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Meat Shield
2009-01-10, 11:30 PM
OK, let me preface this by "Yes, I know it is not optimal!"

Thank you.

Now, while watching the football game earlier tonight, my buddy and I were discussing an upcoming game he will run with us basically playing monster mercenaries. I had the idea to play a kobold warblade with a size large maul or warmace or something equally ridiculous. My question for you Playgrounders is how do I do it.

I want:
1) to wield a size large maul effectively as a kobold
2) would also like to take the dragon related feats in Races of the Dragon to get the wings so I could fly around wjile wielding said maul - somehow the image of a wrecking ball comes to mind when I see this giant hammer head suspended from a flying kobold shouting "Fore!" :smallbiggrin:

Please give me some ideas on how to do this, thanks!

NPCMook
2009-01-10, 11:33 PM
I believe Mongoose Publishing's "Feats" or "Ultimate Feats" books had a feat called "Giant Weapon" which allowed you to wield a weapon two sizes larger than you with both hands at a -2 penalty to attack

RTGoodman
2009-01-10, 11:37 PM
The main problem is that almost ALL abilities that let you wield bigger weapons specifically DON'T stack with each other. That said, I can only thing of two things that'll let you wield a bigger weapon, and that's the strongarm bracers from MIC and the Monkey Grip feat. I don't think they stack either (both let you wield weapons one size bigger than your ACTUAL size), so you're kinda out of luck.

If you grab the strongarm bracers though (and I think they're only 6,000gp or something like that), using a Medium-sized weapon would still be okay and you'll avoid the -2 penalty to attacks from Monkey Grip. The problem comes when you realize that a -4 Strength REALLY sucks for melee types (unless you use Finesse, which you won't be).

Meat Shield
2009-01-10, 11:40 PM
Further info:

!) I plan on two handing the weapon, no shields for me!
2) What about weapon enhancements that would allow this activity as well?
3) WotC books only please (sorry Mook)

RTGoodman
2009-01-10, 11:53 PM
Well, how good do you want to be at actually hitting things. You can technically wield an oversized weapon without any feats or anything, you just take a -2 penalty per size category. The problem is that it increases the "handedness" of the weapon (light -> one-handed -> two-handed). So, I guess you could wield a Large Mace with a -4 penalty as a two-handed weapon, but that kinda sucks (-4 atk, only 1d8 damage).

Also, there's one more option I remembered, but I'm not sure if it's something you'd be into. If you're allowed stuff from UA, the Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan) gives you "Use oversized weapon (Ex)" as the Titan ability. The Titan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) ability, if read by RAW, will let ANY creature wield a Gargantuan warhammer at no penalty. Hooray for 4d6 base damage for a Kobold! The downside is that, well, you have to imagine how a KOBOLD got some TITAN heritage, and it also requires you to be at least, what, 12th level?

FMArthur
2009-01-11, 12:24 AM
Titan/Dragon heritage probably won't fly.

Delaney Gale
2009-01-11, 02:35 PM
I had the idea to play a kobold warblade with a size large maul or warmace or something equally ridiculous.

There is a way to do this, and yes, it does involve Monkey Grip. My party's gnome barbarian is wielding a greataxe, which I believe is a large weapon. I don't have access to the character sheet atm, but I want to say that was the only feat she has aimed towards it.


I don't think they stack either (both let you wield weapons one size bigger than your ACTUAL size), so you're kinda out of luck.


Oh, that's it- you'll have to wield it two-handed. If you're wielding as a medium creature, you can wield a large weapon two-handed.

hamishspence
2009-01-11, 02:38 PM
all weapons in 3.5 have same size. A greataxe is a "Medium two handed weapon"

in 3.0, all two-handed weapons were Large.

Darrin
2009-01-11, 02:49 PM
I want:
1) to wield a size large maul effectively as a kobold
2) would also like to take the dragon related feats in Races of the Dragon to get the wings so I could fly around wjile wielding said maul - somehow the image of a wrecking ball comes to mind when I see this giant hammer head suspended from a flying kobold shouting "Fore!" :smallbiggrin:


The easiest way is Strongarm Bracers + a size increase, such as Enlarge Person or Expansion.

If you want the kobold to still be small size... that's a bit trickier. Your best bet there is probably just Strongarm Bracers, and just take the -2 penalty for using a large-sized weapon. It'd have to be one-handed for a medium character... so a large-sized Maul would work with EWP. Damage goes up to 2d8, make it out of a Heavy material such as gold or platinum (Magic of Faerun p. 179) and it does 4d6 damage. Hmm. I can't recall, I don't think Monkey Grip will stack with Strongarm Bracers, but if so, then you could get Oversize TWF and dual-wield a pair of large-sized heavy Mauls.

Zeful
2009-01-11, 02:50 PM
all weapons in 3.5 have same size. A greataxe is a "Medium two handed weapon"

in 3.0, all two-handed weapons were Large.

Weapons do have size, is mostly based on the intended wielder's size. A large moringstar does more damage than a small sized morningstar.

monty
2009-01-11, 02:55 PM
all weapons in 3.5 have same size. A greataxe is a "Medium two handed weapon"

in 3.0, all two-handed weapons were Large.

No, a Medium greataxe is a Medium weapon. A Large greataxe is a Large weapon, and does 3d6 damage instead.

Flickerdart
2009-01-11, 04:11 PM
Titan/Dragon heritage probably won't fly.
Sure it will. Half-dragons have wings, don't they?

monty
2009-01-11, 04:17 PM
Sure it will. Half-dragons have wings, don't they?

Not a Small one.

ericgrau
2009-01-11, 06:11 PM
A small size creature may only wield a light large weapon and he must wield it in two hands. He also gets a -4 penalty to AB when wielding the weapon. This isn't just suboptimal, this is suicide. -4 is a lot.

Heliomance
2009-01-11, 06:13 PM
1) Ask your DM to homebrew an Epic feat, "Wield ridiculously oversized weapon".
2) Be dragonwrought.
3) ???
4) Profit!

Tyrmatt
2009-01-11, 06:22 PM
Homebrewed Feat: Dragonclaw Grip
This feat allows you to wield a weapon of up to 2 sizes larger than you as if it was a regular weapon for your size. You cannot trade this for wielding 2 weapons 1 size class larger than yourself without applying the normal penalties. You also acquire a penalty to using size appropriate weapons as your hands are inexperienced with the smaller tools, leading to erratic strikes.
Prereq: Dragon Lineage, Str XX

Something akin to this maybe and have it negate your racial stealth bonus as well. I seem to remember kobolds being quite high in this respect.

RTGoodman
2009-01-11, 06:37 PM
Eh, I don't know Tyrmatt - I was thinking something more along the lines of a non-specific feat. How does this look?


Improved Monkey Grip [General, Fighter]
You're able to wield comedically-large weapons.

Prerequisites: Monkey Grip, BAB +8, Str 17+

Benefit: Your ability to wield large weapons improves. You may wield a weapon one size larger than your actual size with no penalty, or a weapon of two sizes larger than your actual size with a -2 penalty on attack rolls. This does not change how the weapon is wielded - a larger-sized one-handed weapon is still a one-handed weapon, and a larger sized two-handed weapon is still a two-handed weapon.

A human with this feat, for instance, could wield a Large-sized longsword with no penalty on the attack roll in one hand, or a Huge-sized longsword in one hand with a -2 penalty on attacks. He could wield a Large greatsword in two hands with no penalty, or a Huge greatsword in two hands with the -2 penalty on attacks.

The benefits of this feat to not apply to weapons wielded in your off-hand. This ability only stacks with abilities that increase your actual size category (such as the enlarge person spell), not with ones that only let you wield as if you were larger (the Powerful Build racial feature, the strongarm bracers magic items, and so on).

Special: A Fighter may select Improved Monkey Grip as one of his Fighter bonus feats provided he meets all prerequisities.

Thurbane
2009-01-11, 09:02 PM
With EWP you can wield a warmace or maul in one hand. You can wield a one-handed weapon one size category larger than you with 2 hands (at a -2penalty). And Strongarm Bracers allow you to wield a weapon 1 size larger than normal.

By my reckoning, that means a kobold with EWP: Warmace and Strongarm Bracers could wield a large warmace in two hands (again, with a penalty). :smallbiggrin:

...unless I miscalculated somewhere...

FMArthur
2009-01-11, 10:20 PM
You can wield a one-handed weapon one size category larger than you with 2 hands (at a -2penalty).

Hey, does this extend to making light weapons one-handed, or is it just a one-handed -> two-handed thing?

woodenbandman
2009-01-11, 10:32 PM
I was waiting for that trick to come up. Indeed, a light weapon goes to a one-handed weapon, allowing you to power attack with kusari-gamas one size category larger and other fun stuff.

I've always like the Ramhammer. Similar flavor to a ridiculously oversized hammer, but it's got the drawback of not threatening the squares you reach with it, so you'll need to get, like, monk levels or something. Check out the Ramhammer in the Planar Handbook.

RTGoodman
2009-01-11, 10:33 PM
Hey, does this extend to making light weapons one-handed, or is it just a one-handed -> two-handed thing?

Yeah. The rule is that you can wield larger weapons, but you take a -2 penalty per size category and the "handedness" increases by one each time. You could wield a Large dagger as a human with a -2 penalty, but it's a One-Handed (rather than Light) weapon.


Inappropriately Sized Weapons
A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

hamishspence
2009-01-12, 09:34 AM
point was that a Large Greataxe for a Small Creature is a huge jump. Even the epic feat, Wield oversized Weapon, doesn't allow you to wield two-handed weapons more than 1 size bigger than you.

Redcaps are Small creatures with Powerful Build, but as far as I know, that can't be stacked with Wield Oversized Weapon. No Large Greataxes for them.

Meat Shield
2009-01-13, 01:31 PM
Thank you everyone for your input. I actually came up with something for it just now that I want to run by you to see if this works also.

Take the strongarm bracers, so my small kobold now is swinging a medium maul with no penalty. Great. Add mighty wallop (Races of the Dragon) as an enchantment to said maul. So I now have a size Large maul as a size small creature for no penalty, right? I could then stack a Monkey Grip on there too to be silly and get a huge maul, but probably won't.

Now onto the calculation bit: What would a +2 Mighty Walloping Maul cost? I am thinking the same as a +3 weapon. Is that right?

Darrin
2009-01-13, 02:58 PM
I could then stack a Monkey Grip on there too to be silly and get a huge maul, but probably won't.


Don't. Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Strongarm Bracers or Powerful Build. If you want to increase the size further, then try Enlarge Person or Expansion.

Mighty Wallop is a good idea. A command-word activated magic item (standard action to activate for 1 minute) would only cost 1800 GP.

Meat Shield
2009-01-13, 09:21 PM
Don't. Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Strongarm Bracers or Powerful Build. If you want to increase the size further, then try Enlarge Person or Expansion.

Grrrrr, I knew that. My bad.

How much to make the ability 'always on' for the weapon? What about Greater Mighty Wallop, and making that always on? I don't want to waste the action if I don't have to to activate it.

Darrin
2009-01-13, 11:20 PM
How much to make the ability 'always on' for the weapon?


For use activated/continuous, 4000 GP, although most DMs should be very leery of such things.



What about Greater Mighty Wallop, and making that always on? I don't want to waste the action if I don't have to to activate it.

For use activated/continuous, 30000 GP.

Meat Shield
2009-01-21, 01:38 PM
For completeness I thought I would post what I came up with: Trask (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=102336), a kobold with a serious "small man" complex.

Basically I stack strongarm bracers on top of Mighty Whallop on top of Giant's Stance to get size huge maul damage with a size small creature. Hooray 3d8 damage plus martial maneuvers!

Anywho, feel free to take a gander and let me know what you think. I have not completely finished him (picking all maneuvers for example), but I would like to get some feedback.

Notes:
1) we play high power games, so we take 80 points to divide among the abilities before you ask

Shotaro
2009-01-21, 05:18 PM
The way we houserule it where I play is that a Large Dagger (1d6 damage) is the same as a Medium Short Sword (1d6 damage) which is also the same as a Small Longsword (1d6 damage)

So to do what you want to do (as in wield a ridiculously large weapon) A Large sized Club (1d8 damge) is the same as a Small sized Great Club... I am sure if you spoke to your DM you could come to some kind of compromise between flavour and practicality if you want to wield an EVEN larger weapon.

Assuming of course, they agree to this houserule (it does make handling random loot easier)

Starbuck_II
2009-01-21, 06:01 PM
If you were a Gnome or Halfing just buy a +1 Hornblade X

X=weapon
Monkeygrip or Stronghold Bracers stack with Hornblade enhancement says they affect different things.

Hornblade is found in Races of Faerun.

AslanCross
2009-01-21, 06:05 PM
The only way I can think of (and I don't even know if it works) is use Monkey Grip to wield a medium Maul, then use Giant Stance from Tome of Battle. You deal damage as if once size larger. The problem is that the wording is vague for our purposes. From what I can tell, it makes the character deal damage as if larger, and not the weapon. That is:

You are a small character wielding a medium weapon. By taking this stance, you deal damage as a medium character wielding a medium weapon.

I doubt it works.

There's also the problem of getting at least 9 initiator levels to qualify for Giant Stance., especially if you don't want to use ToB classes.

This is really one of those things WOTC seemed to go out of their way to make impossible.

monty
2009-01-21, 06:06 PM
This is really one of those things WOTC seemed to go out of their way to make impossible.

Well, it makes sense, really. There's no even questionably realistic way to wield a weapon of that relative size.

Mr Pants
2009-01-21, 06:10 PM
You could use a Heavy Medium weapon with monkey grip, that'd be effectively large and would cost 2 feats or 1 feat and an item: Monkey Grip/Strongarm Bracers and EWP (Heavy Maul). Here's a link http://realmshelps.dandello.net/stores/weapons.shtml The information for heavy weapons is at the bottom.

Wait, a maul is a one-handed weapon. You could wield a medium one as a two-handed weapon at a -2 penalty and just get some Strongarm Bracers to make it large for 2d8 damage if I calculated correctly.

Edit: Alternatively you could dip in Druid and use Shillegah to make any weapon considered a club deal damage as if it were two sizes larger. Just refluff it so it becomes ridiculous size and you're golden. If you can convince your GM a maul is a club, that is.

I've used all of these methods together on a large creature for a colossal maul, fun times.

AslanCross
2009-01-21, 06:12 PM
Well, it makes sense, really. There's no even questionably realistic way to wield a weapon of that relative size.

That's definitely true. My comment was more in the vein of "they should have done this with other, more game-balance related loopholes," but that's for another flame war thread.

Meat Shield
2009-01-22, 11:17 AM
Replies:

1) ToB is fine - I actually made him as a 12th level warblade

2) I did it with no feats so far because I wanted to go the whole dragonwrought kobold line. Wings and draconic presence coupled with a wrecking ball of a maul on a kobold ftw

3) Link to sheet: Trask (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=102336) if you want to critique