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String
2009-01-05, 12:42 AM
Looking over Pg 56 of the Players Handbook, I came across an interesting observation. No where in the description for "Melee Weapon" "Melee 1" or the ranged version, does it say you must use a melee weapon for powers with the aforementioned keywords, despite how RAI it may seem. Now, looking through the Combat chapter, I can't seem to find any penalties for using Ranged weapons in melee...Now, I know that the enemy would still have to be adjacent for the powers to take effect, but would it be RAW Abuse to rule that I can use (for example) Gaurded Attack (warlord encounter 1) with a Crossbow?

What if I changed it to Dexterity vs AC from Str?

CarpeGuitarrem
2009-01-05, 12:46 AM
One penalty.

Automatic attack of opportunity from all adjacent enemies.

Also, to use the weapon as a melee weapon, it would become an improvised weapon. i.e., you bludgeon them with your crossbow. No proficiency bonus.

String
2009-01-05, 12:55 AM
But couldn't I just shoot him? Why do I have to club the enemy?

Alright, OA from all adjacent. Thats something. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Edge of Dreams
2009-01-05, 12:58 AM
CapeGuitarrem has the correct interpretation. Shooting a ranged weapon provokes AoO, and using a crossbow with a "melee" power amounts to wacking someone with it as an improvised weapon. You should not be able to "shoot" a ranged weapon with a power with the melee keyword.

While you're right that it's an oversight that they didn't cover this issue in the appropriate part of the text, it does say on page 215 of the PHB, under "Weapon Categories" - "You can't use a ranged weapon as a melee weapon." That's a terrible place to put the rule, and it's not a great explanation, but it does close the loophole.

String
2009-01-05, 01:01 AM
Alright, thst clears it up. Thank you. There is an astounding lack of support for ranged Warlords and fighters.

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-05, 01:03 AM
Try pages 215 and 270.

Also, "You can’t use a ranged weapon as a melee weapon."

Artanis
2009-01-05, 01:06 AM
I guess they figured that archers would be Rangers. The classes are different from 3e's like that: you can call yourself whatever you want, and if you shoot things then you shoot things.

Edge of Dreams
2009-01-05, 01:11 AM
There is an astounding lack of support for ranged Warlords and fighters.

That is unfortunately true. While Warlords are very much a lead-from-the-front type class, not allowing fighters to be effective with ranged attacks is an unfortunate break from past editions. I've heard Martial Power adds a little support for Fighters with range, but still not enough for a full build. You could also try a ranger/fighter multiclass of some sort.

That said, houseruling a variant that lets this work would not be difficult nor terribly unbalanced. Here's an example of how it might work:

Archer Fighter: Choose this instead of Fighter Weapon Talent. This character may use fighter melee powers with a bow while in melee range. These powers do not provoke AoO for this character if he is using a bow.

Make some ranger powers or feats availiable to fighter, toss and salt to taste. There ya go, one homebrewed archer fighter.

EDIT: Of course, you may also want to include a str to dex swap. I just didn't feel like writing out a proper wording for that right now.