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D_Lord
2009-01-06, 02:19 PM
Now I read a few batman and anti batman threads but one thing I found in the Player's Handbook.
Most batman wizards love the spell Contingency. But in the threads I read, don't use it the right way. The famous Batman combo of Contingency TimeStop is by RAW impossable. Contingency only works with spells 6 level or lower, TimeStop is an 9 level spell too high to work.
And the other part is that they have more then one Contingency going on at once. It says that "You can use only one Contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.
Now I might have misread the batman threads but than again I might be right and a lot of wizards have been overpowered by RAW cheating.

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-06, 02:25 PM
The Craft Contingency Spell feat doesn't have the actual spell's limitations.

And I've never seen a contingent time stop. Usually it's contingency teleport or something. If you need a free turn, use celerity to get yourself a free round--and then you use that free round to cast time stop normally.

The Glyphstone
2009-01-06, 03:15 PM
Correct, Batman doesn't use a Contingent Timestop via Contingency. He'll, as Tor said, use the Craft Contingent Spell feat to make a Contingincied Timestop, or just have Contingent Celerity and use the Celerity to cast Timestop.

There are flaws with Batman's defenses. This is not one of them.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-06, 03:27 PM
Now I read a few batman and anti batman threads but one thing I found in the Player's Handbook.
Most batman wizards love the spell Contingency. But in the threads I read, don't use it the right way. The famous Batman combo of Contingency TimeStop is by RAW impossable. Contingency only works with spells 6 level or lower, TimeStop is an 9 level spell too high to work.
And the other part is that they have more then one Contingency going on at once. It says that "You can use only one Contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.
Now I might have misread the batman threads but than again I might be right and a lot of wizards have been overpowered by RAW cheating.

As has been said, it's "Contingency Celerity upon my being the target of an attack or negative effect". Celerity immediately grants an action, even when it is not your turn, and is a 3rd level spell. Use that granted action to cast Time Stop.

And the feat Craft Contingency is the one that Batman truly breaks in horrid ways, because there is no limitation on how many you can have.

Human Paragon 3
2009-01-06, 03:33 PM
Please correct your spelling to "possible." It's really bugging me.

charl
2009-01-06, 03:39 PM
Probably the wrong thread, but couldn't Batman achieve basically the same effect by making a time stop trap?

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-06, 03:39 PM
Yes, but abusing the object creation tables is just Pun Pun cheesy.

Kurald Galain
2009-01-06, 06:34 PM
Yes, but abusing the object creation tables is just Pun Pun cheesy.

True enough, but craft contigent spell is also very cheesy...

tarbrush
2009-01-06, 06:49 PM
True enough, but craft contigent spell is also very cheesy...

As is Celerity really.

Particularly if you can shrug the daze.

Heliomance
2009-01-06, 07:10 PM
As has been said, it's "Contingency Celerity upon my being the target of an attack or negative effect". Celerity immediately grants an action, even when it is not your turn, and is a 3rd level spell. Use that granted action to cast Time Stop.

And the feat Craft Contingency is the one that Batman truly breaks in horrid ways, because there is no limitation on how many you can have.

There is, actually, but as I'm pretty sure it's one per hit die, it hardly matters.

Eldariel
2009-01-06, 07:14 PM
Bleh, Contingencies, Time Stops, Celerities and so on have nothing to do with being Batman as much as they have with being a strong Wizard in general. The Batman Wizard is the Wizard who strives to have just the thing to deal with just what needs to be dealt with while also having a bunch of things that are just really good in general so they've always got the encounter-ending spell at their fingertips. That's what the idea of a Batman Wizard is all about; preparation and control (in other words, spells that truly end encounters instead of spells that harm some opponents, but do not otherwise inconvenience them; that said, even the old unreliable Fireball has its uses, so a Batman doesn't mind access).

But yea, nobody suggests Contingency: Time Stop; Celerity > Time Stop is the most common "get out of any jail for free for real"-card, while Contingency: Teleport/Dimension Door keyed to a word (and speaking is a free action) is one of the simpliest Wizard-defenses.

Blood_Lord
2009-01-06, 08:08 PM
There is, actually, but as I'm pretty sure it's one per hit die, it hardly matters.

It's two per HD, so a level 10 Wizard can only have 10 Contingencies on at a time. Poor guy.

wadledo
2009-01-06, 08:21 PM
It's two per HD, so a level 10 Wizard can only have 10 Contingencies on at a time. Poor guy.

2 per HD would mean that a 10 HD wizard would get 20 Contingencies.

ericgrau
2009-01-06, 08:52 PM
Yes, there is a lot of cheese in their tactics, though I think it is legal using some book somewhere. The "ready for anything" slogan tends to be mostly in theory. It's really "ready for anything if you prepared that spell today" or "ready for anything given 24 hours notice." But it is still easily possible to make a cheese-free and highly effective Batman wizard. Auto-win? No, but I see few/no actually games that would allow an auto-win tactic to go on, assuming it could even be pulled off in the first place without forcing groans, rolled-eyes and PHB tossing.

ReluctantDragon
2009-01-07, 09:47 AM
Yes, there is a lot of cheese in their tactics, though I think it is legal using some book somewhere. The "ready for anything" slogan tends to be mostly in theory. It's really "ready for anything if you prepared that spell today" or "ready for anything given 24 hours notice." But it is still easily possible to make a cheese-free and highly effective Batman wizard. Auto-win? No, but I see few/no actually games that would allow an auto-win tactic to go on, assuming it could even be pulled off in the first place without forcing groans, rolled-eyes and PHB tossing.


I think this is at the heart of the WIZZRD IS TEH WIN!!11! meme. I have asked players at gaming stores, players online, and players in my own group, and the Batman wizard actually is seldom played. If played, there is seldom opportunity or inkling to play the uber-cheese of contingency/celerity/time stop. In fact, more often than not, people find the Batman wizard boring. So all of the hype, in my experience, is just that: Hype. Theory. Conjecture.

My two bits
RD.

kamikasei
2009-01-07, 09:53 AM
I suppose it's pointless to lament the abuse (or charitably "drift") suffered by the term "Batman wizard" as visible in this thread?

Cheese is not a requirement.