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alice_holbart
2009-01-05, 01:45 AM
Hello, rather new here but need some advice on GMing.

I've decide (in that special insane way that follows artist and writers) to run a game after being a player for a few years. It is an New WoD game* and though I have been in many a game I never run a game. I read the sticky on being a GM and talked to some of my friends about it but advice from others is appreciated.

It is going to be more storytelling than mechanics** and I am having trouble figuring out a cheat sheet for any fighting and rolls that I cannot avoid.

In advance thank you for all for the help, weather in this thread or the others I've been reading for a while***.


*To also state I do love both New and Old WoD for many different and same reasons and (unfortunately from what I heard from my boyfriend) I would like this to please not turn this into a New Vs. Old debate. It is just easer to run New for me.
**Part of it that I have a dyslexic problem with numbers and math.
***To the Moderators, I do hope I got everything right. I apologize if I screwed up somewhere.

lisiecki
2009-01-06, 11:24 AM
The combat chart is page 54.
For anything else, its your call on the relevant roll to make, as long as you and your players think it makes sense

potatocubed
2009-01-06, 12:11 PM
Yeah, mechanically WoD is very forgiving. Pick a stat and a skill, or (my technique) let your players suggest a stat and a skill*, then roll some dice and count the successes.

The only thing worth bearing in mind is that even with the forgiving combat system, fighting can get very dangerous, very quickly. Basically, PCs have enough health levels to soak up one hit, maybe two, and flee or dive for cover before they die. (Supernatural powers complicate this a bit, but it's still useful as a rule of thumb.)

As a result, I recommend favouring social conflicts and problem-solving over combat games.

*"Roll Presence + Awesome to impress the dude." "Can I roll Strength + Muscle Posing instead?" **

**Not having my WoD books handy, I've taken a few liberties with the skill names. But you get the idea, right?

Krrth
2009-01-06, 12:45 PM
Yeah, the generic roll is Stat+Skill+Equipment+misc. modifiers.

Just roll with what works. If your players want to use something off the wall, just decide if it seems logical.

Edit: Don't be afraid to add situational modifiers.

Strength+Intimidate probably doesn't work too well on a Were-Wolf, especially coming from a normal Human.

MickJay
2009-01-06, 02:19 PM
WoD is excellent in terms of simple mechanics and roleplaying potential, and you can further change/modify/simplify it according to your needs. I've played WoD sessions with very few dice rolls, even when they were mostly combat oriented.

What I did as GM was to simply copy the page with combat roll examples and modify stuff as needed, when needed.
(I had one player with tertiary physical stats and strength of 1, and she ended up using a modified light crossbow [dark ages setting], with lowered damage and loading time so she wouldn't be totally defenceless. The weapon was changed on a give-and-take basis to suit that particular player's needs, and ended up being realistically underpowered, but faster).

For everything else, rolls depended on what I considered most applicable in the situation, including hybrid rolls (e.g. str+dex+athletics or int+linguistics+computer) if the task wasn't complicated enough to require separate rolls for every part of it. Of course the number of needed successes and/or difficulty of the roll would be higher with more than 2 factors combined.

I've read about an interesting modification for WoD rolls: you throw all the dice (#=stat+skill), then take the highest-scoring dice equal to the skill value (e.g. with 2 int and 3 computer you roll 5 dice; you get 8, 7, 3, 3, 1, so the result is 8+7+3=18). You predetermine the score needed for a success (10 for very easy, 40 for ridiculously hard/hybrid, for example), and if the result is more than 10 points below the difficulty, it's a critical fail. On rolling a 10, you may allow an extra roll. Downside is that some relatively simple tasks will be impossible to perform if nobody has that particular skill, but there's a ton of possibilities to avoid this (e.g. take 1+N dice, where N is skill value - instead of N - and if N=0, add basic stat score to the result to see if they got result to beat that 10 difficulty). Or you may assume that an "easy 10" doesn't need a roll to succeed and even untrained person can cope easily, while eveything that requires some knowledge/skill to overcome calls for a roll.

RPGuru1331
2009-01-06, 03:47 PM
I can't help you with a cheat sheet for combat, but for general mechanics, yes, it's pretty much going to be stat + ability + mods (Equipment's a modifier).

What kind of game will you run? I can't help with mortals (I'm more on the 'Frightened' end of Horror then the 'Frightener'), but if it's something else, I should have something to say.

Kurald Galain
2009-01-06, 06:33 PM
I've read about an interesting modification for WoD rolls: you throw all the dice (#=stat+skill), then take the highest-scoring dice equal to the skill value (e.g. with 2 int and 3 computer you roll 5 dice; you get 8, 7, 3, 3, 1, so the result is 8+7+3=18).
Wait, what does that add to the game? It seems like yet another complication, as if statistics in White Wolf weren't confusing enough already.

(pop quiz for oWOD: if for some test I roll five dice against difficulty 7, and the DM wishes to make it somewhat harder to succeed; should he (a) raise the difficulty level, (b) require an extra success, or (c) reduce dice pool by one?)

MickJay
2009-01-06, 10:56 PM
The system, as I understand, is supposed to replace all rolls, including combat rolls, and is supposed to provide greater flexibility in setting difficulty. When I looked at it for the first time it looked simpler than the official system, maybe I just can't sell it ;)

Depending on your storyteller, it can significantly reduce number of throws. You can perform complex actions that would require numerous throws with a single combined roll. It makes impossible for players with no knowledge in an area perform difficult feats (by sheer luck and high stat score) that would realistically require at least some expertise. You don't have problems with "how to adjust difficulty" because you have just one variable you can change ;)

As for your question, simple answer: storyteller can do whatever he wants when setting the odds.

Long answer: I would almost never reduce the number of dice available (it's like saying "oh, while performing this task, you're dumber/clumsier/uglier than usual"). This, of course, can be true in some circumstances, but an extra success or higher difficulty tend to make much more sense.

Also, how many successes do you need for the action you mentioned, is a single one sufficient to resolve the situation fully/with best result? If yes, and it's supposed to be slightly more difficult, then at dif. 7 I'd ask for another success (since you'll probably get it), if you need 2, I'd raise difficulty by 1 for small increase and ask for third success (dif. 7) for a significant increase.

Usually if I had a problem with setting difficulty I'd try to figure out how likely a human expert would be to succeed and what throws he would have to make. Example: you're in a considerably large private library that has no visible catalogue and you're looking for an ordinary, but rare, book; you have roughly 20 minutes before a servant returns, and you can't be seen. A librarian would quickly recognise the storing system (simple decimal system) and navigate his way. In this case, he'd likely have 3 (intelligence) + 4 (appropriate knowledge) dice, and a difficulty of no more than 5, with no more than 2 successes required. He's very likely to succeed, failure could mean that he didn't recognize some modification to the system, or the servant returned earlier than expected.

You, on the other hand, are a neonate eager to prove your worth, with an artistic background. Let's say 2 intelligence, no more than 2 knowledge allowing you to work your way around normal libraries, and no obvious specialisation in the area. Either the difficulty is 7 with 2 successed needed, or 6 and 3 (let's say 7 and 2). You will likely recognise the system, but are far less likely to know what signature the book would have, so you'll need to navigate more or less blindly searching for subject area, and then look through the titles carefully; this will take time, and you might not make it.

But wait, you're a vampire, right? What disciplines have you got? Auspex on 1? OK, that helps in looking for stuff, heightened senses allow you to look through titles much faster, so the roll difficulty is lowered by 1. If you fail, you may suggest that you will be using your Presence of 3 to entrance the servant when he returns, and gain enough extra time to repeat the search. This option may increase the risk of detection, but additional searching will not be more difficult (maybe even easier, if you had some success). If you played Entrancement really well, success (if any) is added to the new rolls, if there were none, you get another -1 to difficulty. If you did OK, you get to repeat the throws, if so-so - you're nervous the servant might snap out of trance and roll at +1. Playing Presence dumb makes you flee the site in panic (though your powers were enough to ensure that the servant won't remember you).

Alternatively, whole task might be a prolonged action, with repeated throws and a higher number of successes to accumulate. 4 series of throws, with a total of 10 successes needed.

^ which goes to show that the system I mentioned at the beginning can, indeed, make things simpler if you want to concentrate on the story and roleplaying :smallwink:

lisiecki
2009-01-06, 10:58 PM
WoD is excellent in terms of simple mechanics and roleplaying potential, and you can further change/modify/simplify it according to your needs. I've played WoD sessions with very few dice rolls, even when they were mostly combat oriented.

What I did as GM was to simply copy the page with combat roll examples and modify stuff as needed, when needed.
(I had one player with tertiary physical stats and strength of 1, and she ended up using a modified light crossbow [dark ages setting], with lowered damage and loading time so she wouldn't be totally defenceless. The weapon was changed on a give-and-take basis to suit that particular player's needs, and ended up being realistically underpowered, but faster).

For everything else, rolls depended on what I considered most applicable in the situation, including hybrid rolls (e.g. str+dex+athletics or int+linguistics+computer) if the task wasn't complicated enough to require separate rolls for every part of it. Of course the number of needed successes and/or difficulty of the roll would be higher with more than 2 factors combined.

I've read about an interesting modification for WoD rolls: you throw all the dice (#=stat+skill), then take the highest-scoring dice equal to the skill value (e.g. with 2 int and 3 computer you roll 5 dice; you get 8, 7, 3, 3, 1, so the result is 8+7+3=18). You predetermine the score needed for a success (10 for very easy, 40 for ridiculously hard/hybrid, for example), and if the result is more than 10 points below the difficulty, it's a critical fail. On rolling a 10, you may allow an extra roll. Downside is that some relatively simple tasks will be impossible to perform if nobody has that particular skill, but there's a ton of possibilities to avoid this (e.g. take 1+N dice, where N is skill value - instead of N - and if N=0, add basic stat score to the result to see if they got result to beat that 10 difficulty). Or you may assume that an "easy 10" doesn't need a roll to succeed and even untrained person can cope easily, while eveything that requires some knowledge/skill to overcome calls for a roll.

My brain hurts just reading that
I don't think thats what any one is looking for when they say they want a math light game because there dyslexic

MickJay
2009-01-06, 11:08 PM
To my best knowledge, it is simpler than the official system. You have basic stats (strength, intelligence and so on) and skills/knowledges/talents.

1. For any roll, you take one stat and one skill and roll that many dice.

2. You then pick a the best results and add them up; number of dice you're adding is equal to your skill value.

3. If the number you get is higher than the difficulty you set earlier, it's a success, if it's lower, it's fail, if much lower, critical fail.

Rest of the stuff is just detailed examples on how it can be used and modified to suit storyteller and players better.

lisiecki
2009-01-06, 11:10 PM
To my best knowledge, it is simpler than the official system. You have basic stats (strength, intelligence and so on) and skills/knowledges/talents.
1. For any roll, you take one stat and one skill and roll that many dice.
2. You then pick a the best results and add them up; number of dice you're adding is equal to your skill value.
3. If the number you get is higher than the difficulty you set earlier, it's a success, if it's lower, it's fail, if much lower, critical fail.
Rest of the stuff is just detailed examples on how it can be used and modified to suit storyteller and players better.

the offiicial system being

1. For any roll, you take one stat and one skill and roll that many dice.
2. Count the number of 8 9 and 0's you see
3. Reroll the 0s


skills/knowledges/talents.

huh?
What are those?
Well, i mean skills are skills and the rest are?

MickJay
2009-01-07, 12:12 AM
huh?
What are those?
Well, i mean skills are skills and the rest are?

"skills" used to be called "abilities" and division of "abilities" was to skills, knowledges and talents, like now it's to physical, mental and social, I used the old names out of habit.

The official system makes it sometimes difficult to make minor adjustments to difficulty; using the system I mentioned makes it simpler. It also reduces the risk of getting a critical failure, which in opinion of the people I played with was happening simply too often, given the catastrophic results. The amount of "bad luck" in situations where realistically a character would be very likely succeed was just scary. Maybe that's just the experience of my gaming group, since the storyteller tried to emphasise the effect of critical failures :smalltongue:

All in all, from my perspective this system allows a better balanced and realistic mechanics with slightly less randomness and without making things too complicated. It's actual usefulness depends on the style of storytelling.

lisiecki
2009-01-07, 01:06 AM
"skills" used to be called "abilities" and division of "abilities" was to skills, knowledges and talents, like now it's to physical, mental and social, I used the old names out of habit.

Fair play. I never dealt with the old system, my brain always turned off people got to the ninja muslums


The official system makes it sometimes difficult to make minor adjustments to difficulty; using the system I mentioned makes it simpler. It also reduces the risk of getting a critical failure, which in opinion of the people I played with was happening simply too often, given the catastrophic results. The amount of "bad luck" in situations where realistically a character would be very likely succeed was just scary. Maybe that's just the experience of my gaming group, since the storyteller tried to emphasise the effect of critical failures :smalltongue:
All in all, from my perspective this system allows a better balanced and realistic mechanics with slightly less randomness and without making things too complicated. It's actual usefulness depends on the style of storytelling.
Ok I can see that, and that may be more "Realistic" than the default system but its not... simpler.

It is going to be more storytelling than mechanics** and I am having trouble figuring out a cheat sheet for any fighting and rolls that I cannot avoid.

This really dons't sound like like a ST who wants to try out a new way of rolling but one who needs to know.
1) for combat use the chart on page 54
2) For any and all other challenges roll an attribute that makes sence + a skill that makes sense.
One 8 9 or 10 means a success, the rest is cake.
when two people are challenging one another, have them roll attribute and stat. who ever rolls more successes wins. Ties go to the defender.

I mean honestly, I really cant think of a system that's simpler. (although im sure there are several)

LCR
2009-01-07, 01:29 AM
I just wanted to add that the mathematical equivalent of dyslexia is called dyscalculia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia).
It's supposed to be rarer than dyslexia, maybe because it is socially more acceptable to "suck at maths", while most people will frown at you if you make spelling errors and thus not diagnosed as often, although this is speculation on my part.

alice_holbart
2009-01-07, 01:39 AM
Cool. Though I checked my New WoD book, pg. 54 is something completely different but I can find it somewhere now I know what to look for.

Presence + Awesome: (Potatocube I got to use that if you don't mind.)

Micjay is that Old WoD mechanics? Because I don't recall making rolls like for the longest time (and I had my GM interpreting those rolls).

Lisieck and RPguru1331: Thanks for making things a bit simpler. It does really help. *scribbles notes* But Ninja Muslums?

The only thing I can think of (since it was asked) is that if someone wants to be a Vampire in the (mix) game, how do I compassionate for the half of the time that s/he going to be out of commission?

alice_holbart
2009-01-07, 01:56 AM
Dyscalculia? That the name of it.
I am diagnose Dyslexic but since my mum has a sever case of it and her remedy before I was diagnose was to be taught to read then thrown into the libraries and encourage to read anything on the children's floor. So I ended up reading well and a lot. The numbers was and is a continual problem since it was more important that I read than to be proficient at math.
Though the page that LCR does give better insight to the problem. I'll have to look more into that.

lisiecki
2009-01-07, 02:04 AM
Cool. Though I checked my New WoD book, pg. 54 is something completely different but I can find it somewhere now I know what to look for.
Lisieck and RPguru1331: Thanks for making things a bit simpler. It does really help. *scribbles notes* But Ninja Muslums?
The only thing I can think of (since it was asked) is that if someone wants to be a Vampire in the (mix) game, how do I compassionate for the half of the time that s/he going to be out of commission?

ahh the chart is on page 154

And there not REALLY ninjas
and there not REALLY muslums
there just fanatical killers from the middle east, who can blend in to shadows, and what to kill EVERYONE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assamite

A vampire is going have FAR more raw power than humans in your game, and since im a jerk i would say that that compinsates them right there.
if they really want to be active in the day, the only way i would go for that is if they bought a ghoul

RPGuru1331
2009-01-07, 02:04 AM
But Ninja Muslums?
The Ahl-I-Batin. I don't know what that guy's talking about, the Batini are friggin' awesome. I mean really, this is oWoD. It was slightly ridiculous anyway.


The only thing I can think of (since it was asked) is that if someone wants to be a Vampire in the (mix) game, how do I compassionate for the half of the time that s/he going to be out of commission?

The first words out of my mouth are "Don't", really. Unless everyone else spends most of their day in a day job (Not improbable, in the WoD) then I'd just handwave it away as "Our Vampires are slightly different". Basically, if the daytime hours are relevant, get rid of it. If they're not, don't. Frankly, they probably are, though.

What sort of Mix? nWoD plays a bit better with a mix then oWod, but it's not by any means perfect. Vampire and Mortals, for instance...

But Vampire and other supernaturals? Just kill the daylight restriction

Semidi
2009-01-07, 02:09 AM
The only thing I can think of (since it was asked) is that if someone wants to be a Vampire in the (mix) game, how do I compassionate for the half of the time that s/he going to be out of commission?

Have the vampire be a Ventrue (or a bloodline with Dominate such as Toreador) and possess a ghoul during the day.

... Or don't run mixed games. In my opinion, it ruins a lot of the flavor of WoD to have more than brief (or hostile) encounters with other supernaturals. But ya'know, whatever is fun for your group.

alice_holbart
2009-01-07, 02:57 AM
Ohhhh, Assimites. Okay now I get it. I keep thinking Children of Ahalkim (is it spelled right?) from my LARP. Cool, got it.

As asked about why a mix group. Considering I am a Changeling Fan, one who wants to play Werewolf and one to be a Mage (with suggestions of a Promethan background *cough plot bitch cough*) I figured to have more fun when things collide. It also makes since since supernaturals don't live in a vacuum and do interact at times is what I find rather interesting. That and I am very sadistic on myself and others and can't keep things simple.

Though if I do alter the daylight restrictions, I will not make them sparkle.
mummermummer there are other good supernatural books out there mummermummer

lisiecki
2009-01-07, 05:42 AM
Ohhhh, Assimites. Okay now I get it. I keep thinking Children of Ahalkim (is it spelled right?) from my LARP. Cool, got it.

From what i can tell the whole Owod was like that.

Tough Gypsy vampires
deceitful gypsy vampires
insane vampires who had mystical insight
Drunken Irish werewolves
violent German werewolves
violent men hating feminist vampires

Oh and at EVERY larp people talked me in to going to in the 90s, at least one tentacle rapist shadow vampire

Yep, games for mature minds...

every time some one talked to me about it there was a new reason to say no.
However these days, if nothing else, changeling is really really neat

Kurald Galain
2009-01-07, 07:07 AM
The Ahl-I-Batin. I don't know what that guy's talking about, the Batini are friggin' awesome. I mean really, this is oWoD. It was slightly ridiculous anyway.
Nope, he's referring to the Assamites, who are substantially less awesome (not to mention a munchkin-attracting cliche) than the Batini.


And yeah, oWOD doesn't do crossovers well, neither from fluff nor from crunch.

Terraoblivion
2009-01-07, 07:11 AM
The violent, men-hating feminists were werewolves. Though how men-hating they were depended on what supplement you read. According to their tribe book they casually murdered men who they found disrespectful to women, most other supplements portrayed them somewhat more sane.

Kurald Galain
2009-01-07, 07:35 AM
The violent, men-hating feminists were werewolves. Though how men-hating they were depended on what supplement you read. According to their tribe book they casually murdered men who they found disrespectful to women, most other supplements portrayed them somewhat more sane.
Also, the Black Furies are highly spiritual, strong caern protectors, and tend to take care of male metis (since by their reasoning, metis are sterile and therefore not technically male).

Bear in mind that all werewolves are, to lesser or greater extent, violent and something-hating (just like pretty much all vampires are deceitful). In other words, lisiecky's post is rather like stating how "some rivers contain water".

RPGuru1331
2009-01-07, 07:41 AM
From what i can tell the whole Owod was like that.

Yes. Yes it was. It was also fun. So's nWoD though, so that part never actually changed.

If you've got multiple Supernaturals, Alice, just go ahead and lift the daytime restrictions, if your group's comfortable with it. Otherwise.. well again, dayjobs (maybe), so you should still be able to work the fewer daylight hours in with a thrall of some sort. Still, I prefer just lifting the restriction. Other settings do it besides settings that don't really involve vampires.

lisiecki
2009-01-07, 07:42 AM
Also, the Black Furies are highly spiritual, strong caern protectors, and tend to take care of male metis (since by their reasoning, metis are sterile and therefore not technically male).Bear in mind that all werewolves are, to lesser or greater extent, violent and something-hating (just like pretty much all vampires are deceitful). In other words, lisiecky's post is rather like stating how "some rivers contain water".

Well
some of them do :P

What I'm saying is that every time some one tried to explain to me how cool something was in the WoD, it just struck me as shallow. Well maybe not shallow... I just can't think of the words to use when in one breath there telling us how the crazy vampires should never be played for laughs, and in the next, there's a crayon picture
From what i recall of the Black Furies, they were ready to gut men for using pick up lines.
Of cores I may be wrong, that was at least 15 years ago or so.

And honestly the shadow tentacle rapists... I mean HAVE to assume that was just the players having deep seated issues, and wasn't actually in the game, right?

lisiecki
2009-01-07, 07:57 AM
Yes. Yes it was. It was also fun. So's nWoD though, so that part never actually changed.

If you've got multiple Supernaturals, Alice, just go ahead and lift the daytime restrictions, if your group's comfortable with it. Otherwise.. well again, dayjobs (maybe), so you should still be able to work the fewer daylight hours in with a thrall of some sort. Still, I prefer just lifting the restriction. Other settings do it besides settings that don't really involve vampires.

I could never get in to it. I'm not trying to come off as "bad wrong fun". but i really think that I would have liked it better if the selling point was "Vampires battle it out on the streets of Detroit, damn that explains alot"

I dono, me are not articulating my self good today, but the class is watching a movie, so i have time to randomly post.

Im going to have to disaggre on lifting the restrictions though.
IMO thats something that a vampire player should have to deal with.
Changelings dont have SSN #'s.
Werewolves have to worry about gutting people if they get cut off in traffic.
One of the things I have had fun doing in the NWOD in vampire games, is calling the local cops at 3pm and telling them "Ya at 1234 main street, i saw the guy who lives there unloading a lot of duffel bags, when one of them spilled out, there were a bunch of really big guns..."

Kurald Galain
2009-01-07, 07:57 AM
What I'm saying is that every time some one tried to explain to me how cool something was in the WoD, it just struck me as shallow. Well maybe not shallow... I just can't think of the words to use when in one breath there telling us how the crazy vampires should never be played for laughs, and in the next, there's a crayon picture
I don't think the WOD is shallow, or even all that much stereotypical. I do, however, think that a substantial amount of WOD players are shallow and/or play stereotypical characters. I'm afraid that goes for any system. (sidetrack: ever read the webcomic Elf Only Inn? It has a chatroom of Star Wars RP'ers, each of which is playing the same cliche Vader character...)

Also, in my experience, the kind of player that enthousiastically starts telling you everything about how cool his character is, is precisely the kind of player whom you really don't want to hear it from. There is a lot of cool stuff in the oWOD, but admittedly also several things that are best ignored or forgotten.

Certain vampire clans are overplayed by players who think it's ooooh so cool to be eeeevil (and, of course, who don't have a clue on how to RP that other than by being an omnicidal maniac). Likewise, Malkavians are overplayed by players who think they're all raving lunatics (which is precisely not how to play a Malkav). So yeah.

FWIW, "shadow tentacles" exist in OWOD, as part of the Obtenebration discipline, IIRC (which, incidentally, is a rather lame discipline to begin with). The "rape" part, however, is just the player having issues.

potatocubed
2009-01-07, 07:59 AM
Well, the whole shadow tentacle thing was possible with obtenebration but just because you can doesn't mean you should, as the saying goes.

NWoD isn't bad for crossovers; Shadows of the UK makes the point that any large city is going to attract so many werewolves, vampires and mages that they can't help but trip over each other from time to time. Not to mention all the other weird stuff kicking about.

I'd still not run a mixed group, though, but that's more of a personal preference of mine than anything.

RPGuru1331
2009-01-07, 08:03 AM
Im going to have to disaggre on lifting the restrictions though.
IMO thats something that a vampire player should have to deal with.
Changelings dont have SSN #'s.
Werewolves have to worry about gutting people if they get cut off in traffic.
One of the things I have had fun doing in the NWOD in vampire games, is calling the local cops at 3pm and telling them "Ya at 1234 main street, i saw the guy who lives there unloading a lot of duffel bags, when one of them spilled out, there were a bunch of really big guns..."

Er... Changelings have SSNs (The trick is that someone else is ALSO using it). Werewolves don't generally slay people on a whim, etc. It's not really a 'restriction' in the day to day life of a Vampire when they're only dealing with Vampires, since EVERYONE takes it, but in the life of a vampire dealing with non vamps, we start to have issues.

Kurald Galain
2009-01-07, 08:14 AM
Im going to have to disaggre on lifting the restrictions though.
IMO thats something that a vampire player should have to deal with.
Of course.

But then, most changelings do have SSNs (except those that were taken from Earth before the invention of SSNs).

A Garou going into frenzy in a traffic jam? Well, first, Garou don't travel that way (they have the Umbra, and the Technocracy after them, and an aversion from weaver-tech), except if they're Glass Walkers; and most sensible Garou (and especially Glass Walkers) don't have that high a Rage rating. So it's not that big an issue.

lisiecki
2009-01-07, 08:15 AM
I don't think the WOD is shallow, or even all that much stereotypical. I do, however, think that a substantial amount of WOD players are shallow and/or play stereotypical characters. I'm afraid that goes for any system. (sidetrack: ever read the webcomic Elf Only Inn? It has a chatroom of Star Wars RP'ers, each of which is playing the same cliche Vader character...)

True but that is the problem with roleplayers Vs there setting. After 4-5 diffrent shadowrun groups i started reading the books as "novels" to avioid having to deal with people destroying my version of the setting.


Also, in my experience, the kind of player that enthousiastically starts telling you everything about how cool his character is, is precisely the kind of player whom you really don't want to hear it from. There is a lot of cool stuff in the oWOD, but admittedly also several things that are best ignored or forgotten.

You have me there, thats typical of any setting really


Certain vampire clans are overplayed by players who think it's ooooh so cool to be eeeevil (and, of course, who don't have a clue on how to RP that other than by being an omnicidal maniac). Likewise, Malkavians are overplayed by players who think they're all raving lunatics (which is precisely not how to play a Malkav). So yeah.

Ya, but i remember the clan book. It was all "Malks are searious, there really searious, you have no idea how searious they are, oh and here are some rainbows drawn in crayon


FWIW, "shadow tentacles" exist in OWOD, as part of the Obtenebration discipline, IIRC (which, incidentally, is a rather lame discipline to begin with). The "rape" part, however, is just the player having issues.

Well, the whole shadow tentacle thing was possible with obtenebration but just because you can doesn't mean you should, as the saying goes.
Oh teenage boys, how i miss them. It happend to me once, I spent the blood, and healed the damage.
He seemed upset that i wasnt upset about it, but, everything i had ever read stated that the genitals of V:TM vampires were d e d dead

Quincunx
2009-01-07, 08:41 AM
If your math is shaky, let your players know that, and also impress upon them that trying to immediately resolve an argument about success or failure is going to take too much time and destroy the flow of the story, so jot down any complaints and give it to you after the game. If they try to continue arguing during the course of the game, blank them out, talk over them, and keep on tapping that complaint paper. It's heavy-handed, but if you're new to being the Storyteller, you at least deserve a few sessions where the only problems are in-game problems. Important--this is only for out-of-character complaints!

lisiecki
2009-01-07, 08:59 AM
Lisieck and RPguru1331: Thanks for making things a bit simpler. It does really help. *scribbles notes* But Ninja Muslums?

Your quite welcome, But if you really want to thank me, punish your players for taking striking looks.

While i have learned to really enjoy the NWOD. Every time i go to a larp EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has SL 4.
The last time that happend, I climed up on a table and anounced how i wanted to****, opps, i mean make beautiful love to every one there...


Also, this is just my advice, don't mix the game lines. From a "gothic horror" stand point the trials of each group dont mesh well with the other, at least if you want to do "The wold of darkness"

IF your going for "the world of awsome" then go for it, but leave the goth horror at the door.
Its like my grandma used to say "Lisiecki" she would say "theres nothing mature about fake rubber genitals, there fun, but not mature"

MickJay
2009-01-07, 08:26 PM
The system with adding values of dice to get a score over the set difficulty I described was a home-brewed alternative to official one. The library situation was based on oWoD mechanics, but in a rather detailed example.

Presence is awesome, but almost any discipline has great potential (player's imagination and cunning the limit) and can be used in lots of (often unexpected) circumstances. Basically, the less direct the discipline is in its application, the greater its potential in (almost) any non-combat situation.

alice_holbart
2009-01-07, 08:34 PM
Quincunx: Luckily the group I'm in knows about my numbers problem and is willing to work with (or around) it. They also know that I am more into storytelling than seeing who has the bigger dice pool (ahh men...). Except when it comes to combat and perception checks, which they want to do a lot of.

Thanks for the advice about the vampires. I only ask in case someone decides to be one. For the most part I'm the only one in the group that likes Vampire (and dislike Werewolf) but I think I'll go by the whole weaker in sunlight than spontaneous combustion (except for Meket, sorry guys) and it will go better with the older legends of Vampires.

I know people suggested not running a mix game (and I do thank you for the advice) but I figured since the group never take a game fully seriously and I tend to be over run with ideas, lots of ideas....

The LARP I am in is pretty cool now about a lot of things now from what I heard about the past crap. There hasn't been too broken characters (N/PC wise) and everyone is levelheaded about the whole thing. I tend to stay away from the drama (which happens in large social groups of any kind from what I seen and experienced) and use it to work out some social issues that I have due to undiagnosed social (or mental) problems. I really haven't see people take it to the extreme (blurring the lines of game and real life) and that if deemed so, for whatever reason, characters do get killed and the people come back with new characters the following game or leave due to real life circumstances coming into play.
But from what I heard, I must have come into it after all the issues got mostly sorted out. Meh.

"Vampires battle it out on the streets of Detr... San Fransisco." If you don't mind I rather nick that idea Lisiecki. *evil grin*

lisiecki
2009-01-09, 11:36 AM
"Vampires battle it out on the streets of Detr... San Fransisco." If you don't mind I rather nick that idea Lisiecki. *evil grin*

Oh, feel free to use it, I encoruage it. Honestly the WoD in play never balances out to as, well as nasty as it is in my head. I personally like vampires not being around in the daylight, it helps with the dirty tricks you can play on them. It has always been a favored tactic of mine for my PC's to employ hit squads to take out rivals during the day.
Of corse in the few oWoD games i played, my PCs would perform public attacks on other vampires,. Its always fun to assassinate a vampire with a well known public image in the middle of a media event, and watching the player justify his PC coming back in to public world after having been had several M16s emptied in to him at the premeire of "cats".
Since you are going to have vampires active during the day, please do remember that, vampires are limited to a dice pool no higher than there humanity when performing social challanges with mortals. I know you like dice lite games, but IMO its the only factor left that balances vampires to mortals to a decent degree.

Krrth
2009-01-09, 01:46 PM
Actually, mixed games can be fun. As long as the players put a little effort into the characters.

In OWoD, don't mix Vampires and Werewolves, or any of the different groups of those species (Black Spirals and Normal, Sabat and Camarilla).

In NWoD, don't mix Promethians and anything.

RPGuru1331
2009-01-09, 11:19 PM
Since you are going to have vampires active during the day, please do remember that, vampires are limited to a dice pool no higher than there humanity when performing social challanges with mortals. I know you like dice lite games, but IMO its the only factor left that balances vampires to mortals to a decent degree.

It's worth mentioning that she isn't balancing Mortals to Vampires; Its' to other Supernaturals.

alice_holbart
2009-01-11, 01:15 PM
Well, I am going to be sever on the Vampire powers in daylight. I might halve there humanity and say good luck to the whole thing. Or maybe they get a basic power and not the rest. Also it depends on the daylight: cloudy days, more likely to be out; nice sunny days in the summer, do you really want those second/third degree burns...

Krrth: I am willing to try on Promethean. Promethean comes into town, Disquiet happens, hilarity ensues. Promethean leaves town, Wasteland effect happens, hilarity ensues...

I have to remember that my group goes for more of the awesome than to the tragic...

Which make me think of another question (unless I am really pushing some rules here) How would a Mage, if he figures it out, try to negate the Wasteland effect?

RPGuru1331
2009-01-11, 03:16 PM
You're limiting her power in daylight? That's... pretty reasonable, compared to sticking to the book.

A Mage negating a wasteland.. I would say Death/Prime/Mind. Yes, all of them. Also for the record, I think the mage who controlled the first Tammuz was using Matter/Prime, but that's just me. Usually though, the Wasteland comes when the Promethean stays, not after leaving.

Monney Dhoo
2009-01-11, 04:44 PM
If I remember correctly the presence of a Promethean causes Vampires to Frenzy and werewolves to shift in to Garu form and rip everything around ti to shreds. Hunters would also suffer from disquiet as mortals in my opinion (there are very little rules for between limited run games, though I could have missed it) and I don't remember any comments on their interaction with Changelings.

alice_holbart
2009-01-13, 12:59 PM
RPguru1331: Sorry, I forgot that detail. I was just paraphrasing how to put Promethean into a game. And yes I wold be that harsh, mostly because trying to manage Mage in a game is going to be loads of fun (note the dripping sarcasm...). Especially with one player who really loves Mage.

I have the Promethean book (it's somewhere in this stack) but I going back to see how those things work. I know that in certain cases that it Disquiet doesn't happen immediately and if I am wrong then I going to have to fiddle with those rules too. I am confining Promethean to NPC status so that they are not around all the time.

I do like Promethean and though I understand the point that the developers were trying to make, they really made it hard to have Promethean in anything.

Monney Dhoo
2009-01-13, 03:38 PM
Promethean is a great concept, though I think it is all but impossible to build a campaign around it other than a 1 on 1. Given the described numbers, even two in one place seems like a once every 20 odd year event and they just don't play nice with other supernaturals and even worse with mortals.

alice_holbart
2009-01-15, 12:33 AM
From what I read about Promethiean they are pretty rare though how rare is subject to debate (I think I'm giving about 20 tops at any point in the world at a time in my game). I do know that they do form Throngs (again rarer given the circumstances) but I don't want them to be absent. The chances of them being in the area of the game is slim (that is until I decides that they should get their butts down there).

But after talking with my Boyfriend about it he reminded me that humans and supernaturals do have to roll not to attack. I got to look more into it but if it comes down to it I going to have to do some fiddling with that too.

Boy I am doing a lot of tweaking for this game. Don't mind though.

I have one Promethean for a player's background (amnesia is so much fun...) and two more might swing by at one point. That is just about it. I just like that they should be represented in the game and give me a chance on see how they would work.