Adapting the Dragons (3.5)

[Malacode]

I was reading through Dragon Compendium, the Monster section, and saw the three new Chromatic dragons (Orange, Purple and Yellow). How would they work for races (Dragonborn, etc), classes (Dragon Disciple, Dragon Shaman, etc) and feats (Like the draconic lineage ones)? Would it be possible to simply transfer the breath weapons effets but tone down the damage where appropriate? How would they be adapted? I'd like to see how this could be done

[Tsotha-lanti]

I could swear none of those are chromatic. The Yellow definitely didn't use to be, any more than the Mercury or Steel were (are) metallic.

[Malacode]

Well, they get referred to as Chromatic throughout their section and in the Appendix, so I'd assume that they're Chromatic.

[newbDM]

I am a big fan of those dragons, but I also found it strange that they counted as metallics.


As a related question, is it just me, or does anyone else think that Tiamat's mysterious sister who she killed off (the creature of the three dragon in the Dragon Compendium) was Vorel? Or did Tiamat go on a killing spree on her siblings?

I have been thinking of working Vorel in as their deity in my cosmology (In my cosmology Io revived Vorel my tearing a portion of Tiamat's power as punishment. Hence how I explain Tiamat being Intermediate divine status, while Bahamut is Greater.).

[hamishspence]

The compendium refers to them as "the forgotten chromatics". I remember the Yellow in 2nd ed being referred to as "the missing chromatic" and some things in their description about sages theorising that the dragon corresponding to the missing colour must exist.

It was a bit different from the Compendium version- it was a winged desert creature that preys on brass dragons.

Mercury and Steel dragons are in Dragons of Faerun, and Mercury ones don't have the classic two types of breath weapon, that metallics normally have.

[newbDM]

The compendium refers to them as "the forgotten chromatics". I remember the Yellow in 2nd ed being referred to as "the missing chromatic" and some things in their description about sages theorising that the dragon corresponding to the missing colour must exist.

It was a bit different from the Compendium version- it was a winged desert creature that preys on brass dragons.

Mercury and Steel dragons are in Dragons of Faerun, and Mercury ones don't have the classic two types of breath weapon, that metallics normally have.

Hmm. Do you know which 2nd edition book had the yellow dragons?

And didn't one of the final Dragon issues have the steel dragon, along with some other metallicish dragons? Were those dragons also from previous editions of D&D?

[hamishspence]

I think it may have been either the Monstrous Manual or one of the Monstrous compendiums- I saw it in a thick ring binder folder rather than a hardback book though.

The Steel Dragon appeared in Dragon 339 as the Greyhawk Dragon- pretty much identical in stats to the earlier online version, and the Dragons of Faerun version. Notable for being the only metallic dragon to reach caster level 21.

the Ferrous Dragons apparently first appeared in Dragon 170 and were updated to 3.5 in Dragon 356. The Iron dragon is expected to appear alongside gold, silver and copper in 4th ed as a core Metallic Dragon.

the Adamantine dragon was in Dragon 321 as a Planar Dragon (which meant no spellcasting powers), and is also expected to appear in 4th ed as a core Metallic Dragon.

[bosssmiley]

Edit: Gaaah! Ninja'ed!

Thanks to Hamish's quick reflexes the only part of my original post that still has any validity is my recommendation of the Dragondex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/) for issue numbers.

The 'Other' Chromatics I only know by repute (and some obsolete Faerun references) I'm afraid.

[hamishspence]

the Brown was in 2nd ed- I think it was in the Monstrous Manual. Wingless, unlike other chromatics.

it was in 3.0 Monsters of Faerun, an online update provided 3.5 changes to stats for them, as did 3.5 Dragons of Faerun.

Sandstorm provide the Sand Dragon, which in 4th ed Draconomicon is called the Brown- appears to have killed the old Brown and taken its stuff :smallbiggrin:

the Deep Dragon is now the Purple Dragon, and the Fang dragon, with a few changes (petrification powers and a breath weapon) is the Grey Dragon.

I also remember from the 2nd ed Draconomicon, that Tiamat and Bahamut were Unique Dragons rather than Deities.

Edit:
Prior to 2nd ed psionics, in the Master D&D (not AD&D) set, there were 6 types of gem dragon- crystal, onyx, jade, sapphire, ruby, and, oddly, brown, as well as the dragon lords which went by gem names:

Pearl, Opal, Diamond dragon, as alternatives to their usual names-
Moon, Sun, Star dragon- they were the rulers of-
Chaotic, Neutral and Lawful dragonkind respectively.

[Darrin]

I was reading through Dragon Compendium, the Monster section, and saw the three new Chromatic dragons (Orange, Purple and Yellow). How would they work for races (Dragonborn, etc), classes (Dragon Disciple, Dragon Shaman, etc) and feats (Like the draconic lineage ones)? Would it be possible to simply transfer the breath weapons effets but tone down the damage where appropriate? How would they be adapted? I'd like to see how this could be done

For Draconic Heritage/Lineage:



Type Descriptor Skill Spells Known
Orange Acid Swim Control Water, Heat Metal, Hallucinatory Terrain
Purple Light Diplomacy Color Spray, Fire Shield, Wall of Force
Yellow Acid Tumble Feather Fall, Control Winds, Whirlwind


My reasoning... Orange's breath weapon sounds like some kind of chemical reaction, like sodium reacting with water. So... chemical = acid damage. It also has abilities similar to a Green dragon (mostly the water breathing), so I figured just use Green's breath weapon instead of bothering with the 2-round delay (and I'm still not sure what kind of damage "explosive" would be). Although move silently would also fit the Orange dragon, it apparently spends more time in the water than Green, so swim for the skill.

For Purple, it has three breath effects, none of which are explicitly typed. One is listed as "searing energy", the second is a blinding flash of light, and the third sounds like a melee force weapon. "Light" I think covers two of the three. Diplomacy seemed like the best skill, since they seem to excel at politics and nation-building.

Yellow... going with acid again, since salt = chemical and high salinity can increase acidity. Actually, I wasn't entirely sure due to the description of yellow's breath weapon that it did any damage, but there is a damage column on the table. However, acid damage seems like it should be associated with an affinity to earth or water, and yellow is decidedly more in tune with air... just not sure how salt ties in with air at all. Wasn't sure about the skill, either, although the description says they are the most agile of dragons, and it's difficult to "land a telling blow against these beasts". So tumble might work.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Hmm. Do you know which 2nd edition book had the yellow dragons?

And didn't one of the final Dragon issues have the steel dragon, along with some other metallicish dragons? Were those dragons also from previous editions of D&D?

The 2nd ed. Monstrous Manual has yellow, steel, and mercury dragons. Cloud, shadow, and some others, too. Brown, deep... somesuch.

[hamishspence]

in a 2nd ed Monstrous Compendium there was the Amber Dragon- got a gluey breath, a gore attack with its horn instead of a bite, and Druid spells instead of Wizard or Clerical ones.

Cloud dragon appears to have been replaced with Cloud Drake in 3.5 Draconomicon. Mist dragon has made it into 3.5 though- Dragons of Faerun.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Monstrous Compendium Annual Vol. 3 has the Amber Dragon. Scalding sticky sap (BB roll to escape), beak-horn instead of bite...

It's also got the Cerilian Dragon (Birthright dragon, I think?) and Ghost Dragon...

Vol 2 had the Brine Dragon (and the half-dragon, but that doesn't really count, does it?).

Vol 4 has the Moonstone Dragon and the Prismatic Dragon.

[hamishspence]

I'm guessing the prismatic was not quite as godly in power in 2nd ed.

Dragon mag list of "true dragons" or nearest equivalent (anything aging from wyrmling to great wyrm) for 3.5 is pretty long:

321: Planar Dragons- adamantine, arboreal, beast, concordant, axial
337: Brainstealer Dragon
339: Greyhawk dragon, AKA Steel Dragon
343: Arcane Dragons- Hex, Tomb
344: Planar dragons- astral, chole, elysian, gloom
345: Sea Serpents- crested, lantern, spiked
349: Hordelands- Dalzmus dragon (three headed)
356: Ferrous Dragons- chromium, cobalt, nickel, tungsten, iron
359: Epic dragons- Time dragon