HALP!!! Need to kill Orcus!!! How!?!?![4*gah!*E]

[DragonBaneDM]

Thank you thank you thank you for opening this thread!!!

...

IF you can help me. Okay, here's the setup, he's got his basic encounter group:

Orcus (duh)
2 Atropal Abominations (NOOO!!!)
8 Lich Vestiges(Crud!!!)

Now, here's what we are armed with:

Martial Power & Adventurer's Vault(Thank the Raven Queen!)
5 Players (2 Geniuses, and 3 halfway good ones)
7 Magic Items (3 are allowed to be Level 30. We all are going to take Life Charms)

We were thinking this for classes:

An Eladrin TacLord taking Legendary General with a Death Defying Cloak. He'll be teleporting us and Orcus every which way!!!

A Minotaur Guardian Fighter going Adamantite Soldier with Tarrasque Plate, awesome shield, a good one hander, and a Reach Weapon just in case I have to chase down Tail Sweeping Orcus...

A Bugbear Rogue who's simply there for damage. And the stat screws will be an extra kick to Orcus's abyssal crotch!

A Beastmaster Ranger to get the extra damage and melee support via Beast. Nerfed Blade Cascade to 5 hits... Darn.

Another Eladrin. This time Control Wizard going StormSpell Mage. Minion and temporary Atropal control.

The basic strategy is as follows:

Legendary General means we can't die as long as he is concious.
Give him a Death Defying Cloak and all of us Life Charms.
Thus we apparently cannot die...
Have the Taclord pull Orcus to us, and push all the Atropals and minions back behind his throne, pulls us into flanking for Rogue.
Fighter, me, locks down big red and ugly.
Wizard Storm Cages the minions and Atropals and procedes to Area Attack them.
Taclord also has Great Fortitude, great Fort, and some sort of armor giving him resist 15 necrotic and makes Orcus not attack him.
Procede to deal massive damage via me and the strikers.

Dead Orcus????

What can we do better? Do we NEED a cleric as bad as the Taclord is pushing me to get one? The Rogue and the Ranger do very little tactical wise, what can I do there?

HALP!!!!

[Callos_DeTerran]

what can I do there?

Now young fighter...you will die.



What? Did you expect something useful out of me? :smalltongue: How about this...

'Why are you fighting Orcus in the first place?'

[Arros Winhadren]

My only advice is to kick the player who's playing the Bugbear Rogue in the balls.

[chiasaur11]

Isn't there an Orcus killer build floating around char-op boards?

Because with that, you might have a chance.

[DragonBaneDM]

'Why are you fighting Orcus in the first place?'

Hahaha, if you must know, a friend of mine is home from college for a few more weeks.

He wants to do something significant DND related before going back. He figured a one-shot fight against Orcus for Level 30s is perfect.

Yay us...

Me and my friend, the Warlord, have made it our life goal to break 4e.

What do you think of the Unkillable Guy who makes his friends Unkillable strategy?

[Gardakan]

If your DM is sadic... he just say... that was the son of Orcus... so you kill a part of family of Orcus...

[DragonBaneDM]

Isn't there an Orcus killer build floating around char-op boards?

Because with that, you might have a chance.

Blade Cascade is nerfed. Gone-zo.

And we can't expend all the Paladin encounters for the Elven Astral Demigod.

And we don't want one person to have all the fun! We want a pure optimized party. An unkillable Taclord. An amazing marker. Awesome damage. And better ways around Touch of Death.

C'mon, tell me you guys have stuff on this... I LOVE these threads! I've won like ten thunderdomes cause of tactics I've gotten from here.

But if anyone has a site with an Orcus killing build for a party on there, lemmee know! I'd love it!

[Nahal]

Hahaha, if you must know, a friend of mine is home from college for a few more weeks.

He wants to do something significant DND related before going back. He figured a one-shot fight against Orcus for Level 30s is perfect.

Yay us...

Me and my friend, the Warlord, have made it our life goal to break 4e.

What do you think of the Unkillable Guy who makes his friends Unkillable strategy?

That's better than what I've come up with, though that probably isn't saying much. I'm running an pally in a 4e PbP on the boards that can take well over 3.5x his maximum HP before going down (Demigod destiny + Amulet of the Unbroken + Kord's Favor + Soulforged Godplate + Belt of Vitality, plus second wind and potions). He's going to need it, since we're fighting Tiamat.

[DragonBaneDM]

He's going to need it, since we're fighting Tiamat.

That's his plan for over summer break....

That's why I don't just want stuff engineered for Orcus. I want just AMAZING ideas!!! Which I always can rely on finding here!

[Douglas]

*Ahem* Killing Tiamat in one round without infinite loops. With just three L27 warlords. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1115447)

Warlords are a tad bit too good at buffing the party, I think.

[SadisticFishing]

*Ahem* Killing Tiamat in one round without infinite loops. With just three L27 warlords. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1115447)

Warlords are a tad bit too good at buffing the party, I think.

No, stacking bonuses are a bit too good. Same name, don't let it stack. That's how I'd do it.

What do you mean 7 magic items?!?

[DragonBaneDM]

Oh, sorry. The magic items.

AKA our only chance....

Each player gets seven magic items. One armor and one weapon max. Which I just realized limits my reach strategy...

Gee, thanks...

Anywho, we get three at level 30 and the rest are level 29 down. We need Cloak of Death Defying or whatever for the Taclord so that we can stay unkillable.

We also are all getting Life Charms. Which apparently don't let us die. Woot? I dunno, I don't have Adventurerer's Vault... Any ideas?

[Break]

Once it's down to just Orcus, a Demigod Wizard can stunlock him with continuously recharging encounter powers. A Divine Oracle Demigod Cleric's Seal of Binding can do the same thing just by activating the regen power before going to town, but others can't beat on Orcus while that's happening.

[Nefarion Xid]

I'd suggest the Crown of Nature's Conversion (AV)...best necrotic resistance I can find right now. Or how about rounding up a few Skeletal Horses?

I want to say a Demigod Swordmage can go mono-a-mono with Orcus. Dimensional Charge should avoid Orcus' tail swipe and dish out decent damage after tossing out Vorpal Doom. At least...that's the goal. I'm afraid it will be a while before my swordmage hits level 30.

[KKL]

Take a Rogue, Artful Dodger is best for this.

Now hand him a Mindiron Superior Crossbow. Make him a Rogue/Ranger PMC for Twin Strike to make sure you'll hit. Make him pick up the level 10 Rattling Stance. Train him in Intimidate. Give him Psychic Lock too. Underhanded Tactics too.

Now, get him into flanking with Orcus, or grab CA in any way you can. Initiate the Rattling Stance and fire off a Twin Strike. Assuming both hit and you drop a dice of SA damage, you'll drop a total of -6 on Orcus. 2 Lock, 2 Rattling, and 2 Underhand.

Now, grab another Rogue. Make him a Rattling Rogue. Have him go into melee with a Gith Double Sword or a Gith Longsword with Longsword Finesse, but if you're going Longsword you'd have to be an Eladrin. In any case, do the same, except you don't need the Rattling stance much. Just land a Rattling attack to apply another -6 to his attack rolls. If you really want to hit, PMC Ranger for Twin Strike.

Now Orcus is running aorund with -12 to attack rolls on a consistant basis as long as both Rogues are hitting with their Rattling attacks.

Solo Brute? More like Solo Chump.

PSST: The Lich Vestiges are worthless, and the Atropals can be taken care of easily.

[Edge of Dreams]

Paladin going into Champion of Order paragon path for the power Certain Justice - it's str + 4 v. AC to hit, deals 1[w]+str damage, and the target is WEAKENED and DAZED until no longer marked by the paladin!!! This will massively reduce incoming damage from Orcus. Make sure the paladin has a +1 or better ranged weapon and/or a supply of javelins so that if he gets knocked away he can still attack from range to maintain the mark. The daze also means the whole party gets combat advantage and Orcus can't use any of his immediate interrupt or reaction powers.

[Ninetail]

The basic strategy is as follows:

Legendary General means we can't die as long as he is concious.
Give him a Death Defying Cloak and all of us Life Charms.
Thus we apparently cannot die...


Unfortunately, this isn't the case. It's pretty close, but it's not airtight. Here's where it falls apart:

Legendary General means you don't fall unconscious at 0 hp and can't die because of negative hp. Normally you'd still make death saving throws, and could die from those.

The Life Charms mean you automatically succeed at death saving throws. So nobody else can die while the warlord is alive. So far so good.

The Death-Defying Cloak allows the warlord to use an immediate interrupt when he would be reduced to 0 hp, placing him at 1 hp instead and turning him invisible. BUT: This is a daily power. He can only do it once.

Also, Orcus has an aura that causes 10 necrotic damage (20 when bloodied) to anyone within 20 squares of him at the start of each turn. This means that the warlord will die immediately on his first turn after the cloak saves him, unless he gets healed in the interim. So really all the cloak does is buy everyone whose initiative falls between the warlord's would-be death and the start of the warlord's next turn that one extra action. Then everyone's subject to death from negative hp again.



Taclord also has Great Fortitude, great Fort, and some sort of armor giving him resist 15 necrotic and makes Orcus not attack him.


You'd need resist 20 necrotic, as above -- and that's just for the aura. And how is he going to keep Orcus from attacking him? I don't think he can sustain that round after round. Orcus, with Int 25 and Wis 25, should fairly quickly notice that targeting the warlord is a good idea, and Touch of Death will ruin his day if it hits.

Also, are you sure even a taclord can pull Orcus while also neatly corralling ALL of the minions, in a short enough time period to make your strategy possible? Do you have a backup plan if you lose initiative? Even if you do win, how are you going to keep Orcus flanked, seeing that he can teleport and his Tail Lash is made to interfere with that sort of thing?

[Mando Knight]

Get an elven Ranger with a couple thousand arrows and a Greatbow.

Force Orcus into the air, then inflict slowing conditions on him.

Make him fly up 20 or so squares, then stun him.

If, however, you're stuck in a room with sides smaller than Orcus's maximum speed + 24, you're dead. Half of you is dead over here, half of you is undead over there, dead, dead, dead.

If Dragon magazine and Martial Power are allowed, make a character multiclassed into fighter (or straight up fighter...) with the feat from MP that turns an encounter power Reliable, then take the Mythic Sovereign Epic Destiny. Select the same power for both abilities (Blade Cascade?). Drop one of the minions, then activate your Sword of Valor power. Use your Dailies, then switch to your chosen encounter at-will power. Preferably, make a Paladin with Champion of Order, and select Certain Justice for the at-will-ification.

[7th lvl scrub]

Unfortunately, this isn't the case. It's pretty close, but it's not airtight. Here's where it falls apart:

Legendary General means you don't fall unconscious at 0 hp and can't die because of negative hp. Normally you'd still make death saving throws, and could die from those.

The Life Charms mean you automatically succeed at death saving throws. So nobody else can die while the warlord is alive. So far so good.

The Death-Defying Cloak allows the warlord to use an immediate interrupt when he would be reduced to 0 hp, placing him at 1 hp instead and turning him invisible. BUT: This is a daily power. He can only do it once.

Also, Orcus has an aura that causes 10 necrotic damage (20 when bloodied) to anyone within 20 squares of him at the start of each turn. This means that the warlord will die immediately on his first turn after the cloak saves him, unless he gets healed in the interim. So really all the cloak does is buy everyone whose initiative falls between the warlord's would-be death and the start of the warlord's next turn that one extra action. Then everyone's subject to death from negative hp again.



You'd need resist 20 necrotic, as above -- and that's just for the aura. And how is he going to keep Orcus from attacking him? I don't think he can sustain that round after round. Orcus, with Int 25 and Wis 25, should fairly quickly notice that targeting the warlord is a good idea, and Touch of Death will ruin his day if it hits.

Also, are you sure even a taclord can pull Orcus while also neatly corralling ALL of the minions, in a short enough time period to make your strategy possible? Do you have a backup plan if you lose initiative? Even if you do win, how are you going to keep Orcus flanked, seeing that he can teleport and his Tail Lash is made to interfere with that sort of thing?


I'm playing as the Tactlord and I've been thinking as to how to get around this. We have it figured out that Orcus would have to hit me 4 times with Touch of Death to kill me. At the moment I actually have resist 45 necrotic and with the wizard multiclassing warlord in order to get a few feats from martial power, and to get Own the Battlefield as well, we're doing the best to make it so we don't need a backup plan.

Also when I have a +30 to initiative, danger sense, the luck of a gambler, and we might also have 2 deadly tricksters in the party to mess with Orcus's rolls it is going to be pretty difficult for me to lose initiative.

And what I thought would work against Orcus to keep him from attacking me won't....

[Mando Knight]

We have it figured out that Orcus would have to hit me 4 times with Touch of Death to kill me.

How? Is it healing/regeneration abilities? Necrotic resistance doesn't apply to Orcus's Touch of Death...

[7th lvl scrub]

How? Is it healing/regeneration abilities? Necrotic resistance doesn't apply to Orcus's Touch of Death...

A combination of the possible rolls, its atleast 3.

#1 From my fighter friend's Direbeast Shield on a 14-17.
#2 From the Deadly Trickster's epic destiny ability on an 18+.
#3 From my Death Defying Cloak.
#4 I'm screwed.

[Shadow_Elf]

The Rattling strategy posted by KKL is good, except that Rattling can't stack with itself. And Mindiron is only for ranged weapons.
But this can give you one character to really screw with your Dm's head - and make Orcus take a BIG penalty to a whole crapload of stuff.

First, you need a Tiefling or Doppelganger Fey Pact Warlock.
Multiclass Paladin for 1/encounter Divine Challenge
Take Psychic Lock.
Divine Challenge Orcus at the start with the Feylock. Don't let the Fighter override this mark - infact, get a swordmage instead of a fighter, they're cooler anyways.
After challenging Orcus, spam Eyebite. Every turn. Constantly. As much as possible. Have one Taclord with Demigod (should have Battle Captain PrC) to give the Warlock a permanent +8 bonus to attack rolls as a minor action (Just Infinity Inspire him). Every turn, the Eyebite counts as engaging him for the purposes of Divine Challenge. So he takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls against everyone else the party, and an additional -2 for Psychic Lock.
But then he'll just kill the warlock right? Wrong.
He can't see the Warlock!
Get a Master's Wand of Eyebite so you also get +2 to attack rolls with Eyebite every turn.
For added cheese, add Zephyr Boots or Boots of Teleportation - Orcus can't even attack the square you were in, since you're now either in the air or teleported away.

If you all take Cloak of the Phoenix, you can all come back at full health - and deal auto 3d10 damage to Orcus and pals, which means that when one member of the party dies, all the Lich Vestiges die automatically.

Also, if you're allowed, use the Frenzied Berzerker from Dragon Magazine. Make it a Minotaur with a Life Charm. It essentially gets +50% HP.

Another good strategy is to make a Demigod Cleric with Divine Oracle and spam Prophecy of Doom every turn to make allies auto-crit. Very fun when done with Vorpal Fullblades - or when you let the party rogue auto-crit on Assassin's Point.

[KKL]

The Rattling strategy posted by KKL is good, except that Rattling can't stack with itself. And Mindiron is only for ranged weapons.

Except that penalties from the same name would stack while bonuses from the same name do not, and last I checked, Superior Crossbows were ranged weapons. I do think however, you mistook the Gith as Mindiron.

[Nefarion Xid]

I suppose bringing a "Gorget of Reciprocity" to the party would be too cheesy?

Power (Daily): Immediate Reaction. Use this power when
you are hit by an attack. The attacker is also hit by the
attack (no attack roll required); the damage roll and
effects are identical to the attack against you.

At the very least, Orcus is smart enough to know what you've got around your neck and he won't smack you with Touch O' Death.

(Touch of Death has the Necrotic keyword...but the effect also specifies "resistance or immunity to necrotic damage does not apply." So Orcus' own more specific ruling trumps the general rules on immunity)

Okay so...you sort of have to BITE IT to use this item (seeing as how a hit from touch of death reduces you to 0 HP). But, that shouldn't be a problem for a demigod who pops back to 50% as a non action.

[Mando Knight]

I suppose bringing a "Gorget of Reciprocity" to the party would be too cheesy?

Nope. It's just cheesy enough. The Immediate Reaction is towards getting hit by the Touch, which occurs before the application of the damage. :smallwink:

[Kurald Galain]

I suppose bringing a "Gorget of Reciprocity" to the party would be too cheesy?
I'm not so sure that would work, at least not without further tricks.

First, IIRC, Orcus's attack "deals damage equal to your maximum hit points", then that means, what, 150-200 points of damage? Orky isn't impressed.

Second, if as a result of Orcus's attack you drop unconscious, you are unable to take the immediate reaction to activate the item.

[Nefarion Xid]

If you were ever unconscious in the first place. Demigods spring back to 1/2 HP after getting knocked down to 0 or lower as a non action. So I don't think they even get KOed or hit the deck, even for a second.

And that would be a pretty harsh, interpretation of the item's effect. The gorget says "the damage roll and effects are identical to the attack against you." Orcus doesn't take damage at all, he simply drops to 0 HP as per the wording of his own attack.

Cheestastic...but it looks like it works.

EDIT: Immune: The monster has immunity to the stated kind of
damage or effect. For example, a monster with “immune
poison” never takes poison damage and can’t suffer any
other ill effect from a poison attack.

Found the magic words I was looking for. Touch of Death has the necrotic keyword so he cannot suffer "ill effects". So...if you could just take away his necrotic immunity for a round...

[7th lvl scrub]

Also, if you're allowed, use the Frenzied Berzerker from Dragon Magazine. Make it a Minotaur with a Life Charm. It essentially gets +50% HP.

Another good strategy is to make a Demigod Cleric with Divine Oracle and spam Prophecy of Doom every turn to make allies auto-crit. Very fun when done with Vorpal Fullblades - or when you let the party rogue auto-crit on Assassin's Point.

First of all, we would have a Frenzied Berserker, except I got it banned from playing with in this DM's games after the last time we did a one-shot and I played as one.

Second of all, since one of our players is playing a cleric, and we have a rogue who is taking Assassin's Point that idea sounds wonderful.


EDIT: Immune: The monster has immunity to the stated kind of damage or effect. For example, a monster with “immune
poison” never takes poison damage and can’t suffer any
other ill effect from a poison attack.

Found the magic words I was looking for. Touch of Death has the necrotic keyword so he cannot suffer "ill effects". So...if you could just take away his necrotic immunity for a round...

Fortunately, Orcus's Touch of Death bypasses all resistances and immunities.

[Berserk Monk]

Guns don't kill Orcus. PCs with guns kill Orcus.

[chiasaur11]

I think I have a solution:

One of you runs a 3.5 toril campaign.

Create Pun-pun.

Give Pun-pun the ability to move into your 4.0 campaign with powers intact as an at-will ability.

Obligitory ???? step

Obligitory "Profit" step. I'm sure there's some method.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Wizard Demigod, Resilient Sphere. He fails save, he's immobilised. He saves, he's immobilised.

Wizard keeps Orcus immobilised, the rest of you kill everything else.