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Ironlich
2009-01-10, 03:15 PM
So, Its been a long damn while since I last played roleplaying games, and that's not because I don't want to, or because no one else want to, but because no on seems to be interested in running them. Therefore, I have decided to try run a few games of my own. So I'm gonna buy my first roleplaying rulebook, but the question is, which will it be? I'd like something that's easy to customise and make own settings with, and not overly complicated. Any ideas, folks?

KKL
2009-01-10, 03:22 PM
Try something rules light? Like MaidRPG?

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-10, 03:23 PM
I remember being told that GURPs is good for customization, but I don;t have any personal experience with it, so I can;t comment on how easy to use it is.

AgentPaper
2009-01-10, 03:28 PM
I'll go ahead and recommend Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition. Much easier on the person running it than with, for example, DnD 3.5. If you get an adventure module, that's even less work, and the game almost runs itself. In fact, I think there are rules for playing without a DM in the DM's guide itself, though I'm not 100% sure. At any rate, the DM's guide goes over a few ways that you can run the game, and having a permanent DM is only one of them.

KKL
2009-01-10, 03:28 PM
I remember being told that GURPs is good for customization, but I don;t have any personal experience with it, so I can;t comment on how easy to use it is.

GURPs is insanity.

Ironlich
2009-01-10, 03:28 PM
Just a note; when I say "not overly complicated" I don't mean "light", just "not heavy"

Iku Rex
2009-01-10, 03:41 PM
What kind of settings did you have in mind?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-01-10, 03:42 PM
Just a note; when I say "not overly complicated" I don't mean "light", just "not heavy"

Yeah, 4th Edition D&D is the right choice.

It has a clean and consistent set of rules (well, check the Errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/updates) for Stealth) and little of the fluff has any impact on the mechanics - making it easy to customize.

It also has been recently released, so most places should stock at least the Core books.

Morty
2009-01-10, 04:02 PM
There's also 3.5 edition D&D as the alternative to 4th edition. It's a bit more complicated, although not overly so, but allows more customization and can cater to a lot of settings.

Tyrmatt
2009-01-10, 04:27 PM
3.5 is a fine starting point for people experienced with game experience, 4th edition for those looking for a simplistic approach that can easily be made more complex and GURPS is great for a simple rule system that can be dropped on top of any setting you please.
As of this moment I'm browbeating my friends into playing the first set of published adventures for 4th edition as none of them have played D&D before, but there are ex-Warhammerites and avid RPGers in there.

cloneof
2009-01-10, 05:57 PM
Indeed, I myself started my RPG journey in Star Wreck RPG D&D 3.5.
As a Finn I stayed long and hard, and after four days of reading the books, I ran my first session as a DM.

AslanCross
2009-01-10, 05:59 PM
I found that 3.5 was an easy enough a starting point for me. (my only prior exposure to D&D was in CRPGs such as Baldur's Gate II; I got into D&D about the same time I started playing Neverwinter Nights 2) Takes a while to get every nuance of the rules in--4E might be better in this regard--but I like the amount of customization available in 3.5.

Grail
2009-01-10, 06:21 PM
if you're having a lot of difficulty getting a game because of lack of interest, why not try using a free system first to gauge interest before spending $$ (unless you're like me and want to own them all).

To get people into DnD, use the SRD and if you really want to simplify it, you can use Microlite20 (http://wiki.greywulf.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Macropedia/Microlite20).

True20 (http://www.True20.com) is a good and pretty easy system, is based on 3.5 d20 and can be used for any game setting, it is the GURPS of d20.

I don't mind GURPS, but have found that it can be a bit intimidating to new players. 4e GURPS may be different, I haven't played that one.

the Palladium game system is fun for a bit of a laugh, and is rules light, but fun heavy.

The Neoclassic
2009-01-10, 06:32 PM
I agree with everyone who is in favor of 3.5 (SRD for the win.)

The System Reference Document (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35), which Grail mentioned, is the rules of 3.5. It's online, free, and entirely legal (it was put out by WotC themselves) and has everything you need for a great, customizable set of rules. This is essentially my holy book for roleplaying, and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

Satyr
2009-01-10, 06:33 PM
What you are probably looking for is a one book RPG, a game where you only need one book to play. D&D is therefore not an ideal option, as you normally need more than one book; so is GURPS, which is one of the roleplying games around (and in my opinion so far superior to D&D that the comparison is more than only completely unfair).

Good roleplaying games, that require only one book include:

All Flesh Must Be Eaten (an adaptable, easy to learn system of great flexibility. With Zombies.)

Harnmaster (a very gritty and more realistic medieval game for a game in the dark ages. Great game for a non-sugarcoated game.)

Pendragon (a game of knights on the court of King Arthur. Very clearly focused on chivalry and knighthood, but within this specific focus, it is great.

Earthdawn (a high fantasy game with a very well made background. Perhaps one of the most underestimated RPG's ever that may share a similar scope as D&D but never deserved to stand in its shadow)

Unknown Armies (one of the best modern fantasy games around - a game like a David Lynch movie)

And the obligatory Witchcraft (http://www.edenstudios.net/witchcraft/WitchcraftCorebook.zip) link. It's free, it's great, it is very adaptable - it uses the same set of rules as All Flesh Must Be Eaten and other Eden Games systems (Armageddon, Buffy...) and is extremely flexible. The rules are similarly flexible as Gurps - I use them per default as a replacement for D&D in more mature settings such as Midnight and Dark Sun and since it is effectively the same system as All Flesh Must Be Eaten, you can use the same splat books.
Besides, the original setting is good as well. Witchcraft was always the better World of Darkness, (especially for the game mechanics), but since the complete decline of that series ("nWoD") this is no challenge anymore.

Jimp
2009-01-10, 06:46 PM
Unisystem is another points based option if the vast amount of info in GURPS is a bit too complicated. Character creation is similar and combat is different, but on a whole it's simpler than GURPS.

Dublock
2009-01-10, 06:53 PM
I agree with everyone who is in favor of 3.5 (SRD for the win.)

The System Reference Document (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35), which Grail mentioned, is the rules of 3.5. It's online, free, and entirely legal (it was put out by WotC themselves) and has everything you need for a great, customizable set of rules. This is essentially my holy book for roleplaying, and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

The SRD is not the win all of RPGs, for example it does not have the rules for when you gain feats. There are a few rules missing from the SRD that makes playing just from the SRD a problem.

With that said, if you only got one book, D&D is not it

Vortling
2009-01-10, 07:11 PM
Since the standard D&D versions have been mentioned I'd like to suggest Savage Worlds (http://www.peginc.com/). You can get a rules overview here (http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/SWEX/TD06.pdf). The entire system costs $10 for everything you need to play.

Also I suggest the D&D 3.5 srd (http://www.d20srd.org/) as a good place to start for games since it is free. Contrasting with 4e which is brand new and you're unlikely to be able to start a game for less than $60.

The Neoclassic
2009-01-10, 07:26 PM
The SRD is not the win all of RPGs, for example it does not have the rules for when you gain feats. There are a few rules missing from the SRD that makes playing just from the SRD a problem.

I guess I just had them memorized too well by the time I started using the SRD exclusively. :smallsmile: I still think it is full of win; though perhaps not best for someone who hasn't already delved into 3.0 or 3.5 for the reason which you point out.

Knaight
2009-01-10, 07:27 PM
Try Fudge, its available free online www.fudgerpg.com its rules light but really easy to up rules heaviness on because of how much supplemental material there is, and it has its own forum. Its very elegant, and incredibly customizable. For instance I have run a few dramatically different fantasy games, a game where the players were experimental robots, sci fi black ops, a modern game, etc.

BRC
2009-01-10, 07:29 PM
I guess I just had them memorized too well by the time I started using the SRD exclusively. :smallsmile: I still think it is full of win; though perhaps not best for someone who hasn't already delved into 3.0 or 3.5 for the reason which you point out.
The SRD very strategically leaves out just enough crucial information such that you need to at least know somebody that has the actual books in order to play. It

BobVosh
2009-01-10, 07:31 PM
If fantasy isn't your thing, there is Alternity,or D20 Modern.

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-10, 08:00 PM
...might I recommend Star Wars Saga Edition?

Llama231
2009-01-10, 08:11 PM
I would suggest 4e, it is nice and simple, and more forgiving than other RPGs. The only problem is that it is a little low on customization.

Starscream
2009-01-10, 08:21 PM
I agree that 4E is simpler to pick up, but with 3.5 you have the online SRD, which is a huge help. Personally, I started with 3.5, after a ten year gap before which I had only played 2E Basic, and after a few hours I picked it up fine.

I suppose the biggest factor is who you are going to be playing with. If the other players are likewise inexperienced, 4E might be the right choice for everyone.

Malfunctioned
2009-01-10, 08:33 PM
How has no one mentioned Mutants and Masterminds yet? Very flexible point-based system and it's quite similar to 3.5 D&D.

Matthew
2009-01-11, 07:52 AM
I would suggest Savage Worlds or True20.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-11, 08:10 AM
Mongoose's RuneQuest. (Or the older versions, if you can find them. They're almost as good.) SRDs available online. (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=39)

Panda-s1
2009-01-11, 11:17 PM
Well, there is Labyrinth Lord (http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.htm). Now I haven't played it yet, but it's basically basic D&D. Not a bad start for fantasy games, though it is a bit old school.

4e D&D is much easier to run than 3.5. 3.5 does have the advantage of having the majority of its rules online for free, though. Either way you'd want a DMG just 'cause it'll give you advice on how to actually run a game and make adventures.

Star Wars Saga Edition is pretty good if you like Star Wars (and unlike the new D&D, people almost unanimously agree that it's better than Revised Edition). Though.... it's pretty hard to find, but if you can get a hold of the old West End Star Wars RPG, that's an awesome game. The only problem is Jedi are overpowered, so it helps if your players are Star Wars fans if they want to use the force, otherwise they'll have a tendency to abuse their abilities as Jedi.

Matthew
2009-01-11, 11:35 PM
Certainly, Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC and Mutant Future are all excellent games (and I have played them). As you say, though, they do require traditional sensibilities to get the most out of, which may not appeal to everyone.

Ironlich
2009-01-13, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the tips, everyone!
I've never thought about online rule systems, I'll definitly check those out before buying anything. As for GURPS, a lot of people says its great and easy to us with any setting, but also that its complicated. Exactly how is it complicated?

Tacoma
2009-01-13, 04:12 PM
Indeed, I myself started my RPG journey in Star Wreck RPG D&D 3.5.
As a Finn I stayed long and hard, and after four days of reading the books, I ran my first session as a DM.

This is magical. Every day my appreciation for Finland and its people increases. :smallbiggrin:

I suggest the micro-d20 previously mentioned. In some ways it doesn't explain enough and assumes you know the d20 system already. For example, when describing statistics, it says that the statistic bonus is (STAT-10)/2. But it doesn't make it clear that if your bonus is negative that means you have a penalty: as in a stat of 6 (6-10 = -4. -4/2 = -2). If you read that rule in a vacuum you might get it wrong.

But on the plus side, if you decide to go into 3.0 or 3.5 D&D later it's an easy leap.

Tacoma
2009-01-13, 04:14 PM
Thanks for the tips, everyone!
I've never thought about online rule systems, I'll definitly check those out before buying anything. As for GURPS, a lot of people says its great and easy to us with any setting, but also that its complicated. Exactly how is it complicated?

Run a google search for "gurps lite" or "gurps light". I'm pretty sure they spell it "lite". Anyway, it's the stripped-down version of the system that they give away for free.

GURPS complicates things mainly by making you jump through a lot of hoops to figure your skills. But I don't have experience playing it, so maybe someone who has can elaborate on what it's like in practice.

Another_Poet
2009-01-13, 04:33 PM
Lots of people are suggesting 3.5, and many people are suggesting starting with a free system. Why not put those hands together?

Go to Paizo and download their Pathfinder RPG for free (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG). It's the same as D&D 3.5 except slightly moe balanced and more character options. You can make your own world if you have DM experience, or use any 3.5 module. (Such as the free ones at the wotc site).

Also, a couple of classic D&D worlds are updated to 3.5 for free online, so check out Dark Sun (http://athas.org/) or Spelljammer (http://www.spelljammer.org/sj3e/).

All free, all legal and all at your fingertips. I'm such a helpful poster. :smalltongue:

Satyr
2009-01-13, 04:59 PM
As for GURPS, a lot of people says its great and easy to us with any setting, but also that its complicated. Exactly how is it complicated?

I would say that Gurps is perhaps complex, but not complicated. The system offers an unmatched number of varieties, options and tools to create your own contents, but the core of the rule principles are alwys the same and very simple to learn and to adjust. You can variate a Gurps setting into whatever you want - you can use extremely simple rules, or extremely complex ones, and, best of all, you can chose which parts of the rules ou want to be complex and which ones are better left as simple as possible.

In the basic rules, Gurps is an extremely easy roleplaying game, probably easier to learn and understand than D&D (while still offering a myriad of the other system's options), and in the high end area of the rules mastery, the game is a toolbox to create whatever you want with it.

There is one drawback though - character creation in Gurps are an organic growth, not the slapping together of some basic categories as in D&D; character creation can therefore take some more time; you can create things like "character classes" if you want to (which is exactly as complex as creating a character), but usually you just let your character grow.

And at the first view the number of options can see a bit overwhelming and it takes some time (an hour or so, as I said the rules aren't complicated) to get into it and even then it will take its time to filter through many options. In the long run, this diversity is no drawback at all, but one of the greatest strengths a role playing game could have - adaptbility, the idea that you and not the system should define the limits of the game and the system should not ever force you to a certain style of playing.

The thing is, you can easily substitute at least three quarters of all roleplayying rules through Gurps while achieving a significant improvement (with the possible exception of the tradition of the former setting). There are few better rules and none with a similar excellent adaptability.

BTW, you can get a free preview version of the Gurps rules (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/). It's worth a look (even though the system is very cut down here).