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Immutep
2009-01-09, 01:07 PM
Ok, in one of the campaigns i'm involved with, we are close to obtaining Epic Level, Now I'm a multiclass Barbarian/Bard (it works better than you'd think!) but as i've only got six ranks of Bard i'm a little bit worried about the wording of the rules for epic level. It states that you don't gain any further spells known or spell per day beyond 20th level.

Please tell me that's Class level not ECL!

Keld Denar
2009-01-09, 01:13 PM
Correct. You continue to gain Bard spells until you hit Bard20.

Note, you don't gain the bonus epic feats for being an epic level character until either your Bard or Barbarian levels reach 21, or one of your PrCs passes its maximum level, if you have any. You still get your normal feats every 3rd level though, IIRC.

So, a Bard15/Barbarian15 would be ECL 30, and still cast as a 15th level Bard, for example.

Tacoma
2009-01-09, 01:22 PM
From what I remember from the Epic Handbook:

Your character features, such as saves, attack bonus, feats every 3rd level, and stat increases every fourth level are dependent on character level after 20th.

Your class abilities, spells, etc. found under each class are dependent on your class level in that class.

So let's say you're BBN16 / BRD4. Char level 20. You cast spells as a bard level 4.

You level up to 21. You go to BBN16/BRD5. You gain new abilities as a Bard level 5, meaning more spells per day and spells known and caster level. You gain skill pts as a Bard.

But your 21st level feat is an epic one, you gain attack bonus and saves under the consolidated Epic Levels chart. You don't improve in BAB anymore, but you get an untyped attack roll bonus based on your epic level. This just prevents you from qualifying for prestige classes and feats that you didn't qualify for at 20th, and limiting your iterative attacks.

Once you hit 20th class level as a Bard you stop improving in spellcasting because the bard chart doesn't extend any farther.

Fredthefighter
2009-01-09, 01:27 PM
That is correct.
The advantage of being level 21+ however is the cumulative bonuses to BAB and Base Saves (Total of +30 BAB and +25 Base Saves), of course, this means that if you have racial HD, e.g 2 Racial HD and no LA, then you would only be Level 18 before your Base Attack Bonus and Base Saves stop increasing. In return you may have some nice racial abilities. This can be really bad for multiclassed spellcasters as it means they'll have quite a few less spells than pure spellcaster characters (Level 10 Wizard/10 Ranger versus Level 20 Wizard). This doesn't really affect Spellcasters with only 1 level in another class (Level 19 Wizard/Level 1 Ranger), but it can be a problem for some (e.g Level 15 Druid/Level 5 Ranger).