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View Full Version : [3.5]Immune to, EVERYTHING?!



Eloel
2009-01-12, 09:35 AM
I was thinking of making an unkillable monster, and I came across the 'troll' entry in MM.
All damage dealt to a Troll is non-lethal, unless it's acid or fire. If we get the Saint template on the Troll (yep, this troll is a good one), for +2 LA, he's now immune to acid. Doing the Ritual of Elements, we gain him the Immunity to Fire, for +1 LA, and some gold and XP. We then add the Half-Golem template, and fail a will save. Now he's immune to nonlethal damage.

Now, how can ANYTHING damage this construct? It's +8 LA and 6 racial HD

The Glyphstone
2009-01-12, 09:41 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587

For your perusal and joy/terror.

EDIT: And with that example, you've lost your Regeneration upon becoming a Construct and being stripped of your CON score, so Fire or Acid away.

EDIT2: Contingent Protection From Ninjas was successful!

JeminiZero
2009-01-12, 09:42 AM
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587) may interest you.

You don't want him to fail the ritual, as that will lose his Con. Creatures without Con cannot benefit from regeneration (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Regeneration).

Additionally, Construct type rendes you vulnerable to Slaying Arrows (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Slaying_Arrow) and Mace of Smiting (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mace_of_Smiting).

newbDM
2009-01-12, 09:44 AM
Seen this one before.

I believe the trick is to use a special type of fire damage. I believe it's abyssal fire or something.


Also, there really is not supposed to be an answer to this. The game mechanics are not supposed to have people/players abusing little glitches like. Too many people forget that common sense is an important part of the game, and some things should not be allowed.


edit:
My bad. Guess I was proven wrong by the ninjas.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-12, 09:48 AM
Seen this one before.

I believe the trick is to use a special type of fire damage. I believe it's abyssal fire or something.


Also, there really is not supposed to be an answer to this. The game mechanics are not supposed to have people/players abusing little glitches like. Too many people forget that common sense is an important part of the game, and some things should not be allowed.

Hellfire Warlock will punch through. There's also a feat which lets some fire damage bypass normal immunity/resistance, but you have to be an Evoker.

Flame Strike will also get half of it through.

TheCountAlucard
2009-01-12, 09:51 AM
I believe it's abyssal fire or something.

Hellfire, actually. :smallsmile: Thank you, Fiendish Codex II. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I'll get you, ShneekeyTheLost! You and your little ninja friends! :smalltongue:

kamikasei
2009-01-12, 09:53 AM
Immune to everything? There are more deleterious effects in Dungeons and Dragons, ozgun92, than are dream't of in your optimization. You have to protect not just against weapons and energy damage but against death effects, wishes, hellfire, uttercold, level drain, ability drain/damage, ...

That said, check out the Ikea Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160).

edit: Personally I like the idea of a half-fiend, half-black-dragon troll. Flight, immunity to acid and resistance to fire, boosted intelligence, breath weapon and SLAs. You might want to make it a half-red-dragon for immunity to fire and resistance to acid instead, or half-red-half-black and skip the fiend for a dumber but more resistant creature. Not properly immune to everything, but a lot tougher than a regular troll.

Harperfan7
2009-01-12, 10:26 AM
"a half-fiend, half-black-dragon troll"

1/2 fiend + 1/2 dragon

where is there room for being a troll?

Behold_the_Void
2009-01-12, 10:42 AM
"a half-fiend, half-black-dragon troll"

1/2 fiend + 1/2 dragon

where is there room for being a troll?

Mortal man is not meant to know.

hamishspence
2009-01-12, 10:46 AM
when a half-fiend troll and a half-dragon troll, pair, the offspring is half-fiend half-dragon troll. Technically quarter-quarter, but that might be enough for full traits.

Cross that with a troll though, and should result in Fiendish Draconic troll.

(fiendish can be used to repesent diluted blood, as well as mortal natives of lower planes, by MMV)

kamikasei
2009-01-12, 11:00 AM
"a half-fiend, half-black-dragon troll"

1/2 fiend + 1/2 dragon

where is there room for being a troll?

Both half-fiend and half-dragon are far, far too broadly applicable (even to creatures that don't actually reproduce sexually) to actually mean that one of your parents was a fiend and/or dragon. Sure, they can mean that. But maybe one of your parents was a fiendish dragon, or you were born via a ritual involving the blood of a dragon or the heart of a fiend, or...

More generally, you can legally apply either template to the output of the other.

newbDM
2009-01-12, 11:05 AM
Both half-fiend and half-dragon are far, far too broadly applicable (even to creatures that don't actually reproduce sexually) to actually mean that one of your parents was a fiend and/or dragon. Sure, they can mean that. But maybe one of your parents was a fiendish dragon, or you were born via a ritual involving the blood of a dragon or the heart of a fiend, or...

More generally, you can legally apply either template to the output of the other.

Although, some templates are not allowed to stack.

However, WotC did a nice little article about "Things that shouldn't be". It has applying the half-dragon template to a full dragon, and applying both the celestial and fiendish template into a single creature.

kamikasei
2009-01-12, 11:17 AM
However, WotC did a nice little article about "Things that shouldn't be". It has applying the half-dragon template to a full dragon, and applying both the celestial and fiendish template into a single creature.

But a half-dragon dragon makes perfect sense! Conceptually. Mechanically, it means you're a full, say, red dragon with a smattering of white dragon on top, rather than half-and-half. Uhm... hybrid vigor?

newbDM
2009-01-12, 11:28 AM
But a half-dragon dragon makes perfect sense! Conceptually. Mechanically, it means you're a full, say, red dragon with a smattering of white dragon on top, rather than half-and-half. Uhm... hybrid vigor?

I agree 100%. However, many people seem to think of it as blasphemy. And WotC keeps insisting that they are too "proud" and divided that it is never likely to happen.


However, I have gone as far as making Baphamut and Tiamat's love child, who a is a deity of neutrality and unity (in the sense of not caring about and forgetting/avoiding conflicts that separate individuals).

LibraryOgre
2009-01-12, 11:37 AM
"a half-fiend, half-black-dragon troll"

1/2 fiend + 1/2 dragon

where is there room for being a troll?

It was a fiendish black dragon and a troll. Or a fiendish troll and a black dragon. Or a fiend and trollish black dragon. Or a fiend and a black dragonish-troll.

monty
2009-01-12, 11:38 AM
applying both the celestial and fiendish template into a single creature.

I did that once, although it was Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend. Weak as hell from the LA, but it was fun to roleplay.

Dilvish
2009-01-12, 11:48 AM
I agree 100%. However, many people seem to think of it as blasphemy. And WotC keeps insisting that they are too "proud" and divided that it is never likely to happen.


However, I have gone as far as making Baphamut and Tiamat's love child, who a is a deity of neutrality and unity (in the sense of not caring about and forgetting/avoiding conflicts that separate individuals).


That must have been an interesting night at the tavern. Though I do wonder what other deities have gotten together and would rather not have anyone know about it.

Cleric of St. Cuthburt in communion with the Big Guy. "Yes, my faithful disciple, the answer you seek is in the form of a question, whose answer is.. Lloth baby, is that you? I'm in the hot tub. Now where was I? Oh yes, my faithful disci... Hmm, another case of protective amnesia. Those mortal brains are fragile things."

Dilvish
2009-01-12, 11:51 AM
when a half-fiend troll and a half-dragon troll, pair, the offspring is half-fiend half-dragon troll. Technically quarter-quarter, but that might be enough for full traits.

Cross that with a troll though, and should result in Fiendish Draconic troll.

(fiendish can be used to repesent diluted blood, as well as mortal natives of lower planes, by MMV)

I ran across something like that in a Living Greyhawk (Living Powergamer it became) module, where the big bad was a half red dragon troll. Nasty, especially since he was invisible due to dust of disappearance.

Shosuro Ishii
2009-01-12, 08:04 PM
Immunity to damage in 3.5 is a slight step above being immune to the effects of heavy winds.

Its a pretty weak ability that is very, very easy to work around.

newbDM
2009-01-12, 08:20 PM
That must have been an interesting night at the tavern.

Oops. I need to stop going on forums when I am tired.

I meant Tiamat and Bahamut's child.

And how I described it is was to play on the fact that they were originally created to mate and produce the "perfect dragon". So they are in fact a perfect match for each other, if it wasn't for the bitter hatred. So basically, every few decades/centuries/whatever they'll end one of their epic, worlds shattering, battles in a sort of Slap Slap Kiss (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlapSlapKiss), which then leads to a panning-out scene depicting Mount Celestia in all it's glory while cheesey jazz music playing in the background.




Though I do wonder what other deities have gotten together and would rather not have anyone know about it.

Cleric of St. Cuthburt in communion with the Big Guy. "Yes, my faithful disciple, the answer you seek is in the form of a question, whose answer is.. Lloth baby, is that you? I'm in the hot tub. Now where was I? Oh yes, my faithful disci... Hmm, another case of protective amnesia. Those mortal brains are fragile things."

http://forums.gleemax.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif

hamishspence
2009-01-13, 09:19 AM
I seem to recall Wizards or TSR having unusual pairings. A dragon of Myth Drannor- part red, part blue, redeemed.

4th ed Draconomicon suggests chromatics do sometimes hybridize, stats are one or the other, looks vary across the spectrum. Polychromatic Bloodline is another way or doing a hybrid- Red with some of rules traits of Blue, say, rather than Red rules, some physical looks of Blue (horn, scales)

lisiecki
2009-01-13, 09:44 AM
"a half-fiend, half-black-dragon troll"

1/2 fiend + 1/2 dragon

where is there room for being a troll?

There's always room for a troll
All love is beautiful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18TLHhhHZCA

AmberVael
2009-01-13, 09:48 AM
I agree 100%. However, many people seem to think of it as blasphemy. And WotC keeps insisting that they are too "proud" and divided that it is never likely to happen.

...
So dragons are too proud to mate with their own kind?
This explains so much! :smallwink:

BobVosh
2009-01-13, 10:06 AM
...
So dragons are too proud to mate with their own kind?
This explains so much! :smallwink:

ROFL

No, I don't think I want another charisma 36 being over there. Now, if you don't mind, I'm off to test Half-Dragon Skunks.

Also it is humourous to think of a HalfDragon-Dragon by fact that one is shaped, another comes up shape and they do the nasty. (which would be disgusting beyond reason if they knew the other was actually a dragon)

newbDM
2009-01-13, 10:27 AM
ROFL

No, I don't think I want another charisma 36 being over there. Now, if you don't mind, I'm off to test Half-Dragon Skunks.

Also it is humourous to think of a HalfDragon-Dragon by fact that one is shaped, another comes up shape and they do the nasty. (which would be disgusting beyond reason if they knew the other was actually a dragon)

LoL. :smallbiggrin:

Funny, I have been toying around with a pair of NPCs just like that.

Imagine an elf man and a human female hook up at a tavern one evening.

Unfortunately for the elf male, the human girl approaches him some months later PO'd saying she's knocked up, then turns into a scary huge white dragon, who probably wants to bite his head off.

Unfortunately for the white dragon female, the elf man reveals himself to be a huge copper dragon.

So follows a few years of the vicious hot tempered white screaming at the joke cracking copper to shut up and fetch her some pickled dwarf feet with ketchup, and him dogging tossed treasure as he exists the cave...


Not 100% sure how I would get PC's involved in this, though. Maybe the copper hires/forces/tricks the PCs to get him some very rare and hard to get food items? Although, would PCs pick up a job offer to retrieve hellcow meat from Baator?!

kentma57
2009-01-25, 06:10 PM
Can you tell me where to find Ritual of Elements?

Alleine
2009-01-25, 06:18 PM
Can you tell me where to find Ritual of Elements?

Savage Species Pg 148

Keld Denar
2009-01-25, 08:12 PM
LoL. :smallbiggrin:

So follows a few years of the vicious hot tempered white screaming at the joke cracking copper to shut up and fetch her some pickled dwarf feet with ketchup, and him dogging tossed treasure as he exists the cave...

And thus, a Sitcom was born. But what do we name it? Everyone Loves Issenthunulasusfusust? Dang dragon names are too hard to pronounce.

Thane of Fife
2009-01-25, 09:41 PM
And thus, a Sitcom was born. But what do we name it? Everyone Loves Issenthunulasusfusust? Dang dragon names are too hard to pronounce.

"He's a copper dragon vagrant with a thing for elf babes and a mysterious suitcase handcuffed to his arm. She's a kinky ice breather from the frozen north fleeing from the ghost of Elvis. They fight crime!

Olo Demonsbane
2009-01-25, 10:41 PM
I made a similar trollish thing recently. A Acidborn Lavaborn Death Knight Troll of Legend. The Legendary template makes all directly targeted spells rebound against their caster. I called him the Invincable Troll and had the characters try to fight him at one point. Man, the look on their faces when they realized that they could do absolutly nothing to it was pretty priceless.

Fixer
2009-01-26, 08:03 AM
I made a similar trollish thing recently. A Acidborn Lavaborn Death Knight Troll of Legend. The Legendary template makes all directly targeted spells rebound against their caster. I called him the Invincable Troll and had the characters try to fight him at one point. Man, the look on their faces when they realized that they could do absolutly nothing to it was pretty priceless.
Grapple, pin, chain, encase in stone, drop into the deep ocean. Still counts as a defeat.

Wait, wouldn't the Death Knight make it an undead? That would cost it its regen.

Paul H
2009-01-26, 09:46 AM
Hi

Sounds similar to my idea of a Tank - Druid 7/Master Many Forms 2. (In Troll form).

There's a 4th lvl spell in SC that allows to to gain the extraordinary abilities of creature you wildshape into, so Regen & Rend. Then just cast appropriate resist element spells, plus Vigor. Now all damage is non-lethal, and you've got Regen & Fast Heal to get rid of that. (OK - some spells like Flamestrike are part Divine, so no resistance).

Add Shilelagh to a Large Club
Attack: +13/+8
Dam: 3D6+7 (Magical, Bludgeoning)

All this with No Templates, No LA!

Of course - characters that can't be detected when they attack tend to be even stronger, since the options for retribution are far between.....

Cheers
Paul H