help with a swordsage

[darthpower]

hello I need help I have been invited to play in a champaign and I have a problem they want me to play a swordsage which I have never played and am not clear on the rules of or what a good build for one would be.

the lvl of the game is 2 all 3.0/3.5 books are in.

so might GITP forum help

[Eldariel]

Wait, they are telling you to be a Swordsage? That's not how it should work; they can ask you to fill a party role, sure, but a specific class? That's beyond their power. That said, if you want to be a Swordsage, you're in for a blast. They're tons of fun to play; imagine a melee character that doesn't suck doing a different attack each turn and modifying his attacks according to his opponents!

Anyways, the only thing must for a Swordsage is Adaptive Style. It allows you to recover all your maneuvers in one full-round action and to change them while at it. One of the principal Swordsage class features is getting Wisdom to AC while in Light Armor, so you'll quite likely have one of the best armor classes in the party, both, getting Dex and Wis to AC and being able to wear armor. That said, if you want an Str-based Swordsage wielding Two-Handed, don't let this stop you. Mithril Breastplate is a light armor and you can get full AC benefit out of it with 14 Dex in the start (once you can afford Dex-buffers).

Beyond Adaptive, it all depends on what you want. Two-Weapon Fighter? Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, a dip in Warblade for Ironheart Aura + Stormguard Warrior.

Two-Handed Fighter? Power Attack, possibly Improved Trip (goes great with Setting Sun too), Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, combine Diamond Mind Charges with your Charge-boosters, a dip in Barbarian for Pounce.

Unarmed Fighter? Take Unarmed Swordsage Adaption, pick Improved Natural Attack, focus on any of the stats with the option of dual wielding (either Shadow Blade/Weapon Finesse for Dex, or no feats for Str, or Intuitive Attack for Wis getting Wis to damage on maneuvers from the class), learn combat maneuvers, etc. A small Monk-dip later for Flurry, or Barbarian-dip for Pounce. Totemist even could be good.

Sword & Board Fighter? Get some Shield-boosting feats, focus on maneuvers that deal damage regardless of your weapon (such as the Concentration-attacks from Diamond Mind and the throws), etc. Crusader-dip for appropriate Shield-maneuvers with possibly Master of the Nine-entry.


You need to decide what way you want to go first, then you can get more and better advice.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and with 6 skillpoints per level, they make fine skill monkeys. Start with a level in Rogue (for extra skillpoints) or if you're interested in more esoteric skills, Factotum, pick Able Learner and rock your skill monkey boots.

[elliott20]

Eldariel totally ninja'd I think everybody else's sentiment here.

You can do just about any kind of kung-fu martial warrior with Swordsage. It's that flexible. So, you really need to give us more than that to help you out.

[Aergoth]

If you want to wade into combat (A la, armored Tank) and dish incredible damage, look no further than the Crusader. Elder. Mountain. Hammer. Destroyer of enemies, regardless of armor.

Swordsages are best designed (I feel) for light weapons and weapon finesse, since you don't really want to have to multi-stat, and you can build up a rather nice AC as long as you wear light armor. That being said. If you choose to play a rogue-like character, and like light weapons, I recommend Shadow Blade, which allows you to use weapon finesse with "rogue-y" (short swords, daggers and similar weapons) weaponry from the Shadow Hand style and functions as WF for the purpose of gaining other feats. Combine that with some Desert Wind moves and you've got an excellent "flank. Murder. rinse. repeat." build, with some nice potential for a multiclass between rogue (or another class that offers sneak attack.)

[darthpower]

so from what I am geting swordsage can fill alot of different roles so what do you consider to be there best quilty? or build?

[elliott20]

that's a difficult question to answer, mostly because what constitute as "best" can be highly subjective.

Immediately though, my gut tells me the Swordsage's greatest strength is it's versatility. Change the maneuvers and you can often have a completely different character strategy. Again, the trick is to figure out what you want first.

Don't even bother with the best "build", because if you don't understand the build you're not going to play it effectively anyway. Most ToB classes are pretty easy to make effective anyway.

Seriously dude, figure that out first.

[sonofzeal]

so from what I am geting swordsage can fill alot of different roles so what do you consider to be there best quilty? or build?
It's... not so much that. They're almost certainly going to be filling the "DPS role" no matter how you build them; the question is how you want to be killing things, and Swordsage is good at all of them.

Honestly, there really isn't much advice to give. Read through the available schools of maneuvers, pick two (maybe three) schools that sound spiffy, choose whichever maneuvers you think you'll use from those schools, and have fun!

Seriously, even a poorly-built Swordsage will kick the butt of most core martial types. You can't go far wrong.

[Eldariel]

The first thing you need to figure out is, what schools you'll focus on and what weapons you'll use. The great thing about ToB is that you can make an effective character regardless of your choices; in normal D&D, you're pretty much limited to two-handed weapons and preferably reach ones. With ToB, that whole crap flies out of the window and every type gets a chance to shine. So go with your heart, decide what weapon(s) (or combat styles) you'll want to use, what character roles you'll want/need to fill and we'll go from there.

EDIT: Simple list of what choices you'll want to make:

Choose which roles to fill out of: Tank (protecting other party members, blocking hits, just being in opponent's way), glass cannon (primary damage dealer), skill monkey (somewhat obvious)

Choose which weapon style to use out of: Two-Weapon, Two-Handed (Reach or Adjacent), Sword & Board, Unarmed

Choose which 2-3 schools to focus on (and which to splash) out of: Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw

PrC plans, if any.

[sonofzeal]

Swordsage Discipline breakdown:

Desert Wind - lot of mobility, lot of fire damage. In one word, "Flashy"

Diamond Mind - extra actions, boosts to saves. In one word, "Focussed"

Setting Sun - lot of counters, lot of throws. In one word, "Judo".

Shadow Hand - extra stealth, lot of debuffs. In one word, "Rogue" (or "Ninja")

Stone Dragon - extra defense, negate enemy defense. In one word, "Defender".

Tiger Claw - extra jumpings, extra attacks. In one word, "Feral".



...so yeah, choose two or three, any combination you like.

[JeminiZero]

Choose which 2-3 schools to focus on (and which to splash) out of: Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw


Focussing is not entirely necessary. the Swordsage gets so many maneuvers known, that with a bit of planning, he can grab the capstone maneuvers for 5 of his 6 schools. Focussing only becomes more important if your maneuvers requires skill checks (especially Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw).



so from what I am geting swordsage can fill alot of different roles so what do you consider to be there best quilty? or build?


There is no one 'best' role. The important to consider is the other roles your party will have filled, and try and take one that is not filled. E.g. Do they have a skill monkey? If not you should think about being one.

That said, you can try using what I call the One Hit Wonder: For your weapon, use either a single weapon or fist. Splash Psionics (2 PsyWar gives you 2 bonus feats) and get Deep Impact or Unavoidable Strike. Add on Elusive Dance and Psionic Meditation. Focus on getting the one hit maneuvers across all your schools (and there are lots of them, Insightful Strikes, Mountain Hammer, 5 shadow ice strike, etc). By expending Psionic focus, you can now deliver your various one hit maneuvers as touch attacks. Recover Psionic focus using Psionic meditation as a move action. Avoid AoOs with Elusive Dance. Your offhand remains free letting you run around in shadow Hand stances (for spider climb/airwalk). You will face problems against multiple foes, so grab multiple/area attacks where you can to compensate for this (mostly desert wind).

[Eldariel]

Focussing is not entirely necessary. the Swordsage gets so many maneuvers known, that with a bit of planning, he can grab the capstone maneuvers for 5 of his 6 schools. Focussing only becomes more important if your maneuvers requires skill checks (especially Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw).

True, but knowing what you want to use the most helps choosing things such as School Focuses. Of course, the importance of school focuses mostly depends on the style chosen; for a base Dex TWFer with high Wis, or a base Wis Unarmed Swordsage, it can be a huge difference, while a Strength-based Full-Plated Two-Hander (completely viable Swordsage concept since they only lose Wis to AC in big armor, so if the Wis and Dex weren't anything to write home about anyways, it's a fine way to go) won't notice the difference.

[Noneoyabizzness]

best way to play a swordsage is to play a warblade.

they want you to play dont make them dictate your class for you. a dm however could dictate race if it makes sense, say what you can't play but no group should demand your class.

[sonofzeal]

Recover Psionic focus using Psionic meditation as a move action.
Better - grab "Instant Clarity", and recover your focus as NO action with NO skill check.

[Jasdoif]

Better - grab "Instant Clarity", and recover your focus as NO action with NO skill check.With a limit of three times per day, though.