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View Full Version : Using "Heal" for Healing (D&D 3.5)



shadowfox
2009-01-11, 01:00 AM
Alright. I'm planning to start a campaign in a couple weeks, and I hit a bit of a snag. I originally planned for the campaign to consist of 4 PCs, and that they would work it in between themselves on what the party would be. Well, I've been actively working on it for two months now, but the idea in general spawned last spring when I picked up one book: Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells.

Well, my problem isn't with the campaign itself. One of the people that I've been expecting to join, well, isn't. Despite talking about it for a couple of months, sending him many emails, and hearing me talk to other people that I knew were going to join, he only decided to give me an answer maybe last week.

Now, I'm pretty flexible as a DM. I thought that, no matter what classes their characters were, I'd be able to challenge them. Well, I thought wrong. There's no healer. I offered the PCs several choices: we could try doing a 3 person party, I (the DM) could run a PC (I've done it before, and one of the PCs was in that campaign), make the characters gestalt, or find a fourth person. Well, all of them want to run a 3-person party, and two opposed doing gestalt (the third was willing to do it, but otherwise didn't seem to care either way).

They want to do a three-person party, and I'm trying to make concessions for them. However, my campaign takes place in a Medium-Low Magic setting where, although magic is most common in the divine form, it's still not common (in fact, when "cleric" is used by NPC's, it most often means "priest"). So, I had to tackle the healing issue in the best way I could: separate potions from their magical properties. So now, instead of potions being magical, they're alchemy-based; instead of the ability to use Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items based solely on the character's ability to spellcast, it's open to all. This was done to prevent the existence and popularity of potions from going against the established fluff.

But potions are expensive. Well, maybe not for an adventurer, but when they're the primary method of healing HP damage, it's a major investment. So, I decided to come up with something that will save potions for use during battle, something to heal some HP in-between battles: using the Heal skill to actually heal HP damage.

What I came up with was the following (which I'm greatly shortening):
You roll the Heal skill to heal HP damage, and your result will determine how much damage you heal. There are five different "levels" that I developed, reflecting the 5 levels of Cure Wounds spells (Minor, Light, Moderate, Serious, and Critical). The DC starts at 10 (for "Minor Heal"), and each step is an additional 5 to the DC ("Heal Light Wounds" is DC 15, "Heal Moderate Wounds" is DC 20, etc.). The amount of damage they heal is the base damage of the Cure Wounds spell they are related to (2d8 for "Heal Light Wounds"), but get no bonus; in addition, they take either 1 round, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, or 10 minutes to complete, which means it can't be done in the middle of a battle (except "Heal Minor Wounds," which takes a full round action). In addition, I made it so that every attempt added +5 to the DCs for any attempts after, and they stack; however, I made the "counter" reset after every battle. This was done to prevent abuse of the system (you could heal all of your damage with "Heal Minor Wounds" easily, for instance), as well as me noticing the relative ease multiple uses can be.

But now I'm having doubts. I'm considering making it a bit more like when Truenamers cast spells, where every time they use a certain truename spell, the Truespeak DC increases by +2 (only when you succeed does the DC increase; these increases are cumulative), but have it apply until after a full night's rest.

Also, I'm dividing the Healer's Kit into 2 kits: the basic Healer's Kit (20 GP) and Masterwork Healer's Kit (50 GP), which are as different as Thieves' Tools and Masterwork Thieves' Tools (the +2 bonus). Each kit, however, has enough supplies for 10 uses.

Also, the way I made it was that "Heal Minor Wounds" wouldn't stop a creature from bleeding out, as it's essentially putting a band-aid on a wound and kissing it to feel better (I also describe it as "more of convincing the person they're okay rather than actually healing them"), but I do slap on a 10% increase to stop from bleeding out (from 10% to 20%). Since it's literally the only use of my expanded use of Heal that can heal HP damage before a character bleeds out, I was also considering creating a sort of slap-patch that would stop a character from bleeding out.

Um... I know this is probably a lot to say a little, but I unfortunately don't know how to describe my idea without going into the details. Input would be appreciated, as well as constructive criticism.

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-11, 01:15 AM
That sounds like a great idea, and your campaign sounds like one I would really like to play in.

...but I'm not a balance guy.

Seems pretty darned complicated, though. Maybe that's just the lingering effects of prolonged exposure to 4E.

Draz74
2009-01-11, 01:59 AM
I vote the more Truenamer-like version. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to help myself thinking of things like, "Dang, these DCs are getting too high. Let's go pick an easy fight, like with a Kobold scouting party, so I can get these Heal DCs reset."

Other than that ... looks interesting. Playtesting's my only real other suggestion.

shadowfox
2009-01-11, 02:33 AM
I really don't have time to playtest it beforehand, unfortunately. I'm leaning a bit towards the Truenamer-like version now (on my own account, though), but I guess I'll need to pick something and stick with it. They all know I'm trying to work out a system, so I'm sure they'll understand if I say "this IS the playtesting, so don't be surprised if I tweak it."

Unfortunately, the one problem is that the classes of the characters are Binder, Truenamer, and Fighter, and none of them have Heal as a skill. Maybe I should give it to at least one of them as a class skill...

Dr Bwaa
2009-01-11, 02:42 AM
the only thing you have to watch out for is that the characters' healing will be very much like 4E: between battles, you can expect everyone to return to full health through liberal use of the Heal skill. The easiest way to prevent that (if you want to) would obviously be to put a limit on how often someone can be Healed in a certain amount of time. Or, you can just not worry about it and know they'll always be at full health going into battles.

Epic_Wizard
2009-01-11, 02:56 AM
I've gotta say this is a creative and, at least on the face of things, a fairly workable solution to a sticky problem. I definitely think that only a successful check should increase the dice though. You could also go with "you heal points equal to your check -10" which seems like it could probably stack well with the ability of people to heal between battles and taking 20 would give like a 1.5 times bonus but takes like an hour or two.

Keep in mind you can always use the threat or reality of wandering monsters to keep the party from abusing your system and emphasize to the party that you reserve the right to tweak the rules for this if the situation seems to warrant it. I would also suggest giving them items that boost their abilities with the Heal skill as treasure every so often if it looks like they aren't healing enough between battles or they are healing to much and you need to tweak things down but want them to stay balanced.

Oh as for potions I might suggest using some of the rules from (I think) Complete Adventurer regarding things like potion capsules since you don't want them to have to run away from the band of Goblins just so they don't provoke half a dozen AoO's to not die.

Caewil
2009-01-11, 03:05 AM
I'd add a corollary that you can only heal a certain number of HP/day by this method or that the heal skill can only be used a given numer of times on a character to heal HP. Eg. character level/4 times.

That's plenty of heals, but it'll stop them from getting too nuts with the healing.

shadowfox
2009-01-11, 03:13 AM
Wow, more responses... More people are on this late than I thought (I'm in EST, so... it's just after 3 am for me).

I'll certainly "take advantage" (can't think of a better way to put it) of being able to tweak the system.

My primary way of preventing the abuse of the system is having the DCs increase every time, but I'll keep the HP healed equation in mind (result-10); if I every use that, I'll limit uses of the skill to heal HP damage. Heh, wandering monsters... Now I'm reminded of Munchkin... (Seriously, though, it's something I probably wouldn't have ended up doing (I'm too kind of a DM) without it being recommended).

Limitations is probably where I might end up going ultimately, but at the current moment, the PCs are starting off at 3rd level. I'm planning on advancing them quickly to take on the main plot (although not as quickly as I originally planned)... And by quickly, I mean "Alright, you just completed the adventure... level up." (Honestly, I'm starting them off low so I can gauge how well they can perform, and set future encounters accordingly.) But, still, it's something that I really don't think I would've come up with (odd trait that I have).

Thanks for the suggestions so far; more is always nice, and feel free to rip this apart (as long as it's constructive).

CompositeSanta
2009-01-11, 03:37 AM
I think you should change the amount of time it takes to heal according to how much HP damage they have incurred, rather than what level of HP they are trying to heal. It might be best if you limit healing checks to one per person per encounter, to represent that the player in question has been physically treated to the best of the healer's ability, and simply putting another layer of bandages on that won't help. Also perhaps include the logical rule that if the character went uninjured in the last encounter they can not be healed again.

Leper Master
2009-01-11, 03:50 AM
I had a situation like this, 8 players, all became. . .Ninjas.

For my input I say making a crit failure actually hurt the players, (further discouragement for abuse).

Quietus
2009-01-11, 03:54 AM
You could create basically an alchemical version of the Healer's Kit, which makes it so that if you apply them correctly (An application of the Heal skill, likely DC 15), you get an additional multiplier to how much you heal in a given night? I'd probably flavor these as fancy Elven salves of some sort, it seems like the type of thing they'd do, and lends a nice, exotic feel to them that appeals to me on a glandular level.

The Heal skill is already usable to stop people from bleeding out. Let the PCs have the reasonable outcome of their choices - give them a reminder before characters are drawn up (or let them alter their builds before the game starts) that there is no healer. And there will BE... no healer. If they don't take ranks, then if someone drops into the negatives, they most likely *will* die. Personally, I like that, because it creates a more gritty, lethal situation - there is no magic band-aid that makes you live. If you fight to the last hit point, you should be prepared to die. It means that when combat comes up, they need to be smart about it, and if they take too much damage, disengage quickly.

KKL
2009-01-11, 04:21 AM
I had a situation like this, 8 players, all became. . .Ninjas.

For my input I say making a crit failure actually hurt the players, (further discouragement for abuse).

Skills can't critfail. They can however, fail dreamatically.

Also, OP. A good mechanic that you could look into for this purpose would be healing surges from 4e.

Random NPC
2009-01-11, 08:51 AM
Why not the method provided by Eberron for the Warforged?

Since Warforged don't heal over night they can use Craft (armor smithing/sculpture/something) to repair themselves. This action lasts 8 hours and after that you repair damage equal to the craft check - 15.

With that in mind, you can modify the skill Heal a bit here and there and move the damage healed as you wish.

Say, you can heal damage equal to the Heal check - 15. Set a specific time (1 hour? 2?) and go to town. As for healing in battle, you can gain temporary hit points equal to your Heal check - 15 in one full round action. This lets the characters function in battle for some time but they can't expect to heal themselves up to full like this. Taking ten is impossible in battle

With the given formula, a character with full ranks, a +2 healing kit and no wisdom bonus can heal 1 damage per character level by taking 10.

only1doug
2009-01-11, 09:02 AM
As a complete alternative to the Heal system you have proposed may i suggest the vitality / wounds points variant system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm) which allows a much faster natural healing rate from minor injuries (1vp / level / hr)

Iku Rex
2009-01-11, 09:11 AM
You worry too much about healing. Our group often ends up without a healer. It's no big deal. Just get the party a few wands of cure light wounds. Maybe throw in some healing belts (MIC).

mostlyharmful
2009-01-11, 09:15 AM
Isn't there a vestige the binder can grab to do HP recovery? I haven't read ToM for a while but I thought there was, anyway if there isn't just make one up. Or get hold of a lot of wands of lesser vigor and belts of healing.

Healer isn't really a role, it's just an out of combat resource 99 times out of 100 so try running without it first off and see how your players handle the parties need for bandaids... could well be not an actual problem, in fact the last few times I've run such a game it turns out to be a whole lot of fun trying to fill the role with jeryrigged stuff and working out exactly what needs a caster and what can be bodged.

Most Clerics don't prepare status condition remedies anyway so why not get one of the players with UMD to have a go with the Scroll the party would be using anyway? or NPC casting, or bound outsiders, or just use really good tactics to not get suckinated....

Quietus
2009-01-11, 09:56 AM
You worry too much about healing. Our group often ends up without a healer. It's no big deal. Just get the party a few wands of cure light wounds. Maybe throw in some healing belts (MIC).

Yeah, that'll go over well in a setting where magic is supposed to be rare....

Clementx
2009-01-11, 10:11 AM
My suggestions-
-Keep the DCs and recovery timers simple. You aren't running Trauma Center, and healing up is already boring. Being scared of dying is fun. Taking five minutes of checks to figure out that you aren't, isn't.
-Remove the limit/cost on healing kits, since they are being relied on completely. They weight and cost much more than wands. You could just make each kit a mundane reskinning of a CLW wand (15gp per "cast", 50 uses, 1lb) requiring Heal checks. It maintains the lower-magic setting but doesn't bend the core assumptions of DnD.

mostlyharmful
2009-01-11, 10:21 AM
Yeah, that'll go over well in a setting where magic is supposed to be rare....

This is also a setting where 1 in 4 adventurers are a glorified bandaid... and this new system is being worked out so everyone can essentially "do healing magic" so no-one has to be the boring one. making it 1 adventurer in 1 that does this. Which is pretty much the point of the statement above.

Iku Rex
2009-01-11, 11:53 AM
Yeah, that'll go over well in a setting where magic is supposed to be rare....He said "Medium-Low Magic". The existence of a few wands with 1st level spells does not make a setting "high magic".

Morandir Nailo
2009-01-11, 05:57 PM
My question here is, do you see it as necessary that healing have a cost, either in time, skill points, or GP? Would it be detrimental to the feel of your game if players simply healed faster on their own?

To me, it seems that the best solution is to stay away from more rules; adding extra fiddly bits to an already crunch-heavy system to cover something that happens mostly outside of combat seems clumsy.

Instead, one idea that I've seen that might work pretty well is that after a combat, PCs regain half the HP they lost during that fight. This way they can keep going longer without magical healing, but they still get worn down over time and will need to rest and recover eventually. Furthermore, it makes the game a bit more gritty, because it means that there's no in-combat healing - PCs who are down on their luck will have to decide whether or not it's worth it to keep on fighting, or just run away.

However you could still add healing kits, which heal (insert appropriate number here) HP with a successful DC 15 Heal check but can only be used 1/day, like in Star Wars RCR. This could provide the occasional in-combat boost.

Vitality/wounds (with class defense bonus and armor as DR) works as well - though you have to keep in mind that one good crit can take out any character, which may or may not fit with your gaming style (I kinda like it myself).

Mor

Rei_Jin
2009-01-11, 06:29 PM
Okay, both the Binder and the Truenamer have class abilities they can use to heal. The Binder can choose to Bind Buer (Level 4 Vestige) once he gets to level 7 and the Truenamer can learn the Word of Nurturing Recitations to give his allies Fast Healing, which will heal them quite well out of battle. As a last ditch thing for the Fighter, he could take the Second Wind feat from the Miniatures Handbook, it will allow him, once per day, to heal a number of hitpoints equal to his Consitution Modifier.

Of course, if you want to use your alternate Heal skill, I'd recommend the following.




Heal(Wis): Alternate Use

You may make a Heal check to heal a number of hitpoints equal to the patients level + Constitution Modifier. The DC for this check is 15, and it takes 1 full hour of rest for the healing to occur. Each attempted use on a patient after the first attempt each day increases the DC by 5. This resets to the base value after they have a good nights sleep.

Making a Heal check on yourself is more difficult than making it on someone else, and the DC increases by 5

Prometheus
2009-01-11, 07:33 PM
Here's an idea: None of these players are healers, so don't make them be. I can think of two alternatives.

1) Make it easier to prevent damage. Make all creatures have a little bit more hit points (including PCs and NPCs) so that while fights won't change the balance between who wins, heavily wounded character will be able to take themselves away from the fight before it gets too serious. More importantly, give the PCs the ability to take blows for each other, draw monsters to them, or prevent monsters from passing by them. While their are abilities that do this in the game, there are notoriously not enough of them and you need to either make them obviously available or add them yourself.

2) Damage is separated into two portions: Shock and Harm. Both initially deal damage, but shock damage rapidly heals (at a rate based on Constitution, total hp, and/or total shock damage) and Harm does not. Heal checks can heal damage, but can only heal shock damage quick enough for the battle to matter. That way, PCs that have a lot of shock can take themselves out and then return to the fight, or can find themselves knocked unconscious early but wake up when the fight is really over (you'd probably want Shock damage to actually be able to kill them, but for them to have to go deeper into negative hit points to really be dead). If you'd really like to get tactical with it, change up the Shock-Harm ratio in different weapons and spells. Perhaps bludgeoning weapons are now 100% Shock and 25% Harm whereas Slashing weapons are 10% Shock 80% Harm - Electricity damage is 150% Shock and Acid damage is 75% Harm. Subdual damage, then, could be damage that is just Shock damage.

Dacia Brabant
2009-01-11, 09:47 PM
I concur with the suggestion to import the Healing Surge system from 4th Edition. That'll give you an "everyone can heal themselves" mechanic and a way to keep it from getting out of control due to its limited capabilites and usages per encounter/per day.

Kaiyanwang
2009-01-12, 03:56 AM
Could be the healer an expert in herbalism? Craft (herb remedies) or Profession (herbalist).

In unapproachable east there is an healing herb somewere, you could take inspiration from there.

Or simply homebrew herbs having the effectof remove paralysis, healing spells, panacea, remove disease, remove poison. A la Resident Evil, we could say.


Another idea: a guardian spirit with healing powers (see DMG II there should be something useful there).