM
my only question is does the Scale Armor Removes any Natural armor bonus gained or is the the Armor Natural Armor??

MageSparrowhawk
2009-02-07, 03:11 AM
The scale armor is not natural armor. It counts as an armor bonus, and your natural armor stacks.

MageSparrowhawk
2009-03-03, 04:57 PM
I've placed this up for the PrC contest here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105490). It's more complete, but if anyone still has suggestions/recommendations, please say so.

thanks for reading! :smallbiggrin: