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View Full Version : Couple of quick questions about Reincarnate



ShadowFighter15
2009-01-10, 01:30 AM
Keep in mind that I'm new to D&D, so if these questions have obvious answers, don't be surprised.

1) Precisely what constitutes a "death effect", spells like Finger of Death?

2) Aside from the potential (and looking at the table, very likely) racial change, are there any other physical changes, or is that up to the DM? For instance, if the character I have as an avatar is killed, reincarnated and came back as a gnome, would he look like a gnomish version of his original form or would he look very different?

Prometheus
2009-01-10, 01:45 AM
1) Death effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks) is exactly the kind of thing that you mentioned - someone who was killed by a death effect would have been killed by it no matter how many hit points they had and no matter what their ability scores were.
2)Really it is up to the DM. "Realistically" the new body would be mostly independent of the old one, but for the sake of the DM's narrative style it can either look very similar or very different. Keep in mind that the table is for humanoids only, so apparently form does have some effect - even if it is just a general one. If it were me, I would rule that everything is different except for one characteristic feature (the voice, eyes, hair color, mannerisms, habits, etc)

The Neoclassic
2009-01-10, 01:46 AM
Ninja'd!

1) Yeah, pretty much from my understanding. If it is a "Make a save or die" spell, it is a death effect. If you just happen to get hit with a fireball at the wrong time, for example, that is not (even though it has the same effect of you ending up at -10 hp).

2) I would say that is up to the DM. Heck, I'm not even sure how I'd do that. Both options have potential and rationale...

ShadowFighter15
2009-01-10, 02:15 AM
Thanks for that, I had a feeling it was "fort save or die" spells, but wasn't sure (all of my D&D experience is from NWN2 where such spells don't actually kill the character, just knock them unconscious. Well, they do in Storm of Zehir, but it doesn't stop a Raise Dead spell from working).

The second question was because of a random idea I had a while ago, when there was another thread here about reincarnation, where the person might be lucky enough to come back as the same species, but end up with their gender swapped ala Ranma Saotome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranma_Saotome), though without the easy way back to normal. I imagine that might be a good exercise in role-playing for the player of the affected character. Hell, if they're a bluff-focussed character it could open up a whole slew of new ways to complete quests.

Zeful
2009-01-10, 02:30 AM
The second question was because of a random idea I had a while ago, when there was another thread here about reincarnation, where the person might be lucky enough to come back as the same species, but end up with their gender swapped ala Ranma Saotome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranma_Saotome), though without the easy way back to normal. I imagine that might be a good exercise in role-playing for the player of the affected character. Hell, if they're a bluff-focussed character it could open up a whole slew of new ways to complete quests.

It's a good concept, I've thought of doing something similar with a Sorcerer character and Alter Self, though it would be more Tedd Verres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_El_Goonish_Shive#Tedd) rather than what you propose. Also if you were to play such a character, I would recommend against playing something resembling Ranma's macho personality, because someone who understands the character may very well throw you in the same situation he was in. I know I would be tempted to.

ShadowFighter15
2009-01-10, 02:40 AM
I'd never be able to RP a Ranma-style personality; my characters in a lot of stuff I do (not just D&D, but in short stories I (try to) write) are more the laid back snarker. After my last post, namely the part where I mentioned a bluff-focussed character, I remembered an idea I had a while ago for why a party might want to hang onto something like a Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity. Grifting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grifting).

Accersitus
2009-01-11, 01:12 AM
Hmmm, I just got an idea for a group of druids who live forever by killing each other before old age kills them. Since the spell creates a new
Young Adult body, this would work.

Zeful
2009-01-11, 01:46 AM
Hmmm, I just got an idea for a group of druids who live forever by killing each other before old age kills them. Since the spell creates a new
Young Adult body, this would work.

Marut death squads make that not fun.

Should you succeed despite that, Zelkhuts join the fun. You are denying justice after all.

ShadowFighter15
2009-01-11, 01:57 AM
Ah, but if they get away with it for long enough; they might be powerful enough to fight off (or at least hide from) such beings.

monty
2009-01-11, 01:57 AM
Marut death squads make that not fun.

Should you succeed despite that, Zelkhuts join the fun. You are denying justice after all.

Pfft. It's a bunch of druids. What do they care? Besides, killing Inevitables will provide XP to fund the level loss from being reincarnated over and over.

Eldariel
2009-01-11, 01:58 AM
Marut death squads make that not fun.

Should you succeed despite that, Zelkhuts join the fun. You are denying justice after all.

Inevitables are really annoying 'cause they just keep coming. Eventually, when you grow tired of pwning the noobs, you'll want to smash Mechanus which in turn breaks the multiverse. So the two possible consequences of getting targeted by Inevitables are character death or the end of reality. I wonder how things are still working...maybe those things don't exist after all.

Zeful
2009-01-11, 02:04 AM
Pfft. It's a bunch of druids. What do they care? Besides, killing Inevitables will provide XP to fund the level loss from being reincarnated over and over.

What's fun is due to Machanus' perfectly logical view of everything, they will be steadily advancing them so that the force is always level appropriate. Even beyond Epic levels.

ShadowFighter15
2009-01-11, 02:05 AM
I think by the time you're bored with turning inevitables into scrap metal you'd be bored of existence as well. Of course, that could be why they'd attack Mechanus. Though I wonder what a group of such druids would do if they came back in a form they didn't like (for whatever reason)

Jake (newly reincarnated): Oh bloody hells; goblin again. TED!
Ted (doing something a fair way away): WHAT?
Jake: BREAK OUT THE DAGGERS; I GOT STUCK AS A GOBLIN AGAIN!
Ted: OH HELLS; GOBLIN BLOOD'S A REAL B**** TO GET OUT OF THESE ROBES!

Heliomance
2009-01-11, 05:27 AM
What's fun is due to Machanus' perfectly logical view of everything, they will be steadily advancing them so that the force is always level appropriate. Even beyond Epic levels.

That doesn't make sense. Mechanus has a perfectly logical view of everything, meaning they will go "That didn't work. More force required."
If one inevitable fails, send two. If two inevitables fail, send four. If four inevitables fail, send eight. They are, after all, supposed to be inevitable.

Zeful
2009-01-11, 05:39 AM
That doesn't make sense. Mechanus has a perfectly logical view of everything, meaning they will go "That didn't work. More force required."
If one inevitable fails, send two. If two inevitables fail, send four. If four inevitables fail, send eight. They are, after all, supposed to be inevitable.

Point, but "more force" is a pretty open statement, it could be a simple advancement, or increased numbers. Either way they still have to find you, again, which can net you a couple months should you need it.

KillianHawkeye
2009-01-11, 06:07 PM
Don't Inevitables have a thing that lets them find the person they've been sent to punish?

@Heliomance: Bonus points for giving me the image of an exponentially increasing army of Inevitables chasing down a bunch of Druids. :smallamused:

chiasaur11
2009-01-11, 06:30 PM
Don't Inevitables have a thing that lets them find the person they've been sent to punish?

@Heliomance: Bonus points for giving me the image of an exponentially increasing army of Inevitables chasing down a bunch of Druids. :smallamused:

To the tune of the Benny Hill music, one presumes?

Assassin89
2009-01-11, 06:58 PM
To the tune of the Benny Hill music, one presumes?

You mean Yakkity Sax. The main problem with the group is the 1000 gp needed for each spell used, not to mention the 10 minute casting time, which would give the inevitables time to strike.

Talanic
2009-01-11, 07:44 PM
Plus, regarding the 'immortal' druids, why would nature want them to live forever either? Though I don't really condone making divine casaters fall for arbitrary reasons, the cycle of life and death is a huge part of nature; thwarting it for personal reasons might be a good reason to strip them of their casting ability.

Flickerdart
2009-01-11, 07:54 PM
LN druids would presumably get a bit more leniency from Mechanus, and can justify their eternal life by actually doing things to advance the cause of nature. Like tending to groves and stuff.

monty
2009-01-12, 11:15 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to get Epic Spellcasting and make yourself immortal that way? Be pretty easy to solve the problem of those pesky Inevitables, too.

Douglas
2009-01-12, 11:21 AM
1) Yeah, pretty much from my understanding. If it is a "Make a save or die" spell, it is a death effect. If you just happen to get hit with a fireball at the wrong time, for example, that is not (even though it has the same effect of you ending up at -10 hp).
Close, but not quite. The save-or-die mechanic by itself is not enough to qualify something as a death effect. The effect must either have the [death] descriptor (like Finger of Death (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fingerOfDeath.htm) and Slay Living (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm)) or state in its description that it is a death effect (like the Death domain granted power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#deathDomain)). For examples of save-or-die that are not death effects, see Phantasmal Killer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantasmalKiller.htm) and Implosion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm).