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View Full Version : [3.5] 'zilla time!



monty
2009-01-07, 12:03 AM
So, I'm making a new character, and decided to go the Clericzilla route. My DM already ok'd it; I think he feels bad about killing three characters (including mine, obviously) in our last encounter. Anyway, I have a bunch of turning attempts, ending up with me to be able to persist five (5) spells. What I'm not entirely sure of is what spells to persist. I've already decided on Divine Power, Righteous Might, and Mass Lesser Vigor as three of my combat-ready buffs, but I'm not sure on the other two, and I'd like to have other options for city interaction.

My build:
CE Raptoran Cloistered Cleric 5 / Divine Oracle 4
Domains: Travel, Trickery, Knowledge, Oracle
Str 14 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 20 (after levels) Cha 18
Feats: Extend Spell, Persist Spell, DMM (Persist), Skill Focus (Knowledge: Religion), Extra Turning, Craft Rod
Equipment: 6 Nightsticks, +2 Periapt of Wisdom, Rod of Extend, Handy Haversack

Any other advice is welcome as well, but I'm mostly interested in spells.

Zephyros
2009-01-07, 07:19 AM
May be Righteous Wrath of the Faithful?

Malacode
2009-01-07, 08:50 AM
Divine Agility is good (+10 to Dex) for a cleric who uses ranged spells requiring an attack roll. In fact, all the 'Divine X' spells from SC are pretty good contenders. As Zeph says, Righteous Wrath is AWESOME for Persisting, as your entire party benefits. Righteous Might is good if you're going for a melee cleric and you don't mind the AC drop for being a size category larger.... I personally go with Divine Power (Because my Str sucks, and the party is in desperate need of Melee characters) and Divine Agility (Because I'm a sneaky Cleric. Yes, it happens). If I'm willing to drop another 7 turn attemps for a particular reason, I'll go with Righteous Wrath, despite the fact it leaves me with no level 5 cleric spells apart from my Domain slot.

Eldariel
2009-01-07, 09:13 AM
Touch-range spells aren't viable targets though, so Divine Agility is unavailable. Me, I'd go with the usuals:
Holy Transformation-line
Visage of the Deity-line
Bite of the Werex-line
Divine Favor (albeit almost better Quickened)

Darrin
2009-01-07, 10:10 AM
What I'm not entirely sure of is what spells to persist.


Freedom of Movement is one of the classics, although with a flying spellcaster, that may not be so important.

You have Trickery... which means you can persist Invisibility. That could be very interesting... combined with a bunch of summon spells or wall of <blah> spells. Once you get 5th level spells, persisting Mislead (Improved Invisibility + illusory double) should be extremely effective.

If you want to get really vicious, pick up the Invisible Spell feat from Cityscape and make all your walls invisible. (Note: this will most likely get you strangled by an irate GM, particularly if you're casting things like an invisible obscuring mist or invisible invisibility spell.)

Recitation (WotC website, Spell Archive) might be interesting. +2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, weapon damage, saves, and skill checks for allies within 60', all enemies take -2 penalty on the same rolls.

Do you have access to setting-specific spells? Mystic Lash (Magic of Faerun p. 109) is a clerical variation on Flameblade.

The Glyphstone
2009-01-07, 10:17 AM
Touch-range spells aren't viable targets though, so Divine Agility is unavailable. Me, I'd go with the usuals:
Holy Transformation-line
Visage of the Deity-line
Bite of the Werex-line
Divine Favor (albeit almost better Quickened)

Isn't Persistent Spell "fixed or personal range"? Touch-range is a fixed distance, so it would qualify for Persist that way.

Douglas
2009-01-07, 11:14 AM
Whether touch range is "fixed" or not is debatable, ask your DM.

Given the 3 you've already picked, my top recommendations for the next 2 would be Righteous Wrath of the Faithful and Recitation, both from the Spell Compendium. Both of them provide potent bonuses even when considered on an individual and apply to the entire party as well. If it is reasonable to do so, coordinate with your fellow party members so as many of them as possible worship the same god as you and get the full +3 from Recitation instead of +2.

monty
2009-01-07, 03:13 PM
Righteous Wrath and Recitation both look like good choices. FoM shouldn't be necessary, since between the Travel domain power and flight, I don't see it being an issue often enough to be worth it.

Eldariel
2009-01-07, 04:27 PM
Isn't Persistent Spell "fixed or personal range"? Touch-range is a fixed distance, so it would qualify for Persist that way.

I suppose there's hope for DM allowing it. By strict reading though, because you can cast Touch-spells on someone else they aren't personal nor fixed range. You can read more here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=407298).

Blood_Lord
2009-01-07, 04:38 PM
I suppose there's hope for DM allowing it. By strict reading though, because you can cast Touch-spells on someone else they aren't personal nor fixed range. You can read more here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=407298).

I'm sorry, what? So you are arguing that Cloudkill is persistable, but FoM isn't?

Seriously, that definition of fixed is "everything except touch, even things with variables" unlike Touch, which has no variables and is fixed.

Eldariel
2009-01-07, 04:49 PM
I'm sorry, what? So you are arguing that Cloudkill is persistable, but FoM isn't?

Seriously, that definition of fixed is "everything except touch, even things with variables" unlike Touch, which has no variables and is fixed.

Huh? I don't make up the rules, I'm just clearing up what the rules say. Anyways, the "personal"-version of Freedom of Movement should be fine; actual touch-spells are the ones with only the range of "creature touched". Freedom of Movement specifically has a range of "personal OR".

Medic
2009-01-07, 04:58 PM
Stone Body - Reduces your movement to half but you can make up the difference with another spell I am sure. The gains are significant.

Invisibility Purge - No issue with seeing invisible people for the entire party.

FoM

Ring of Blades - Might be a pain depending on the need to get near people. I believe you can reorient yourself to avoid smacking group members to heal.

monty
2009-01-07, 05:11 PM
You can read more here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=407298).

I'm sorry, but I don't see how a variable range can possibly be considered fixed. I can see the argument for touch not being valid, but that's basically saying that everything else is.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-01-07, 08:19 PM
Dragon Breath could be fun to persist.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-01-07, 10:50 PM
First of all, say you visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel (page 145-146) to get Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion) for 2,000 gp instead of wasting a feat on it. Spend the recovered feat on Dodge or Expeditious Dodge (RotW), and say you also visited the Otyugh Hole to get Iron Will. That will allow you to dip one level into Dragon Slayer from the Draconomicon to gain proficiency in all martial weapons, armors, and shields, plus immunity to fear and superb HP/BAB/Saves without losing spellcasting.

Second, be sure to take the spontaneous domain casting variant from PH2, both the Travel and Trickery domains are superb choices for this, since spontaneously converting spells into Inflicts is just worthless.

Gear: where's your weapon, armor, and shield? You need two things to cast Rod of Extended Magic Vestment on, plus if you can Persist touch-range spells Spikes would be an obvious choice to make a free Club into a potent weapon.

Spells: Replace one of your domains with the Spell domain, and use Anyspell to cast and persist Wraithstrike. You could even use your 4th level domain spell/day on another Anyspell to cast and persist Shield. You'd also get Mage Armor, which could be (Rod of) Extended, and then you can put (Extended) Magic Vestment on both your Mage Armor and Shield spells each day. Once you get Greater Anyspell use it to cast and persist Draconic Polymorph from the Draconomicon to take the form of a War Troll (MM3), or get the Outsider creature type to Draconic Polymorph into an Arrow Demon (MM3).

Seffbasilisk
2009-01-07, 11:11 PM
May I recommend the 'Planning' domain, to get Extend Spell for free?

I had a L-E Raptoran Cleric that went cleric-zilla on a town...made the DM hide under the table and cry before it was over.

That being said, look at Consumptive Field. Persist that, then cast 'Negative Energy Aura' and walk through an orphanage to 'Power Up'. True, the CL will cap out, but the temp HP and STR bonus won't. The temp HP will help when it comes to avoiding damage when using that massive STR bonus.

monty
2009-01-07, 11:26 PM
May I recommend the 'Planning' domain, to get Extend Spell for free?

I had a L-E Raptoran Cleric that went cleric-zilla on a town...made the DM hide under the table and cry before it was over.

That being said, look at Consumptive Field. Persist that, then cast 'Negative Energy Aura' and walk through an orphanage to 'Power Up'. True, the CL will cap out, but the temp HP and STR bonus won't. The temp HP will help when it comes to avoiding damage when using that massive STR bonus.

Planning is from one of the Faerun books, right? Probably won't be able to take that. For your second suggestion...that really wouldn't fit my character concept at all.

Douglas
2009-01-07, 11:42 PM
Planning is from one of the Faerun books, right? Probably won't be able to take that.
Maybe originally, I'm not sure, but it's also in the Spell Compendium on page 278.

Keld Denar
2009-01-08, 02:27 AM
You could even use your 4th level domain spell/day on another Anyspell to cast and persist Shield. You'd also get Mage Armor, which could be (Rod of) Extended, and then you can put (Extended) Magic Vestment on both your Mage Armor and Shield spells each day.

Wait what? You can't cast MV on a Shield spell or Mage Armor spell...its not a valid target for MV. You could cast it on, say, a t-shirt, and have Mage Armor running, which would give you an armor bonus to AC, and an enhancement bonus to armor, which is valid as explicitely stated by the MV spell, but you don't actually cast the MV on the MA, and you certainly can't cast MV on a Shield spell, or cast it to gain an enhancement bonus to shield bonus to AC when you don't have a shield to cast it on, unless there are 0 AC shields with no use restrictions that I am not aware of (even bucklers imposed penalties for using them). Even a Ring of Force Shielding would be a questionable target, although and Animated Shield would be a prefectly valid choice to gain this.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-01-08, 06:13 AM
Wait what? You can't cast MV on a Shield spell or Mage Armor spell...its not a valid target for MV. You could cast it on, say, a t-shirt, and have Mage Armor running, which would give you an armor bonus to AC, and an enhancement bonus to armor, which is valid as explicitely stated by the MV spell, but you don't actually cast the MV on the MA, and you certainly can't cast MV on a Shield spell, or cast it to gain an enhancement bonus to shield bonus to AC when you don't have a shield to cast it on, unless there are 0 AC shields with no use restrictions that I am not aware of (even bucklers imposed penalties for using them). Even a Ring of Force Shielding would be a questionable target, although and Animated Shield would be a prefectly valid choice to gain this.

The spell Shield creates a tangible shield of force, which grants a Shield bonus to AC, which you could then touch thus targeting it with Magic Vestment. Mage Armor creates a tangible armor force effect, which could likewise be touched and targeted by Magic Vestment. This is one of the oldest core tricks for spell buffs, and has been since the release of 3.0.