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WeeFreeMen
2009-01-07, 04:04 PM
Hello all!

I am In need of some help.

-I want to optimize my my character in my current campaign, I need a prestige class that is versatile enough to keep my Ninja alive in combat, since he has low-average HP since I roll crappy, and also to the point were he will be OK with the Stealth and/or RP aspects of the campaign.

-The campaign setting is Rokugan, and the d20 Version we are using is 3.0 and 3.5, as In anything from either version is acceptable so long as the DM allows it.
This means Any 3.0 or 3.5 Books are acceptable, as well as anything else you guys can cook up, so long as It passes the DM test. (Just try to not make it outrageous, make it fit the Ninja "Lore" and Versatility)

-My Current Character:

Race: Changeling (Its a nifty Race for Ninja with the +10 Disguise, think I got it from Ebberon book)
Class (By level):
-1:Ninja
-2:Ninja
-3:Monk
-4:Monk
-5-12: ???
Stats: (Attribute) (Dice Roll) (Modifier)
Strength -10- +0
Dexterity -18- +4
Constitution -12- +1
Intelligence -14- +2
Wisdom -16- +3
Charisma -14- +2

Alignment: Lawful Evil (Ninja) Cover Identity (Neutral Good)

-House Rules: OK, our DM likes to make up a lot of his own "Systems" for Item rolls such as If a vender has the item we are looking for he rolls d% and uses a chart or something, Another house rule is that He uses his own Skill point system in that characters gain Max skill points at rank 1 but don't add the (times X) after adding Int+6 (for my class). However, we add +1 to all Class skills every 2 levels, and we gain +Skill points equal to our Int modifier (for me +2) , along with this the requirements for anything we had to meet such as Prestige class, DC, or Skill/Feat reqs goes down by 3. For instance if a book says I need 12 Stealth into dancing to become a Super Awesome Ninja it is modified so that I only need 9 Stealth.ALSO, our DM has combined several skills into one category: Athletics, Acrobatics, Stealth, Perception, Thievery.

My Request: So basically I'm asking you guys this..I would like you guys to build my Ninja up to lv12 with Level by level steps for Feats and Prestige/General Classes. If it is Ninja/ Assassin, Ninja/Wizard, Ninja/Spider-Pig. As long as It can hold its own in combat, be effective support for when I'm not on solo missions and can support the party WITHOUT breaking my cover (IE: No super ultra special attacks or using Ki to turn invisible), and to be able to RP (even thou thats mostly up to me on how my character RPs, I don't want to have him just a combat blade)

Additional Info:

The Party:
-Lv4 Samurai/Shaman (Gish)
-Lv3 Psion/ Pyro thing (Eventually)
-Lv4 Goliath Tank Psionic Warrior (We basically use him as a Meat sheild)


REBUILD!!: My feats are probably crap as I usually play the caster, however I decided to become a sneaky squirrel in this campaign and I just picked a lot of generic feats:

Feats:
-Weapon Finesse
-Combat Expertise
-Improved Faint
-Enduring Ki

Class:
-Improved Unarmed Strike
-Evasion
-Trap finding
-Flurry of Blows


__________________________________________________ _______________

End Note: I have access to pretty much all books, I use d20srd, and I'm loving the Giant forums.

Thank you guys in advance for the help.

Kazuel
2009-01-07, 04:12 PM
Well let me start by saying that every level you take as a monk is a step backward from Optimization. It Monk and Ninja both get some very similar abilities that don't stack. For instance, you don't get to add your wisdom to your AC for each class. Is you DM open to retraining class levels to all ninja? Also, cross classing ninja and monk is going to severly limit your sudden strike advancement. Honestly, if I were you I would go Swordsage, specializing in Shadow Hand and Diamond Mind disciplines. Ninja is just fluff, you don't actually have to take the class to be one. Sorry I don't have much to offer in advice towards working with what you got though.

AslanCross
2009-01-07, 04:43 PM
Swordsage definitely fits the Ninja theme. The Tome of Battle even has a Prestige Class called the Shadow Sun Ninja.

I'd go with the Swordsage suggestion. You could focus on Shadow Hand plus the following:
-Desert Wind (if you want to be a Naruto ninja with big explosions)
-Diamond Mind (if you like to have mind-over-matter abilities. A lot of Diamond Mind maneuvers are great for speed and assassination)
-Stone Dragon (if you want to have some solid, heavy-hitting attacks with a lot of damage dice)
-Tiger Claw (if you're going to do TWF).

Shadow Hand gives you a Greater Invisibility maneuver as well as teleportation, so it definitely fits the ninja theme.

Person_Man
2009-01-07, 04:56 PM
It looks like a pretty weak build. Ninja and Monk are both weak classes, and they don't synergize well. For feats, I'd suggest Item Familiar, Craven, Staggering Strike, Darkstalker, Dive for Cover, and Dragonfire Strike (bypasses Sneak Attack Immunity if your DM is nice). Remember that Sudden Strike = Sneak Attacks for feats.

If you can, rebuild your class into a strait Swordsage or Rogue. If you can't, for your Prestige Class, I'd suggest Setting Sun Ninja (Tome of Battle) or Tattooed Monk. Pick up the following tattoos:

Chameleon: Alter Self for 1 hour per class level. Synergizes well with your high Disguise check, and a great source of personal buffs (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=176246).

White Mask: +10 unnamed bonus on Bluff, immunity to Detect Thoughts, Lies, and alignment.

Crab: DR 2*tattoos/magic (useful against most animals, undead, constructs, vermin, elementals, ooze, giants, etc. At the very least, it often forces your DM to throw enemies with magic weapons against you, which means better loot.)

Phoenix: SR 15 + class level.

Proven_Paradox
2009-01-07, 06:27 PM
I'll add another voice for the Tome of Battle's swordsage. The only thing it can't do that you might want to be able to manage with a ninja is handle traps, and a rogue dip can get you a long way there--especially if disable device is in the condensed theivery skill, which I would guess a swordsage would get.


If you don't have the ToB though, you'll need other options. First off, those monk levels are doing almost nothing for you. Is it possible to get rid of those? If so, consider throwing rogue in there, or possibly scout, or hell, just more ninja. All of that is a lot more useful than monk for this. A two level monk dip can be useful to some builds, but for this one there's no synergy at all.

For a PrC, your character looks like a good candidate for assassin. That'll net you some very useful spellcasting, sneak attack progression, and death attack--which can be incredibly potent if you utilize invisibility and have a party that can wait for a couple of rounds before striking. The prereqs should be no problem for you.

woodenbandman
2009-01-07, 07:41 PM
I'm going to be the first to tell you to use a swordsage.

Use a swordsage.

If you're unfamiliar with this class, and you are, or you wouldn't be using Ninja, it's in the Tome of Battle. The swordsage is basically the ninja, monk, and some magic all rolled into one. You can get great results with only swordsage, and it's fun to multiclass with too (try the Ruby Knight Vindicator to hide and move silently in heavy armor for extra humor). Check out the Tome of Battle, it's really cool..

If you don't want to check out the tome of battle, I'd suggest a Monk1/Rogue 11 with the feat Ascetic rogue, giving you unarmed damage of a 12th level monk. You have full normal sneak attack, too. If you want to become invisible, buy a wand of invisibility.

Feats would be probably

1 Weapon Finesse
F Combat Expertise
F Two Weapon Fighting
B: Combat Reflexes
B: Stunning Fist(I believe that ascetic rogue stacks your monk leves and rogue levels for this)
3 Ascetic Rogue
6 Tactile Trapsmith
9 Improved Two-weapon fighting
12 Open Feat.

You don't really need tactile trapsmith, but it does reduce your dependancy on multiple stats. Also consider Carmedine Monk instead, which will allow you to go Int instead of Wis on your monk AC bonus.

The reason for rogue over ninja is because ninja basically blows its load in a single combat, while a rogue goes all day. Which is good. You're basically a less magical ninja this way, and if worst comes to worst, you can ape the caster with your Use Magic Device skill, a skill which I always max on ANY sneak build. If you're all alone in the cold cruel world, you will never stop appreciating a wand of dimension door.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-01-07, 07:49 PM
Here's a Ninja Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=518732). It's got some good ideas, if I recall correctly.

Hida Reju
2009-01-08, 02:13 AM
If you really want to keep Ninja/Monk you need the feat Ascetic Stalker from Complete Scoundrel. That lets you keep your Unarmed progression and keep pumping ninja up.

I would then go Ninja 16/Monk 4, I think that should do you just fine.

Kaiyanwang
2009-01-08, 05:20 AM
If you really want to keep Ninja/Monk you need the feat Ascetic Stalker from Complete Scoundrel. That lets you keep your Unarmed progression and keep pumping ninja up.

I would then go Ninja 16/Monk 4, I think that should do you just fine.

Second this. Some Monk bonus feat can be useful for ambush feats. I'd suggest to check Crystalkeep and/or Complete Scoundrel to find things like disemboweling strike or headshot, or staggering strike from CA.

And BTW, he asked advices for a Ninja/Monk, not for a swordsage. I expect to see in the future someone asking advices to a Swordsage built, and people answering "roll a Swordsage instead" fo a respondent conditioning (originally posted by Ivan Pavlov).

A well played Ninja is fun and can makes enemies explode by damage output, if well played. Simply, has not "click this to obtain effect" powers like the swordsage, you have to invent your strategy.

Kazuel
2009-01-08, 08:39 AM
Yeah and he was also asking for optimization advice and wanted to be viable in combat. You can't come and ask people "I am asking this question and I want to hear X answer." (not that I'm saying the OP did this mind you). He asked for advice and we gave it to him, now it's his turn to do with it as he pleases.