Help! Warforged without setting specific material.

[FinalJustice]

Hi there fellas, I've run into a problem here. I was thinking about building a Warforged Warblade for some adventures to come. BUT, in our group, we doesn't use setting specific material (it's not Greyhawk and yadayada).

So, what I ask is, aside from the basic Warforged from the MMIII, what else could I get? Specifically, could I enhance my fortification and my plating with non-Eberron material? Any sources or passages I'm missing? Books allowed includes pretty much everything from WoTC non setting speciffic, including web enhancements and Dragon Magazines.

Any help is appreciated. =D

[Deth Muncher]

Hi there fellas, I've run into a problem here. I was thinking about building a Warforged Warblade for some adventures to come. BUT, in our group, we doesn't use setting specific material (it's not Greyhawk and yadayada).

So, what I ask is, aside from the basic Warforged from the MMIII, what else could I get? Specifically, could I enhance my fortification and my plating with non-Eberron material? Any sources or passages I'm missing? Books allowed includes pretty much everything from WoTC non setting speciffic, including web enhancements and Dragon Magazines.

Any help is appreciated. =D

My thought is that you're screwed. The only other book with Warforged things other than the Eberron Campaign Setting is the book Races of Eberron. If you can't use either of those, you're boned. Hard.

Honestly though, Warforged are Eberron material. You should at least be allowed the upgrades listed in those books. If not, your DMs a jerk.

[elliott20]

Having never actually read through the Eberron books, can somebody tell me how a warforge is going to mechanically work differently from any other non-human character? Do you really need all the extra source book upgrades to make the character work?

[Inyssius Tor]

Armor doesn't work the same way, since warforged are built with the stuff; and healing doesn't work the same way, since warforged are living constructs. Other than that, it's mostly just a bunch of feats and weapons and components and so forth that you'll be missing out on.

[Jasdoif]

So, what I ask is, aside from the basic Warforged from the MMIII, what else could I get? Specifically, could I enhance my fortification and my plating with non-Eberron material? Any sources or passages I'm missing? Books allowed includes pretty much everything from WoTC non setting speciffic, including web enhancements and Dragon Magazines.

Any help is appreciated. =DAdamantine Body, Improved Fortification, Mithral Body and Mithral Fluidity are all in MMIII, p. 192.

[FinalJustice]

Wow, huge oversight. Thanks man, exactly what I needed, problem solved.

[Waspinator]

Does the Spell Compendium have the "Repair _____ Damage" spells? If so, you'll probably want to have access to them in some way. If you can bribe your local wizard or sorceror into learning them, that'd be good. If not, see if you can hunt down a NPC who can make potions of them since they'll give you more bang for your buck than equivalent Cure potions.

[Iku Rex]

Races of Eberron is technically not setting specific.

[XenoGeno]

Races of Eberron is technically not setting specific.


Well, technically it is. Just about all the fluff is, and basically all options for any race other than warforged, shifter, or changeling requires you to be from a specific region of Eberron. But, most of the feats for warforged etc. can be used in any setting, and if those three races are allowed, they should be used.

[hamishspence]

what makes it different from the other Eberron books is the style on the cover- made as if it was a sequel to the Races of Stone, the Wild, Destiny, the Dragon, series.

so, in that sense, its not a "true" Eberron book.

By contrast Races of Faerun has the Faerun styling of grey and brown.

[Waspinator]

I kind of wonder why you would allow Warforged at all if your group isn't allowing setting-specific stuff. However, if they are allowed, you really should be able to use the Warforged-oriented stuff from the Eberron books since they do have some challenges beyond what most races encounter (such as how their armor works).

[Iku Rex]

Well, technically it is. No it isn't.

From Races of Eberron page 6: "Why is Races of Eberron a core D&D supplement and not an Eberron-specific book? Changelings, kalashtar, shifters, and warforged are excellent additions to any D&D campaign, offering fun and unique play experiences and enriching any setting."

[Inyssius Tor]

No it isn't.

From Races of Eberron page 6: "Why is Races of Eberron a core D&D supplement and not an Eberron-specific book? Changelings, kalashtar, shifters, and warforged are excellent additions to any D&D campaign, offering fun and unique play experiences and enriching any setting."

But that's utter nonsense. The book's sixth chapter is specifically about how the core races fit into the Eberron Campaign Setting, for crying out loud.

[Iku Rex]

But that's utter nonsense. The book's sixth chapter is specifically about how the core races fit into the Eberron Campaign Setting, for crying out loud.<shrug>

My guess is that they relabled the book at the last minute.

Regardless, it is technically not setting specific.

[Zeful]

No it isn't.

From Races of Eberron page 6: "Why is Races of Eberron a core D&D supplement and not an Eberron-specific book? Changelings, kalashtar, shifters, and warforged are excellent additions to any D&D campaign, offering fun and unique play experiences and enriching any setting."

Then it goes on to mention things about DM approval. A dozen feats not present in the book. The lack of any Adaptation sidebar for any of the races. And of course the lack of non-setting specific fluff, causes the general conception of the book to be part of the Eberron Campaign setting.

So you're right, and you're wrong.

[Shades of Gray]

Is that any different than Complete Mage's prestige classes that require Complete Arcane to function? Or the section in many campaign modules that let you adapt them to other settings?

[AslanCross]

Yeah, I'm a bit confused as to how the DM could allow warforged without giving them feat and item support.

You're in for a treat, though. I play a Warforged Warblade as well, and he's 312 pounds of adamantine awesome.

[Zeful]

Except there is no Adaptation section in the book at all Shades of Gray, which implies it use solely within the Ebberon setting. The missing feats really only hurt the Shifter (not even then really I'm sure there are some Shifter feats in the MM they feature), since many of the Warforged feats are reproduced in another book. For all intents and purposes Races of Ebberon is an Ebberon book with some mild schizophrenia about what it's supposed to do (page 6).

[Iku Rex]

Then it goes on to mention things about DM approval.Uh, yes, players should check with their DM before introducing new races and cultures to a campaign world.

Are you saying that's not true for other new races? :smallconfused:

The lack of any Adaptation sidebar for any of the races."Adaptation sidebar"? Races of Stone doesn't have any "Adaption sidebars" either. Does that make it setting-specific in your opinion?

Races of Eberron does have sidebars discussing how the races might fit into other campaign worlds.

Example taken from the sidebar on page 8: " .... Warforged are particularly appropriate in a high-magic setting where war has been an ongoing feature in the land. They might be relics from ancient times, only recently reactivated, or they might be new creations still in service for various powerful nations or organizations. ...."

And of course the lack of non-setting specific fluff, causes the general conception of the book to be part of the Eberron Campaign setting.I don't understand what you mean by "lack of non-setting specific fluff". As far as I can see most of the fluff can be fitted into other settings with only minor changes.


So you're right, and you're wrong.Wizards of the Coast, the game's publisher, has defined Races of Eberron as "not setting specific". That makes it technically "not setting specific". This is a fact.

It doesn't matter in the slightest what the "general conception" is.

[Zeful]

Uh, yes, players should check with their DM before introducing new races and cultures to a campaign world.

Are you saying that's not true for other new races? :smallconfused:No it's not true for other races, because DMs generally start the campaign with what books material is allowed from (or if they don't, should).

"Adaptation sidebar"? Races of Stone doesn't have any "Adaption sidebars" either. Does that make it setting-specific in your opinion?

Races of Eberron does have sidebars discussing how the races might fit into other campaign worlds.

Example taken from the sidebar on page 8: " .... Warforged are particularly appropriate in a high-magic setting where war has been an ongoing feature in the land. They might be relics from ancient times, only recently reactivated, or they might be new creations still in service for various powerful nations or organizations. ...."I was looking through the Shifter section when I wrote that, there was no header, sidebar, nothing, that would allow a DM to look over the Race's conceptualization without reading the entire entry.

I don't understand what you mean by "lack of non-setting specific fluff". As far as I can see most of the fluff can be fitted into other settings with only minor changes.So either write new fluff or force the DM to make his setting as much like Ebberon as possible (including how druids, religions, and the planes are organized)? Seems a little extreme to me.


Wizards of the Coast, the game's publisher, has defined Races of Eberron as "not setting specific". That makes it technically "not setting specific". This is a fact. And they did a very poor job of it at best. At worst they forgot to put somewhere on the book that you need the Ebberon Campaign Setting.


It doesn't matter in the slightest what the "general conception" is.Actually, yes it does. The "general conception" will determine how others respond to the material. Read the first post in this thread. Races of Ebberon was immediately labeled as Campaign Specific material.

[Tacoma]

I'd say if it says "Races of Eberron" it's for Eberron regardless of whether you can port it anywhere you like. Kind of like how the Forgotten Realms hardcover for 3.0 was ... for Forgotten Realms.

I mean sure you can just do whatever you like and put Dragonlance draconians up against WW2 Russian paratroopers. But to say the draconians or the Russians aren't setting-specific is silly.

A Human is not setting specific. Neither is a Golem. A Warforged is from Eberron. Sure it could be anywhere else. But it's an Eberron thing.

Might as well ask your DM to let you play a Giff space pirate from the Rock of Bral. Or a Drow priestess of Eilistraee.

EDIT: If you get the Warforged Warblade thing going, you need to take a level in Warlock. And name him Warren the Warwarwar. That would rock so hard.

[hamishspence]

the material in the book is designed to be used in Eberron, but, at the same time, it is encouraged to make adjustments and import them into other settings.

Shifter and Changeling can fit anywhere- descendants of human/were and human/doppleganger hybridization over time.

Warforged are trickier, but Faerun has had Old Empires with construct armies- they can be passed off as survivors from this period.

4th ed moved Shifters, Changlings, Warforged, into the main book (dopplegangers and changelings being merged, so new doppleganger is playable from first level and looks like the old changeling)

it is possible to use Races of Eberron without the Eberron campaign setting, just difficult. MM3 helps.

Eilistraee is a bit faerun-ish, but Kiaransalee can be used outside of Faerun, as Kiaransali.

[NEO|Phyte]

EDIT: If you get the Warforged Warblade thing going, you need to take a level in Warlock. And name him Warren the Warwarwar. That would rock so hard.

Throw in War Mind too, if psionics are in.

[Noneoyabizzness]

a book is as "campaign specific as a dm allows it to be.

in this case, races of ebberon is campaign specific because the dm said so.

I think soem of those feats need to be agured in as part of their racial features buth nothign in the book seems abusrdly a must have.

uless you are playign a druid. ironwood would be must have

[Knaight]

A Human is not setting specific. Neither is a Golem. A Warforged is from Eberron. Sure it could be anywhere else. But it's an Eberron thing.

A warforged is basically just a small, intelligent golem, which typically uses weapons and such. Its not much more setting specific than a golem in general. That said Golems are very setting specific. I can think of at least three games I've run where they wouldn't fit at all(one modern, two sci fi. One of the sci-fi didn't even have humanoid robots, they weren't practical. The PC robot form, and the other robot forms were. No sci-fi golem at all.)

[Waspinator]

I'd say if it says "Races of Eberron" it's for Eberron regardless of whether you can port it anywhere you like. Kind of like how the Forgotten Realms hardcover for 3.0 was ... for Forgotten Realms.

I mean sure you can just do whatever you like and put Dragonlance draconians up against WW2 Russian paratroopers. But to say the draconians or the Russians aren't setting-specific is silly.

A Human is not setting specific. Neither is a Golem. A Warforged is from Eberron. Sure it could be anywhere else. But it's an Eberron thing.

Might as well ask your DM to let you play a Giff space pirate from the Rock of Bral. Or a Drow priestess of Eilistraee.

EDIT: If you get the Warforged Warblade thing going, you need to take a level in Warlock. And name him Warren the Warwarwar. That would rock so hard.

MORE WAR THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR!

[Tacoma]

Made with Lightning. REAL LIGHTNING!

POWER LIFTING, POWER EATING, POWER FIGHTING, POWER LOOTING!

He needs black and yellow stripe war paint as well.

"Danger! This unit craves your blood!"

[Iku Rex]

No it's not true for other races, because DMs generally start the campaign with what books material is allowed from (or if they don't, should).
So I'm wrong because you shouldn't ask for permission if ... the DM has already given you permission (by allowing the book without reservation). Thank you for your help Zeful. :smallsigh:


I was looking through the Shifter section when I wrote that, there was no header, sidebar, nothing, that would allow a DM to look over the Race's conceptualization without reading the entire entry."The race's conceptualization"?! Huh?

Where in the entry for goliaths (RoS) or raptorans (RotW) can I find this must-have header, sidebar or whatever?

And what has that got to do with anything?


So either write new fluff or force the DM to make his setting as much like Ebberon as possible (including how druids, religions, and the planes are organized)? Seems a little extreme to me.Again: "As far as I can see most of the fluff can be fitted into other settings with only minor changes."

Notice the words "most of" and "minor changes".

(The same is true for the other "Races of" races, although Races of Eberron probably requires a little more effort. Like I said, the decision to make it non-specific was probably last minute.)


And they did a very poor job of it at best. At worst they forgot to put somewhere on the book that you need the Ebberon Campaign Setting.True.


The "general conception" will determine how others respond to the material.Sure. But it does not matter to how the book is formally classified by WotC. Which, if you recall, is what I was talking about.



Read the first post in this thread. Races of Ebberon was immediately labeled as Campaign Specific material.No it wasn't.

Read the first post in the thread.

He's using the Eberron races in MM3 as a loophole in order to avoid the "no Eberron stuff" campaign rule. The fact that WotC technically classifies Races of Eberron as a generic DnD product is clearly relevant.

[Iku Rex]

I'd say if it says "Races of Eberron" it's for Eberron regardless of whether you can port it anywhere you like. Kind of like how the Forgotten Realms hardcover for 3.0 was ... for Forgotten Realms. You seem to be missing a key point here.

Look at this.
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_eberron_177450000_lgpic.jpghttp://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_dndacc_953690000_lgpic.jpg

Identical design. Dungeons and Dragons logo. It means they're classified as generic DnD.

What do Eberron books look like?

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_eberron_957297200_lgpic.jpghttp://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_eberron_953807200_lgpic.jpg

Notice the Eberron logo and look identifying them as "Eberron books".

The 3.25 "Races of Faerun" is setting specific, and so it has the Forgotten Realms logo and look.

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_dndacc_885780000_lgpic.jpg

[Tacoma]

Well when it comes down to it he could just say his character is a golem using all the rules for Warforged.

But Warforged are the remnants of a battle that happened in a magic-saturated "magic-as-technology" setting of Eberron. That history doesn't exist in a milquetoast vanilla D&D setting. Standard D&D doesn't have magic trains or armies of magical robots and artificers to repair them.

I guess the question to ask is whether the DM wants to allow it. Even when I say a book is fair game I retain the right to veto something weird and crazy in it. I mean, if he's letting you play something from MM3 why don't you just go for a Blink Dog Rogue or a Flumph Commoner?

Regardless of what we say, you should have a number of character concepts written down so he can look them all over. If you're way off base with the Warforged thing you still have other cool ideas to fall back on.

[Tacoma]

Heroes Ready for Anything, Anywhere

Dauntless adventurers arise from among the spirited races of the warforged, shifters, changelings, and kalashtar. These bold explorers hurl themselves into the most dangerous quests with an unquenchable thirst for fortune and glory.

This supplement for the D&D game provides detailed information on the psychology, society, culture, behavior, religion, folklore, and other aspects of the races originally presented in the Eberron Campaign Setting. In addition, Races of Eberron also provides new substitution levels, prestige classes, feats, spells, magic items, equipment, and other options for creating exciting characters ready to explore any campaign world.

Source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberron/177450000)

I point out bolded section 1, the title. Anywhere. And bolded section 3, same deal. The middle bolded section makes it obvious that this material was orginally Eberronic.

From a marketing perspective, it is smart to make people think all of your products are useful to them. You don't want people excluding themselves from buying any book. Ideally, they each buy ten copies of every book.

The people marketing the book took material that was setting-specific to Eberron and reprinted it saying "look now you can use it anywhere." Do we care what the marketing people tell us? If they tell us New Coke tastes better do we believe them, or taste it and draw our own conclusions?

Cover art is meaningless.

[Iku Rex]

But Warforged are the remnants of a battle that happened in a magic-saturated "magic-as-technology" setting of Eberron. That history doesn't exist in a milquetoast vanilla D&D setting. Standard D&D doesn't have magic trains or armies of magical robots and artificers to repair them. You don't need all that.

You just need a big war at some point in the past with spellcasters capable of building constructs on at least one side. And that's only if you insist on keeping most of the fluff.

[Tacoma]

One could argue equally that all you need to add to vanilla D&D is uranium and you'd quite reasonably have radioactive energy and mutations and such. And the jump to "if you have mutations then I don't see why I can't have a character from Gamma World" or something like that is pretty short.

I mean, if you're in Forgotten Realms there are places like Halruua where there are airships. And the Old Empires, as has been mentioned, were into this kind of magical warfare thing.

But he doesn't have those things. He has a campaign world where nothing special exists unless he says otherwise. But at character creation there is none of that present.

[Iku Rex]

One could argue equally that all you need to add to vanilla D&D is uranium and you'd quite reasonably have radioactive energy and mutations and such. And the jump to "if you have mutations then I don't see why I can't have a character from Gamma World" or something like that is pretty short.

I mean, if you're in Forgotten Realms there are places like Halruua where there are airships. And the Old Empires, as has been mentioned, were into this kind of magical warfare thing.
Wars, magical warfare, spellcasters and constructs already exist in any even remotely vanilla DnD setting.

[Tacoma]

But not intelligent constructs, nor armies made of them, and magical wars are generally "our big spell WMD killed everyone" rather than magical footsoldiers blasting each other with Stormtrooper Marksmanship.

[Iku Rex]

But not intelligent constructs,Even the core MM has inevitables and homunculi (intelligent constructs). Add other generic DnD books (allowed in the OP's DM's campaign world) and there are more, like maugs (FF) and nimblewrights (MMII).


nor armies made of them, You don't need vast armies of warforged to allow warforged in the campaign world and keep the Last War fluff. You just need armies. Even Eberron warforged typically served in "mixed" armies.


and magical wars are generally "our big spell WMD killed everyone" rather than magical footsoldiers blasting each other with Stormtrooper Marksmanship.The Last War was not a "magical war" the way you seem to think. Yes, it had summoned outsiders, shambling undead, built constructs, wand-wielding mages, healing clerics - you know, standard vanilla DnD warfare stuff. You can find it in both Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk. Actually, Eberron spellcasters are generally quite weak compared to their counterparts from other settings.

(Have you even read the Eberron book? You seem to know very little about the setting.)

[Waspinator]

Personally, I think Warforged are one of the easiest "races" to incorporate into any given setting just because all they need to exist is one really bored, high-level wizard when most races would need a sizable amount of land for their civilization to have enough of a population to endure.

[Panda-s1]

Yeah, I really can't see why any race can't be allowed into D&D so long as they're strictly fantasy themed (humans not withstanding). In my setting, warforged are a product of a small desert nation hidden from the rest of the world who had to fight a war. After the war, warforged caught the attention of many nations and kingdoms around the world, thus spreading warforged to various parts of the world. But they don't have to be built for war, I mean someone brought up goliaths and raptorans, why can't warforged be like them and just be a race on their own (BTW, this is meant to force you to be creative :P)?

But that's just me. Let me ask you all this though: what if your DM didn't allow dwarves in their campaign?