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View Full Version : [3.5] How to build Captain America



Rei_Jin
2009-01-12, 11:15 PM
I've been toying with this build for a while now, and I'd like to throw it out there to be evaluated by the Playground in general. The idea came from the Shield Sling feat in the PHBII, and I wanted to see if such a character was viable.

Turns out that it is.

Captain America (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=102400)

Notes:
1. I used a 36 point buy
2. He has DMG wealth +10% for his level. A little high, but he is a super hero
3. His height, weight, hair colour, and eye colour, are all taken from the Marvel website. I researched there and his Wikipedia entry to try and build the character accurately
4. This is the first Initiator that I've ever built, so if I've done something wrong with the maneuvers and stances, let me know. The build goes 5/10/5 to get the most out of his high end manuevers and stances

Now, as an Australian I'm not horribly familiar with the exploits and capabilities of Captain America, so if there's anything I've missed that he should be able to do, please let me know and I'll do my best to put it in.

So, thoughts? Ideas? Is this right, is there a better way of doing it? Do you like it?

elliott20
2009-01-12, 11:28 PM
There has already been a thread about it Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5555445). So you can use that to start.

There's also another one on gleemax here (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-749967)

Rei_Jin
2009-01-13, 12:01 AM
Well, neither of those threads use or recommend the build I've put forward, or come close to the level of detail that I've put in.

I'd appreciate something a little more constructive than "Someone else has already done it, and they did it differently". If you want to say that, at least let me know why what they did is better or worse, and what you would recommend.

elliott20
2009-01-13, 01:29 AM
fair enough.

I'm not a good optimizer so I'll leave that to other guys here. I will simply offer my opinion on your cap stats.

For one, Cap's con score is supposed to be much higher. Allegedly he's immune to many many diseases and has much better resistance to intoxication more than usual. So, I would say you need to up his CON score a bit. I wouldn't go as far as to say he should take great fortitude or some such since it's such a suboptimal choice of a feat, but you see what I'm saying.

If possible, you should also give him higher CHA and higher INT. He has always been filling the commander role on the battlefield and serves as the leader in just about every team he goes on.

Now, all of this moving points away from the STR score might start to hurt a bit, so feel free to also hand him manuals of str, con, dex, etc to emulate the super soldier serum effect.

Granted, his leadership skills this could simply be the result of his training and developed senses, so I guess if you're really crunched for points, you can always just keep it the way you have it now, and justify it all with diplomacy rolls. I'm not sure what options you'd have for emulating the battalion master role other than deviating from your existing build, so you might just have to shore that up with player RPing. Or, you can always move some of his skill points to knowledge (Military)

Other than military strategy he also has some knowledge regarding demolition, piloting, and a bit of espionage knowledge. Though, I wouldn't say he's maxed out on all of those. He might have say, a 5 ranks in it at best.

If possible, I would add in snap kick in there. It gives him an extra unarmed attack whenever he makes an unarmed strike, which makes him that much more potent. Though, I'm not sure where else you can squeeze out that feat. Maybe drop knockdown if you're not too attached to it.

Paramour Pink
2009-01-13, 01:36 AM
I don't read comic books, but if Captain America embodies...well, America, and is Lawful Good in your sheet, it might make sense to give him two paladin levels. That would fit nicely (paladins can worship/embody an ideal) and would give him immunity to diseases.

elliott20
2009-01-13, 01:49 AM
hmm... the thing is though, cap is not immune to diseases, he's just highly resistant to it due to the super soldier serum. I think trying to give him divine health might be pushing it a tad. Of course, that all depends on your interpretation of him. Beyond that, two paladin levels would actually be a nice touch too.

Talic
2009-01-13, 02:11 AM
At a glance:

Your shield is mithril. The cap's shield was adamantium.

Epic_Wizard
2009-01-13, 02:21 AM
At a glance:

Your shield is mithril. The cap's shield was adamantium.

Actually I believe it was an alloy of Adamantium and Vibranium (which you could substitute with Odurium).

Unless you really want a build that's viable to play then I would suggest just fudging die roles for the 4d6 drop one stat set instead of the point buy. Then again I naturally dislike point buys for various reasons, all of them fairly selfish, so that's more a matter of opinion.

Baidas Kebante
2009-01-13, 03:19 AM
Actually I believe it was an alloy of Adamantium and Vibranium (which you could substitute with Odurium).

Unless you really want a build that's viable to play then I would suggest just fudging die roles for the 4d6 drop one stat set instead of the point buy. Then again I naturally dislike point buys for various reasons, all of them fairly selfish, so that's more a matter of opinion.

There's no adamantium in his shield. His trademark shield is a steel/vibranium alloy with a hidden, unknown element that allowed the two to combine. Adamantium was accidentally invented after the shield in an attempt to recreate the process. Still, for game purposes, it should be indestructible and capable of fending off any attack. So whatever materials that possess such properties is most important.

At base, Captain America has a high Charisma and average to above average Intelligence and Wisdom. His natural Constitution, Strength and Dexterity were very low. The supersoldier serum gave him high physical scores plus some extra abilities - he doesn't tire and is immune to most toxins while resistant to the rest. You may need some magic items to emulate this, but the key thing is that his Strength as given seems too high while his legendary Constitution seems to be neglected. He's also famous for being very agile, so definitely a higher Dex score is needed. He's considered peak human - so his physical scores should reflect that.

While White Raven helps with being a leader and tactics, Cap is more than just a leader - he's an inspiration. You may want to add some levels of either Bard or Marshal to show that just being in a party with him will offer bonuses (for a bard, I guess Perform: Battlecry "Avengers Assemble" would work). Cap also is famous for his shield, but he's a great hand-to-hand combatant. Besides striking, he's an exceptional grappler. Some maneuvers to reflect this may be needed. Most people also forget he's an expert marksman (WW2 elite soldier, remember?). He doesn't use guns anymore because he's a superhero, but if he needs it, he's a weapons expert. Of course, this Cap shouldn't have access to guns, but a few crossbow-related feats will suffice (for verisimilitude in a fantasy setting, try longsword since his ranged abilities are already covered, but he only uses it in emergencies).

His armour is actually scale armour and bullet resistant. It's not as good as your breastplate statistically, but it's also treated (enhanced) and made of special materials. I'd make it out of something light that can cancel out most of the armour check penalties, mostly because he can still perform a great deal of acrobatics in it without problem. Hey, at least it's cheaper.

Epic_Wizard
2009-01-13, 03:32 AM
Yeah I mean he managed to survive a nuclear blast going off in his face so his Con score should be ridiculous. Though I would say he probably had above average base stats or he wouldn't have been chosen for the super soldier program in the first place. Maybe not all 18's but something respectable.

I would also give his shield some special properties as well (maybe enchant it like a weapon to some extent) or homebrew some item properties. I mean Captain America's signature move is basically to throw his shield, bounce it off every minion in the room, and then catch it in time to block the badguy's attack.

elliott20
2009-01-13, 03:38 AM
BK, if you go that route, you could end up spreading him too thin to be truly effective in all areas. It would probably be better to just give him white raven, high CHA, and let his already high BAB handle the expert marksman area. (Plus, Rei-Jin's build already has far-shot and all those other range feats that can cover this sort of thing.)

The same goes for the inspiration thing. While totally valid, does not always work that well. If, however, we go paladin for a couple levels, we can use aura of courage to simulate that to a certain degree, perhaps. And use white raven to supplement the rest.

Rei_Jin
2009-01-13, 03:50 AM
Yeah I mean he managed to survive a nuclear blast going off in his face so his Con score should be ridiculous. Though I would say he probably had above average base stats or he wouldn't have been chosen for the super soldier program in the first place. Maybe not all 18's but something respectable.

I would also give his shield some special properties as well (maybe enchant it like a weapon to some extent) or homebrew some item properties. I mean Captain America's signature move is basically to throw his shield, bounce it off every minion in the room, and then catch it in time to block the badguy's attack.

Well, according to his backstory, he was declared unfit for service as he was weak and had poor health, so the first thing is shot. That was why he went into the Super Soldier program, because he wanted to help in any way he could. If you don't believe me, check the Marvel website.

And his shield IS magical. Have a look at the Items listing on the character sheet, it lists the breakdown of gear and costing of it. In addition to this, the Bloodstorm Blade Prestige Class lets him do crazy things with the shield, let alone the feats he's got to augment it.

elliott20
2009-01-13, 04:30 AM
While he did start off as a sickly little boy, and was augmented into a super soldier by the super soldier program, a lot of that you can simply handle as pre-level 1 background. Basically, by the time he's a level 1 character, he has already gone through the super soldier serum program and is just starting to realize his potential as a hero.

and epic_wizard, all of his shield throw stuff is already covered with the feats as well as the bloodstorm PrC. (which to me was THE class you need to do a good cap america)

Baidas Kebante
2009-01-13, 04:36 AM
BK, if you go that route, you could end up spreading him too thin to be truly effective in all areas. It would probably be better to just give him white raven, high CHA, and let his already high BAB handle the expert marksman area. (Plus, Rei-Jin's build already has far-shot and all those other range feats that can cover this sort of thing.)

The same goes for the inspiration thing. While totally valid, does not always work that well. If, however, we go paladin for a couple levels, we can use aura of courage to simulate that to a certain degree, perhaps. And use white raven to supplement the rest.

You're right, I got too caught up in throwing out suggestions I forgot about its effect on making him effective. My bad. :smalltongue:

elliott20
2009-01-13, 04:37 AM
You're right, I got too caught up in throwing out suggestions I forgot about its effect on making him effective. My bad. :smalltongue:

well, don't be hard on yourself, I mean. I'm sure it could work for alternate versions of cap. i.e. maybe we could built a U.S. Agent who visually looks like cap but focuses in different ways.

Epic_Wizard
2009-01-13, 05:27 PM
*note to self be less asleep at 3AM >.<*

Where is the Bloodsurge PrC listed btw?

Fax Celestis
2009-01-13, 05:46 PM
*note to self be less asleep at 3AM >.<*

Where is the Bloodsurge PrC listed btw?

Bloodstorm Blade is in ToB.

Rei_Jin
2009-01-13, 05:47 PM
Bloodsurge?

I think you mean Bloodstorm Blade. It's in the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, as is the base class.