PDA

View Full Version : Summon (Monster) [Spell]



Fizban
2006-10-17, 11:38 PM
Not so much a ready made spell as an idea: I've never liked the normal summon monster spells very much, as the monsters summoned have few hit die and low CR, and just don't feel as powerful as I'd like them to be. I invision a summon spell as being more like they are portrayed in final fantasy: summoning a hugely powerful creature for a short time.

After reading such spells as Summon Elemental Monolith, Summon Aspect of Bahamut, and Summon Aspect of Tiamat (well, that's what the last two do anyway), I decided that the concentration up to 1 round/level was perfect. Checking the CR's of the creatures, I found that each was CR (spell level X2)-1 or 2. So my idea is this: allow a spellcaster to research a spell Summon (creature) that always summons an average specimen of the specific creature and lasts for concentration up to 1 round/level. Obviously this would require DM adjudication on what creature could be summoned and of what level, but what do you guys say?

Example levels and creatures from the MM could be:
Summon Dragon Turtle, lv5
Summon 5-Headed Hydra, lv3-4
Summon Tyrannasour, lv5
Summon Rust Monster, lv2
Summon Frost Worm, lv7 (and the creature that inspired me to do this.)

Edit because I don't want then second new post to be mine and jinx my thread:

@v, You read it right, the highest CR creature is essentially the minimum CL for the spell. As for divine casters, unless the DM decides to make a few of these standard spells, they have to be researched individually or bought/commisioned from another spellcaster.

I would also add that the DM is encouraged to strip the summoned creature of their spells and spell-like abilities usable 3/day and less.

@vv, That spell does not require concentration, and also grants bonus hp to the dragon turtle.

chaiyo
2006-10-18, 08:31 PM
Seems like a noteworthy idea. Particularly because I've never really liked the current summoning system. I really can't complain about this, particularly because you only summon monsters of CR for the minimum level needed (Or at least, if I'm interpreting this right). Also, one creature summoned takes up one whole spell, so you are required to learn different spells for different creatures. However, this could go broken for divine casters, considering their spell knowledge capacity (read: all), which is my only worry. However, the Concentration is a good idea, and should fix balance more than you'd think.

Latronis
2006-10-19, 10:29 AM
There is a lv8 sorcerer spell in races of the dragon that summons a dragon turtle so lv 5 does seem a little low.

Eighth_Seraph
2006-10-19, 04:32 PM
Good idea, but far too vulnerable to power-gaming. a CR 9 monster is NOT equal to a level 9 character, it is equal to a level 9 party. Or that's the idea atleast. Since that's CR is equal to minimum caster level here, that'll be a problem. Just imagine a level 14 wizard summoning an adult gold dragon to wreak havoc on an opposing party of five twelfth level barbarians. And winning before the duration runs out. That seems a bit much to me, some nerfing in a part of this spell is required.

The_Snark
2006-10-19, 06:02 PM
I don't know... I rather like it. A creature of CR 9 is not equivalent to a party of CR 9- barring unusual circumstances, which usually raise the effective CR, the party will win easily, every time. According to the DMG, a party of 4 should be able to go through about 4 encounters of equal CR before having to rest. Looking at level 1, this seems about accurate; CR 1 means 4 encounters of 2 goblins each, with a few minutes to heal up and stuff between each one. And yes, a CR 9 monster is in fact vaguely equivalent to a level 9 character, as a level 9 character is CR 9. There are sometimes differences, but it tends to average out.

I think it works out, though you should definitely require that each individual creature require its own spell. Divine spellcasters might have an advantage here, but there is 1 limiting factor already in place: you still have to prepare the individual spell 24 hours ahead of time. And if you make the divine spellcaster research the spell for each type of monster they want to summon, it should be fine. Alternatively, simply limit the type of creatures that can be summoned; outsiders with the appropriate alignment subtypes and other types or specific monsters based on the caster's choice of domains.

And concentration means that if anyone smacks the spellcaster, they may lose the spell, meaning they lose the creature. I like it.

Fizban
2006-10-19, 06:26 PM
Just to clarify, you have to research the spell yourself.
The spell created can only summon one creature. So if I created a summon frost worm spell, it could only summon a frost worm, and it only summons one. If I made a summon young gold dragon spell, it could only summon a single young gold dragon.
A divine spellcaster can only use such a spell by researching it themselves, unless the DM decides to put a specific summon spell on their class's base list.

And this is by no means an infallible method, I'm well aware that it's easily abusable, and it would be up to the DM to choose what creatures to disallow, or what abilities to remove from a summoned creature.
Creatures that one would likely disallow would be: angels, eladrins, guardinals, demons, devils, true dragons, and other creatures with many spell-like abilities or actual spellcasting.