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View Full Version : [3.5] Rolling Hitpoints. How do you prefer it?



Simanos
2009-01-09, 07:03 AM
Warrior types will often sulk when they get a bad roll (like a 1 on a d10) for hitpoints. How do you prefer to roll hitpoints?
The basic variants (other than total randomness of the die) are max hitpoints at level 1 and either rerolling a bad roll (usually under half max) or replace bad rolls with half the hit die max. Some GMs allow re-rolling a even second consecutive bad roll. Others allow max hitpoints per level (though not fair for the mobs).

How about changing hit dice from d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 to d4, d4+2, d4+4, d4+6, d4+8. Statistically it is not very different from above variants (favors warrior classes a bit), but it is less cumbersome and can be easily used for monsters fast.

Saph
2009-01-09, 07:07 AM
I give players a choice of either taking high-average HP (e.g. 4 on a d6) or rolling and counting any roll below low-average as the low-average (e.g. any result below 3 on a d6 counts as a 3.)

Statistically it works out fairly similar, and means the players still get the choice between randomness and predictability. Players like that.

- Saph

Harperfan7
2009-01-09, 07:08 AM
I used to allow them to reroll a 1 once, but now I would prefer if they dealt with it.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-09, 07:13 AM
I rarely bother rolling for monsters (and if it's got 10+ HD, it's pointless anyway, because the result will be quite close to the average). PCs roll, traditionally. Whining is useless, because over even 10 levels, it will average out.

Your idea is fine, but you need to change up the numbers.

The averages for the defaults are: d4 2.5, d6 3.5, d8 4.5, d10 5.5, d12 6.5
The averages for yours are: d4 2.5, d4+2 4.5, d4+4 6.5, d4+6 8.5, d4+8 10.5.

So the difference keeps increasing. That's no good. (edit: Also, it is statistically hugely different, what are you on about? /edit) You need to go:

d3+1 3 (or d2+2 3.5), d4+2 4.5, d6+2 5.5, d8+2 6.5, d10+2 7.5

That way, the difference from the average stays the same.

Satyr
2009-01-09, 07:18 AM
I don't roll at all, but use a fixed set of hitpoints; d4=1, d6=2, etc., and scale them by size. I never found it very intuitive that a small creature should ever had as many hitpoints as a large one. On First level, characters gain 1.5 times of the normal amount of hitpoints.

AslanCross
2009-01-09, 07:27 AM
My players just ask me to roll their HP for them, because I seem to be far luckier at it than they are.

Dhavaer
2009-01-09, 07:31 AM
I prefer not to roll, either high or low average hp. I prefer rolling hp to rolling stats, though.

Ravens_cry
2009-01-09, 07:37 AM
Our DM lets us reroll any hitdice once if we so choose, but whatever comes up that time, we have to keep. It works well enough.

Hida Reju
2009-01-09, 07:40 AM
I usually just max the HP for both the monsters and the PC's. It seems to work out just fine and makes the big fights last a bit longer than one attack.

metagaia
2009-01-09, 07:44 AM
I give players a choice of either taking high-average HP (e.g. 4 on a d6) or rolling and counting any roll below low-average as the low-average (e.g. any result below 3 on a d6 counts as a 3.)

Statistically it works out fairly similar, and means the players still get the choice between randomness and predictability. Players like that.

- Saph

Not a bad system, statistically speaking, it's worth taking the average for a d4, (average on the roll is 2.75) and rolling for d8 and above (5.25, 6.5 and 7.75 averages as you go up). However, given that warrior classes need a much higher HP total anyway, I might use that system myself.

Uin
2009-01-09, 08:11 AM
I just use best-side-of-average in 3.5e and Saga, people in my gaming circle seem to be picking it up as well.

(d4=3, d6=4, d8=5, d10=6, d12=7)

Myou
2009-01-09, 08:12 AM
Everyone gets max HP. No bad rolls to deal with and, as Hida Reju said, it makes the fights last a little longer.

Greymane
2009-01-09, 08:18 AM
I play with a group of friends, and because we enjoy big numbers, we have house-rules to buff the PCs a bit. Namely, we like our HP.

Levels 1-4, you get max HP for your HD.
Beyond that, it's average +1 or roll, player's choice.

I leave monster health at average, unless it's an important monster/NPC, in which case I max their HP.

Works rather well, though, I've successfully brought my players to bleeding several times in a single encounter.... So that's just my bad.

Telonius
2009-01-09, 08:32 AM
Max plus con bonus (or minus con penalty) at first level, roll all the rest, you're stuck with the result. Yep, sometimes that means the Wizard gets more than the Barbarian. Suck it up, it'll average out over 20 levels.

Random NPC
2009-01-09, 09:51 AM
Re-roll the first 1. The second 1 is stuck there.

Obviously the dice Gods are punishing them for their transgressions if they roll two 1s in a row.

EDIT: Except d4s. They get three chances.

Llama231
2009-01-09, 09:55 AM
I have them roll normally, and if it comes out very low, it is raised. it is based off of somthing I saw here earlier:
d4: 1 becomes 2
d6: 1 or 2 becomes 3
d8: 1, 2, or 3 becomes 4
d10: 1,2, 3, or 4 becomes 5
d12: 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 becomes 6

Eldariel
2009-01-09, 09:55 AM
I just give everyone average. There's enough randomness in the game; no need to have to pay for one poor roll for the rest of the game.

Darth Stabber
2009-01-09, 10:04 AM
I give a reroll for 1's (unlimited), once I offered this feat, Everyone but the wizard took it.

Real Toughness
Benefit: all of your hitdice are maxed

as much as i have issues with the dumbing down in 4e i like the fact that they took the die rolls out of players hp.

Llama231
2009-01-09, 10:07 AM
I give a reroll for 1's (unlimited), once I offered this feat, Everyone but the wizard took it.

Real Toughness
Benefit: all of your hitdice are maxed

as much as i have issues with the dumbing down in 4e i like the fact that they took the die rolls out of players hp.

This souds a little broken...:smallconfused:
I like it.:smalltongue:

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-09, 10:07 AM
I prefer to just take average HPs due to not wanting to risk getting a low amount overall.

Spiryt
2009-01-09, 10:11 AM
I give players a choice of either taking high-average HP (e.g. 4 on a d6) or rolling and counting any roll below low-average as the low-average (e.g. any result below 3 on a d6 counts as a 3.)

Statistically it works out fairly similar, and means the players still get the choice between randomness and predictability. Players like that.

- Saph

Very good idea! Although I would expand it by giving the high average only to d10 and higher (or possibly d8's as well) - lower roll take lower average or roll and count any bellow low average as lower average minus 1 ( 2 on d6) just to give fighters and paladin some love over lower HD's.

The Neoclassic
2009-01-09, 10:51 AM
I give players a choice of either taking high-average HP (e.g. 4 on a d6) or rolling and counting any roll below low-average as the low-average (e.g. any result below 3 on a d6 counts as a 3.)

Statistically it works out fairly similar, and means the players still get the choice between randomness and predictability. Players like that.

- Saph

Aye, this is what I always do as a DM and what I prefer as a player.

xPANCAKEx
2009-01-09, 10:57 AM
Max plus con bonus (or minus con penalty) at first level, roll all the rest, you're stuck with the result. Yep, sometimes that means the Wizard gets more than the Barbarian. Suck it up, it'll average out over 20 levels.

fully backed

im a gamer - not a munchkin. I work with what i have

bosssmiley
2009-01-09, 11:04 AM
"If you don't like the hp you've rolled, then re-roll them on the next smallest die."

d12 > d10 > d8 > d6 > d4 > d3

It staves off the 1 hp/lvl problem but also forces people to think about how bad that last roll really was. :smallwink:

Proven_Paradox
2009-01-09, 11:24 AM
I prefer averaging or some sort of static amount. In general, if a dice roll has a chance of leaving a character permanently screwed, I don't like it. You can say "it'll average out" all you like, and statistically that is true, but I've rolled three 1's on a d12 HD in a row before. Crap like that completely and permanently cripples a character, and there's no excuse for that.

Starsinger
2009-01-09, 11:28 AM
I just gave my players max HP, although another alternative that I saw, (somewhere, I think it was Arcana Evolved) was if you class HP was 1d4 you rolled 1d4. If it was 1d6 you rolled 1d4+2. If it was 1d8 you rolled 1d4+4. If it was 10 you rolled 1d4+6. And if it was 1d12 you rolled 1d4+8. That way the Barbarian would have higher HP than the Wizard, but two Barbarians could have different HP totals.

Artanis
2009-01-09, 11:48 AM
I figure the hp system is one of the least broken things about 3.5 once the law of large numbers starts to kick in. So I prefer a system that does exactly that: high average at even levels, low average at odd levels. This puts it as close to the exact average as it's possible to get, with the rounding being such that it (very slightly) increases the odds of getting to where a stiff breeze no longer instantly beats you to death. It's also a lot easier to start at higher levels than many (but not all) of the systems mentioned in this thread by taking max+1 per two levels, plus high average if at an even level (plus max for level 1 of course)

For example:
*Level 5 Wizard: 4 + 5 + 5 = 14 (= 4 + 3+2 + 3+2)
*Level 8 Barbarian: 12 + 13 + 13 + 13 + 7 = 58 (= 12 + 7+6 + 7+6 + 7+6 + 7)

Kurald Galain
2009-01-09, 11:50 AM
I either give average hit points (i.e. on 1d6, that'd 3.5 per level, which essentially means 3 for 2nd level, and 4 for 3rd), or if a player really wants, he can roll as normal but no whining about 1's.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-09, 11:54 AM
I prefer not. I generally play tanks, and I always get unlucky on hit dice. An average is fine too.

Muad'dib
2009-01-09, 12:07 PM
A very honest question for those against average HP: If "it will all average out in the end" then why not just take average now?

Vortling
2009-01-09, 12:11 PM
As a DM I simply give players max hp for their HD. I give the monsters max hp for their HD. It makes for longer fights even early in the game.

As a player I dislike rolling and take any non-roll option given to me.

Saph
2009-01-09, 12:11 PM
A very honest question for those against average HP: If "it will all average out in the end" then why not just take average now?

It's not about being "against average HP". It's about preference. Some players prefer a little randomness, some don't.

- Saph

Prometheus
2009-01-09, 12:14 PM
This guy! Trying to take the rolling out of D&D...
Haven't you guys gotten the whole point of D&D has nothing to do with mechanics is an excuse to roll all those different little dice?

Oh, MuaDib, I guess we like it to be average enough to be reasonable, but not average enough that we feel like there are different ways it can go.

(edit: addressed the wrong name - ninja crossfire)

Kurald Galain
2009-01-09, 12:46 PM
A very honest question for those against average HP: If "it will all average out in the end" then why not just take average now?

I know several people who believe that they consistently roll above average. While statistics will probably prove them false eventually, I'm sure we've all heard or seen players that, when rolling up a character, roll four scores of 16 or up, on plain old 3d6.

Tacoma
2009-01-09, 01:02 PM
I give the players a choice. They can self-train, which costs a nominal amount in materials and doesn't take any time, or they can get formal training for the new level which costs a bunch of money and one week. If they self-train they roll for HP and take whatever they roll. If they pay for training they get max HP. Everyone usually gets the pay training if they can afford it, since everyone's HP roll is important. While a Barbarian might have 20 CON his d12 is a big range, but the Wizard with d4 usually has no CON bonus or maybe +1, so again his roll makes a big difference.

On the subject of training, I also make them train for any new feats they learn. Just because you get a feat slot doesn't mean you automatically learn the feat. But the cost of learning a new feat every three levels just about evens out the fact that they don't need to pay to level up (just if they want to pay for the extra-special bonus HP training). Learning exotic and weird feats costs more because people who know it are less common.

Immutep
2009-01-09, 01:03 PM
Ok, First let me point out that our campaign is a high-stress environment, probably the most random encounters you could think of (four level 6's against 12 level 10 ogres for example). Our DM has gone for the aproach of the party are super-heroes and as such each level we roll three dice and count the highest for HP. We also got a big benefit when it came to stat roles (five dice to choose three for each Stat).
That said, we are starting a new campaign soon and this time we are just going for a standard role once and it sticks, which as the party's combat tank, i'm slightly worried about.

Simanos
2009-01-09, 01:24 PM
I just gave my players max HP, although another alternative that I saw, (somewhere, I think it was Arcana Evolved) was if you class HP was 1d4 you rolled 1d4. If it was 1d6 you rolled 1d4+2. If it was 1d8 you rolled 1d4+4. If it was 10 you rolled 1d4+6. And if it was 1d12 you rolled 1d4+8. That way the Barbarian would have higher HP than the Wizard, but two Barbarians could have different HP totals.
Wait?! My system already exists?!
Are you sure it's in Arcana Evolved?


It's not about being "against average HP". It's about preference. Some players prefer a little randomness, some don't.

- Saph
A little randomness is fine, a lot of randomness in such an important aspect of the game mechanics is not. My system still has a little randomness so you should like it more :smallcool::smalltongue:

Fax Celestis
2009-01-09, 01:32 PM
I give players a choice of either taking high-average HP (e.g. 4 on a d6) or rolling and counting any roll below low-average as the low-average (e.g. any result below 3 on a d6 counts as a 3.)

Statistically it works out fairly similar, and means the players still get the choice between randomness and predictability. Players like that.

- Saph

This is pretty much what I do, except I also add that you receive max HP at 1st level. It helps set a foundation for your HP total and helps differentiate between 1st level characters.

Simanos
2009-01-09, 01:39 PM
I just give everyone average. There's enough randomness in the game; no need to have to pay for one poor roll for the rest of the game.

Exactly. This is the reason I make this house-rule. It has just enough randomness to make people different (and provide rolling excitement), but avoid sulking warriors.


I rarely bother rolling for monsters (and if it's got 10+ HD, it's pointless anyway, because the result will be quite close to the average). PCs roll, traditionally. Whining is useless, because over even 10 levels, it will average out.

Your idea is fine, but you need to change up the numbers.

The averages for the defaults are: d4 2.5, d6 3.5, d8 4.5, d10 5.5, d12 6.5
The averages for yours are: d4 2.5, d4+2 4.5, d4+4 6.5, d4+6 8.5, d4+8 10.5.

So the difference keeps increasing. That's no good. (edit: Also, it is statistically hugely different, what are you on about? /edit) You need to go:

d3+1 3 (or d2+2 3.5), d4+2 4.5, d6+2 5.5, d8+2 6.5, d10+2 7.5

That way, the difference from the average stays the same.

I said "statistically it is not very different from above variants" not from the basic rule (you roll it, you got it). I realize my system gives bigger bonus to warrior types, but that's a balancing act because people always complain about casters (usually wizards) dominating. I also buff poor casters in some ways (housed magic system) so they don't complain about their d4 hitpoints.

My system has almost a mystical beauty about it, the d4 pyramid is a spiffy-looking die. Plus it's also very simple to roll and remember. When someone or something needs hit-dice rolled then reach for a d4 (or use computer dice :p ). It guarantees diversity without low end broken chars. It is statistically about the average of the max hitpoints per level and the usual variant (small rolls become half of max) for d10.

PS: d3+1 3 (or d2+2 3.5), d4+2 4.5, d6+2 5.5, d8+2 6.5, d10+2 7.5
BTW, your proposed system is biased towards smaller dice. You add +1 to the average of normally rolling a die. So a d6 averages 3.5 and a d4+2 is a 4.5. That's a 29% increase. But a d12 averages 6.5 while a d10+2 averages 7.5 and that's only a 15% increase.

RS14
2009-01-09, 01:39 PM
I've traditionally just rolled, although I'm not opposed to allowing average HP.

Here is an idea: the player chooses some n>0 and rolls n appropriately sized dice, and takes the average of those dice as hp for that level.

Sample rolls:

{table=head]n|hp, d4|hp, d12
1| 4| 2
2| 1| 4
3| 2| 9
4| 3| 6
10| 2 | 4
[/table]

Over many levels, it is advantageous to pick only n=1, but in the short term, it offers a more predictable roll.

Ellisande
2009-01-09, 01:42 PM
Since I haven't seen it listed here yet, in one campaign I played, we rolled two dice (of whatever size your class provided) and took the higher of the two. It worked well--nobody got hosed because of obscenely low HP, but it kept the excitement and variety of rolling for HP. I enjoyed it a lot.

That said, this:


"If you don't like the hp you've rolled, then re-roll them on the next smallest die."

d12 > d10 > d8 > d6 > d4 > d3

It staves off the 1 hp/lvl problem but also forces people to think about how bad that last roll really was. :smallwink:

also sounds like a great idea. I'd love to try it.

(bosssmiley: Was the second roll final, or could you keep rerolling down the chart until you got to the d3?)

Saph
2009-01-09, 02:52 PM
A little randomness is fine, a lot of randomness in such an important aspect of the game mechanics is not.

Funny how so many people seem to enjoy playing in a way that's not fine. :P

- Saph

Samurai Jill
2009-01-09, 02:56 PM
Ah, the argument from complacency.

SilverClawShift
2009-01-09, 03:20 PM
Ever since the CAMPAIGN OF HITPOINT HORROR my group has played with max hitpoints (for PCs, NPCs, and monsters too).

My group began roleplaying together originally, and learned pretty much all of it with each other. Well one game early on in our roleplaying careers, we were still playing 'hardcore' style, one roll for hitpoints and you grin and bear it regardless of the outcome. And for some reason, fate decided to utterly and completely smack us around the entire game, start to finish. By 8th level, our wizard had around 22 hitpoints. Which is close to right, but still low.
But our FIGHTER, our meatshield, had managed to utterly screw the pooch on his rolls. By the same level, he had like 35 hitpoints. Which is not okay. Our Rogue and Cleric fared better, but barely. Death lurked around every corner. Angry looking pigeons were enough to send us into hiding.

Our DM sat and thought, and thought, and thought some more, and came to the conclusion that maxing hitpoint rolls was fine if it happened for EVERYONE, that it would add some consistency to what he was throwing at us, and to what we selected. We opted for full hitpoints, and have never looked back.

Random NPC
2009-01-09, 03:29 PM
I prefer averaging or some sort of static amount. In general, if a dice roll has a chance of leaving a character permanently screwed, I don't like it. You can say "it'll average out" all you like, and statistically that is true, but I've rolled three 1's on a d12 HD in a row before. Crap like that completely and permanently cripples a character, and there's no excuse for that.you were only punished for your transgressions against the noble d12 God, Duodekron (Patron of Barbarians)

Perhaps you weren't using a Greataxe with that character, or maybe you weren't raging enough. Whatever the reasons, your punishment was fair.

Tacoma
2009-01-09, 04:25 PM
Sounds like someone would have a problem with my d12 gaming system ...

Project_Mayhem
2009-01-09, 07:05 PM
I give players a choice of either taking high-average HP (e.g. 4 on a d6) or rolling and counting any roll below low-average as the low-average (e.g. any result below 3 on a d6 counts as a 3.)

Statistically it works out fairly similar, and means the players still get the choice between randomness and predictability. Players like that.

- Saph

This is pretty much what I do, except I also add that you receive max HP at 1st level. It helps set a foundation for your HP total and helps differentiate between 1st level characters.

Yeah, I do pretty much exactly what Fax and Saph do.

Except it was my idea.

And I will be enforcing copyright

Thrud
2009-01-09, 07:13 PM
I give max for 1st level, and after that let 'em roll two dice and pick the better one. Not sure where I got the idea from, but I have pretty much always used it.

For about 30 years now. Yikes I feel old today.

:smallbiggrin:

Accersitus
2009-01-09, 07:16 PM
I have them roll normally, and if it comes out very low, it is raised. it is based off of somthing I saw here earlier:
d4: 1 becomes 2
d6: 1 or 2 becomes 3
d8: 1, 2, or 3 becomes 4
d10: 1,2, 3, or 4 becomes 5
d12: 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 becomes 6

In the group I play we use a similar system, but we like having many HP, and thus we allow unlimited rerolls instead of granting a static value on low rolls.
(reroll any result in the bottom third of the range of the dice, round down)

This gives the dice ranges:
d4 = 2-4
d6 = 3-6
d8 = 3-8
d10 = 4-10
d12 = 5-12

This gives the averages:
d4 = 3 (.5 over normal)
d6 = 4.5 (1.5 over normal)
d8 = 5.5 (1.0 over normal)
d10 = 7 (1.5 over normal)
d12 = 8.5 (2.0 over normal)
This favors d6 d10 and d12 classes. Since we use mostly PHB3.5 classes
+ a sprinkle home brew, it makes the rogue and bard a bit more hardy in
close combat, while giving the fighter and paladin a HP advantage against the divine casters who are powerful enough as it is. In addition the barbarian gets the best bonus, and the d12 deserves something special since it's not used all that much. The only classes to suffer are the monk and dual wield ranger who gain one of the lowest bonuses while still being most comfortable up close and personal.

Assassin89
2009-01-09, 07:17 PM
Just one roll. No more because that would remove part of the challenge presented by a limit.

Limos
2009-01-09, 07:23 PM
I once played a Barbarian with a DM who forced us to roll HP and keep whatever we got.

I rolled a 1, three levels in a row.

I was the flimsiest barbarian ever alive. I didn't dare to close for melee combat since I was so wimpy. He kept telling me that it would even out eventually, but when you are a level three barbarian with a tiny tiny hitpoint pool it makes you somewhat useless.

FMArthur
2009-01-09, 07:25 PM
Here's my method: Max at first level, then every level after that you get average, alternating between rounding up and down. So for even-numbered levels, you round the average up and for odd-numbered levels, you round the average down. A d6 HD would then go like this: 6, 4, 3, 4, 3... They also have the option of rolling for it, and the option is given at every level.

This has the unexpected effect of players who know the odds choosing to roll at odd-numbered levels and take average at evens. Oddly enough, they've ended up slightly behind average. :smallamused:

RS14
2009-01-09, 11:19 PM
He kept telling me that it would even out eventually...

Sort of. With those rolls, you're average expected hp at any future level will be 16.5 below average for your con. Your rolls aren't going to get magically better.
On the other hand, that's going to be equal to fewer blows as you level up. So while you might presently be at a e.g. 3-blow disadvantage from a typical foe, in the future you're most likely just at a 1-blow disadvantage, which is more manageable. But no, you're basically screwed with such rolls. See also, the Gambler's Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy).

Thinking about this more, I'll probably not use simple rolling again.

Dixieboy
2009-01-09, 11:22 PM
I rarely bother rolling for monsters (and if it's got 10+ HD, it's pointless anyway, because the result will be quite close to the average). PCs roll, traditionally. Whining is useless, because over even 10 levels, it will average out.

Once got 3/2 on 5 levels in a row as a cleric >>

I was allowed to take average instead

Curmudgeon
2009-01-09, 11:34 PM
Don't roll for anything involving character development. Don't roll for stats; use some specific point buy system. Don't roll for hit points; use 1/2 point above the average on each die.

Keep the randomness restricted to the actual playing of the game.

Lappy9000
2009-01-09, 11:36 PM
I let everyone make 1 reroll. But they have to keep that second reroll.

Townopolis
2009-01-09, 11:42 PM
Max HP every level, monsters and PCs.

I have had far too many experiences getting thoroughly screwed by rolling for permanent character attributes that I snarl at any DM who expects me to roll for HP, growl at any DM who allows rolling for HP, and absolutely refuse to play with any DM who isn't running point-buy for stats.

As a DM, I keep dice out of permanent character attributes.

Shpadoinkle
2009-01-10, 12:35 AM
I say if you roll under 1/3 of the max possible, just reroll until you get something better. So d4s and d6s reroll 1s, d8s reroll 1s and 2s, d10s and d12s reroll anything under 4.

Seatbelt
2009-01-10, 01:32 AM
We mix it up depending on DM fiat pretty much. Some games it was 1's and 2's dont count on the first roll. Which benefits the wizard. But not in the current game we're playing. I've been rolling so low, I died, got raised and rolled lower HP than before I died. Frustrating. In this campaign the sorcerer has more HP than me. By like 20. I'm the front-line melee cleric. My only hope is to kill people before they kill me.

In the game I'm running 1s dont count. Ever. For the barbarian, 2s dont count, ever. Otherwise they have to accept it.

bosssmiley
2009-01-10, 06:41 AM
(bosssmiley: Was the second roll final, or could you keep re-rolling down the chart until you got to the d3?)

I let people keep re-rolling until they're happy with the number that comes up. The caveat being that the maximum possible is decreasing with each re-roll.

I tend to follow Tsotha-Lanti's suggestion when creating high-level PCs or threats though. Generally that works out as 1HD of max hp + average hp for blocks of 10HD + roll the remainder (+ Con & Imp./Unholy Toughness modifiers to each die, of course). Who wants all the work of totting up twelvety-seven HD per monster when you can just abstract it and top off with a bit of random variation?

Samakain
2009-01-10, 06:55 AM
I give players a choice of either taking high-average HP (e.g. 4 on a d6) or rolling and counting any roll below low-average as the low-average (e.g. any result below 3 on a d6 counts as a 3.)

- Saph

I do the exact same thing, well the second option anyway.

Simanos
2009-01-10, 07:22 AM
I've been rolling so low, I died, got raised and rolled lower HP than before I died.

What do you mean? Do you re-roll all hit dice after ressurection? Or do oyu mean just for the level lost when you regained it eventually?

PS: So does Arcana Evolved have my system or not? Can someone confirm?

Maroon
2009-01-10, 08:32 AM
Our group rerolls all hit dice at level up, keeping either the old total or the new roll, whichever is higher. It helps the people who rolled unlucky last time, while reining in the lucky ones who would otherwise get too far ahead of the supposed average.

I'm personally thinking about rerolling all hit dice like this every day; to me, hit points represent stamina, morale, skill, and luck, and whatever else helps a character survive, and only at 0 hit points is a character fatally run through/knocked out. It wouldn't make sense to have a fixed maximum on something as esoteric as that, so players just reroll every time they rest. 'Healing' magic (which would be more like divine boons in this system) can fill up a character up to the maximum he could have rolled otherwise.

Morandir Nailo
2009-01-10, 10:54 PM
In the past I had players roll, with anything below the average counting as the average (so 1 or 2 on a d6 is a 3, etc). If I go back to running D&D in the future, it'll be a straight roll, take what you get. Though I do think the idea of rolling all HD at each new level and keeping the highest total is kinda cool.

Mor

Squider
2009-01-10, 11:18 PM
My group plays with fairly buffed HP. At first level you get max+con bonus+con score, then at later levels it's max+con bonus. It makes the low levels more fun, and the higher levels are about the same anyway. And the DM gives everyone the same rules, so the fights last longer and it isn't slanted too far in the PC's favor.

Rei_Jin
2009-01-10, 11:31 PM
In our homegames, we've been using the following rules for hitpoints


First level is maximised
Every level thereafter, you roll 1 + Con Mod hitdie, and take the highest result. No re-rolls.
You die at -Con, not -10. Toughness increases this by 3, and adds 3 hitpoints to your normal total as well.
There is no Improved Toughness


Seems to work pretty well.

koldstare
2009-01-10, 11:36 PM
I played a 1st level game with a DM who thought it was more "realistic" to have players roll ALL HP including 1st level. I played a wizard who was lucky enough to roll a 4 (with a +1 from my con) for 5 HP who fought alongside a barbarian who rolled a 2 (with +2 from con) for a grand total of 4 HP. We also had a cleric and a monk with HP in the 5ish range. We all died (except the monk) by our third! encounter on the first day.

Simanos
2009-01-12, 01:08 PM
Our group rerolls all hit dice at level up, keeping either the old total or the new roll, whichever is higher. It helps the people who rolled unlucky last time, while reining in the lucky ones who would otherwise get too far ahead of the supposed average.
It's funny that this was an actual example used in a very old (15 years ago) Dragon magazine I have.
A newbie player (and group) asked the Sage Advice if they should roll all hit-dice at level-up (like his group did). He added that it seemed illogical because that would mean you could actually lose hitpoints by leveling up sometimes.
The Sage replied by first offering an admonition to the reader not to be hard or laugh at this. We were all newbies at some point. He added that of course that was a ridiculous way to do it. Only 1 hit die is rolled at level-up.
As someone already said in this thread, there's already randomness in the combat mechanics and stuff. There's no need to add more randomness to the player stats to create tension. The tension and drama is already there, we just need balance now.

PS: So can anyone please check if my system actually exists in any book or mag? Someone said Arcana Evolved, can anyone check that please?

Tacoma
2009-01-12, 01:26 PM
NWN2 just gave the maximum of the roll. After playing that for a while I don't see a problem with it. It also saves the DM the recordkeeping of listing the HP of all the goblins in the encounter - I recall some examples of "4,4,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1" from years and years ago in AD&D modules.

Plus once I rolled the HP for a somewhat nasty monster of 18 HD and ended up with 30 HP. After that I decided to just give monsters maximum HP which at the time counted toward their XP value.

Simanos
2009-01-14, 02:54 PM
At times like this I wonder why I seem to have access to almost every book except Arcana Evolved. None of my friends has it. Is it that bad?

Baron Corm
2009-01-14, 06:43 PM
Theoretical: Give static hit points per level according to hit die with wide variation.

Mine:

d4: 1 (20 at level 20. You will die if you get breathed on. Keep those magical defenses ready.)
d6: 4 (80 at level 20. You can take a few hits, but only a few. Hope you have some form of hiding or mobility.)
d8: 7 (140 at level 20. Keep an eye on your HP, but don't worry too much.)
d10: 10 (200 at level 20. With a decent Constitution, you can have extreme confidence.)
d12: 13 (260 at level 20. Wade nearly fearlessly into battle.)

Regular (Average, Max at First Level):

d4: 2.5 (52 at level 20. You will die to any concentrated attack, but can survive a few scratches.)
d6: 3.5 (73 at level 20. The scratches you take can be a bit bigger.)
d8: 4.5 (94 at level 20. Still not able to take many hits unless you invest a good deal in Constitution.)
d10: 5.5 (115 at level 20. Can last a round or so longer than d8 in combat.)
d12: 6.5 (136 at level 20. You could go without investing in Constitution, but you wouldn't be able to last for too long. With a strong investment you could possibly last a few combats.)

Using the basic HDs makes an average of 1 point of difference. With 3 points, there's actually a huge difference between the rogue and the fighter. Giving max hit points gives values similar to mine, except the d4, d6, and d12 are less extreme. I like mine because it makes each hit die value conform to my image of how well the associated classes can take hits. I'm imagining a wizard, rogue, ranger/monk, fighter, and barbarian with those descriptions, and liking what I see.

Dienekes
2009-01-14, 07:45 PM
What I do/shamelessly stole from something I read on the internet once.

Max level 1

every other level you role, but if you don't like the role you can choose to role again but at a -1 penalty.

Example let's say you're a barbarian, role a 3, you think that is a terrible role so you ask to re-roll you get a 2 -1 it's a 1, dang still terrible so you take a new roll and get a 7 -2 you get 5, thinking that your max you can ever get is 9 now you realize 7 is good and stop there.

Yeah, it's a little easy on the players but it stops their complaining (for the most part) and the players seem to think it's pretty fair.

Ninetail
2009-01-14, 09:12 PM
I used the same system for everything from 1e and OD&D through 3.5e:

Characters all get max hp at first level.

After that, the player can choose: average hp (rounding up), or a roll. If he rolls, he takes whatever he gets.

There was always someone who wanted to roll, and inevitably that person would roll a 1 some time before level 5. The worst case was a barbarian, of all things, who proceeded to roll a 1 four times in a row. And he still chose to roll at level 6.

I rather like the 4e approach.

LibraryOgre
2009-01-14, 09:20 PM
Our 3.5 group used 3/4 maximum HP.

d12: 8
d10: 7 one level, 8 the next
d8: 6
d6: 4 on level, 5 the next
d4: 3

Simanos
2009-01-15, 05:33 AM
...
In other words you hate mages, right? :smalltongue:


Our 3.5 group used 3/4 maximum HP.

d12: 8
d10: 7 one level, 8 the next
d8: 6
d6: 4 on level, 5 the next
d4: 3
Don't you mean:
d12: 9
? :smallcool:

Kaiyanwang
2009-01-15, 05:46 AM
My first DM (Basic D&D - Italian Red Box, not sure the related american version) was merciless in everything, but he allowed to reroll HD.

So I do that way with my players now. Max HD first level, allowed reroll if don't like it.

Even if I think average as in DM guide could be better. I will try one day.

Altima
2009-01-15, 05:59 AM
Well, I usually give my players a choice...

They either suck it up and play normally (max on 1st, roll the rest)

-or-

They get maximum HP every level. And all spells automatically get Maximized metamagic applied. Applying empowered does normally (1.5xthe max, so fireballs do 90 damage). Applying maximized again doubles the damage. Adding empowered on to that...well, you get the idea.

Guess which one they chose?

On the other hand, they all considered it a great improvement over my previous policy--killing them all before they made level 2, thus negating the need for hit point dice rolls.

But I balance out my sadism by letting mages go d6 instead of d4.

Drascin
2009-01-15, 08:11 AM
I am generall very lenient with my players. Particularly low rolls will be allowed to be rerolled, no problem. Given the size of the stuff I throw at them, they're going to need every single HP they can get, anyway :smallwink:

Angew
2009-01-15, 08:41 AM
I give my players this choice: choose any number of lowest results, you can re-roll these (unlimited number of times). However, you must also re-roll the same number of highest results. (This choice is taken afresh each level).

Example: if you are to roll a d10, you can choose to discard 1s and 2s, but you also have to discard 10s and 9s.

So, in effect, the players have a choice of how random/how average they want their rolls. They like it.

Simanos
2009-01-15, 02:41 PM
Too much work.
I prefer my system.
Best of both worlds (random and solid)
Still can't find Arcana Evolved :smallfrown:

LibraryOgre
2009-01-15, 02:43 PM
Don't you mean:
d12: 9
? :smallcool:

*waves hand* This is not the math you're looking for.

:smallwink:

Yeah, I messed that up.

Hal
2009-01-15, 03:33 PM
If I ever end up DMing a 3.5 game again, it's going to be max HP from whatever your HD is. I've never enjoyed the game, as a DM or as a player, when you can be killed by an irate house cat.

In one game I played that didn't get too far, I had a 4th level paladin with something like 24HP. I didn't exactly feel heroic.

Bassikpoet
2009-01-15, 07:08 PM
Both the player and the DM roll. The DM keeps his/her roll hidden and the player gets to choose whether they want to keep their roll or the hidden DM roll.

d13
2009-01-15, 07:52 PM
First level MAX (plus any relevant modifiers)

Next levels rolled... They roll, I roll for each of them. Keep the higher roll (mine or theirs), add any relevant modifiers.

Average for monsters and NPCs...


Gone well, so far.

Thurbane
2009-01-15, 08:34 PM
As a player (and if the DM allows it) I always take average (max HP at 1st level, then alternating hi/lo at even/odd levels)...

As a DM, I usually roll randomly for monsters and NPCs, so that there is more variety in the party's enounters...

Twilight Jack
2009-01-16, 03:42 PM
The choice I offer is very basic: would you like the average, or would you like to roll and take your chances? This choice is repeated every time the character levels up.

I actually keep track of the half-points, so that characters who take the average some levels and roll when they're feeling saucy aren't losing out.