Asperger's Syndrome NPR Story

[kpenguin]

Do you find this (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98012194) NPR story offensive?

I don't, but I don't have Asperger's syndrome. Apparently some people who do have it have found it offensive, claiming it stereotypes those afflicted.

Thoughts?

[Rutskarn]

Asperger's Syndrome discussion on an internet forum.

I'm just going to go ahead and warn you, this might get ugly.

More on topic: Asperger's Syndrome is controversial by nature. I imagine that it would be hard to write anything on the subject without someone finding it offensive in some way.

[Mina Kobold]

Asperger's Syndrome discussion on an internet forum.

I'm just going to go ahead and warn you, this might get ugly.

More on topic: Asperger's Syndrome is controversial by nature. I imagine that it would be hard to write anything on the subject without someone finding it offensive in some way.

I have asberger and if what the article say was normal for Asbergers I wouldn't be writting and I would be annoying only knowing one thing and be completely dump. The article would (if I didn't knew about it) make me think Asberger is worse than Autism but I'm almost normal exept some thraits that isn't even in the description of Asberger but they don't even say that there's other ways of having it. The kid in the article sounds like an autist that used to be in my class at school exept even less normal (and this autist had to drop out)

[RationalGoblin]

Indeed. That kid doesn't seem to have Aspergers, he just seems to have a high-functioning sort of normal autism and perhaps some anger management issues.

I have Aspergers, and I don't act like that. At all. In fact, I've met several kids with Aspergers, and yes, most of them are vaguely like that, except the anger issues. Most of them (including me, rarely) just do an certain action over and over when they are stressed, or angered. For example, rocking back and forth, eating/chewing, and messing with their hands.

As for the article itself, I don't find it offensive in the usual way, I simply find it offensive that it didn't note that there are relatively "normal" Asperger children and adults. For example, many people don't know I have Aspergers until I inform them, or I (eventually) do something that vaguely characterizes me as very "different".

[Tempest Fennac]

I have it as well and I've never considered it to be a disability at all to be honest. I agree with RationalGoblin here.

[Faceist]

To be honest the girl interviewed in that article seems to be more screwed up than the boy. "Sell him to the zoo"? Sociopath alert!

[FdL]

I don't find it offensive, but it's poorly written.

As about A.S., as it is presented in this crappy article, I don't get that it's anything out of the normal behaviour of a kid.

In all, I do get the idea that all this stuff is just made up by some doctors that look too much into things. [/2 cents]

[kpenguin]

Have you listened to the article? Its an NPR story, its meant to be listened.

To be honest, I didn't realize that AS was controversial until someone pointed this article out to me in condemnation. Of course, I barely knew of its existence.

[Flame of Anor]

Yes, I have Asperger's as well, but that story is nothing like me at all. I agree, RationalGoblin, that the offensive thing is that it implies all people with Asperger's are like that. For me, it basically means that various social skills don't come naturally to me. And these are not skills like "not screaming" or "not chasing people with knives", it's just things like "forgetting to make eye contact" or "changing the subject abruptly" or "not working on the same thing for hours and hours and forgetting to eat".

Wikipedia gives the following:

"Although individuals with Asperger syndrome acquire language skills without significant general delay and their speech typically lacks significant abnormalities, language acquisition and use is often atypical. Abnormalities include verbosity, abrupt transitions, literal interpretations and miscomprehension of nuance...[and] unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech"

These are things which I find familiar and suspect those of us Playgrounders who have Asperger's would find familiar also, but it doesn't sound at all like the kid in the article. I'm not sure what he has, but it's not anywhere near as normal and functional as Asperger's.

Oh, and another thing. In my opinion, Sherlock Holmes, whom I admire greatly and have often been told I think similarly to, definitely has Asperger's. Those of you who have read the books will see what I mean. Think of the awkward social skills, the "verbosity, abrupt transitions...[and] unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech", and the rather self-detrimental excesses of concentration.

[blakyoshi7]

I have Asperger's.

I acted sort of like that...
when I was 5.

Just like anyone else, you get better at dealing with life as you grow up.

[wadledo]

To be honest the girl interviewed in that article seems to be more screwed up than the boy. "Sell him to the zoo"? Sociopath alert!

How?:smallconfused:
I've wanted to sell my little brother to the zoo, or possibly the mob, hundreds of times.

I admit, the article is poorly written, but for the most part, it is pretty solid.
You may not have been like that, or think that that's not what AS is, but you're boring.
They have to get interesting and controversial stuff, because they need people to listen.

As to the knife wielding thing, you'll notice how that's only one paragraph.
The rest of the story is devoted to a number of other issues this girl deal's with, and it seems to me that the brother is far more annoying than he is dangerous.

[FdL]

Have you listened to the article? Its an NPR story, its meant to be listened.

To be honest, I didn't realize that AS was controversial until someone pointed this article out to me in condemnation. Of course, I barely knew of its existence.

Heh! I had no idea what NPR was, as I am not from the United States (and I sure didn't care to find out when I read it).

To be fair, as with most topics on this forum, it has been talked about before.

[Castaras]

That's autism, not Aspergers.

And yes, it's not that offensive, just badly written and partially biased.

As an Aspie here also, I'm nowhere near that bad. Although sometimes I will just talk and talk at you about things unless you tell me to shut up, which is needed.

[Quincunx]

I have Asperger's.

I acted sort of like that...
when I was 5.

Just like anyone else, you get better at dealing with life as you grow up.

I toast you with a shot of hot chocolate.

[Charity]

Aspergers is on the autistic spectrum, there really is no distinct line seperating those with Aspergers with those with high functioning autism.

I haven't read this article, if it's likely to insult my intelligence I would rather not, I feel however that a lot of folk here might be under the impression that autism (or indeed Aspregers) is a specific thing, or that one is 'worse' than the other, this really is not the case. There is a lot of good information available out there for those whom are interested

Martian in the Playground (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Martian-Playground-Understanding-Schoolchild-Aspergers/dp/1873942087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231028751&sr=8-1) is an excellent entry level book.
Freaks, Geeks and Asperger Syndrome: A User Guide to Adolescence (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Freaks-Geeks-Asperger-Syndrome-Adolescence/dp/1843100983/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231028975&sr=1-1) is another fine book.
More for those with a deeper interest in the subject are these two books by Tony (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Guide-Aspergers-Syndrome/dp/1843106698/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231029176&sr=1-1) Attwood (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspergers-Syndrome-Guide-Parents-Professionals/dp/1853025771/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231029176&sr=1-2)

Also as an aside a lot of self diagnosis goes on with Aspergers, we all exhibit signs of autistic spectrum behaviour, we are certainly not all Aspergers.
I am not suggesting that those here are doing this just mentioning that a lot of folk think they know alot about Aspergers, I suggest you all read more published books and fewer web based articles on the subject.

[Rutskarn]

Heh! I had no idea what NPR was, as I am not from the United States (and I sure didn't care to find out when I read it).

To be fair, as with most topics on this forum, it has been talked about before.

NPR is National Public Radio, which has a variety of entertaining programs related to news, culture, and the lives of our citizens.

As well as a lot of stiflingly boring programs related to news, culture, and the lives of our citizens.

[FdL]

NPR is National Public Radio, which has a variety of entertaining programs related to news, culture, and the lives of our citizens.

As well as a lot of stiflingly boring programs related to news, culture, and the lives of our citizens.

Thanks. I had no idea until I looked it up in wikipedia after coming back to the thread. But thanks for the clarification anyway.

[TheBST]

I have a younger brother with Asperger's and I used to work as an aid in a special school, and no, I don't find the story offensive. Too much many of the sentiments have crossed my own mind in moments of severe frustration.

So I'm very cynical about a lot of people's claims to the condition, but this isn't the board for that.

[kpenguin]

I am not suggesting that those here are doing this just mentioning that a lot of folk think they know alot about Aspergers, I suggest you all read more published books and fewer web based articles on the subject.

I'd like to point out that the article is really more of a transcript of a radio piece, done by a fairly reputable source. Its not just some "web-based article".

[Renegade Paladin]

First thing's first: When you see a thread full of people on the Internet all claiming to have Asperger's syndrome, don't buy it. It's the self-diagnosis of choice when people want to have an excuse for not acting completely normally; it's actually not a third as common as one would think from all the people claiming it. I've been professionally diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, but since I'm not inclined to post copies of my medical records, I usually don't bring it up. If a psychiatrist hasn't diagnosed you, odds are you don't have it. Incidentally, I'm inclined to put down the offense taken at the story to people who've decided they have Asperger's and are angry because they don't act like that, when really they don't act like that because they don't have Asperger's. Some people are just geeks, and there's nothing wrong with that; there's no need to come up with some disease to excuse it.

As for myself, I mostly don't behave in the repetitive fashions typical of the disorder anymore due to intensive training and self-discipline; believe me, I want to. I still exhibit the obsessive specialty trait, which actually helped in my case because the obsessive specialty I fixated on for several years was human social behavior, so I learned how to comport myself in social situations in ways that most autistics never will. The downside is that if I don't catch myself (which I just did), I'll talk about it until someone tells me to shut up. :smalltongue:

That said:
I don't find it offensive, but it's poorly written.

As about A.S., as it is presented in this crappy article, I don't get that it's anything out of the normal behaviour of a kid.

In all, I do get the idea that all this stuff is just made up by some doctors that look too much into things. [/2 cents]
Intriguing. I suppose you've come to this conclusion as the result of decades of sociological and psychological study, no doubt?

I assure you, the behavior described is not normal. Yes, kids will learn something and be fascinated with it for awhile. That's normal. What isn't is the degree; an Asperger's patient's obsessive interest is all-consuming for as long as it lasts. When Miss Skillings recounts that her brother would start telling all about jaguars and would melt down if interrupted, she's not kidding. He doesn't want to talk about anything else and isn't interested in anything else that doesn't achieve the goal of helping him learn more about his interest, and this could go on for weeks or months. It becomes more controllable as the patient matures, or at least it did for me and seems to have done so for others I know, but at his age, he will obsess about a seemingly random subject and will not stop doing so until he decides to on his own; attempting to cut him short will simply disrupt his pursuit of the interest, which he will return to immediately after the impediment is removed.

Social interactions can be genuinely painful for an autistic who has learned to even have them in the first place. This isn't (usually) because the autistic doesn't like people; it's because we can't tolerate what we don't understand, and all you normals are bloody confusing. :smalltongue: This is more tolerable for adult Asperger's patients and high-functioning autistics simply because longer observation of people permits better understanding of what makes them tick, but for an autistic child interacting with a person who is behaving in a way that the child doesn't understand can easily become overwhelming. Spontaneous people are the Asperger's patient's bane.

And now that I've had that tangent, really the most offensive thing in this thread is the idea that it's possible for doctors to "look too much into things." Looking "too much" into things is what gave us the basis of all modern science; it is incredible to me that anyone would deride the engine of all human progress. :smallsigh:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I too have Asperger's Syndrome. Mine was officially diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, and I have undergone training and therapy to help cope with it for over ten years. While I don't find the article offensive, I do think that it could misinform, and even though the sister interviewed seems to care for her brother, you can tell there's some still some resentment.

The problem with Asperger's Syndrome, as my mother described it (She's an Occupational Therapist, and works with autistic children on a regular basis, including myself and my youngest brother) is that every case of autism, whether it's Asperger's Syndrome, high-functioning, low-functioning or something else, is unique, with it's own idiosyncracies and patterns. Take my brother and me, for example. We're completely different in terms of personality.

[Neko Toast]

Ah, Asperger's Syndrome. I've dealt with this topic before.

Regarding the article - seems to me like that article was a middle-school book report, as far as quality goes. :smallannoyed:

Regarding my experience with AS - I've been told many things. Some people say I have it. Some think I'm just blowing things out of proportion. Most people I discuss it with on the Internet disagree that I have it. People outside of it tend to agree more. Though I am not officially diagnosed, I tend to believe that I have it. I don't let it affect my life. So I have a few habits, and I'm partially socially inept. I still have friends, and I'm still happy with my life, so I can live with it. I'm just more easily embarrassed than others.

On a side note - Is it just me, or does the Internet seem to attract Aspies? I see a lot here now. o.o

Another side note - Just thought I'd throw this out there. According to studies (these may not be entirely true), AS tends to be hereditary. I myself believe this to be true, because I've watched the tendencies of my father (and his brother, but with him it's quite apparent), and I think he might have it, as well. So does my brother. Well... my brother could have a lot of things, really. His issues are another reason why I don't completely trust psychiatrists.

Now back to my personal life - As stated before, I'm not officially diagnosed, and I'm not planning on getting diagnosed anytime soon. There are several reasons. One, it shouldn't be considered a disease in some cases, because it doesn't always affect people's lives significantly. Two, my parents would find out if I did. Three, I don't completely trust shrinks (sorry if the term is offensive to anyone, it's just easier to type). Reasons two and three are sort of tied together. You see, my parents took my brother to see one years back, and they diagnosed him with ADD/ADHD/whatever the hell they're calling it these days. So, what did they do? Give him pills to shove down his trap. No counseling, no therapy, really. Just meds. This is just my opinion, but I sincerely doubt that medication is the all-out problem solver for mental conditions. Now, what does this have to do with my parents? Well, when he was on the meds, they constantly pestered my brother, and made sure (in other words, forced) he took the pills. In other words, they were dependent on the medication as well. This is all why I won't go to the doctor and become diagnosed. I feel that, if I do (even though I am legally an adult), they will find a way to force pills down my throat as well, as if that would solve the problem.

Thus ends my rambling. Carry on.

[FdL]

Yeah, whatever, Paladin. I still think the same, and this thread only adds to my opinion.

[Tempest Fennac]

Renegade, I was diagnosed by a psychologist who I saw for over a year (I'd never have heard of it if I wasn't diagnosed).

[Serpentine]

I agree that self-diagnosis is self-defeating and potentially harmful (sorry, Slayer), and it seems as though these things tend to be over-diagnosed. I don't think it's very fair to lump all doctors and all Aspies into this, though...
A friend of mine has been diagnosed (diagnosed. Probably not by a specialist psychiatrist - we don't seem to have so many of those here - but a GP, at least) with Asperger's. I told Dr Mum, and she said she though I was more likely to have it than him... She also used to think I might be obsessive-compulsive. Yay me?
This article didn't seem so bad to me... I mean, my friend's certainly not like that, but it didn't seem terribly extreme. Especially as they didn't actually give an age for the speaker or the brother. My friend told me he considers it more of a "blessing". He's incredibly talented and creative and wants an artistic career, and mostly it just makes him extremely focused on the task or project at hand. I haven't noticed much in the way of social skill issues, but on the other hand he's extra-comfortable with me and I haven't seen how he interacts with others much, and he does seem to have trouble making and keeping really good friends.

[thubby]

i thought it was rather cute. big sis feels protective of her brother.
if people are going to generalize this example to everyone with asperger's, they are idiots.

[SDF]

Also as an aside a lot of self diagnosis goes on with Aspergers, we all exhibit signs of autistic spectrum behaviour, we are certainly not all Aspergers.
I am not suggesting that those here are doing this just mentioning that a lot of folk think they know alot about Aspergers, I suggest you all read more published books and fewer web based articles on the subject.

I adamantly agree with that. Autism doesn't have a straight forward diagnosis, so looking at symptoms many people think, "Hey, I could have that." If you have an actual diagnosis I wouldn't begin to argue it with you, but a lot of the symptoms can mirror other disorders such as social anxiety, or it could be nothing at all. My favorite teacher and family friend, while I was growing up, had a daughter with full blown autism and that turned out to be a family tragedy for them. She was unresponsive most of the time. My current neighbor was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome years ago, and has many of the classic symptoms. In a topical coincidence the last time I babysat him he chased me around his house with a butcher's knife. It was also the last time I babysat anyone =P.


A friend of mine has been diagnosed (diagnosed. Probably not by a specialist psychiatrist - we don't seem to have so many of those here - but a GP, at least) with Asperger's. I told Dr Mum, and she said she though I was more likely to have it than him... She also used to think I might be obsessive-compulsive. Yay me?

It's true misdiagnosis can happen, even with trained specialists. If a doctor is trained in a certain field and several signs point to one diagnosis they are more apt to make that than another that could have the same symptoms. My best friend saw a doctor recently that deals with bipolar disorder. My friend's brother has it and apparently in his family history the diagnosis is rampant. So he was diagnosed with bipolar, and was given a prescription for bipolar meds. He didn't actually have bipolar and the drugs messed with his brain chemistry causing him to sleep then feel like crap for a week until he went back in and got rediagnosed.

OC is a major diagnosis as well. If you aren't acting like Adrian Monk and doing compulsive things that actually interfere with your day to day life chances are you don't have it. Most people will have random ticks such as, for instance, the need to organize your desktop icons into a uniform pattern, or have the TV volume bar match a certain letter above it even if a different volume would be preferable.

[Renegade Paladin]

Yeah, whatever, Paladin. I still think the same, and this thread only adds to my opinion.
Then I will not further waste my time, and simply count myself lucky you aren't making policy on the matter.

[Starshade]

Its not the most representative piece ive seen for readers who got no idea what Aspergers are, but, not offensive. And, it sound as Autism, not Aspergers.
Ive diagnosed by a psychologist, but im not 100% shure in the diagnosis, what i am not getting to fit, is i CAN read body languages, and quite well, i happily jabber away about all sort of topics, as ive always done tho. :smallbiggrin:
I dont mind Autist rambling on for ages about some strange topic, since i got same trait myself. I understand how the boy in the article can drive his sister completely batty, though.


I am quite bright, got a good ability to understand people with mental challenges as Autists, Downs and brain damage, etc. I got experience with growing up in a family with someone with severe health problems, and is quite good at handling lots of things, even people with problems. My experience is "Asperger" is used as a term, by "semi professional" people with little or no eduaction working in social healthcare and/or General Practicioners with no experience in the topic, for saying to parents: "Your kid got Autism, we do not know how severe it is." Its abused, even by a few "professionals" in the field of healthcare.

[hamishspence]

I got the impression that the fundemental basis of the syndrome was- social skills don't come naturally. A Person can learn them, but they will never be doing it instinctively.

Most of the rest of the traits run on a spectrum though.

[Holammer]

Ach.... Dr Asperger! My old nemesis! At any time anyone I know opens a textbook that covers the subject they come running to me with amazing revelations about what they think I have. It is understandable that there is a lot of self diagnosis going on here because some of the symptoms describe the typical nerd.
The radio transcript was not that bad, the personal opinion and experience of a big sister with an Asperger brother. It is radio and should be judged as such. Nobody expects a well researched paper on subject.

[Renegade Paladin]

I got the impression that the fundemental basis of the syndrome was- social skills don't come naturally. A Person can learn them, but they will never be doing it instinctively.
In a nutshell, yes.

[Neko Toast]

Serpentine - I know self diagnosis is, to be frank, a stupid thing to do. If I were to be technical for a moment, it was a friend of mine who told me I supposedly had it. I was emotionally distraught at that time, so I was ready to believe anything. I don't talk to this person anymore, mostly because they wouldn't let me forget that I had it. :smallsigh: They thought that, because they had been diagnosed with it in the past, they could diagnose others. Forget the doctrine's degree, who needs it? *facepalm*

To me, I don't consider AS a disease. I just think it's a fancy name for being nerdy imperfect. In other words, human (Again, this is just my opinion of it). This is yet another reason why, if I supposedly have it, I won't get myself diagnosed. Unless, you know, this was a really awesome doc who would diagnose me with "nerd syndrome".

[Renegade Paladin]

I don't consider it a disability now that I've learned to control it, but it sure as hell was when I would insist on studying things other than the current topic in elementary school. :smallyuk: I've learned how to partially channel it into things I need to learn (I picked up a string bass for the first time when I was in my last semester of high school, and passed college auditions on the instrument eight months later :smallcool:), but when the obsessive interest is uncontrolled and random, it can be a real detriment depending on what's fixated on. The worst scenario is fixation on another person, which tends to be quite unpleasant for that person; it never happened to me, but I've read about cases where it has. In addition, the inability to instinctively pick up on social cues is a disability for life; no matter how much you learn, there will always be things you don't know that other people just deal with naturally.

I should add that apparently my methods for controlling the formation of an interest don't work for others with the syndrome, or at least I can't communicate them well enough for them to be implemented. One description of autism is that the brain is wired differently, and the different wiring isn't different in the same ways from patient to patient, to continue the analogy.

[Castaras]

First thing's first: When you see a thread full of people on the Internet all claiming to have Asperger's syndrome, don't buy it. It's the self-diagnosis of choice when people want to have an excuse for not acting completely normally; it's actually not a third as common as one would think from all the people claiming it.


This is the one thing that does annoy me alot, tbh. People self-diagnosing Aspergers. If you think you have it, go see a professional about it, damnit! You probably need the help if you're old enough to realise you have it. I was diagnosed professionally at 2? 3? Something like that. Without the support from that age, I wouldn't be able to function normally, most likely. Did you have those problems? If not, then you have a touch of it, nothing more. Most people have a touch of it, but it isn't enough to be diagnosed as Aspergers. :smallsigh:

[/rant over]

And Aspergers isn't an imperfection, in my opinion. It's an advantage with a cost. It's like I took a flaw or two to get another feat or two. Sure, I'm crap with real life, people, and social things. But I have intelligence, and logic. Obsession is a two sided thing, both an advantage and disadvantage. The main part is I have the intelligence to work around the problems.

So no. It isn't a disability once you learn to cope with it. Personally, I'd hate to be "cured" of it.

[RationalGoblin]

Then I will not further waste my time, and simply count myself lucky you aren't making policy on the matter.

Agreed, Paladin. I won't waste my time trying to convince FDL either.

And, though there are many on the Internet that claim they have Aspergers when they don't, I myself have been diagnosed by several different doctors. All said the same thing.

And, as a side note, Aspergers is why I have the peculiar way of typing that some on these forums may have noticed. It is also the reason why I put that "honest opinion unless it's perfectly clear I'm sarcastic" line in my signature.

Fitting in yet another 'and', I agree with hamishspence's note about social skills: In my own experience, I have learned most of the social skills I need (even if I don't use them sometimes), but learning them doesn't make me as good at social skills as a normal person.

Finally, I agree with Paladin's assessment on the subject; Yes, it isn't a disability now, but when I was younger, it was quite a handicap. It's not so bad now, because, like Paladin, I've learned to control it. I've learned that people can't handle an 'Aspie' going on and on about one subject, so I've made myself control my Aspergerian urge to focus on one thing. To the contrary, I've managed to be able to focus or two, three, or even four things sometimes.

Oh, and as a note on the fixation on another person; I am a bit guilty of that, but I control it easily well enough to not snap and go completely insane, or even stalkerish tendencies. Plus, after a few months of not seeing the person at all (I.E., Summer Vacation), I tend to forget the person.

As a final note; I tend to force myself to "go with the flow", and not get bothered about things that would bother me if I were probably most other Aspies. This "go with the flow" mentality has helped me focus on several different things, like mentioned above.

EDIT: Also, agreeing with Castaras. The self-diagnosing people on the Internet bug me, as it rips legiminacy (need a spell check that actually works) from the true sufferers. I also wouldn't be functionally normally if it weren't the fact that I was diagnosed at a young age, and helped by my family.

And, yeah, I tend to see it as an advantage with a cost. A cost that, with help, can be overcome. After all, I have the intelligence, so why wouldn't I be able to work around the flaws?

[Flame of Anor]

As about A.S., as it is presented in this crappy article, I don't get that it's anything out of the normal behaviour of a kid.

In all, I do get the idea that all this stuff is just made up by some doctors that look too much into things. [/2 cents]


I'm very cynical about a lot of people's claims to the condition, but this isn't the board for that.


Yeah, whatever, Paladin. I still think the same, and this thread only adds to my opinion.

Now, these I do find offensive. Very much so. I have been actually diagnosed, and, clearly, so have many here.

________________________________________


HamishSpence, you say that "the fundemental basis of the syndrome [is]- social skills don't come naturally. A Person can learn them, but they will never be doing it instinctively." Yeah, pretty much. That's not all, of course, but, yeah, that's definitely there.

Slayer Draco, I think I see what you're getting at--how can we say where "normal" mental variations become "abnormal" mental variations? What is normal? How far off the usual must you be to have a "disorder"? and so on. You should be careful of your wording, though, or you might come across as saying the same thing as FdL.

Renegade Paladin, I appreciate your efforts to convince the sceptics, but I also agree with you and RationalGoblin that some people aren't worth wasting the time trying to convince.

Castaras, your "advantage with a cost" description is actually pretty much exactly how I feel about it. It enables me to attack problems with intellect and logic, to concentrate fully and determinedly, and other similar things. In fact, I believe that the term "differently abled", were it not politically-correct cr*p, would be very applicable re: Asperger's.

________________________________________


{Scrubbed}

[Jack Squat]

{Scrubbed}

Why, because you don't like it? I didn't see any rules being broken...of course, I also skimmed it. Point out if I missed anything glaring.

I think what people are getting at, and I will agree with them, is that Asperger is real, but it's over diagnosed. If you go to a specialist or two, and they conclude it, sure. If a family doc says it because the parent wants to see why their kid is shy and wants to treat it, not so much. I think that it being labeled "syndrome" and not "disorder" or a disease says a lot about why people may think it's kinda bogus as well. It's not a disease and shouldn't be treated as such.

Heck, Syndrome only means you have a few different signs/behaviors. In this case, it means you're shy and smart (I know, generalization, not the point). There's nothing holding you back from changing the being "socially inept" bit if you don't cling onto the crutch of having AS. It won't be "natural" at first, but that's because you're changing behaviors, which can happen naturally, but more often than not there's a conscious decision involved somewhere along the line.

[Illiterate Scribe]

some people aren't worth wasting the time trying to convince.

I'd be careful with this. Are you casting aspersions on FdL's worth as a person? Otherwise, to avoid misunderstanding, 'it's not worth the time trying to convince some people' would probably help.

:smallsmile:

[Neko Toast]

Flame of Anor - I see what you mean. I guess I should just clarify a little further. AS varies with every person. With some people, kind of like myself (if I actually have it, of course), they shouldn't worry about it, or consider it detrimental to their well-being. Others may need therapy or professional help. Everyone's different.

Castaras - You make a good point, as well, with 'advantage with a cost'. I don't have the greatest social skills, but I make up for it with other things. I'm exceptional at Math, French, and English. Not only that, but I've noticed that I don't require vast amounts of studying in order to take a test. Everyone else I know complains about how much work they had to do, and they turn to me. I shrug, and say that I merely skimmed over my notes. This is usually followed by several shocked faces. Enough about that, though. Bottom line, my Intelligence score is probably higher than my Wisdom score. :smalltongue:

[Dragonrider]

:smallbiggrin: Any conversation can be improved and clarified with the relevant application of D&D stats.

[Illiterate Scribe]

:smallbiggrin: Any conversation can be improved and clarified with the relevant application of D&D stats.

Char Op humans?

[Flame of Anor]

if this thread doesn't shape up, it should be locked
Why, because you don't like it? I didn't see any rules being broken...of course, I also skimmed it. Point out if I missed anything glaring.

I'm not saying that rules have been broken...yet. But this topic seems volatile enough to me that it could easily degenerate into a flamewar.

I do agree that Asperger's could well be overdiagnosed; I don't have enough experience to know for myself. What really does bug me, as I said before, is the people who say that it's not real.



some people aren't worth wasting the time trying to convince
I'd be careful with this. Are you casting aspersions on FdL's worth as a person? Otherwise, to avoid misunderstanding, 'it's not worth the time trying to convince some people' would probably help.

Yes and no. I don't mean to impugn FdL's inherent worth, and I did simply mean that the time would be wasted. However, I will not excuse his intolerant behavior, which is his fault alone.

[Jack Squat]

I'm not saying that rules have been broken...yet. But this topic seems volatile enough to me that it could easily degenerate into a flamewar.

It hasn't broken any rules, but it violates them :smallconfused: I'm hoping I'm misreading that. I do agree that we should remain civil, no need to insult others (not same as making people feel insulted, as there's always that possibility).


What really does bug me, as I said before, is the people who say that it's not real.

I think they're just not wording as best they can. It's not a disorder. It's not something that can't be worked around. As I mentioned, a syndrome is just a presence of multiple signs (or symptoms...but I find calling them that is linking it too closely to a disease). The problem is people who say they have Asperger Syndrome (or ADHD, ODD, or any other behavorial "problems") as an excuse. Those people are hiding behind a name, they think they're fine because they have such-and-such and will just deal with it instead of trying to fix the problem. The big one with this is ADHD, which people decide to claim to have/get diagnosed as having so they can continue being lazy/not paying attention. I know some people who don't try and socialize because they "have Asperger's." The people who have been saying it's not real are probably thinking of people like this, and consider it an excuse to make you feel better about being a reclusive nerd.

[Lupy]

Well, while we're talking about Aspergers, would one of those of you who has Aspergers mind answering a few PM'd questions I have about Aspergers? :smallconfused:

[Illiterate Scribe]

I think they're just not wording as best they can. It's not a disorder. It's not something that can't be worked around. As I mentioned, a syndrome is just a presence of multiple signs (or symptoms...but I find calling them that is linking it too closely to a disease). The problem is people who say they have Asperger Syndrome (or ADHD, ODD, or any other behavorial "problems") as an excuse. Those people are hiding behind a name, they think they're fine because they have such-and-such and will just deal with it instead of trying to fix the problem. The big one with this is ADHD, which people decide to claim to have/get diagnosed as having so they can continue being lazy/not paying attention. I know some people who don't try and socialize because they "have Asperger's." The people who have been saying it's not real are probably thinking of people like this, and consider it an excuse to make you feel better about being a reclusive nerd.

Indeed, it's a cry wolf situation, except those genuinely with Asperger's syndrome are the ones who end up getting eaten by wolves. It just makes it worse for people who genuinely have it. I am sceptical of internet claims to such conditions, just as I'm sceptical at base as to claims of '14/f/Cali', but I don't let it affect how I'd talk to people, or regard them.

[Flame of Anor]

It hasn't broken any rules, but it violates them :smallconfused: I'm hoping I'm misreading that. I do agree that we should remain civil, no need to insult others (not same as making people feel insulted, as there's always that possibility).

Um...I'm not sure where you're getting "violates the rules". Is it the word "volatile"? If so, that word means "controversial, potentially explosive" and not "in violation of rules".


I think they're just not wording as best they can. It's not a disorder. It's not something that can't be worked around. As I mentioned, a syndrome is just a presence of multiple signs. The problem is people who say they have Asperger Syndrome as an excuse. Those people are hiding behind a name, they think they're fine because they have such-and-such and will just deal with it instead of trying to fix the problem. I know some people who don't try and socialize because they "have Asperger's." The people who have been saying it's not real are probably thinking of people like this, and consider it an excuse to make you feel better about being a reclusive nerd.

Hmm...FdL seemed pretty dismissive of the entire idea of Asperger's. I would take some convincing before I believed it was a wording problem, though I agree that it could be that in other cases. I also agree that it doesn't help any problems to use a name as an excuse, but, in cases where it is true, while it doesn't excuse rude behavior, it does mitigate it. As for it being an excuse to make one feel better about being a reclusive nerd, I don't see what's wrong with being a reclusive nerd--in moderation, at least. Sherlock Holmes was a reclusive nerd, and look where it got him.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I agree with FdL in some manners.
I think, a lot of the time, psychiatrists and all those people paid to diagnose people just slap a diagnosis on, and, so, its easier to tell a parent with an upset child who won't shut up "Oh, hey, your kid has Aperger's. It has nothing to do with your inability to raise a child properly."
This is also my opinion on ADD and ADHD and depression.

That said, I would like to add that I'm not dismissing Asperger's, ADD, ADHD, and depression entirely. I understand that there are many people out there who genuinely suffer/live with these issues.
However, I do think many of those out there with professional diagnoses (or whatever the plural is) don't really possess them.

The article doesn't seem so much about children with Asperger's so much as this girl's specific case and how it affects the family life.

[Killersquid]

What should be said now is that Asperger's Syndrom is not actually confirmed. Henry (I think) Asperger said that in order for it to be determined to be real, it needs to be studied more. Of course, no one did really, and its just handed out as a diagnosis, or self-diagnosed by people with absolutely no training.

This does not mean it doesn't exist, but it has been overdiagnosed with little research.

[D_Lord]

I have it but from what I read the kid in the first article had something else or a really strong version of it. You can get along with others even with Asperger's, still it can make you a little odd, if for no other reason then you don't think in the same way as others because you never could learn some of the basics of normal socitly. not sure if I put that right, need to reread that or ask my parents again for more acceritc information.

[Raiser Blade]

Hell I know a lot of "normal" people who are much worse in social situations.

If you've been diagnosed or not it really doesn't matter. Either way you sholdn't use it as an excuse. Life is full of obstacles and you won't help yourself by using a mental crutch.* Just keep trying to improve the areas of your life that need work.


*To clarify I mean tht you shouldn't stop trying to work past your problems even if they are legitimate ones.

[Starshade]

What should be said now is that Asperger's Syndrom is not actually confirmed. Henry (I think) Asperger said that in order for it to be determined to be real, it needs to be studied more. Of course, no one did really, and its just handed out as a diagnosis, or self-diagnosed by people with absolutely no training.

This does not mean it doesn't exist, but it has been overdiagnosed with little research.

True, and it REALLY should not be placed as a "Autism spectrum disorder", since, if the people using the term, dont got proper skill or education (a specialist psychiatrist once told my father the woman who had responsibility for detecting problems for children in my school, didnt got what it takes to understand people, and, never would. And thinking back, i agree.)

I, as example, WAS not diagnosed in school at all. And, me? I'm somewhat ok off.

My social problems? Ive experienced i try to take the "peacekeeper" role among the family i grew up in, i read not just them, but any person's feelings quite fluent, 99% of those who meet me seem to underestimate me totally.
What i got problems with, is more helping someone in my family with untreated psychosis (,due to untreated health issues, i suspect Lupus or a Thyroid disease, probably partially both, healthcare just bullied and mocked and not helping).

My reaction to this? Get better at it, try to understand, figure out, how i, a computer geek and Aspie, is to help someone with BIG issues, figure out how to get healthcare to do their job, and fix a broken life. Do this come naturally?
No, but it dont need to, i handle it. What i lack in one area, i got in others.


I suspect my social life has suffered more due to growing up in a house with someone who belive General Practicioners blackmail the phone company to spy on us, that our relatives can influence the govermental agencies, that there is a conspiracy, big one, and its US who is the VICTIM.

Ive tried to persuade "no, my programmer pals cannot re program my Nokia 5110, its too old and small, it cannot be bugged, not even by your doctor", and, unluckily i had to accept talking code (Spy code,like, when you play superagent style "code,) when doing "confidential conversations" on cellphones a while. :smalleek:

Compared to the persons with REAL problems, normal people is quite ok, people who is mentally challenged is ok to associate with, i think, Autists specially, since they dont mind mindless chat about all sort of strange things. :smallbiggrin:

[Jalor]

This is the one thing that does annoy me alot, tbh. People self-diagnosing Aspergers. If you think you have it, go see a professional about it, damnit! You probably need the help if you're old enough to realise you have it. I was diagnosed professionally at 2? 3? Something like that. Without the support from that age, I wouldn't be able to function normally, most likely. Did you have those problems? If not, then you have a touch of it, nothing more. Most people have a touch of it, but it isn't enough to be diagnosed as Aspergers. :smallsigh:

[/rant over]

And Aspergers isn't an imperfection, in my opinion. It's an advantage with a cost. It's like I took a flaw or two to get another feat or two. Sure, I'm crap with real life, people, and social things. But I have intelligence, and logic. Obsession is a two sided thing, both an advantage and disadvantage. The main part is I have the intelligence to work around the problems.

So no. It isn't a disability once you learn to cope with it. Personally, I'd hate to be "cured" of it.

Wow, you said pretty much exactly what I was going to say there.

I was diagnosed by two licensed psychiatrists at age 7 and then promptly told that Aspergers is a myth by some random general practitioner. Naturally, my parents believed the random buffoon. I've never been able to get counseling, but at this point I don't really need it. Luckily.

I was socially hopeless until, wow, maybe six months ago. Only recently have I been able to carry on a real two-sided conversation rather than babble on about my obscure interests. I've never been popular (or not-unpopular for that matter), but at least I do have friends now. It took an entire summer of reading psychology articles and watching movies with sociable protagonists, but I'm mostly a normal geek now. Sure beats my pre-social skills life, where I would punch people in the face for talking to me.

I do also have ADD, which I have also been diagnosed with. I know it is a real problem because there is a warm can of Coke on my desk. It has been there since Friday and I will take it into the kitchen, forget what I am doing, and walk back in here without putting it in the refrigerator. I have yet to change my lizard's water dish today and ended up staring at my lamp for 10 minutes the last time I tried. Unless I take medication, I deal with crap like this constantly.

So yeah, apparently no amount of sleep/Mountain Dew/knowing that I have school today will make my posts coherent, but I think I may have said something of value. Now excuse me while I put this can of Coke in the fridge and change my lizard's water.

[Telonius]

My little brother was diagnosed with Asperger's right around 1995, fairly soon after it became well-known in America. He was about nine. For me, those first nine years were similar to what the girl in the article described. My parents were very much involved with figuring out what was wrong, from about year two onwards. But since the doctors didn't know what they were looking for, he kept getting misdiagnosed (ADD, ADHD, and so on). When they finally got him on the right medication, it was an incredible change. My parents still wish they'd known sooner, and had a few more years to help him develop.

My brother is about in the middle to the lower-middle of the spectrum. He's not dumb - he's very good with mechanical things. He can fix just about any kind of engine. But getting a conversation out of him is like pulling teeth sometimes, and his voice does have a bit of a lisp. Because of those "lost" years, school was a constant struggle (both in getting him to learn the material and getting the school district to work with him). Graduating from high school was about as difficult for him as it would be for most people to get a PhD. He's probably never going to college, but he'll have a good career as an auto mechanic if he can find a place that will hire him.

Those 9 years were really frustrating for me, particularly since I did extremely well in school. I was the typical selfish kid, and didn't really realize that the world didn't revolve around me. So when little brother got all the attention for "being bad," and I was getting straight A's but little attention, that was a little hard for me to take. I didn't try to physically remove myself from the situation like the girl in the article did, but I tried to mentally remove myself from the situation - doing things like crossword puzzles, making up make-believe worlds, and reading fantasy books for hours and hours. So yeah, while the article was very badly written, I can see where they were trying to go with it. I can relate to how that girl's feeling.

[Jack Squat]

Um...I'm not sure where you're getting "violates the rules". Is it the word "volatile"? If so, that word means "controversial, potentially explosive" and not "in violation of rules".

Yeah, I read it wrong...that's what I get for trying to reply while in a few other conversations. my mind took "volatile" and turned it into "to violate".


As for it being an excuse to make one feel better about being a reclusive nerd, I don't see what's wrong with being a reclusive nerd--in moderation, at least. Sherlock Holmes was a reclusive nerd, and look where it got him.

Sherlock Holmes and his entire world is fictional, probably not the best example. When I mentioned using it as an excuse, I wasn't talking about "I'm like this because I have Asperger" but "I'm not going to go out and do x because I have Asperger and I'd have to interact with people."

[Xykon_Fan]

Alright, before I continue, I'll confess. I read about 1 1/5 of this. People are affluent on the subject.

I mostly just popped in here to see what it said. I think the article *is* poorly written, and I think it does tend to portray that behavior as the norm. I'd agree with everyone who says the kid probably has high-functioning autism, but I understand that whoever diagnosed the poor kid probably avoided the autism label except in super-obvious circumstances, y'know? Autism carries with it a hell of a lot of connotations.

@At Renegade, Castaras, and Slayer:

Anyway, Renegade Paladin and Castaras, you're my heroes, and on some level, comrades, I suppose.

I'm not labeled, but I have been treated by an ND who wasn't into labeling anyway. I'm not aspergers. I know that much. I've met kids who have it though. I know they were because being the son of the ND's assistant (my mom was also learning a lot while she did this) has its perks. One of which is an extensive education on the subject. It also helps that the ND and my mom would refer to them with labels afterwards. It's largely because of problems with kids excusing themselves from normal behavior or becoming depressed once they are labeled, so I actually understand that part.

Anyway, I've done much the same thing as it looks like you guys have, except I believe mine is over on the ADD side of things. I've learned to control it, and for that reason I pity the kids with it who have to put meds in themselves because others have never taught them how to use it effectively. Imagine an ADD's energy harnessed so that, while their mind still bounces constantly, it's trained to hit on one subject more than others. Heheheh...I might avoid it, but once I start working, I work fast, and it's great. At this point, I wouldn't give it up for the world. While it's not my personality, it's an integral part of it that has affected every other part. So...for being against meds, I also have to tell Slayer that I respect him. It's not a popular position.

Anyway, just wanted to give those people props. Thanks, all.

[Flame of Anor]

Sherlock Holmes and his entire world is fictional, probably not the best example. When I mentioned using it as an excuse, I wasn't talking about "I'm like this because I have Asperger" but "I'm not going to go out and do x because I have Asperger and I'd have to interact with people."

Sure, he's fictional, but how could Conan Doyle have written such a believable character unless he was basing it to some extent on people that he knew?

As for "I'm not going to go out and do x because I have Asperger and I'd have to interact with people", yes, that is an unhealthy attitude to be carried to the extreme. There is nothing wrong, however, with having a less-social life if that is what one is comfortable with.

[RationalGoblin]

What should be said now is that Asperger's Syndrom is not actually confirmed. Henry (I think) Asperger said that in order for it to be determined to be real, it needs to be studied more. Of course, no one did really, and its just handed out as a diagnosis, or self-diagnosed by people with absolutely no training.

This does not mean it doesn't exist, but it has been overdiagnosed with little research.

Actually, it's getting studied more and more, in my experience. I've been asked to participate in 5 or so studies about Aspergers, and will in fact participate in yet another one tomorrow.

[Exachix]

Those who know me know I only really post in SMGB for fun, or if I really need to/want to post something. And this I believe I may want to. Advance apologies if this irks/annoys/repeats someone. I will. Sorry. Also I apologise if my writings are wrong.
There is always uncertainty in what you watch/listen too/read on the internet. You have to learn to discern from the truth and discern from the lies.
I don't take myself as being a master of this subject, but I'd like to share the views I have, from what I know, and can discern from The National Autistic Society (http://www.nas.org.uk/)'s Website. Plus what I know of being an older brother to a mildly autistic sibling, and from someone who is trained to help people with special education statements.
Anyway, let's vector off that tangent and set a course for what I was going to say.

I didn't read all of that article, as it just annoyed me. I think if I listened, I'd have been so annoyed I'd have just got up and revised. For a start the article states 'Mildly Autistic'. However, I am not the person to challenge this, nor am I a master of this subject.

Autism itself is Autism Spectrum Disorder. As the name suggests, this is a wide range, a spectrum, of different traits, and there are many things that are aspects of it. In a slight and varying ways each of us is autistic, and displays those tendencies.
Some people will do so more than others. People who are stated as having Aspergers/Autism are probably just further away from the 'normality' than you or I. Where 'normality' is whatever Psychologists and Psychiatrists take as the normal human being. Though for an Autistic/Asperger Syndrome person
This is probably a rant for another day.

Something someone I know said is that people with Dyslexia and such traits on that side are akin to the person viewing the world from a different angle, as if they have a different Point Of View. From what I can tell, autism is much the same. Every one of us has a different PoV on the universe at hand, foot or paw. Some people have defined a 'normal reigon', of which most peoples Points of View coincide on many things, such as numbers, words and so forth. For people with Dyslexia and Dyspraxia (just the two I know off the top of my head) they see these in differing ways, forcing differences in their observations. Autism, is as far as I can tell another of these.
From the site linked above, the NAS, Dyslexia and Dyspraxia are two conditions that are close to Autism. Maybe what I just said wasn't totally unrelated. Also a re-iteration of my disclaimer I made. These are just my views. They could be wrong. Please don't get annoyed about it.
Seems PoV rants should also be saved for another day though... woa that's a big paragraph.

As Zousha stated, every one of the people diagnosed with Autism/Asperger Syndrome (this is, those who are stated by psychologists to having these traits) is different. (Whoo! Shorter paragraph)

My take on Self-Diagnosis; Like everything, you cannot be too sure. People will get it wrong every so often, and not every case is the same. This applies to you too. You can self-Diag it wrong. More risk of you getting it wrong though than a trained professional, No offence is intended by this sentence.
If you're still young, you can get assistance with developing social skills and adjusting. Although, you're on the internet on a forum, so you should be able to make some choices ourself. Everyone is different. As such, every 'solution' differs. You can learn to cope with it. You can learn to cope with everything.

As for me. I've lived with someone mildly autistic for all but 2 years of my fragile existence. I would never change him. Except to see if he can give us more than a few seconds warning before throwing up. -.-. I don't know what life would have been like if he were not autistic, as it didn't happen like that. He's who he is.
This is sort of a self-diagnosis, but as autism is fairly genetic, it is just a derivation. But, I believe I exhibit traits of autism in my behaviour, but as I have stated, so does everyone.

Back to Diagnosis and 'treatment' in general. If you realize you have Asperger's, or Autism, then don't change. You've most likely had it for some time. Continue as normal. Ok, you may have someone many people have, but that's good. Better you know other people to compare your personality too, and if you're having problems, then others can support you.

That's slightly ironic. Sorry.

I've just asked people with Autism and Asperger's to be sociable. But, that's what you should and could do. You have a trait which retracts from your social ability. Develop your social abilities. To stop myself from contradiction, everyone is different, so it may not work for you. But try it. You shouldn't hide because of something you have. You should stand proud of our uniqueness.
Also remember I am in no way trained to give you this advice. Take it if you will, but if it all goes wrong, I didn't do it sir, no officer, what napalm officer?

That post expanded out... oops. Sorry guys! As a final recommendation, read stuff on the NAS website if you're not too sure.

[Raistlin1040]

Now, as a rule, I don't particularly trust a diagnosis, self-done or otherwise, for things that are not "illnesses" exactly, but "conditions". This has nothing to do with Asperger's or Autism, rather someone I know being diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, merely because he's easily pissed off, and uses it as an excuse to fling around "the f word" at school. Take note, this is someone I've known for three years, and it's just in the past half year he's started getting angry easier, or at least expressing it more.

I do believe in Autism, and Asperger's as serious conditions, if the condition *is* serious. I'm not quite so sure I totally buy into "mild Asperger's". It's one thing to be completely shaken when confronted with any social system and to become entirely deer-in-headlights if someone tries to talk to you, it's another to be mildly uncomfortable meeting new people. I'm not a doctor, but that strikes me more as self-esteem issues, or social nervousness rather than Autism. I know three kids my age with Autism. Greg is completely non-functioning, can't talk, needs to be walked places by an aide, ect. Jenny and Kevin are able to be in regular classes fine, but they don't initiate conversations, and they sort of dance around subjects when you try to talk to them, and only the teachers can really get them to speak up and say more than a sentence at a time.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not doubting the condition, or the validity of anyone's claim of having it, it's just that it seems, from what I know, that a lot of these things can be seen as simply wanting to diagnose a personality type as a special condition. Like Rabbit said, so many kids get diagnosed with ADD and ADHD and Autism, simply for showing personality traits, or slightly odd physical mannerisms, like a tendancy to interrupt, or nervous hands. I myself have a mild problem that if I'm sitting down, and my feet are touching the floor, one of my legs (sometimes both, but rarely) will usually start shaking up and down on the balls of my foot, and I can only really stop it if I think about it. It's not because I have an issue sitting still or have ADD, it's not because my leg feels asleep or hurts, it just happens.

A few posts back said something like "Asperger's is basically where social skills must be taught, and don't come naturally." Social skills are TOTALLY based upon experience, for everyone. You don't just turn a certain age and suddenly know how to navigate social interactions. You learn by doing. If you don't like social interaction, either from a condition, or simply because you don't like it, you WILL NOT be as socially competant as someone who has a lot of friends, plays team-sports, does after-school clubs, ect. Not intended as an insult, or an attack, or anything, but if you choose not to try to expand your social knowledge by meeting people and such, and have "mild Autism/Asperger's", I'm not sure you can say "Yeah, I'm not too social, but it's because I have Asperger's". Very few people are comfortable with things the first time they try, that's the point of practicing, and trying to get better.

[Flame of Anor]

So, Rai, you're saying that, for conditions that aren't really diseases, there are often people who say that they have that condition when they really just have a certain personality type? Maybe so, but remember that, if it's not a disease, what is it but a personality type? Basically what I'm saying is that, even if it is "just" a personality type, the person could still have whatever "syndrome", because these syndromes really are just personality types which are out of the ordinary.

[Raistlin1040]

No, I'm saying that it's aggressively over-diagnosed, and a lot of people who are merely shy end up being considered Autistic, and it sort of brings down the credibility of it as a condition.

[Starshade]

No, I'm saying that it's aggressively over-diagnosed, and a lot of people who are merely shy end up being considered Autistic, and it sort of brings down the credibility of it as a condition.

Its a bit more complex than that.

Take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P4SdvtNKdU
It is a clip showing several oddball moments where Cmd Data mess up.
And, ive had a discussion with a autist who more or less reminded me of something commander date did there:
Me: By the way, since the hotel chef wanted to start up a new dance course, would you be interested? If you could learn to dance, what would interest you?
He: Stepping. It looks fun.
Me: what about Girls? Like, pair dances?
He: i like stepping

And then, the convo trained off totally, and, the convo ended up speaking about, um, trains i think.

Data do, and act sometime like some autist spectrum. Strange, insignificant details, patterns or thing who seem casual, is sometime a deep and significant from their point of view. Lack of ability to "get" jokes, and little ability to "read" people.

Aspergers ' i think read people way better than autists, though. As far i know, the research in aspergers or autism spectrum disorders, sugest the physical clumsiness, and social problems are connected to a lack of mentally copying others.

What happen when ordinary people speak, is this: Person A say something, B say something, A sit, B sits, then A moves his hand, say, stroking his hair, B then often copies A's movement, and subcontiously adopts A's facial, tone of speech, and posture. B then learn by the copying, a bit of what A feel.

We also use this mechanism to copy other when they do practical things, carpentry, football, play tennis, or do Karate. Those who simply dont copy others instinctively, is "clumsy", mess up, fumble and simply dont understand how others do stuff so much better.

Honestly, i like Startrek, but, ive never laughed of Cmd Data, not once as far i know. He's extremely interesting from many points of view, partly since i'd never find others messing up funny in real life, and laughing of others failures, is never "funny" for me. But he's a good example for how the Aspie's problems work.

[Groundhog]

I think that the point of the NPR piece was not to give people an impression about what Asperger's is. This is written from the point of view of the older sister, who is commenting on her life as the sibling of a disabled child. Her younger brother could have had Cerebral Palsy and it wouldn't have changed much in the story. The point was that she loves her brother, but hates the effect that he has on her life.

[The Extinguisher]

Not meaning to offend anyone, but I view claims of Asperger's with as much credibility as IQ tests. I'm not going to say it's all fake, but I just don't believe it's as numerous as it seems. And when people call something like this a "blessing" my skepticism meter goes haywire.

As for the article itself, I don't have much to say. It's more of an emotion piece than one about any sort of disorder.

[Ghastly Epigram]

We also use this mechanism to copy other when they do practical things, carpentry, football, play tennis, or do Karate. Those who simply dont copy others instinctively, is "clumsy", mess up, fumble and simply dont understand how others do stuff so much better.

Great, now you have got me wondering if I am mildly autistic. :smalleek: I have this problem all the time. I cannot even use scissors properly, and have a terrible time understanding when people try to show me how to do things.

Nah, I will keep on assuming I just epically fail. :smallbiggrin: