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Harperfan7
2009-01-09, 06:17 AM
What do you think is the best combination of races and classes to make a party is? Maybe add in gender and alignment?

4-5-6 character core only party?

4-5-6 character (add in whatever) party?

Mastikator
2009-01-09, 06:24 AM
Best for what? Killing monsters? Conquest? Leveling fast? Having RP-goodness fun? Surviving a killer DM?

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-09, 06:24 AM
Three tiefling warlocks and two dragonborn warlords.

Oh, wait, were you talking about 3.X?

Or Star Wars SAGA?

Tags! Tags tags tags!

Shpadoinkle
2009-01-09, 06:28 AM
Cleric
Cleric
Cleric
Cleric
(Cleric)
(Cleric)

Harperfan7
2009-01-09, 07:00 AM
Sorry everybody,

Now its "Best Overall 3.5 Party"

...although I do like "Having RP-goodness fun"

Satyr
2009-01-09, 08:23 AM
Still, the question best for what? stays unanswered. "Best" in regards of power would probably a circle of clerics, druids and wizards, but that can be rather boring.
The "most fun" group is a completely subjective measure and depends completely on the players and their preferences. For example, one of the groups I enjoyed the most had no spellcasters more powerful than a ranger, and all characters were part of a mercenary unit with shady moral standards, burning down cities and enslaving their denizens for fun and profit. I greatly enjoyed it, others would probably find it boring because of the scarce appearance of magic or even aggravating because of some of the topics.

Jack_Simth
2009-01-09, 08:28 AM
Sorry everybody,

Now its "Best Overall 3.5 Party"

...although I do like "Having RP-goodness fun"

Fundamentally:
It's a game. The only real goal is to have fun. Thus, the best party makeup is what allows you to have the most fun.

If you want something mechanically strong ...

Cleric
Cleric
Cleric
Druid
(Druid)
(Druid)

They've all got 3/4's BAB, d8 hit dice, some weapon proficiencies, and armor proficiency - so when the antimagic field turns on, they can melee and ranged-fight at least somewhat. Magic Domain means there is at least one in the party that can use magic items. Travel Domain means they've got Teleport available. Fire&Earth, or Water&Air, or Earth&Water, or Fire&Air domains mean that elementals aren't much of a problem (Turning). Buff spells mean that they can save a lot on their equipment budget, and focus on Wis boosters early. Spontaneous Summons mean never needing to worry about traps for long.

Harperfan7
2009-01-09, 08:32 AM
Okay, no two people of the same class, and "Best Overall" includes funness-roleplaying-flavor-taste-etc.

So basically, if the normal 4 person would be cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard and 5 adds a bard and 6 adds a ranger, would you agree, if not, what would you suggest?

Im not looking for answers per se, I just want to see some opionions.

Chineselegolas
2009-01-09, 08:40 AM
Monk, Commoner, Expert and Warrior.
Then toss in Truenamer, and finally someone to bankroll, the Aristocrat.
(Some one was bound to say that at some point...)

Realistically, a Beguiler, Warlock, Sorcerer and Paladin.
A very 'face' centric party, and thus a rather fun clash of egos. Paladin is theoretically mechanically weaker, but with the others, he can be buffed up.
And besides, watching a Paladin argue with the Warlock about the nature of his powers while the Beguiler picks his pocket...
Bunch of misfits is fun to play.

Last_resort_33
2009-01-09, 08:40 AM
Fundamentally:
It's a game. The only real goal is to have fun. Thus, the best party makeup is what allows you to have the most fun.

If you want something mechanically strong ...

Cleric
Cleric
Cleric
Druid
(Druid)
(Druid)

They've all got 3/4's BAB, d8 hit dice, some weapon proficiencies, and armor proficiency - so when the antimagic field turns on, they can melee and ranged-fight at least somewhat. Magic Domain means there is at least one in the party that can use magic items. Travel Domain means they've got Teleport available. Fire&Earth, or Water&Air, or Earth&Water, or Fire&Air domains mean that elementals aren't much of a problem (Turning). Buff spells mean that they can save a lot on their equipment budget, and focus on Wis boosters early. Spontaneous Summons mean never needing to worry about traps for long.

Actually if people bothered to role play properly, that could lead to a VERY fun game!

*Ponders a campaign about a group of clerics, each representing one of the major good or neutral Gods (Preferably ones that bicker slightly between each other) having to work together on a quest to stop the evil Lord BBEG on his quest to Horribly-Evil-Godhood*

Brett Wong
2009-01-09, 08:43 AM
Core?

Core Slots
Sorcerer (Face, Blaster)
Wizard (Utility)
Cleric (Cleric/Fighter [Less so without non-core material])
Druid (Fighter/Animal Companion [wild shape], Support Blasting, Healing and Utility)

5th slot
Rogue (Sneak, Pointman) or Druid (Supplemental), dependent on your parties play style. The rogue can be an asset to your team because when your face can't get you something the team wants, you could just *take it* I mean your a party of primary spell casters. Or you could sneak it, which is usually more fun. Rogues are pretty crazy at sneaking They fill this role even better if they enter Shadow Dancer, then it's really worth it to 'just let the rogue get it'. Druids can wild shape into something and fill this role as well, but I think that shadow dancers are still more effective.

6th slot
Barbarian (Door Opener) or Druid (Supplemental), dependent on your parties play style, Barbarian is a useful door opener/trap setter offer, more so with his class abilities. Druids are still in my opinion the most versatile class in core because they can choose to be a mighty warrior, or a vicious spellcaster, or both at the same time and they have a ton of neat abilities on top. Their animal companion really gives them the edge early game, and continues to be useful into late.

[[Season lightly with Leadership:smalltongue:]]

Telonius
2009-01-09, 08:45 AM
If we are constrained to not repeat classes:

Power
Wizard
Cleric
Druid
Artificer
(Archivist)
(Bard)

Standard Roles
Arcane - Wizard
Healbot - Cleric
Skillmonkey - Factotum
Meatshield - ... probably Warblade
(Fifth Wheel) - Bard
(The Other Guy) - Artificer

Fun - classes I've had most fun playing
Sorcerer
Ranger
Rogue
Cleric
(Warlock)
(Swashbucker)

What can I say, I like the high-charisma guys. :smallbiggrin:

Satyr
2009-01-09, 08:46 AM
Okay then, I'll give it a try.

1.: Warblade/Fighter/Barbarian/Crusader: Every good party has an asskicker. The asskicker is the big, threatening guy with the big, threatening sword(s) who is there for the "hero stuff". If he is not only strong and tough, but also intelligent and charismatic, you have the optimal party leader.

2: Warblade/Fighter/Barbarian/Crusader: one Asskicker is nice, but rarely enough. These are, after all, the heroic characters, and should make a significant share of the group and asskicking comes in different styles. You could have asskicker #1 as a strongly offense character, wielding a greatsword and specialise in dealing as much damage as possible, while asskicker #2 is more focused on durability, defense and protection of others.

3.: Rogue/Scout/Ranger: It is highly recommendable to have a character who can sneak and scout about without being detected and who can either face the great wilderness or at least the urban jungle.

4.: Sorcerer/Favorite Soul/Beguiler/Healer: Spellcaster tend to overshadow other characters, therefore it is most of the time a good idea to avoid the most powerful of them. To make sure that magic stays something special, it is also obligatory that it is rare, so the optimal group should never include more than one full spellcaster.

5.: Something Strange. A group can always have one - and exactly one - exotic, strange character. More than one, and they aren't exotic anymore, so a certain exclusivity is mandatory. Exotic characters include non-core species, strange class combinations ore just rare classes (e.g. a ninja in a mostly westernized setting).

Mushroom Ninja
2009-01-09, 08:46 AM
Basic Party:
Cleric
Druid
Wizard
Factotum

If more are needed:
Archivist
Warblade

Eldariel
2009-01-09, 08:51 AM
Hm, best Core party is probably Wizard, Rogue 1/Wizard 19, Druid, Druid, assuming you need Trapfinding (say, you're going to WLD). I went through it at one point, and two Improved Familiars, two Animal Companions and four full casting classes (along with two melee classes) just pretty much makes challenges go boom.

Out of core, the biggest things are that Clerics grow much stronger (Spontaneous Domains and a bunch of Domains = Wizard-list, and DMM...) and you'll probably want an Artificer in the party, along with maybe Archivist. Oh, and you no longer need the Rogue-level as a Cleric or an Artificer can be your trapfinder (or a Wizard+feat).

monty
2009-01-09, 02:11 PM
Druid
Kobold Cloistered Cleric
Wizard
Anything else

Druid is your tank, of course. CC is healbot/buffer AND trapmonkey, assuming he takes the Kobold domain. Wizard is, well, the wizard. At that point, do you really need a fourth person?

NeoVid
2009-01-09, 02:19 PM
Best for game balance and fun could be Crusader, Factotum, Psion, Favored Soul.

Better to have tier 2 and 3 characters in the party instead of the usual Cleric, Wizard, Rogue, Fighter default party, which has two tier 1s and a 4 and 5.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-09, 02:24 PM
The best overall party is the one who works together. Classes/races are irrelevant.

Eldariel
2009-01-09, 02:28 PM
Druid
Kobold Cloistered Cleric
Wizard
Anything else

Druid is your tank, of course. CC is healbot/buffer AND trapmonkey, assuming he takes the Kobold domain. Wizard is, well, the wizard. At that point, do you really need a fourth person?

Artificer for really, really cheap equipment? Heck, you could have him handle Trapfinding as they're Int-focused and thus better at it than Clerics.

monty
2009-01-09, 02:38 PM
Artificer for really, really cheap equipment? Heck, you could have him handle Trapfinding as they're Int-focused and thus better at it than Clerics.

I don't have that much experience with artificers. Do they get the Trapfinding feature? If not, they're not going to be any good at it at high levels.

Telonius
2009-01-09, 02:41 PM
They do indeed. Also the ability to cheaply manufacture all of the shiny toys that will benefit the rest of the party, without the need for the Wizard to depend on spending item creation feats or having a nearby Ye Olde Magick Shoppe.

Eldariel
2009-01-09, 02:43 PM
I don't have that much experience with artificers. Do they get the Trapfinding feature? If not, they're not going to be any good at it at high levels.

Of course they do. Why else would I suggest it? Trapfinder is truly the only "full caster" (in the sense that they can build items of any spells almost for free) with native Trapfinding, Int-focus and 4+Int skillpoints.

chiasaur11
2009-01-09, 02:56 PM
Druid
Kobold Cloistered Cleric
Wizard
Anything else

Druid is your tank, of course. CC is healbot/buffer AND trapmonkey, assuming he takes the Kobold domain. Wizard is, well, the wizard. At that point, do you really need a fourth person?

Kobold Paladin with Knowledge: The planes?

BRC
2009-01-09, 03:06 PM
Factotum (for Skillmonkeyness)
Wizard (For being Batman)
Druid (for mauling)
Cleric (for healing)

xPANCAKEx
2009-01-09, 03:18 PM
any of the above as long as they're kobolds

Draz74
2009-01-09, 03:20 PM
Druid is your tank, of course. CC is healbot/buffer AND trapmonkey, assuming he takes the Kobold domain. Wizard is, well, the wizard. At that point, do you really need a fourth person?

How 'bout someone with a modicum of social skills? Party Face is an important role in my experience. Bard, Beguiler, Telepath, Rogue, Dragonfire Adept, whatever.


Best for game balance and fun could be Crusader, Factotum, Psion, Favored Soul.

My favorite combo, with a similar philosophy to this one, is Warblade, Ardent, Factotum, Dragonfire Adept.

Darth Stabber
2009-01-09, 03:34 PM
Duskblade
Bard
Wu Jen
Favored soul
(Dragon shaman)
(totemist)

Noneoyabizzness
2009-01-09, 03:47 PM
core only
cleric-sometimes you need the heal sometiems you need to rain holy pain
wizard-sometimes you need a guy with not so holy pain
rogue-skills are almost always going to be your friend
rogue/paladin-either an sa specialist or a holy beatstick.
bard-the man who is the best "face" and can be built to suppliment anythign lacking in at least one of the other 4.
ranger-there is no reason not to go ranger for a 6th man. either aids the flanking of the rogues, or recons the area, or jsut hails out the arrows.

all books
archivist-most of the perks of th cleric with the utility of the wizard and some bonuses to kill stuff.
wizard-still the best nonholy pain layer.
warblade-gleehehehe
rogue/scout-since the warblde will be able to do the mundane damage on par with sneak if not moreso, skills are your firends, and scout gives you the recon perks. but rogue offers more consisant damage if needed to also suppliment the damage dealing
Bard-the quintessential 5th man, in spite how nifty the factotum is, the bard just has lore and other little perks and prcs that make it irreplacable
warmage or warlock-no matter how much the board loves to say otherwise, sometimes the best answer is a fireball.

Keld Denar
2009-01-09, 04:20 PM
We just want to rock and roll all day, and adventure all of the night

Warforged Dragonfire Adept (crowd control + damage)
Warforged Crusader (crowd control + damage + healing)
Warforged Warlock (crowd control + damage)
Warforged Factotum (everything else + damage)

Warforged Dragon Shaman (Vigor Aura + damage)

Warforged Warblade (more damage)

No classes rely on per day abilities like spells, turn undead attempts, or bardic music. Sure, the Crusader gets smites/day, but its such a small feature. No one in the party has to stop to eat or sleep, so you could keep adventuring non-stop until you rust. If you take damage, wait till the Vigor Aura gets you to 1/2, then punch each other for subdual while Marshal Spirit heals you up. Couple minutes tops between encounters.

Also, if things get really really bad, you can conbine to form Voltron, with the warlock providing "FORM BLAZING SWORD" with an Eldritch Glaive! :P

JaxGaret
2009-01-09, 05:23 PM
Can't go wrong with the Big Five: Archivist, Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.

All humans, of course.

If you go into specific builds, then it just comes down to how much of a munchkin you want to be.

You can throw in a Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage as the 6th wheel, just for thoroughness' sake.

FMArthur
2009-01-09, 06:23 PM
Factotum/Chameleon
Warlock/Chameleon
Rogue/Chameleon
Beguiler/Chameleon


The chameleon prestige class gives a lot of flexibility from day-to-day and if they plan well, this team can be prepared for virtually anything. The base classes provide enough unique specialization that everyone can feel needed, although it is usually not the case as more often than not, any one of them could substitute for another in a pinch. On some days they'll simulate a Wizard/Cleric/Fighter/Rogue party, and on others they can all go straight Wizard or Cleric or whatever.