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View Full Version : The life expectancy of PBP games.



BizzaroStormy
2009-01-03, 02:01 AM
It seems that with the amount of time people spend on the internet, that a PBP game should be more or less reliable but it seems to me that every game seems to be going great, then die all of the sudden.

Anyone know what might be the cause? I realize that people have lives but should it really be THAT difficult to post at least once every three days?

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-03, 02:07 AM
Boredom.

Real life interference.

Short attention span.

I've been in about three PbP games ever that lasted more than two months, and even those have had their hiatuses and downtimes.

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-03, 02:10 AM
Sometimes everyone is waiting for someone else to post next.

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-03, 03:14 AM
I'm hosting one now and it seems to have died as well.:smallfrown: Admittedly, I need 1 person to post to continue it.

Miraqariftsky
2009-01-03, 03:19 AM
I'm sorry, I'm sorry! I got called off by my duties!

And... these things don't "die" in "three days", chief. They're resurrected on the third day. :smallwink: Yesh, I'm writing the post thither as I speak!

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-03, 03:25 AM
I was thinking about someone else to be honest. (The player in question is using Speak With Animals and nobody else in the group has that spell).

Miraqariftsky
2009-01-03, 03:28 AM
Sorry. Whew.

Waitasec... he's the Healer, right?

ohgodsohgodsohgodsohgodsohgodsohgods...

toasty
2009-01-03, 03:30 AM
PbP Games die for a lot of reasons. Very often, players disappear into the strange land that is real life. I had a great game that was going on really strong and out of nowhere, the GM just disappeared. I still don't know what happened to him except that I belief he is still alive.

Other times the game is going great, but intitial interest wains and people, one by one, will drop out. In one game I'm playing right now of the 5 original players recruited for it, we only have 2 (or maybe 1, me) that are still in. Luckily, the GM has been able to recruit two new players and we have an GMPC tagging along, so that game is still going on quite well.

My suggestion to you is to enjoy what PbP you can and just hope for the best. I've been PbPing for about 18 months now and I don't think I've finished a single game. Most of them have fallen to pieces because the GM or various PCs (mostly, actually, its been the GM... lol) has had to leave the game for some reason. That being said, I'm in a bunch of games that are going strong and I don't see them falling to pieces any time soon. Even if they do, there are lots of other games I'm sure I could join, or perhaps even start one.

Drascin
2009-01-03, 03:45 AM
Yeah, I've been in a few PbPs, and they always die - usually by dissapearance of GM. I think it's mostly because either real life intervenes, or the GM in question starts losing some of his enthusiasm for the campaign.

It's annoying, yeah, but can you do. Having a bored GM would not be much better than the campaign just cutting off. Though I would really like it if they just said outloud, instead of letting it die slowly and having the players check on it every day only do be dissapointed.


Boredom.

Real life interference.

Short attention span.

I've been in about three PbP games ever that lasted more than two months, and even those have had their hiatuses and downtimes.

Which reminds me, are you going to answer me in our game, or am I waiting for nothing? :smalltongue:

Grail
2009-01-03, 05:19 AM
I like the idea of PbP, and I've even tried to play in a couple and run 1. However, PbP games have a major problem in that the game can be effectively held to ransom by players who don't give a damn, lose interest, or get their back up because the DM doesn't allow their uber death machine.

The longest i've played in a PbP game is about 3 months, they have all died after that.

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-03, 05:53 AM
It is the Healer who needs to reply, Nexus (admittedly, anyone can talk to the guard who just found the group to progress things a bit).

Leper Master
2009-01-03, 06:15 AM
Actually, in all PbP that i have played have all ended with insane PvP.

Lentava-Heppa
2009-01-03, 06:27 AM
Don't you guys have like, an OOC thread for that specific game? ;)


But yeah. PBP has a few major problems.

The hardest one is coming back after having been a few days off.

I have fallen to this trap as a DM a few times myself and while I don't know if everyone has recognized it but from having talked to others who play and DM games online (even applies to those who use IRC or such) I know I am not the only one to which this happens.


So, what is it about? Often DM asks his players to be active. Sometimes even gives specific limits. But life works as it works and there are often times that you just have to be a few days off with no warning in advance.

Maybe you were supposed to post previous evening, didn't remember/have time, decide to post next evening but a friend of yours asks you to come out for a few beers, evening grows longer, you come home in a shape in which you can't post, *really* don't feel like writing quality post in the morning and... You have been three days without posting. That kind of stuff happens.

Now, imagine that you are the DM. Some player (on which everything depended on) has been away for a day but you decide to wait him for another day. Then you are suddenly three days away. At that point you realize that the game has been paused for five days. The players have probably got to the conclusion that it ended and you disappeared. You could go back an apologize but some players might already have disappeared. Hell, you aren't sure if some left even before you were away!

Every day of this situation continuing it becomes a lot harder to gather the energy to go back and resurrect the game. It won't take long before the game is abandoned and forgotten by everyone.


Then there are the other problems. The next most important is ssssloooooowwwww pace when everyone is posting. If you want everyone to be able to post a few times even in a short conversation, it will take hours of needless waiting and days to go past a few lines of talking. This adds frustration for everyone.


The third problem is massive amount of work required from DM and players compared to regular game. It seems easier but it isn't. PBP offers so many possibilities when making it easier to throw private messages to people, throw them all separate spots etc., give them different info and dreams without having to explain it so that everyone hears it. But that also takes a lot of work. If you write long dream scenes or put a great deal of time into describing something and people don't pay it enough attention, it is very frustrating.




There are ways to counter all of these.

1) To tackle the first problem you need to make sure it can't begin to happen. The DM should have many of the players in some instant messaging client both sides use actively.

Being a lot in contact with the players outside that one PBP game (be it in messenger or playing RTS games online together) makes it easier to come back after those days off. It won't make anything fool proof but helps a lot.

2) The slowness is also helped by this. You can quickly ask about the details and how NPCs react if you say something and not need to always wait for each other to post on the boards.

People should also relax on who writes how often. Don't wait everyone to post before continuing. If some people post a lot more often than others, so what?

Also the players should be from the same continent as the DM to speed things up.

Everyone should assign another player (not the DM) to post their characters' actions if they aren't posting. To make sure that the things their characters want to get asked get asked regardless.

3) Get players with the right attitude. Stop giving as much time to those who won't do the same to you. No way around it.




I, for one, mostly DM solo games these days and to people on the same timezone as I am to get past those problems.

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-03, 06:56 AM
I have an OOC thread. Most people don't seem to use it, though. I have a lot of the players on IM, but the often aren't online or are busy, and my I normally don't wait for people (I roll for people in combat).

Kiero
2009-01-03, 07:46 AM
Not enough GM activity, generally. Flaky people who lose interest once the game starts. Poor communication of expectations and schedule issues. Low commitment because it's "only" online and no face-to-face visibility. Using systems poorly suited to PbP play (which includes virtually everything non-light unless steps are taken to mitigate it).

KIDS
2009-01-03, 08:16 AM
The commitment and the consequences of vanishing in a play by post game are much less than in a tabletop game, which makes it one reason. Personally, I don't mind when people just say they're bored and don't want to play anymore, but when they vanish without a word that sucks big time.

The second reason is length. Simple actions that might take a minute might take weeks. Good DMs will bypass this, for example not stopping the game at every pointless empty intersection to ask "which way do you go?"or whatever, and not paying attention to shortening what can be shortened is fatal to many games.

Of course, PbP games make up for it by being relaxed (no frantic looking up a rule at the table) and very open for roleplaying. People will write many things they would not otherwise say, with rare exceptions, and the PbP medium makes characterisation and believability much better.

I think that some 70-80 or so % of the games crash before reaching a satisfying conclusion (note: I don't say "ending". I say "satisfying conclusion"). Nonetheless, I have been and are involved in games that lasted for years and years, taking the party from level 1 to high levels. They are hard to find, but possible.

Proven_Paradox
2009-01-03, 09:14 AM
I'm DMing a PBP game that's been going off and on for... about a year and a half now, I think. Only one member of the original group remains. I've gone through something like a dozen players, and at a couple of points I've had to call the game to stop for a while when college life is keeping me down. There was one point I had to call the game to about a month long hiatus due to a class that was really kicking my ass--that was a lot harder to do than I thought it would be. Still, most of the players came back after that, so I must be doing something right.


When looking for PBP games as a player, typically what I do is just apply for every game that intrigues me and presume a roughly 30% survival rate (if it goes for more than a month or two, it's liable to go for quite a while). So far that's been accurate. If I even suspect I'm starting to overload myself, I stop for a while and wait--if I find myself with time for perhaps another game, I'll apply to a few if I see any I like.


As a DM, I first come to terms with the fact that this is going to be sloooooooooow. That game I mentioned above? IC, about two or three weeks have passed since it began. We've almost reached a point where I'll be ready to fast forward things by another week, so I'll call it a month at that point. I suspect it'll take an OOC month to get to that point though.

Another thing to keep in mind is that players are people too, and they have lives outside of the game. Be ready to step in and DMPC a character if they're gone for a while. Be ready to replace them if you have to. There are three players in my game that I'm currently pretty sure I'm going to have to write out. It's just a fact of PBP.

The thing I've found most often kills a game is DM absence. As such, I do my best to let players know when I'm going to be gone and for approximately how long I'll be away. Keeping information flowing will help.

Lastly, be ready for slow patches. We just got out of Christmas for example. That last remaining original player hasn't been able to post for most of December. Exam times tend to be rough too. Lots of things slow games down. Just be ready to roll with it.

Prometheus
2009-01-03, 11:51 AM
I was wondering this questions too. More important for a DM planning an adventure, id how many encounters, how many complete quests, and how many level-ups one could reasonably expect? With that information, hopefully one could plan a short whirlwind adventure that stays interesting before it doesn't stay interesting.

SurlySeraph
2009-01-03, 12:43 PM
Sometimes everyone is waiting for someone else to post next.

This. The faster the pace of a game, the more likely it is to work out. Otherwise, you lose interest in the concept shortly after the first fight ends.

Kiero
2009-01-03, 01:07 PM
As a DM, I first come to terms with the fact that this is going to be sloooooooooow. That game I mentioned above? IC, about two or three weeks have passed since it began. We've almost reached a point where I'll be ready to fast forward things by another week, so I'll call it a month at that point. I suspect it'll take an OOC month to get to that point though.

That's system-dependent, though. I've run one shots of 3-5 conflict scenes with Wushu in a month. As in a month of real time to get the whole thing done and dusted. It takes focus and reliable players, but it's eminently possible.

Vortling
2009-01-03, 01:14 PM
The level of player engagement is generally lower in pbp games than in other game types due to the slower pace of the game. Also you're not right there with the other players so you don't have the same connection that you get in a chat (join the irc channel, hint hint) or real life game. I admit I've played in pbp games a few times and simply been unmotivated to post because of the pace and lack of engagement I've had with the game.