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Fogel
2009-01-04, 10:25 PM
I'm currently trying to build an Elf Ranger and I'm looking for opinions on my build.

This is my first 4e character so bear with me if my choices are suboptimals. :)

Now, we're running with 3 PCs : A wizard, a paladin and myself. So I was thinking that I probably should go the TWF style so I can soak some damage with the paladin up front. I'm not really as much looking for an optimal build as for opinions on what could be a better option or if this build is good enough.

Here's the stats with a 25 point buy (racial included) :

STR 17
CON 13
DEX 16
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 8

From what I read, going the Pit Fighter route (from the Fighter PP) is the best way to go for a TWF Ranger, or is it really?

Skills : Nature, Perception, Athletics, Stealth, Insight (From Cormyr regional benefit). Looks like I am gonna be the skill monkey guy and that doesn't really bother me. I was planning to grab Thievery so I could deal with traps and such.

Feat progression (Heroic Tier only) :

[Rgr] Toughness
[1st] Weapon Focus (Heavy Blades)
[2nd] Brutal Accuracy (from Martial Power, +1d6 + WIS to the Quarry's target when using Elven Accuracy
[4th] Elven Precision
[6th] Skill Training : Thievery
[8th] Lethal Hunter
[10th] Student of the Sword (Fighter MC)

Equipement :

2x Broadsword (From AV, +2, 1d10), longbow, hide armor, standard adventurer kit. Should I switch to scimitars in paragon for the Scimitar dance feat?

Powers : [At-Will] Twin Strike, Nimble Strike or Hit and Run, [Encounter] Two-Fanged Strike or Evasive Strike [Daily] Jaws of the Wolf or Sudden Strike

More information on the build :

Like I was mentionning, I was planning on taking the Thievery skill so I can be the "rogue" in the group, taking care of traps and open locks. I was also planning on grabbing a few ranged powers so if a combat starts from afar, I could shoot the enemies with my bow and then switch to TWF when they reach close combat.

I'm torn between the powers as you can see ;) And I didn't even mention the powers from MP, some of those are pretty good too. Some comments would be appreciated.

So far, I'm impressed with 4e. They did a good job of balancing the powers since I've past the last 3 days wondering which one I would get. Same for Paragon Paths. ;)


Would you change anything? A power, a feat? Another look on what the build is bringing? Thanks in advance for all your comments.

Edge of Dreams
2009-01-04, 10:37 PM
I recommend longswords instead of broadswords. A Ranger's high dps comes mainly from hitting more than other classes with Twin Strike. The extra +1 to hit more than makes up for the damage difference between d8's and d10's. Or you can take Weapon Proficiency(Bastard Sword) to have both benefits.

I'm not fond of brutal accuracy, just 'cause its a damage increase that only happens once per fight at best. I'd look for something that gives a more consistent benefit. With no true healer in the group, Durable may be worth considering, as each of your surges will not heal you as much as they would with a healer in the party. And invest in potions and maybe the quick draw feat to be able to draw and drink the potion as one action.

Hal
2009-01-04, 10:49 PM
Do you have access to Martial Power? You might find a Beastmaster Ranger to be more useful. You won't have the same level of damage as the Two-Weapon Ranger, but you'll have a damage sink in the form of your animal companion. With only three of you, a 4th body during combat might be helpful.

Mando Knight
2009-01-04, 11:21 PM
Usually, you only want one primary attack stat: choose either ranged (Dex) or melee (Str). For me, this means that when it's an Elf, go with making your foe a pincushion. As a high-Dex character, this will also mean that your AC and Reflex (the two most common defenses) will be rather high, and Defensive Mobility gives you another +2 defense against AoO.

This AoO-proof defense is important. Start the fights by trying to close in on your quarry, and get your Paladin to mark it. Shift around until you have Combat Advantage against the thing, and let loose your more powerful attacks. If it tries to take the AoO, it's been marked and has to deal with both the Paladin's mark and your Defensive Mobility. That's a -20% (-4) to hit right there. When you're adjacent to the enemy, your Prime Shot kicks in, so you have an extra +1 against the enemy. Combined with Combat Advantage, that's an extra +15% (+3) to hit.

Regardless of whether you want to switch to archery, take Bastard or Long swords over Broadswords. The +1 to hit from Bastard Swords is well worth the feat, and you need to hit in order to deal damage.

If all backgrounds are available to you (and nothing's set in stone yet), take one of the Characters of War backgrounds, specifically Born Under a Bad Sign or Auspicious Birth. They grant you the ability to swap your highest ability score in for HP rather than Con, making the character a lot hardier... even if you end up with a few fewer healing surges, since you're lacking a true Leader.

Kurald Galain
2009-01-05, 06:02 AM
Elf ranger is a good combo.

However, I'd suggest picking either melee or archery (you said melee in your OP) and sticking with that; that means that yes, you can play a strength-based ranger and sink your dexterity. Carry a heavy thrown weapon in case you need ranged attacks (which should be rarely).

I'd recommend to go strength 18, because you're a striker and want your to-hit as high as possible. Drop dex to accomodate. Put your level boosts in str and wis. Consider taking armor proficiency to compensate for not boosting your dex all that much.

Pit fighter is a good choice. So is storm warden, though. If you are going fighter, consider taking one of those power swap feats, the fighter class has a few good stances you may want.

Your feats could use some work. I'd recommend against Elven Precision - it only very rarely makes a difference, and there are better feats. Early on, Sneak of Shadows is a very nice damage boost; you can take that early and retrain it at #10, and it fits with skillmonkeying. And yes, you'll eventually want scimitar dance.

I'd say,
1. Sneak of shadows
2. Armor proficiency
4. Weapon focus
6. Skill (thievery)
8. There's a feat in Martial Power that gives you +5 on saves against stun and immobilize (Martial Freedom, or something). Very useful!
10. retrain Sneak of Shadows to Student of the Sword, and add Lethal Hunter

Oh yeah, in terms of tactics, remember you can Bull Rush. I'd suggest listing it with your at-will powers. In terms of powers, I'd recommend Crucial Advice at level two, and the interrupt one at level three.

Fogel
2009-01-05, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the comments.

I'm really having a hard time deciding which style I'll be using. I'll probably just have to jump and try one. Let's say melee ;)

So, from what I read, Bastard swords seems to be really worth a feat, so let's add it to the list. If I'm going melee, should I really drop Dex and grab armor profiency feats? Using the stats above I would get 1AC and -1 speed with two feats (Armor Proficiency Chainmail and Scale). I'm not sure if it's actually a good tradeoff. The difference in AC increases as we level?

@Kurald : Thanks for your feat suggestions. May I ask why sneak of shadows would be a good idea for a melee ranger? I had already thought about it but when I found that Sneak Attack could only be made with light blade or crossbows, I couldn't get myself to grab it, even just for the Thievery skill.

Let's try another feat progression :

[Rgr] Toughness
[1st] Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
[2nd] Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
[4th] Skill Training (Thievery)
[6th] Brutal Accuracy (WIS is gonna be higher if I'm going Pit fighter)
[8th] Lethal Hunter
[10th] Student of the sword

Is there anything else I need to look at? I might not understand the long-term benefits of armor proficiency or some other stuff.

Keep the comments going, it's much appreciated ;)

Kurald Galain
2009-01-05, 10:54 AM
If I'm going melee, should I really drop Dex and grab armor profiency feats?
Essentially, yes. Your boosts would go to str and wis, which means that at moderate-to-high levels, your AC will lag behind unless you take (magical) heavy armor.


May I ask why sneak of shadows would be a good idea for a melee ranger?
Primarily if (as Hal suggested) you take an animal companion; because if you do, you're stuck with at least one light weapon for TWF.


Remember that a bonus to hit is much better than a bonus to damage. Because you'll do zero damage if you don't hit. Unfortunately, there aren't all that many feats that boost your to-hit.

Mando Knight
2009-01-05, 11:51 AM
Using the stats above I would get 1AC and -1 speed with two feats (Armor Proficiency Chainmail and Scale). I'm not sure if it's actually a good tradeoff. The difference in AC increases as we level?

Very much yes. Look at the PHB. All of the heavy armors have a much higher armor growth rate compared to the light armors: whereas hide only gets one or two extra points, the heavy armors gain six.

If you're concerned about your AC, use a Double Sword, which has the Defensive property... and counts as both light and heavy blades (useful for some of the Fighter powers).