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View Full Version : [3.5] Need ideas/advice for a bluffomancer please!



newbDM
2009-01-12, 11:23 AM
So I might just be getting into a new group (thank you guys for the help there!), and I have been greenlit for a psion who specializes in being "social".

We are starting at lv.1, so I can do much at the moment, but I want to plan ahead for this one and do him right.

Anyone know what I should do to make a bluffomancer?

I am thinking telepath at the moment, and Skill Focus: (Bluff) as a starter, but no clue where to go from there.

Also, we are apparently starting half-way between 1st and 2nd level:


We'd be starting at 1st level, specifically 1/2 way between 1st and 2nd level, so 500XP and 450GP. You may spend up to 100XP on crafting before the adventure starts.

I am more than fine taking crafting feats, since I enjoy the crafting and bazaarering part of D&D, and it so rare to find a DM who actually encourages it!

Plus, I guess the extra gp is a good thing?



As always, thank you in advance for any help!

kamikasei
2009-01-12, 11:43 AM
Do you want him to be good at bluffing, good at making friends, good at getting people to do what he wants, ...?

Empathy gets you an augmentable bonus to bluff (and other skills) versus your target. Read thoughts and mind probe can let you learn things only they know, to convince the guard that you know the password, etc. False sensory input has obvious utility for bluffing. Then if you want to get nastier there are options like psionic charm, psionic dominate and psionic modify memory.

Iku Rex
2009-01-12, 11:43 AM
Conceal thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/concealThoughts.htm) is a great help. (+10 bonus to bluff against sense motive).

Empathy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathy.htm) isn't as good (+2 bonus on bluff), but could be useful anyway.

Attraction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/attraction.htm), distract (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/distract.htm) and telempathic projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telempathicProjection.htm) all help in social situations if the target fails his save. (If he doesn't you may be attacked on the spot.)

The Psicrystal Affinity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psicrystalAffinity) feat (liar) gets you a +3 bonus on bluff checks.

Person_Man
2009-01-12, 12:14 PM
A 1 level dip into Tattooed Monk gets a +10 untyped bonus to Bluff, and immunity to discern alignment, lies, etc.

A 1 level dip into Marshal gets you your Cha bonus to all Cha checks (in addition to your normal Cha bonus). You also get Skill Focus (Diplomacy) for free.

A 1 level dip into Warlock gets you a +6 to several social Skills. I forget which Invocation it is.

newbDM
2009-01-12, 04:41 PM
Do you want him to be good at bluffing, good at making friends, good at getting people to do what he wants, ...?

Well, this is him:


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/6d18c515.png




Empathy gets you an augmentable bonus to bluff (and other skills) versus your target.



Empathy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathy.htm) isn't as good (+2 bonus on bluff), but could be useful anyway.

OK, so Empathy is a must.



Read thoughts and mind probe can let you learn things only they know, to convince the guard that you know the password, etc.

I love that idea!

I am ashamed I never thought to use said power that way. :smallfrown:



False sensory input has obvious utility for bluffing.

Another good idea.


] Then if you want to get nastier there are options like psionic charm, psionic dominate and psionic modify memory.

I love those powers as it is, but now I get to use them for more than meat shields. :smallbiggrin:




Conceal thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/concealThoughts.htm) is a great help. (+10 bonus to bluff against sense motive).

A question about it's working please.

Since the Bluff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/bluff.htm) skill reads:

Check

A Bluff check is opposed by the targetís Sense Motive check. See the accompanying table for examples of different kinds of bluffs and the modifier to the targetís Sense Motive check for each one.

And Conceal Thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/concealThoughts.htm) reads:

You protect the subjectís thoughts from analysis. While the duration lasts, the subject gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Bluff checks against those attempting to discern its true intentions with Sense Motive.......

Does that mean you always get the +10 bonus? If that, what am I missing, and when would it not apply?



if[/U] the target fails his save. (If he doesn't you may be attacked on the spot.)

OK, I believe all these suggestions fill up four of my five maximum power options for lv.1 powers (from levels 1-2). I guess that leaves me with a single slot for an offensive or defensive power?




Wow. I had completely forgotten that a psiocrystal gave you a bonus to skills.

Is it just me, or is a psion actually a good class for this? I was thinking it wasn't, due to the limited skill points.



[QUOTE=Person_Man;5629661]A 1 level dip into Tattooed Monk gets a +10 untyped bonus to Bluff, and immunity to discern alignment, lies, etc.

A 1 level dip into Marshal gets you your Cha bonus to all Cha checks (in addition to your normal Cha bonus). You also get Skill Focus (Diplomacy) for free.

A 1 level dip into Warlock gets you a +6 to several social Skills. I forget which Invocation it is.

Thanks, but I do not believe in "level dipping". I just don't like it. It is completely powergaming, and it does not make sense to me from a role-playing prospective.


I was planning on going Exempler for my PrC, though. Mostly so I can use Bluff as Diplomacy. :smallbiggrin:

However, does anyone know a way of getting that Exempler before 10th level? It says I need 13 ranks in one skill, so I would need to be level 10 I believe? Or does having a 13+ total modifier count? If not, is there any way of getting around this (like with Skill Focus)?



Also, thank you all for the help so far!

Draz74
2009-01-12, 05:19 PM
A 1 level dip into Warlock gets you a +6 to several social Skills. I forget which Invocation it is.

Beguiling Influence. Dipping Dragonfire Adept works, too. And the skills are Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the grandaddy of all Bluffomancer tactics yet: Glibness! If you are psionic and can't actually cast Glibness, better start saving up money and UMD ranks so you can buy an Eternal Wand (Glibness).

Also, you definitely want the skill trick (from CScoundrel) Social Recovery. Lets you use Bluff as Diplomacy 1/encounter before you can get into Exemplar. (Which is indeed impossible to qualify for before Level 10. Skill rank requirements for PrCs can't be cheated in any way, AFAIK.)

Tacoma
2009-01-12, 05:26 PM
Convince the DM that you can use your disguise skills to make a costume that will give you a "masterwork tools" bonus of +2 to Bluff or Diplomacy or Intimidate. You have to switch the clothes out. The skill for disguise? Bluff of course ;)

In case that suggestion was completely pointless, if your DM said you had time to spend 100 XP crafting, then you had time to spend to craft things otherwise right? Pick up a couple ranks in Craft: Carving. So much goodness. Just whittle while you're on the road. In camp, on breaks, whenever. If the party has a wagon or there's an ocean voyage you can put in a full day's work. But you're constantly rolling for money even when the party is just traveling from the town to the dungeon. Even though it's not much money, the fact that you're continually getting richer is delicious.

newbDM
2009-01-12, 05:51 PM
Beguiling Influence. Dipping Dragonfire Adept works, too. And the skills are Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the grandaddy of all Bluffomancer tactics yet: Glibness! If you are psionic and can't actually cast Glibness, better start saving up money and UMD ranks so you can buy an Eternal Wand (Glibness).

Since I am not a magic player, I did not know about that spell. It is perfect for my needs.

I am not very good with making magic items yet, so does anyone know what kind of continuous, use activated, magic that would make? I mean, would it be a ring, wondrous item, or something else? Also, what body slot would this ability be (If I remember correctly, the body slot description does not mention where skill bonuses should go)?

Draz74
2009-01-12, 06:09 PM
If I were your DM, I wouldn't allow an item of Glibness at all. Custom item rules are broken, especially with some spells, and this is one of them.

But I'd say a Ring, if anything. Or, since it's an interaction effect, Face or Head would be appropriate to.

More tips, if Magic of Incarnum is an allowed source:

Shape Soulmeld (Lamia Belt) is a feat that will let you every day make yourself a ghostly "item" that gives +4 to Bluff and Hide (competence). This is probably better than Skill Focus (bluff), even though it can be dispelled and doesn't stack with other competence bonuses.

At higher levels, you can improve this bonus by another 4 by taking the Bonus Essentia feat. Eventually, this will get your bonus up to +8 (more if you figure out other ways to gain essentia, such as spending more feats or picking Azurin as your race).

EDIT: Hmmm. Shape Soulmeld (Silvertongue Mask) instead. Less of a bonus, by -2, but the bonus is Insight instead of Competence. (And the companion skill is Diplomacy instead of Hide.)

newbDM
2009-01-12, 08:03 PM
If I were your DM, I wouldn't allow an item of Glibness at all. Custom item rules are broken, especially with some spells, and this is one of them.

But I'd say a Ring, if anything. Or, since it's an interaction effect, Face or Head would be appropriate to.

More tips, if Magic of Incarnum is an allowed source:

Shape Soulmeld (Lamia Belt) is a feat that will let you every day make yourself a ghostly "item" that gives +4 to Bluff and Hide (competence). This is probably better than Skill Focus (bluff), even though it can be dispelled and doesn't stack with other competence bonuses.

At higher levels, you can improve this bonus by another 4 by taking the Bonus Essentia feat. Eventually, this will get your bonus up to +8 (more if you figure out other ways to gain essentia, such as spending more feats or picking Azurin as your race).

EDIT: Hmmm. Shape Soulmeld (Silvertongue Mask) instead. Less of a bonus, by -2, but the bonus is Insight instead of Competence. (And the companion skill is Diplomacy instead of Hide.)


Well, I did the math and a continuous/use activated item of Glibness is 63,000gp. (3 [spell level] x 7 [level 7 bard] x 2,000gp) x 1.5.

While I believe am eternal wand of Glibness costs 10,900gp. I am not 100% sure about this, because a bard needs to me lv.7 to cast a lv.3 spell, but the MIC does not say what to do in said case.

Anyway, considering that I probably won't be bluffing an important bluff more than twice a day, wouldn't you say the the wand would be more broken?

Iku Rex
2009-01-12, 08:23 PM
Well, I did the math and a continuous/use activated item of Glibness is 63,000gp. (3 [spell level] x 7 [level 7 bard] x 2,000gp) x 1.5.No.

An item that improves a skill costs [Bonus squared ◊ 100 gp] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm). If the DM allows it. That's 30*30*100 = 90 000 gp for a +30 bonus item.

There are existing items available though, like the circlet of persuasion (DMG, 4500, +3) , mask of lies (MIC, 4500, +5) or choker of eloquence (CAdv, 6000 or 24000, +5 or +10). (They all grant more than a simple bluff bonus, if you're wondering about the pricing.)

newbDM
2009-01-17, 10:58 AM
I just want to say thanks for the help.

Managed to get it to +19 at level one, and the results were hysterical.

In the first game my character was running late, so the DM introduced him later on as a prisoner of the kobolds and their gnoll "boss" who were attacking the noble's keep we were at. I managed to charm the gnoll to let me out, but then the DM decided to have fun by the gnoll not wanting to let me walk away to "defend his buddy", while holding him him in a neck hold saying "Don't worry, me keep you safe". The party's dread necromancer then caused fear on the gnoll, causing it to flee. After amazingly succeeding at a grapple check to not be dragged along by the gnoll, I succeeded at my first bluff check of the game (got a 30 total) to convince the kobolds that "The boss left me in charge". Sadly the other PCs did not let me keep them as pets, though.


Again, thanks!


edit:
Oh, and apparently I have been granted the role of crafter in the party
(which I am extremely happy about!), so I will be able to make these items myself, and probably for less.