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Froogleyboy
2009-01-10, 09:51 PM
In my party there is a vampire chick who keeps turning helpless people into her personal meat shields. Like last night we had an inccedint. The party was fighting a large group of demons. She turns into a bat and flys into the nearest town (about a 2 hour flight) she turns everybody, one-by-one, into her minions and sends them to there death. during that our conversation went like this:

Her: I instruct my minions to go attack the demons unarmed.

Me: Do you really want to send all these poor people to there deaths?

Her: Wait, I'll keep some for the next battle

The Neoclassic
2009-01-10, 09:54 PM
So, are you playing or DMing? Complaining, or just sharing her behavior with us?

Her strategy doesn't seem like it should be all that effective. If they are that easy for her to control, she's probably a much higher level. If that's the case, I can't imagine them actually being able to hurt the demon much. I suppose if she's just looking for people to hide behind... Still, hardly seems worth the effort.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-10, 09:58 PM
I'm DMing. and I want to know how to stop this. The ppl weren't meant to hurt the demon she wanted to watch them be slaughterd.

Seonor
2009-01-10, 10:02 PM
As long as your party is evil aligned, I don't see the problem (besides that now every paladin, cleric, local duke+army, etc. will hunt her down). If your party is at least neutral, there is a cure for vampirism. It has the aditional benefit of being permanent if done right.

If its you personally that feels rather conflicted about her actions, try to talk out of charecter with the player.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-10, 10:02 PM
The joys of telling Chaotic Evil characters to fight demons, I guess...

The Neoclassic
2009-01-10, 10:03 PM
So many solutions...

Your PC seems to have forgotten the obvious: There is always someone more powerful. Realistically, if there is a vampire running about and kidnapping innocent villagers, sooner or later some good NPCs are going to hear about it. Think about it: If your PCs were an NPC group, a group of good PCs would be all over this! Unless adventurers are quite rare in your world, some high level paladin, cleric, or other strong NPC is going to try to hunt her down and kill her.

What is the rest of the party like? If you are not running an evil campaign, it seems unlikely they'd stay with her. Even a callous neutral party would probably find her behavior far too vile with which to associate.

BobVosh
2009-01-10, 10:16 PM
Don't forget solars. If they are fighting demons then celestia will be interested.

Assassin89
2009-01-10, 10:20 PM
Three words: Cleric of Pelor. Pelor does not like the undead and therefore such a cleric would be seeking to have the vampire repent. Not only that, but the cleric could summon some celestials.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-10, 10:27 PM
We are a good & neutral party. She is supposed to be LN. The rest of the party was ticked. I'm trying to roll up a 10th level paladin (vampire slayer) who was hired by the last remaining priest (who hid in the celler under the church) to fix her problem. (Beth if your out there watch out!)

RTGoodman
2009-01-10, 10:31 PM
Oh man, I just had an AWESOME idea. Instead of a Paladin called in by a priest in some sort of divine deus ex machina, you should totally have this survivor be a Commoner who constantly stalks the vampire in order to exact revenge for his losses. Bonus points if you give him the Survivor PrC from Savage Species and make him a Human Paragon or something like that.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-10, 10:39 PM
I understood NONE of that.

RTGoodman
2009-01-10, 10:44 PM
Basically, don't call in a Paladin to hunt down your vampire, just have a BAD-ASS NORMAL DUDE. Not a Paladin, not a spell-slinger, not even a Fighter - just a Commoner with an old rusty sword on the road looking to kill the vampire that led his whole family and town to their doom.

The other stuff (the Survivor prestige class from the Savage Species book, and the Human Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#humanParagon) levels) isn't necessary is just to make him slightly better when the time to fight actually comes.

Altima
2009-01-10, 10:45 PM
The demon is a servant of Orcus.

And happens to know Control Undead (assuming she turned the townsfolk into the demi-vampire thingies).

Woops, suddenly all those meat shields are suddenly its meat shields.

Oh, and would you look at that? It subdued the poor vampire PC, performed a fell ritual using the corpses of her freshly slain victims, and now has the ability to instantly erase her from existance if she does not do as it says.

And after she's been knocked off her high horse a bit, and out doing menial fed-ex for the demon, then you drive the point (stake?) home by introducing the vampire hunters, the (rather aggravated) adventurer next of kin of the slaughtered villagers, and possibly a cult of something or other who don't like the demon nor her.

And after all of that, make her next encounter with a rust monster horde.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-10, 10:53 PM
The demon is a servant of Orcus.

And happens to know Control Undead (assuming she turned the townsfolk into the demi-vampire thingies).

Woops, suddenly all those meat shields are suddenly its meat shields.

Oh, and would you look at that? It subdued the poor vampire PC, performed a fell ritual using the corpses of her freshly slain victims, and now has the ability to instantly erase her from existance if she does not do as it says.

And after she's been knocked off her high horse a bit, and out doing menial fed-ex for the demon, then you drive the point (stake?) home by introducing the vampire hunters, the (rather aggravated) adventurer next of kin of the slaughtered villagers, and possibly a cult of something or other who don't like the demon nor her.

And after all of that, make her next encounter with a rust monster horde.


I pulled the control undead stuff but our vampire has an "admirer" another guy in our group (A Half-gold dragon Half-orc) protected her by rolling two criticals on the leader of the group of demons (which killed it) the succubi fled.

Stephen_E
2009-01-10, 10:58 PM
We are a good & neutral party. She is supposed to be LN. The rest of the party was ticked. I'm trying to roll up a 10th level paladin (vampire slayer) who was hired by the last remaining priest (who hid in the celler under the church) to fix her problem. (Beth if your out there watch out!)

I suggest you point out to Beth that she is playing her PC as major EVIL alignment (I'd also debate the Lawful part as well). Make sure she understands that. Then whack her upside the head with the Paladin.

I'd also suggest you give a freehand to the Good PCs in the party in dealing with her. Frankly IMHO blantant mass slaughter of villagers for kicks is the sort of thing that that fully entitles good PCs to turn on a comrade and execute them. At the very least it makes it awfully hard to justify continuing to hang with her.

Stephen E

The Neoclassic
2009-01-10, 11:04 PM
I suggest you point out to Beth that she is playing her PC as major EVIL alignment (I'd also debate the Lawful part as well). Make sure she understands that. Then whack her upside the head with the Paladin.

I'd also suggest you give a freehand to the Good PCs in the party in dealing with her. Frankly IMHO blantant mass slaughter of villagers for kicks is the sort of thing that that fully entitles good PCs to turn on a comrade and execute them. At the very least it makes it awfully hard to justify continuing to hang with her.

Hear, hear! As DM, you have final say over the PC's alignment. From the moment she started playing "Commoners 4 meat shields timez!", her alignment hit LE. I usually go with a looser interpretation of alignement, but this is very straightforward.

kopout
2009-01-10, 11:04 PM
Basically, don't call in a Paladin to hunt down your vampire, just have a BAD-ASS NORMAL DUDE. Not a Paladin, not a spell-slinger, not even a Fighter - just a Commoner with an old rusty sword on the road looking to kill the vampire that led his whole family and town to their doom.

The other stuff (the Survivor prestige class from the Savage Species book, and the Human Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#humanParagon) levels) isn't necessary is just to make him slightly better when the time to fight actually comes.

I have to say , I second this idea most heartedly. It would be awesome. But , yeah, tell her what she did wrong first , give her time to turn around if she doesn't sic her.

FoE
2009-01-10, 11:06 PM
How long did this battle last for the vampire to fly two hours away, vampirize an entire town and then fly back? Did the party call "time out" and ask the demons to wait for her return? And did these idiot townfolk even try to defend themselves?

That said, the slaughter of an entire town is grounds for divine intervention as well as mortal. If your other party members won't deal with her, drop a rock on her in the form of a squad of celestials. It's probably going to create some animosity at the table, but you've got no choice.

Starscream
2009-01-10, 11:16 PM
I agree, show her who's boss by getting someone to kick her butt. It doesn't even need to be supernatural, vampires have enough glaring weaknesses that anyone who might possess the knowledge of how to defeat one can be a genuine threat.

Sunlight, stakes, garlic, mirrors, running water, these are all common materials that anyone can obtain. No need to have some celestial come down and drop a bridge on her, a well informed crowd of commoners with torches and pitchforks will do the trick. For such powerful creatures, vampires have way more vulnerabilities than most undead.

My favorite is holy symbols. You don't have to be able to turn undead, you don't even have to worship the deity in question, you don't need a roll and the vamp doesn't get a save. It doesn't even need to be a good deity. Heck, Orcus' holy symbol would do, and he's the god of undead creatures.

Since you mentioned that the other players dislike her behavior, simply point out the long list of weaknesses she possesses. They don't need to kill her, but they can invest in some everyday items and make it clear to her that should she cross the line again they have her number.

RTGoodman
2009-01-10, 11:22 PM
My favorite is holy symbols. [...] It doesn't even need to be a good deity. Heck, Orcus' holy symbol would do, and he's the god of undead creatures.

Well, technically Evil gods use UNHOLY symbols and Vampire Weaknesses specifically says HOLY symbols (and also, Vamp Clerics should still be allowed to use Unholy symbols without problem), but I think one of Orcus is appropriate. Either way, it's a cool idea. In fact, Froogleyboy, you should definitely check out the Weakness section of the Vampire entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) and throw all KINDS of stuff from there at your pesky vamp character.

Altima
2009-01-10, 11:34 PM
I pulled the control undead stuff but our vampire has an "admirer" another guy in our group (A Half-gold dragon Half-orc) protected her by rolling two criticals on the leader of the group of demons (which killed it) the succubi fled.


You being the DM allows you to do such things as, you know, screw with the dice roll.

You could also penalize the OTHER players for putting up with it--got any paladins, clerics, or (god forbid) druids in the party? They shouldn't be that keen on travelling with an always chaotic evil race like vampires in the first place. Make them lose their spellcasting and supernatural abilities until they 'atone' and I imagine your vampire PC will quickly clean up her act.

Or the party members will kill her and she'll be forced to roll up another one. On the other hand, killing generally isn't a good way to redeem oneself, especially if it's a travelling companion. It might also create some, er, tension between the players.

rtg0922: Good clerics use holy symbols to turn undead. Evil clerics use unholy symbols to rebuke undead--good clerics dust undead, evil clerics control 'em. Also, it's debatable on whether or not Orcus himself is actually able to grant spells. It's up to the DM to judge whether or not the Arch-Dukes and Demon Princes have the divine spark.

Zeful
2009-01-10, 11:45 PM
Oh man, I just had an AWESOME idea. Instead of a Paladin called in by a priest in some sort of divine deus ex machina, you should totally have this survivor be a Commoner who constantly stalks the vampire in order to exact revenge for his losses. Bonus points if you give him the Survivor PrC from Savage Species and make him a Human Paragon or something like that.

How is the Deus ex machina? The Vampire killed the population of an entire town! That's like putting a giant neon sign saying "INVESTIGATE OH GREAT CLERICS WHO CAN CAST SPEAK WITH DEAD." Having nothing happen is deus ex machina. Having the word put out that there's a female Vampire running around is the natural course of things.

Starscream
2009-01-10, 11:47 PM
'Nother idea: got a cleric or druid in the party? Look up the spell Spark of Life from SPC. It can temporarily rob an undead creature of its many immunities. Seeing as this won't take away any of its weaknesses, it can seriously cripple a vampire, who is now vulnerable to just about everything a normal human is, as well as a ton of stuff on top of that.

The mere knowledge that a party member has a trick like that in their arsenal would make any vampire think twice before stepping out of line.

Iku Rex
2009-01-10, 11:55 PM
Into every generation, a Slayer is born.

Bring in a tiny blonde chick with a fancy template and monk levels. Then...

http://i29.tinypic.com/2poxy78.jpg
(What?)

PinkysBrain
2009-01-10, 11:59 PM
The massacre of an entire village is the stuff legends are made of ... making those kind of waves makes a person easy to find (ie. Vision will find out what she looks like). Is there a CN rogue in the party by any chance (they aren't exactly rare). That wanted poster in the next town with a 50K gold reward might persuade him he'd rather do without the vampire chick.

PS. ask for her character sheet for a moment and change her alignment to CE.

PPS. "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out."

Asbestos
2009-01-11, 12:05 AM
Wait... how did she bite everyone? Did she knock on every door in town and ask to come in... and they all let her? You don't need to hide in the cellar to avoid D&D vamps, you can hide in your comfy house and just flip her off when she comes knocking. Heck! You could have all the doors and windows open even.

Have the party encounter streams, rivers, open sewers, whatever. She can't cross them unless she's resting in her coffin and being carried, meaning she can't fly over them I believe.


Also, she must've turned them all into spawn because well... you can't dominate some commoners and have them go punch a demon in the face, kind of goes against the whole "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out" part of the spell.

edit: Spawn take at least 1 day to rise... by RAW what she did should pretty much be impossible. Correct?

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-11, 12:08 AM
She is supposed to be LN.AHAHAHAHA. Well, she's not anymore.

Slaughtering a whole village = Summon Rival Adventuring Party spell. Don't just send in one Paladin: send in his whole coterie in case the party decides to be idiots and defend her.

RTGoodman
2009-01-11, 12:09 AM
How is the Deus ex machina?

Well, it's not really a D.E.M., but I just don't particularly like that the only survivor is a cleric that "calls in the cavalry."


Wait... how did she bite everyone?

Maybe we're talking about some combination of vampire spawn from biting them AND dominated victims from just the dominate SLA? Ah, right, ninja'd on the edit above - forgot about that whole "no suicidal missions" thing.


Did she knock on every door in town and ask to come in... and they all let her? You don't need to hide in the cellar to avoid D&D vamps, you can hide in your comfy house and just flip her off when she comes knocking. Heck! You could have all the doors and windows open even.

Have the party encounter streams, rivers, open sewers, whatever. She can't cross them unless she's resting in her coffin and being carried, meaning she can't fly over them I believe.

Man... now that I think about ALL the weaknesses of vampires, I realize I'd NEVER want to play a Vampire PC. I mean, the +8 LA just sucks, but those weaknesses really mean you almost HAVE to retire since you'd never be able to go really anywhere.

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 12:13 AM
Quick and easy way to shut her up. Force them to go to a dungeon which requires you to pass under a waterfall to enter. Moving water. BAM! Hell, just to really tick her off start placing traps in your dungeon that will constantly cast Create Water over random doorways when triggered. Let's see her try to move through there when every single door she opens results in creating a new waterfall. Then make it so all the water drains towards the middle of the dungeon. Not only are you creating a waterfall, but you're creating rivers too. Of course, don't make it obvious that that's what's happening right away. Just have the water trickle down at first. After 5 or 6 of the traps have been activated have it turn into a full river. By the time she realizes what's happening she should have quite a bit of river to wade through to get back out. Want a real kicker? Make the entrance to the dungeon small enough they have to crawl in so she can't bring her coffin, then have the dungeon a labyrinth. Or, if the coffin's made of wood, have it so the river creates a whirlpool in the middle of the dungeon and let the coffin get sucked in.

Asbestos
2009-01-11, 12:14 AM
Man... now that I think about ALL the weaknesses of vampires, I realize I'd NEVER want to play a Vampire PC. I mean, the +8 LA just sucks, but those weaknesses really mean you almost HAVE to retire since you'd never be able to go really anywhere.

That's why vamps live in castles and just let people come to them, its really the only thing they can do.


edit: Just noticed something else. Her 'admirer' is a half-Gold Dragon?? Is he aware that his race choice gives him quite the predilection towards LG? Please tell me he isn't.

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 12:17 AM
Maybe we're talking about some combination of vampire spawn from biting them AND dominated victims from just the dominate SLA? Ah, right, ninja'd on the edit above - forgot about that whole "no suicidal missions" thing.


Actually, they could get around that if the townsfolk didn't realize there was a demon there.

"Hey guys, be a pal and go over that hill there kay?"
"Ok, sure! Anything you sa-OHGODSWHY?!?!"

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 12:19 AM
Once the demons were destroyed our cleric attacked Beth. Nick (Our half-dragon half-orc barbarian) defended her and he has crazy stats. For a while it was funny untill Jake (the cleric) almost died and then the sun started to rise :smallcool:

PinkysBrain
2009-01-11, 12:26 AM
Somehow I'm getting the feeling the LAs on some of their templates got a bit reduced.

Zeful
2009-01-11, 12:28 AM
Well, it's not really a D.E.M., but I just don't particularly like that the only survivor is a cleric that "calls in the cavalry."

I can agree with that. But unless the town was truly "off the grid" as it were, someone has to show up at the now deserted town, and report it. Since a small town likely has a cleric or other divine spokesperson, the calvary will show up, find the bodies, cast speak with dead and get a description. In two weeks, minimum, there are wanted posters in every town for a substantial sum, and a group of high level Clerics and Paladins looking for the perpetrator(s).

Starscream
2009-01-11, 12:29 AM
Okay, here's a fun one. According to MM, presenting a holy symbol to a vampire to keep it at bay is a standard action. That's it. There are no other requirements besides having the symbol and being able to perform standard actions.

So you could imprison a vampire indefinitely simply by surrounding her with a ring of golems ordered to keep waving holy symbols at her. She won't be able to attack them, move past them, anything. She can't dominate them because they are mindless. You could even put one above her to keep her from flying away as a bat or a cloud.

She'll be trapped forever, waiting for the danged things to simply wear out or someone to come by and free her. And the funny part is that this only works on vampires. Tons of "lesser" undead like ghouls and shadows can simply wander by and laugh at her.

Maybe make her an undead tourist attraction..."Step right up! 1 gp gets you three cloves of garlic to throw at her! land one in her mouth and win a 'Vamps (literally) Suck!' t-shirt!"

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 12:32 AM
I'll mention the golem thing to our artificer

Flickerdart
2009-01-11, 12:39 AM
Vampires, as Undead, are vulnerable against Clerics. And daylight. All you have to do is have Pelor or Kelemvor's servants take notice, and extract judgement by flushing her out during the day and then dusting her. Or, even better.

She's supposed to be LN, right? Drop paladins on them. Routine checkpoint, suspicious activity in the area, Detect Evil, that sort of thing. She, as a Neutral, surrenders to their inspection, then blips as Evil (obviously) and bites the dust. If she resists right away, they just kill her faster. Make it clear these people are going to pose a challenge. Paladins have high saves, and lay on the hurt to Evil creatures. A vampire and a Half-dragon are no match for, say, six paladins or Clerics of equal level.

PinkysBrain
2009-01-11, 12:41 AM
The golems are more of a low CR way for you the DM to trap her.

If anyone in the party wants her dead there are easier ways ... just teleporting her casket up into the air on a sunny afternoon (unconscious characters are automatically willing) will probably kill her if she has no magic items/spells to get the hell out of the sun. Vampires have a lot of weaknesses.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 12:43 AM
I'd much rather have her just cured if thats possible

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-11, 12:44 AM
There's no listed cure for Vampirism; it's up to you as DM. Although, if she was destroyed and then ressurected, she'd be a regular mortal once more.

In other words, killing her is a great way to start.

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 12:48 AM
There's no listed cure for Vampirism; it's up to you as DM. Although, if she was destroyed and then ressurected, she'd be a regular mortal once more.

In other words, killing her is a great way to start.

Could sanctify her. It would rob her of most of her powers and make her alignment good.

RTGoodman
2009-01-11, 12:49 AM
Maybe make her an undead tourist attraction..."Step right up! 1 gp gets you three cloves of garlic to throw at her! land one in her mouth and win a 'Vamps (literally) Suck!' t-shirt!"

I don't know why, but that literally made me snort with laughter.


As far as a "cure," I think probably will involve her being killed first. Well, you could throw in that spell from BoED that rips out an Evil creature's soul, tortures it for a year or whatever, and then brings it back as a shiny new Redeemed [whatever]. :smallamused:

EDIT: Ninja'd sorta by Kyouhen - the spell I mentioned is called sanctify the wicked.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 12:54 AM
Nobody in our party can resurect other than our cleric and he is TICKED at beth

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 12:56 AM
Nobody in our party can resurect other than our cleric and he is TICKED at beth

Again, turn her into a sanctified creature. Have the cleric find a Scroll of Sanctify The Wicked or something and let him figure out for himself what to do with it. :smallamused:

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-11, 12:58 AM
BURN 'ER ANYWAY!

I'd be pretty pissed too, if I was a Good or generally well-natured PC who suddenly found himself working with a mass-murderer.

Anyway, as DM, set up a quest of some kind to cure her. Purifying her undead form with an ancient ritual performed in an ancient temple of the Sun God, dunking her in specially prepared holy water from the Spring of Life, whatever.

As someone who generally ignores the Book of Exalted Deeds on principle, I can't support a Mindrape Sanctify the Wicked spell.

Moonshadow
2009-01-11, 01:00 AM
1. Kill vamp
2. Find Druid
3. Reincarnation
4. ????
5. Profit!

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 01:11 AM
Or you could do what I did when I had a vampire that needed to be temporarily nerfed. Basically he was too strong for that point in the story, but I felt like letting him be a vampire anyway. We came to an agreement and I slapped him with a cursed muzzle that prevented him from using any supernatural abilities. Just feed said muzzle to the cleric and let him put it on the bloodsucker. Hell, you probably wouldn't even need to tell him what to do with it. I don't see anyone else in the party doing much biting. :smallbiggrin:

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 01:15 AM
The muzzle idea sounds cool but how could i get it to him

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 01:23 AM
The muzzle idea sounds cool but how could i get it to him

Have them find it in a quest. To make it more obvious what it does, have them find a lycanthrope wearing it who's unable to change shape. That's a supernatural ability, so it works. Let them contact a cleric to cast remove curse (or have yours do it if he can) to allow them to remove the muzzle and you're set.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-01-11, 01:24 AM
He's a part of a Church, isn't he? Most Good-aligned churches would feel they have a vested interest in having one of their faithful servants neutralize a powerful, evil undead, and access to any magical resources they may have acquired over the centuries.

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 01:27 AM
He's a part of a Church, isn't he? Most Good-aligned churches would feel they have a vested interest in having one of their faithful servants neutralize a powerful, evil undead, and access to any magical resources they may have acquired over the centuries.

I like this idea better. Then he'll actually know exactly what the muzzle does and what to do with it.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 01:36 AM
I'm wouldn't call his god "Good"

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 01:38 AM
I'm wouldn't call his god "Good"

Either way if he isn't an evil cleric, which I would assume because he tried to kill the Vampire for murdering an entire town, then his god likely wouldn't look kindly upon such actions and would still be happy to assist in stopping the Vampire. Hell, a neutral god would probably be more likely to support the muzzle than to want to kill the Vampire outright.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 01:42 AM
Either way if he isn't an evil cleric, which I would assume because he tried to kill the Vampire for murdering an entire town, then his god likely wouldn't look kindly upon such actions and would still be happy to assist in stopping the Vampire. Hell, a neutral god would probably be more likely to support the muzzle than to want to kill the Vampire outright.

Is the muzzle like an actual dog muzzle

FoE
2009-01-11, 01:43 AM
Sounds like it's not just the vampire that's the problem, but the half-dragon with a crush on her. A generic vampire slayer might not be enough. And this muzzle idea might not work if your half-dragon is OK with her slaughtering people and rips it off her.

I suggest the curb-stomping method. Incidentally, wouldn't an extreme alignment switch be a case for siccing some Inevitables on her?

Kyouhen
2009-01-11, 01:56 AM
Is the muzzle like an actual dog muzzle

Eh, I had it more of a Hannibal Lector mask. Anything that keeps the person from biting things.

@Face of Evil: That's why it's a cursed muzzle. Only way to get rid of it is with remove curse, and from what I know of the party the only person who can cast that is the person who wants to slap the muzzle on the vampire in the first place. Get one party member to distract the half-dragon and by the time he knows what's going on the vampire's lost all of it's abilities.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 02:03 AM
dude! awesome!

shadowfox
2009-01-11, 02:13 AM
Have them fight devils. (Devils are quite different than demons)

Seriously. Devils are, by nature, extremely tactical. Maybe some commoners she possessed were vital to a group of devils for one reason or another. Devils aren't stupid; if they know they're going up against a vampire, they'll prepare accordingly. They set up traps, prevent their enemies from using certain abilities, can summon other devils for backup, and, when all else fails, they teleport away (and maybe teleport back later to further deal with the people that so rudely interrupted them earlier).

If the party's dealing with demons, then devils shouldn't be terribly hard to fit in. Maybe the demons were converting commoners from LE (which would mean souls for the devils) into CE (which means no souls for the devils), so they dispatched a group to take care of them.

Alternatively, if that's too complicated, there are several other good ideas that have been posted. I can offer a bit of advice that is easier to implement, though.

First, her alignment needs to change, to LE at least (I'm sorry, but turning an entire village into meat shields is NOT Neutral-worthy, because I can't even think of a good-aligned counter-arguement to justify doing it (I'm sorry, but I don't think "to slay some demons" is a good enough reason for that extreme action)); she is probably more along the lines of NE, if not already CE. You, as a DM, have the power to do that. Secondly, remind the "admirer" of his alignment, and of the actions she's taken. If you want to go as far as to enforce him to be LG (thereby preventing him from changing alignments), that's your choice. Third, talk to the PC and explain that this is unacceptable behavior.

However, if she doesn't change, or if she's too much of a problem to keep around, may I recommend one particular enemy: Beholders.

Beholders have three Ray attacks that you might find interesting: Disintegrate, Finger of Death, and Flesh to Stone. I think you will take the greatest amount of interest in these because, quite simply, they all require a Fortitude Save, which are notoriously effective against Undead; also, these are uses of the Beholder's Ray attacks, which require an attack roll against Touch AC, thereby rendering the vampire's Natural Armor bonus (which is +6), as well as any armor or shield she uses, useless to guard her. Since she lacks a Constitution score, her Fortitude Save is not as good as it should be.

Now, if you decide to act on the Beholder suggestion, I have this to say: when reduced to 0 HP or below, a vampire automatically assumes its Gaseous Form, and must make its way back to its coffin withing 2 hours; in its Gaseous Form, it has a travel speed of 20 feet. If it can't reach its coffin within the two hours, then it's a goner anyway.

But wait, there's more! Beholders have an Antimagic Field ray, something that prevents spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities, and Vampires have quite a few supernatural abilities:
Children of the Night
Dominate
Create Spawn
Energy Drain
Alternate Form
Damage Reduction
and Gaseous Form
If a vampire dies while subject to the Beholder's Antimagic Field cone, or in an Antimagic Field area, then it can't turn into its gaseous form as long as the field is still up, which means that precious time is wasted.

Finger of Death might not work, since it slay living creatures (and, being undead, I don't think a Vampire counts as "living"), and the Disintegrate Ray will deal 26d6 (2d6 per caster level, and a Beholder counts as a 13th level caster), so Flesh to Stone might not be bad idea. Also, using Charm Monster on the half-dragon barbarian and having him grapple the vampire wouldn't be a bad idea either.

The best thing to do, honestly, is to have 2 Beholders. Both will start with their central eyes closed (Antimagic cone turned off), with one taking a delayed action every round to open it after the vampire is slain (she should probably be seen as a serious threat, for if she survives the encounter, she can always come back (unless, of course, the Beholders prevent that)). Using Charm or Sleep rays on the rest of the party would be ideal as well.

In this scenario, the best bet would be using Flesh to Stone on the vampire (hopefully, the cleric (and any other possible spellcaster) won't be able to undo it). From what it sounds like, the vampire isn't in a combat-oriented class, so she probably has a horrible Fortitude save to begin with. Also, Flesh to Stone would be best because, even if the cleric could undo it, he probably wouldn't; and if you remind the half-dragon of his alignment, then there shouldn't be much of a problem with the loss of the EVIL vampiress... Unless there are other party members that have remained unmentioned.

Personally, I'd change her alignment to NE and talk to her about how her behavior is unacceptable. If she doesn't change, then I'd bring in the Beholders... Or other spellcasters... Or devils (I've been dying to use them as enemies).


Edit (kinda important):
Unless there's some sort of special exception you're making for the half-GOLD dragon barbarian, then he can't be a barbarian. Half-dragons have the same alignment as the color dragon that they're half of, and it just so happens that Gold Dragons are Lawful Good (which, of course, conflicts with the Barbarian's "non-Lawful" requirement). If you really want to go to the extremes, this would be something to use as leverage against the barbarian. But, again, this might be a tad bit extreme, but it'd get the job done.

Edit 2:
Vampires can only control up to 2 times their own HD of vampires/vampire spawns. Given that EVERY humanoid has at least one level --which, given a village, is most likely Commoner-- she can only control a max of 2 times her own HD in villagers... And, if she controlled adults, chances are they're not just first level. Determine the levels of each commoner (or assign a level to all commoners), and base the total number of creatures she can control from that.

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-11, 02:36 AM
Half-dragons have the same alignment as the color dragon that they're half of, and it just so happens that Gold Dragons are Lawful Good (which, of course, conflicts with the Barbarian's "non-Lawful" requirement).

Dude, alignment is not a straitjacket. "Always: [...] it is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions." Demons can be good (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a), and they're literally made out of evil.

And blackmailing someone with a "mistake" you made when reviewing their character (your "leverage")? "If your character doesn't do exactly what I want him to do, I might just 'remember' that your character technically can't exist?" Damn, that's low. How can you even half-jokingly suggest that?

shadowfox
2009-01-11, 02:52 AM
And blackmailing someone with a "mistake" you made when reviewing their character (your "leverage")? "If your character doesn't do exactly what I want him to do, I might just 'remember' that your character technically can't exist?" Damn, that's low. How can you even half-jokingly suggest that?

At no point did I recommend it. Unfortunately, I was entirely serious about it, but I was joking when I called it "a tad bit extreme." Plus, I know have all the specifics, and I know that there are always exceptions (taking psychology courses taught me that), but I do suffer from having a half-a-dozen too many players create CG Drow that are out to redeem their evil-aligned comrades.

Again, I support the "talk it out with her" method. It's helped me through quite a number of occasions similar, but less extreme, than this, and if the PC knows that you're concerned about something, then he or she won't be as surprised when you do something about it. If anything, it's the difference whether the player grumbles or storms away from the table.

Someone asked for solutions, and I provided a few... Even if one or two were for the sake of being the Devil's Advocate.

d13
2009-01-11, 02:53 AM
I always find the Godsmackingly Glorious DM's Smashing Fist of the Heavens to be useful...

And it teachs the other party members to behave, too :smallyuk:

Stephen_E
2009-01-11, 03:00 AM
Re: Detect Evil.

A Vampire will always detect as Evil regardless of their actual alignment because undead inherently detect as Evil.

I would REALLY suggest you actually talk to Beth 1st and point out that her PC's behaviour is seriously "Evil" and unless you treat it as some sort of brainfart, and her PC make appropriate apologies to other PC's and agree to not repeat such behaviour, you will rule her alignment has changed and that she better be prepared for her actions having appropriate consequences.

I'd also suggest, depending on his PC's alignment/character, you have a talk with the person playing the half-gold dragon. Is defending that sort of behaviour appropriate for the alignment/character of the PC, even considering he has a crush on her.

Stephen E

Zenos
2009-01-11, 05:45 AM
Just something I thought of, what about having some kind of Evil creature meet her, and point out the action, and say it is disgusted by her behaviour.

Stephen_E
2009-01-11, 07:30 AM
Just something I thought of, what about having some kind of Evil creature meet her, and point out the action, and say it is disgusted by her behaviour.

Why would the Evil creature be disgusted?
I can understand them been pissed if the murders are hauling in "Good" attention that they didn't want.
Exsasperated with the stupidity of it, but disgusted?

All in all the characters behaviour, pointless mass murder for amusement, is classic antisocial CE behaviour.

Stephen E

Zenos
2009-01-11, 08:01 AM
And who says Evil men/creatures can't be disgusted by somone who murders for the hell of it?

EDIT: Yeah, classical CE behaviour. Maybe have some demons show up and try to hire her? Wouldn't sit well with the Good members I'd hazard.

JeminiZero
2009-01-11, 08:19 AM
Eh, I had it more of a Hannibal Lector mask. Anything that keeps the person from biting things.

@Face of Evil: That's why it's a cursed muzzle. Only way to get rid of it is with remove curse, and from what I know of the party the only person who can cast that is the person who wants to slap the muzzle on the vampire in the first place. Get one party member to distract the half-dragon and by the time he knows what's going on the vampire's lost all of it's abilities.


I would like to suggest rather than merely removing her supernatural abilities, the muzzle suppresses all her vampiric triats. She in essence loses the vampire template (and all strengths and weaknesses). This way, she gets to eat normal food, and does not have to rely on blood which she will be unable to obtain and starts going starving crazy.

Also it doesn't have to be a muzzle per se, make it an adorable looking collar, and the Half-Gold-Dragon might think twice about removing it. :smallwink:

If you still want to sic something onto her, perhaps the village was somehow important to an Evil Mind Flayer Cabal with invincible super soldiers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587). Maybe one of the humans there had been specially selected to become the new body for one of their tadpoles, and she killed him just prior to the human's maturity.

So the Cabal send one soldier to pound her to dust for kicks and revenge. Because of his invulnerability, the soldier can ignore the rest of the party no matter what they try and do to him, and just keep going after her. (Read: he kills her without affecting anyone else in the party)

(If you do try this, just let the players know it was revenge for razing the village. Do not let them know there is an evil mindflayer cabal behind it. Thats just asking them to try and go after it and get themselves all killed.)

mostlyharmful
2009-01-11, 09:06 AM
Personally I'd sic evil vampires on her. What she's done is so mindbendingly stupid that every Evil thing around is going to be ticced over all the ramped up Good beings scouring the countryside looking for her that they effectively club her over the back of the head and hand her in to Pelors goon squad. Seriously, mindganking an entire town and then throwing them into a meatgrinder is a big fat no no in any meaningful campaign and should have a range of consequences associated with it....

1. She's CE, no ifs ands or buts.
2. The Gold Dragon fanboi has also taken some big hoofin steps towards Evil
3. Every Good church and Paladin order within a 100 miles will be after her within a week or two at most (less if she left any survivers in the twon)
4. Any Divne caster in the party that draws from a Good God gets a divine mission to smash or loses their casting.
5. As above, there's probably quite a few big uglies that want her stuffed down a toilet just to make their lives easier/safer

hewhosaysfish
2009-01-11, 09:20 AM
I would like to agree with the various people who are saying that you should talk to her before reaching for the "rocks fall, you die" button. Tell her your not happy with including an Evil character in the party; you wanted to run a heroic adventure (If you specifically said "no Evil alignments" at character creation then you may want to mention this. Presumably she agreed to that. Was she sincere? Or was she always planning on acting Evil, regardless of you said?)
Offer various solutions to the situation you're in:

1) She makes a new character; the vampire becomes a NPC who tries to have a nibble of the cleric while he's asleep, gets her ass kicked and flees into the night swearing to get them and their little dog too.

2) Rewind time to before the Evilness happened. The vampire is not Evil, has not done anything Evil and will not do anything Evil. Oh and there are some angry demons looking at you: roll initiative. You'd have to convince the whole group to declare the previous session to have "unhappened" but hopefuly they're reasonable people.

3) Her Evil action are a not her fault. It's her inner vampire nature rising to the surface; she thought she could control it but it's getting stronger and night by night it's turning her into a monster! She throws herself on the mercy of the party (inform the party OOC that they will have mercy) and begs them to find a cure for her vampirism before it consumes her completely. Plot ensues as the party goes on a quest to find a cure, while keeping a carefule eye on the vampire in their midst who may or may not be struggling with her inner demons and/or angsting.

4) Garlic-covered rocks fall, she dies. Option of last resort.

mostlyharmful
2009-01-11, 09:27 AM
Garlic-covered rocks fall, she dies. Option of last resort.

Note please that simply because it's the option of last resort doesn't mean that it has to be lasting, in DnD death is for Christmas not for life. If Golden boy likes her so much he can probably either persuade the grumpy cleric that it was all the vampirisms fault or else just go find a divine caster NPC, (bonus points for the hilarity of Reincarnation)

Narmoth
2009-01-11, 09:36 AM
I would like to agree with the various people who are saying that you should talk to her before reaching for the "rocks fall, you die" button. Tell her your not happy with including an Evil character in the party; you wanted to run a heroic adventure (If you specifically said "no Evil alignments" at character creation then you may want to mention this. Presumably she agreed to that. Was she sincere? Or was she always planning on acting Evil, regardless of you said?)
Offer various solutions to the situation you're in:

1) She makes a new character; the vampire becomes a NPC who tries to have a nibble of the cleric while he's asleep, gets her ass kicked and flees into the night swearing to get them and their little dog too.

2) Rewind time to before the Evilness happened. The vampire is not Evil, has not done anything Evil and will not do anything Evil. Oh and there are some angry demons looking at you: roll initiative. You'd have to convince the whole group to declare the previous session to have "unhappened" but hopefuly they're reasonable people.

3) Her Evil action are a not her fault. It's her inner vampire nature rising to the surface; she thought she could control it but it's getting stronger and night by night it's turning her into a monster! She throws herself on the mercy of the party (inform the party OOC that they will have mercy) and begs them to find a cure for her vampirism before it consumes her completely. Plot ensues as the party goes on a quest to find a cure, while keeping a carefule eye on the vampire in their midst who may or may not be struggling with her inner demons and/or angsting.

4) Garlic-covered rocks fall, she dies. Option of last resort.

This is a good solution. I would make 3) a bit different, making her responsible and having her repent as a paladin if she wants an alignment other than evil.

Just a little sidenote:
The dm should have told her as soon as she flew to the town that her plan was evil, and would change her alignment.

Froogleyboy
2009-01-11, 01:05 PM
I don't really mind having evil in the group. They all started as one of the neutral alignments. I told them they could become good and evil by theyre actions. Beth said she trys to play her vamp like a real vamp.

The Neoclassic
2009-01-11, 01:17 PM
I don't really mind having evil in the group. They all started as one of the neutral alignments. I told them they could become good and evil by theyre actions. Beth said she trys to play her vamp like a real vamp.

Hasn't she ever heard of Edward from Twilight? I mean, he's a real vampire but also really cool and has a heart, resisting his temptation to suck blood from people and... :smalltongue: (NO, I am NOT a Twilight fan!)

Anyway, that nonsense aside, I'd like to point out that vampire does not equal stupid. Stupid is the sort of thing that, as others have said, makes her a target for all paladins within 100 miles. Not all vampires necessarily want wanton destruction of people, and many likely may not even enjoy violence. Sure, they suck out people's blood and are evil, but that does not mean that treating flocks of villagers like lemmings is a must. Not at all.

Just make it clear to Beth: Actions have consequences. If you are going to act like a generic supervillian, slaughtering people just for giggles, then you can expect to be treated as such. And we all know that supervillians get OWNED by heroes (ala NPC paladin).

As everyone else has said, half-dragon "fanboi" (I love how mostlyharmful puts that) is at least TN here for putting up with the vampire's blatant acts of evil (which he could easily stop; this isn't even a "Well, it's evil but it is useful or arguable" sort of thing). Beth is straight-up CE.

Zeful
2009-01-11, 02:40 PM
I don't really mind having evil in the group. They all started as one of the neutral alignments. I told them they could become good and evil by theyre actions. Beth said she trys to play her vamp like a real vamp.

If you let them be evil by their own actions, you should also let the consequences of their actions happen. She razed an entire village. That's not something you can sweep under the rug, ever. Wait two or three weeks then start posting wanted posters with her face and description of the party in every town 150+ miles from the destroyed town. Have the peasants speak of a squad of Clerics and Paladins looking for the vampire. Make it clear that they are as powerful or more so than the party.

Altima
2009-01-11, 05:40 PM
An alternative to the good adventurer's company is siccing an evil/neutral party--less morals means more (im)mortal terror for the PCs.

For example, I'm suddenly reminded of the (former) FR deity, Kiaranshalee. She's a drow goddess of vengeance, undead, and necromancy (beat the tar out of Orcus and tried to erase him from existance).

At certain times of the year, her clerics would all walk in graveyards, battle sites, massacre places, etc. They would, empowered by their goddess, raise the dead as revenants--evil, evil undead--who constantly stalk and attempt to slay their murderers. Oh, and they retain their intellect.

Wanna see how long good/neutral guys who aren't being attacked can hold up to the constant beggings and accusations of their harboring a mass-murderer?

If they can ignore that, then you smack them over the head with the other party that's been following the undead. Hopefully, your party will be low on spells and be no match.

As for your half-dragon, there are ways to neutralize him. Force cage, dominate spells, turn his ass to stone...

Or you could just make the vamp chick ugly. That would probably work.

ericgrau
2009-01-11, 06:41 PM
We are a good & neutral party. She is supposed to be LN.
Not any more she isn't. Neutral can have some evil mixed in, but even a single callous murder crosses way over the line.


The rest of the party was ticked. I'm trying to roll up a 10th level paladin (vampire slayer) who was hired by the last remaining priest (who hid in the celler under the church) to fix her problem. (Beth if your out there watch out!)
She should have more than your paladin to worry about. Any local law enforcement should be after her the moment word gets out. That's b/c she murdered, plain and simple. The law won't even bother with an alignment debate. But you can still go on the hunt, b/c the church may have wanted to send a specialist as well. That doesn't mean other law won't respond appropriately if they see her. OTOH, if they're low level they probably won't run to their deaths. They'll probably go for help. Her party members (your party) may also be held for questioning and possibly be convicted of assisting murders if they don't actively oppose her actions.

The Glyphstone
2009-01-11, 06:50 PM
Hasn't she ever heard of Edward from Twilight? I mean, he's a real vampire but also really cool and has a heart, resisting his temptation to suck blood from people and... :smalltongue: (NO, I am NOT a Twilight fan!)
.
Inhumanly fast, inhumanly smart, inhumanly tough, inhumanly strong, incredibly beautiful+attractive, immortal, no vampiric weaknesses (no, becoming more beautiful in sunlight is not a weakness)...

Edward and company are not vampires.

They're ELVES.:smallbiggrin::smallsmile::smallcool:

Asbestos
2009-01-11, 07:34 PM
Inhumanly fast, inhumanly smart, inhumanly tough, inhumanly strong, incredibly beautiful+attractive, immortal, no vampiric weaknesses (no, becoming more beautiful in sunlight is not a weakness)...

Edward and company are not vampires.

They're ELVES.:smallbiggrin::smallsmile::smallcool:

You left out being able to transform into Ziggy Stardust era David Bowie.

On Beth: If she wants to play her vamp like a real vamp... treat her like a real vamp. Encounter streams, encounter a tavern cooking some garlic heavy dish (without modern hoods and fans, that smell will be evvvverywhere), encounter chumps with holy symbols around their necks (heck, I've got one of those right now, and I live in a vampless world), encounter non-public buildings that the party has to break into (she can't at all unless invited in by someone with authority, convincing bill the janitor to let her in does nothing). If you want to be mean... give them an underwater quest (or even a submerged section of dungeon, since when do abandoned dungeons have working sump pumps?) or quest them towards something that's only approachable during the daylight hours. Basically, if she wants to be a vamp, she gets to be a vamp, but she needs to be aware of how much it really truly sucks (ha!) to be one. Hell, during the day/river crossings she's a burden on the party cause they have to carry here around. Also, people aren't nocturnal, they want to be awake during the day and its rough to switch over to a completely night time schedule. Maybe make everyone else fatigued more often because they're violating the heck out of their sleep cycles just so Miss Vampire can stay around.


Can you tell that I have some bias against vampire PCs? NPCs/BBEGs are fine, the ridiculous number of weaknesses makes them easy to deal with, its the flipping army of followers/other undead around them that makes them a problem.

The Glyphstone
2009-01-11, 07:47 PM
Sorry, my only David Bowie exposure is Labyrinth. :/

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-11, 08:07 PM
Edward and company are not vampires.

They're ELVES.

More importantly, they're Christopher Paolini's elves. :smalltongue: