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View Full Version : Alternate Skill point system design



Hario
2006-10-19, 10:12 AM
I grew tired of the current system, because it relys to heavily on Intelligence and dexteritty. So I designed a similiar way to go about putting Skill points up, because I'm sick of having intelligence being the quintessincial stat

Every Stat gains your 1/2 your bonus in skill points per lvl (round down except for with a +1 bonus) so an 18 charisma character gains 2 skill points, the kicker is they must use it on charisma skills, cross-class still applies. You do not lose skill points for having a negative modifier, you cannot put skill points into that stat based skill.

yes people will be putting points into concentration, but there should be more use of concentration.

The Natural skill points that are gained by a class (ie 8 skill points + int modifier regularly) can be put into any stat based skill of your choice.

Opinions? Changes? Comments?

Tormsskull
2006-10-19, 10:51 AM
Sounds to me like this would promote even more min/maxming and reduce flexibility.

Hario
2006-10-19, 01:55 PM
I designed it for the purpose of the rogue with the 6 charisma with the 20 intelligence who had a 20 bluff check modifier where the bard has a 12 because he had low intelligence. This does in no way mame or hurt the rogue, seeing as most of its skill points are put into dexterity based checks, and they can still use their normal 8 skill points on whatever they want, they just can't pass their class/crossclass max. Also note, that if you reached the max you can have, you lose all extra skill points, I expect almost every game to have most people with concentration maxed out, which should happen in most situations anyway seeing as its a skill not used enough.

Eighth_Seraph
2006-10-19, 04:37 PM
Concentration maxed out? Why? I don't see benefits for any non-spellcasting class at all...Well, maybe the party skillmonkey will be putting some ranks in here so she can pick locks in the middle of earthquakes or in a burning building.

I personally dislike this system, it makes the purchasing of skills incredibly rigid and promotes multi-ability dependency. I don't see anyone benefiting from this in any way, though maybe you can enlighten me, Hario.

Captain van der Decken
2006-10-19, 05:11 PM
I don't see how it makes you less flexible. At any rate, even more flexible depending on what skills you choose.

Jack_Simth
2006-10-19, 06:41 PM
Let's see....

So a standard eliete NPC (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) would have one stat he couldn't put point in (8), three that he can only apply level based skill points to (13, 12, 10 grant no skill bonuses), and two on which he gets a free skill point every level (15, 14). Which is about what he'd get if he put the 14 or 15 in Int.

So the Wizard with an Con-14, Int-18, Dex 13, Wis-13, Char-8, Str-12.....
Gets 2 "free" int skill points a level, 1 con skill point a level, 0 dex, wis, or str skill points a level, cannot take Charisma-based skills at all, and gets his 2 skill points per level that he can apply to anything (that's not Charisma based).

So he gets 5 skill points per level. The Sorcerer who put the 12 in Int, the 18 in Charisma, the 8 in Str, but otherwise was the same, will have maxed Bluff (only Charisma-based class skill... oddly) and Concentration (caster's only Con based skill) and has a loose two skill points he can put into anything not Strength-based... so he uses it to add cross-class ranks to something Charisma based with his other Charisma skill point, and ups Spellcraft.

Hmm. Maybe.

Hario
2006-10-19, 08:42 PM
actually the wizard could put the 2 skill points in whatever he wanted to, though class skills are usually the preferance. I'm not gimping/saying you can't put them in, the class skill points can still be put anywhere you please.

Also maxing out concentration isn't the point, its just an odd side effect of this system.

Eighth_Seraph
2006-10-19, 09:56 PM
Again, the only problem I see this balancing is the Wizard's distinct skill advantage over the Sorcerer at later levels, though the wizard's distinct lack of class skills does balance that quite nicely to begin with. The first problem that actually came to my mind is the consequence of intelligence being increasingly used as a dump stat, especially by fighters, barbarians, monks, paladins and even rangers. Notice that these are all the core fighting classes, and as even the ranger uses few intelligence-based skills, using it as a dump stat will be fairly beneficial in terms of everything else, including her spellcasting and physical ability. This might not seem like a problem to anyone, but roleplyaing will reach a dead stop when the rogue and wizard in a five pperson party are the only ones capable of forming a coherent sentence.

The second problem is one of realism. Intelligence could also be taken as a measure of versatility, and thus the amount of skill points possessed by a player. The ability to open a lock may require a certain degree of mannual dexterity, but without knowledge and experience of how to actually open a lock (i.e., ranks based on Intelligence) that door's not opening any time soon. I also think that it would make sense that an abnormally intelligent person would have knowledge on various things. For example: a wizard with 22 Int, described as supra-genius level if I'm not mistaken, would be more readily able to learn things outside of his nature rapidly, though his lack of focus in the area of a skill may pose problems; thus a cross-class skill. A barbarian with an Int of 8, on the other hand, will not be too impressive in terms of how quickly and how well she can learn much of anything, even fully physical skills like move silently will be difficult because the ability to apply oneself is simply not there.

I don't like having to list problems for homebrew systems like this, it makes me feel like I'm trying to put you down; but there really are a few things that either need to be fixed up with this system, or simply the elimination of the system altogether is necessary. Think about it: taking away Intelligence as the basis for skill points will leave it useful only to Int-based casters and classes with lots of Int-based skills. The latter is made up primarily of skillmonkies like rogues and the occasional bard, so not too many players will see a benefit in Intelligence at all, and it will be shoved to the side alongside Wisdom for characters who don't use skills primarily.

Hario
2006-10-19, 11:02 PM
I did have an idea to balance it by having your biggest knowlege based stat (int wis cha) to take the place for your will save bonus. (some will disagree I have no problem) I will make this point pretty clearly, Intelligent characters with access to knowlege based skill almost never put ranks into these skill unless its ones like religion or arcane, which give nice synergies. The only ones I see less used are profession, craft, and forgery. This change represents the use of your bonuses to skills as you level and become more powerful with each stat. If you want to put it, its somewhat more real and fair than the system right now. Sure some might dump intelligence but they already do that to wisdom and charisma unless you're a caster. A Barbarian shouldn't only get 1 skill point if he has a 9 intelligence due to poor rolling. This system represents an innate talent that you progress through your stat benifits. Intelligence isn't the only stat that should be required of Characters.