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View Full Version : Homebrew Fluff Dilemma, Assistance please?



The Glyphstone
2009-01-09, 11:03 AM
I'm currently hard at work on my homebrew campaign setting, but I've run into a bit of a plot hole, so to speak, with the way I've set up magic functioning.

For those not inclined to trawl through the entire thread, the way Vancian magic is described as working in this world is effectively a cross between Truenaming and the Words of Creation. Anything and everything has a Word or Words to describe it, and knowing those Words allows you to temporarily exact a change on what you've named. There are three main sources for magical knowledge: wizards learn Words by active research and exploration, clerics and druids receive their Words in exchange for devotion and service from the closest thing this setting has to gods, while sorcerers seal a blood pact with a non-deific but still very powerful creature (an outsider, fey, or dragon) in exchange for a sampling of that creature's own power and knowledge.

My problem, now, is explaining why multiclass casters wouldn't just be able to pool their spell slots (I.e., a Wizard 1/Sorcerer 1 being able to cast any spell in their spellbook 5 times/day). I already know I won't be using a spellpoint system, because that treads on the feet of the psion (in this setting, "casters" who are tapped into the earth's inherent magical energies). I briefly considered banning multiclassing between wizard/cleric/druid/sorcerer altogether - fluff justified that the patrons teaching a cleric, druid, or sorcerer would be upset if the character was 'cheating' on them, but decided that it wasn't worth it. Divine energy isn't really a solution, because the idea is that the Few and Fallen (gods) don't actually give any power to mortals, only knowledge of the Words, in exchange for the life energy that they're addicted to and dependent on.

The full thread is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98047), posts #4 and #7 contain the relevant details on magic. Read the rest of the thread if you like, and comment if you can, but for now, I need advice and solutions to my problem...

BRC
2009-01-09, 11:19 AM
Simple, the two operating systems are incompatable.


Essentially, mortals and powerful beings use different Words. When a Pact is made between a Sorc/Druid/Cleric and the God/Powerful Being gives them their power, whats essentially happening is the powerful being is "Investing" power into the Caster.

Let's say Bob the Sorceror makes a blood pact with a Dragon, essentially what the Dragon does is put some of his power into Bob. However, technically, that's not Bob's power, that's the Dragons, and the Dragon only gave Bob a few ways to release it. If Bob Multiclasses to wizard, what he's doing is building up his own power with which to use the words. However, even though he can release his own power however he prepares it, he can only tap into the power the Dragon gave him in a few ways. The two Power Supply's are seperate, and are released in different ways.

tsuuga
2009-01-09, 11:23 AM
All three pacts involve giving a part of oneself to another entity - so perhaps that entity gives the sorcerer power by scribing the Words on that part of the sorcerer? The character can't read and doesn't know the Words, but they are a part of him.

The Glyphstone
2009-01-09, 12:01 PM
All three pacts involve giving a part of oneself to another entity - so perhaps that entity gives the sorcerer power by scribing the Words on that part of the sorcerer? The character can't read and doesn't know the Words, but they are a part of him.

Interesting - this would certainly work with the Fey, and possibly the Dragons. A Felpact is more of a classical Faustian bargain though, since their payment doesn't come due until after death - how would this fit for them?

BRC
2009-01-09, 12:08 PM
Demons don't want to give their Pactees knowledge of how their power works, lest they turn that power against the demon. To use a metahpor, they give the sorceror a gun and some ammo, and they tell them how to aim and pull the trigger, but they don't tell them how the gun works, lest they build a bigger gun and turn it against them.

RukiTanuki
2009-01-09, 12:12 PM
Maybe the Words are filtered through Language (source of power) and Dialect (person using them). Through your Words, you are directing powerful forces to channel your will; it seems natural that you are very specific in stating your intentions. Since Wizardry may be the equivalent of tugging on a string, and Sorcery is the equivalent of giving the right point a strong push, the same words don't necessary apply.

sonofzeal
2009-01-09, 12:42 PM
Honestly, I don't think there's a major issue with pooling spellslots, as long as you don't allow Mystic Theurge type dual progression. That solves the problem nicely. :smalltongue:

As a side note - how do you handle Warlocks, who are almost explicitly on that system already and produce very different results?

Fax Celestis
2009-01-09, 01:22 PM
Interesting - this would certainly work with the Fey, and possibly the Dragons. A Felpact is more of a classical Faustian bargain though, since their payment doesn't come due until after death - how would this fit for them?

When a sorceror dies, they become part of the energy behind the Words--the more powerful even become Words themselves. Perhaps the word for "fireball" didn't exist until Pyromancer the Magnificent died his final death.

Tacoma
2009-01-09, 01:31 PM
I think the incompatible system thing would work. The Words of Power are simply different.

Think of it like electricity. There are plenty of ways to produce electricity. Many of them seem to be based on transfers of energy from a "cold" state to a "hot" state, which causes motion in the medium and pushes on object laced with magnets and coils of wire. Example: you burn coal to heat water in a boiler, which turns to steam and pushes through a turbine. The turbine rotates and generates an electromagnetic field that flows through the wires leading away and into our computers where it dances merrily along and gives us all blue tans.

Anyway, you can think of Wizards as a nuclear reactor, Clerics as a solar array, Druids as a hydro or tidal generator, Sorcerers as a burned-fuel steam generator, Bards as a windmill. Though the results may be the same and the technologies build upon each other, they are different enough that they're not completely interchangeable. Just because you can turn sunlight into electricity doesn't mean you can harness nuclear energy.

Well this was all very long and pointless. But I wrote it all so I'm not going back now!

Second thought: if your world is based on immutable laws, perhaps magic represents loopholes. Each class works its own separate loophole and the class level represents how good you are at that loophole. But just because you have great knowledge of one, the others might still be complete mysteries to you.

The Glyphstone
2009-01-09, 01:34 PM
As a side note - how do you handle Warlocks, who are almost explicitly on that system already and produce very different results?

That's actually mentioned in the section I wrote on Warlocks - they have completely different fluff. In this setting, people can spontaneously develop a connection to the world's inherent magic via the leyline network. If they manage to control their power and master it, they become mentalists/psions. If they fail to achieve that level of control or just ignore it until it breaks loose on its own, they end up as warlocks. The writeup describes it as the difference between a release valve and a leaky pipe, and that's pretty accurate.



It seems "incompatible systems" is a pretty common suggestion, so it might be an indication that I'm overthinking this, and in danger of treading on Our Magic Is Different. I've already got prededence for the "differing types of Words" in the Wizard writeup - there are a practically infinite number of words(as if every adjective in existence had a separate tense for every noun it could describe), so it's not out of the blue either.