Understanding - A V's Four Words Theory

[V Junior]

Yes, I know, you're probably getting bored of all these theories, but hear me out. Also, there's lots of it, and it's a bit confusing.

Vaarsuvius never said what s/he meant by 'ultimate arcane power'. And I think that any DM worth thier salt would not give a PC deityhood (which is how some theories describe UAP) via four words. Therefore, I predict that the UAP is understanding. Understanding everything would give V incredible insight and might unlock new spells, new levels of power, etcetera. It might even let V understand how to defeat the Snarl.

But to understand all this, Vaarsuvius has to understand (and accept) something that s/he clearly does not understand: the possibility that one could be wrong. It's clear, especially in recent strips, that V does not understand the concept that s/he could be wrong. V is convinced that s/he CAN get past the Cloister and find Haley. But s/he can't, not without being far more powerful then Xykon.

Therefore, I predict that V's four words will be something like this: 'I cannot do anything' (admitting that, despite previous beliefs and Internet memes, there are some things a wizard just can't do), 'I was completely wrong' (when a prediction s/he made was proven wrong), or something similar.

[Tempest Fennac]

That is an interresting idea. It could lead to V looking into different ways of solving problems rather then relying on force as well (admittedly, that comment to Durkon may have only been refering to using force during the battle).

[factotum]

Vaarsuvius never said what s/he meant by 'ultimate arcane power'. And I think that any DM worth thier salt would not give a PC deityhood (which is how some theories describe UAP) via four words.

I wouldn't say that ultimate arcane power WOULD be deityhood--that would be ultimate DIVINE power. (And yes, I know Raistlin from the Weis & Hickman D&D books achieved godhood just by getting really, really good at magic, but I didn't really agree with it then either :smallwink:).

[Kaytara]

Yeah, that's the idea I always liked. Something with a Sokrates vibe, like "Arcane Power is useless!" Vaarsuvius getting power and/or insight by realizing that having it won't be enough to solve everything.
The infamously incompetent members of the OotS have steadily been growing more competent via various personal arcs. Haley has grown up and learned to be responsible, Elan's been boosted by his prestige class but has also recently received a harsh lesson in taking the capabilities of his own class seriously enough. Belkar has learned to pay more heed to his long-term self-interest as opposed to instant gratification. Durkon and Roy haven't changed much but had no serious character flaws in the first place.
Vaarsuvius has the one serious character flaw Roy pointed out in a conversation with his father in Origins - too much faith in the power of magic. If V accepts the possibility that some problems require more than just spells to solve, he'll become a much more dangerous opponent.

[Tempest Fennac]

I disagree about Roy not having any real flaws due to how he is incredibly snobbish towards NPCs. Durkon's tree phobia, and tendancy to sometimes be too lawful, is another problem (to be fair, that often isn't as much of a problem as the other character's problems).

[Kish]

Not to be harsh, but this theory doesn't account for "to the right being," or "at the right time," and seems to run dramatically counter to "for all the wrong reasons." It has four words and that's all it has.

[Beans]

I disagree about Roy not having any real flaws due to how he is incredibly snobbish towards NPCs. Durkon's tree phobia, and tendancy to sometimes be too lawful, is another problem (to be fair, that often isn't as much of a problem as the other character's problems).
I wouldn't really say he's actively snobbish toward NPCs; rather, he seems to just never pay them any real attention, focusing on his friends and etc.

[Kaytara]

I wouldn't really say he's actively snobbish toward NPCs; rather, he seems to just never pay them any real attention, focusing on his friends and etc.

I DO agree that Roy is very snobbish, and not just towards NPCs, towards his friends as well, even when there's no need for it. Like to Elan. Roy uses every opportunity to put him down, usually taking advantage of the fact that Elan doesn't understand what he's doing. And yeah, it's Elan, but Roy still makes fun of him a lot more than Durkon or V or even Belkar. His snobbishness sometimes borders on plain meanness. Like "That's true, at least some good has come of your injury" when Elan sprained his wrist and was unable to play his lute.

However, in response to Tempest Fennac, while I agree that Roy's snobbishness is a definite character flaw, as you said, it's not a big a problem as the others' problems. More to the point, this particular flaw does little to impair Roy's general combat effectiveness. Sure, he's snobby, but it never really gets him into trouble where otherwise there would have been none.
Contrasted to that, there are plenty of incidents where the other characters' flaws actively get them in trouble. Elan's lack of responsibility - the bandit camp and Therkla's poisoning more recently. Haley's past lack of self-confidence - it's how she got into her speech impediment in the first place. And Belkar's impulsiveness - well, among many, many other examples, the bandit camp, killing the guard in Azure City, and killing the Oracle.

And as for Vaarsuvius, the recent events make this obvious. V expects that simply pulling enough all-nighters and studying hard enough will somehow directly translate into a more effective spell and that spell will solve all their problems. On top of that, as we've seen in Azure City Vaarsuvius believes that a lack of spells to be cast equals being completely useless. He hides among refugees because he's convinced that for all of his class levels and super intelligence, he can't do anything if he's out of spells.

Another flaw of V's is being a complete solo player and always taking it upon himself to solve the biggest problem. We see it in many, many encounters that have been ended with a few fireballs or disintegrates. We even see it when V heroically disobeys Roy's orders and goes to single-handedly dispatch three Titanium elementals, resulting in his isolation from the Order for the rest of the battle. Both of these flaws play a major role in V's obsession with finding Haley and distancing himself from his teammates. Vaarsuvius would be a lot more effective if he learned to trust others and let them contribute and accept that some things require more than magic to be solved.

In short, V has two problems - thinking he has, or should have, the ability/power to overcome any obstacle single-handedly, be it by magic or some other application of his intellect, and needing to do it single-handedly, possibly so he can soak up all the glory and recognition from it. I don't know what happened to V in the past to make proving his own self-worth to himself that important, but I salute the Giant for creating such a complex and psychologically believable character.

[Tempest Fennac]

I was thinking about Roy's snobishness being a problem outside of combat rather then in it (eg: the incident with Teleporter Wizard could have been averted it Roy just appologised for ignoring him, and calling Kubota "mustach boy" after he makes a perfectly reasonable comment (given what he knew) about using diplomacy on Xykon. I'd probably class not trusting others as a positive trait due to finding that things often go wrong when I do that in real life.

[Morty]

While Roy's attitude towards NPCs is a defnite flaw of his character that's bound to get him into serious trouble sooner or later -it already has at least once- it's not really exclusive to him. Most adventurers act that way.

[Optimystik]

Well, knowledge is power, especially for wizards. The one problem I see with your theory is that I can't think of a "wrong" reason for wanting understanding, while I can think of plenty for raw magical potential.

Unless "wrong" in the prophecy merely means "inaccurate" rather than meaning "immoral," in which case there'd be no immediate evil resulting from V's empowerment. Anyway, one thing I am sure of is that we'll know when V gets it.

[Kish]

While Roy's attitude towards NPCs is a defnite flaw of his character that's bound to get him into serious trouble sooner or later -it already has at least once- it's not really exclusive to him. Most adventurers act that way.
Maybe, I don't know. In OotS, though, it stands out way more for Roy than for anyone else. I can't remember the last time Durkon or Haley or Elan treated an NPC like furniture. (Belkar treats everyone, other party members included, like weapon training dummies.)

[Beans]

I was thinking about Roy's snobishness being a problem outside of combat rather then in it (eg: the incident with Teleporter Wizard could have been averted it Roy just appologised for ignoring him, and calling Kubota "mustach boy" after he makes a perfectly reasonable comment (given what he knew) about using diplomacy on Xykon. I'd probably class not trusting others as a positive trait due to finding that things often go wrong when I do that in real life.
Wait, Kubota was an NPC?

[Morty]

Maybe, I don't know. In OotS, though, it stands out way more for Roy than for anyone else. I can't remember the last time Durkon or Haley or Elan treated an NPC like furniture. (Belkar treats everyone, other party members included, like weapon training dummies.)

Well, I took Roy's behavior as a parody of players treating NPCs as entirely disposable and not really important, which is preety common, even though other members of the Order don't act that way. Which is still not to say it's not a flaw in Roy's character that's likely to bite him in the rear at least once.


Wait, Kubota was an NPC?

In a comic in which there are no players behind the main characters the line is a bit blurry, but I'd say Kubota was most definetly an NPC. He even had most of his levels in a NPC class, before going into that prestige class.

[David Argall]

Vaarsuvius never said what s/he meant by 'ultimate arcane power'.

Our Oracle has not shown any tendency to go for meanings beyond the obvious. So by "ultimate arcane power", we are likely to see massive amounts of arcane power, not any deeper meaning.


Therefore, I predict that V's four words will be something like this: 'I cannot do anything' (admitting that, despite previous beliefs and Internet memes, there are some things a wizard just can't do), 'I was completely wrong' (when a prediction s/he made was proven wrong), or something similar.

These are possibilities, if the circumstances are right. But so are nearly every other possible 4 word combination.

[MickJay]

Good idea for V's character development, but I'm not sure if he will be going in that direction. For now, I'm sticking with my theory that V's "ultimate" arcane power will be the "last" arcane power he obtains, ever (for whatever reasons). He may agree to cooperate with Redcloak, he may address Snarl, threaten a god; he gets his power, uses it (or not, depending on what the power is), and then it's all over, at least for V.

[derfenrirwolv]

Please. Pass. The. Doily.

[Optimystik]

Wait, Kubota was an NPC?

Yes, Aristocrat is an NPC class.


Our Oracle has not shown any tendency to go for meanings beyond the obvious. So by "ultimate arcane power", we are likely to see massive amounts of arcane power, not any deeper meaning.

David's right. We may not know the four words, but we WILL know when he achieves it - the ensuing lightshow will be pretty hard to ignore.

[Nerdanel]

Ultimate Arcane Power could be something as simple as the Epic Spellcasting feat. With this one feat a character is capable arbitrarily powerful spells, only limited by the character's knowledge(arcana/religion/nature) skill. Oh, and knowledge of the spell, but arbitrarily powerful custom spells can be researched with enough time + XP + money + spellcraft skill.

[Kish]

Wait, Kubota was an NPC?
? He's a decent contender for the title of "Character Least Likely To Be A PC."

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I like that theory, although I'm more a fan of "I am the SSGW!"

[Zevox]

Wait, Kubota was an NPC?
Of course. Anyone other than the Order of the Stick is, by default, an NPC. We've seen references to others having been PCs in the past (the Order of the Scribble, mainly), but this is the Order of the Stick's story, so as-is the default presumption is that they're going to be the only PCs in it.

And really, Kubota was a minor villain who existed only for a single sub-plot, what else would he have been?

Zevox