PDA

View Full Version : Guns, airships, and big steampowered robot mech things.



Tiak
2009-01-13, 09:47 PM
In my D&D world I got lot's of crap that doesn't fit into a standard fantasy setting. flintlock firearms, Airships, and these mech's that are powered by steam ( and in one story kidnapped orphans, but the game went to a dark place that day.....). one of the players continues to point out that we are "playing D&D". that's not nearly enough to change my mind but I just like hearing what other people think. It is D&D after all, everthing goes.

Canadian
2009-01-13, 09:57 PM
Your story reminds me of a restaurant I used to go to.

One day after going to the gym a friend of mine took me to a restaurant I had never been to before. It was called New York Sub Way and looked like a standard run down sub shop.

I go up to order and I see a chalk board menu with single words on it.

Beef, Chicken, Shrimp, Goat... Goat!?!

My friend can't keep from laughing. I order a beef and he orders a chicken. The guys go into action and stark cooking in a giant wok. The whole staff is Chinese and Indian. The food looks great and smells wonderful but it looks like Indian food. Then they serve it up on submarine sandwich buns.

I sat down to eat and stared at the food. "This isn't a sub."

My pal was now laughing hysterically. "Yeah I know."

I ate it... It tasted great but the only thing that made it even close to being a sub was the bun and the fact that the shop had the word "sub" in the name. Other than that it could have been made by aliens.

We often wondered if they were too cheap to change the sign and decided to keep it and just serve their food on sub buns to justify keeping the sign.

Every now and then we'd get cravings for a certain food. When it was for subs we never once suggested this place.

So if everyone is craving a game of D&D don't be surprised if they go to someone else's game. Since what you're serving up may be D&D in name only. Maybe you should change your sign?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2009-01-13, 10:10 PM
...

That place is just a few blocks from where I'm sitting right now.

Stop stalking me.




I love that place though! It was the best shawarma I've ever had! I had the goat, obviously, because I love goat.

newbDM
2009-01-13, 10:21 PM
Yeah, people keep forgetting that the DMG says that even everything in the Core Books are merely "guidelines".


My homebrewed multiverse is low-magic and low-wealth, and the first time I ran it I got some problems about not using core books/setting(s) as is it described word-for-word. In your case, you are going away from the standard "fantasy" theme of the three D&D settings as well, so you have that problem as well.

However, as much as I disagree with your player, I would suggest that if he is not happy with a not "official" type setting he should consider leaving if it will be that big of an issue for him, and if it will cause problems to the group. I had to quit my first campaign for a similar problem, so I understand your feelings about this. If he won't be happy, then you and your players might not be happy either.

Triaxx
2009-01-13, 10:24 PM
Sounds like you have narrow-minded players. I have a homebrew world with Cannons, and Airships. No one complains that it's not D&D, because it still feels Dungeons and Dragons.

Sounds like you've got some Steampunk going on in your world, which is fine. Show them Gnome inventions, particularly the stuff that comes from Krynn.

Remember the DM's axiom: (When a Wizard didn't do it, blame the Gnomes.)

Altima
2009-01-13, 10:43 PM
In my D&D world I got lot's of crap that doesn't fit into a standard fantasy setting. flintlock firearms, Airships, and these mech's that are powered by steam ( and in one story kidnapped orphans, but the game went to a dark place that day.....). one of the players continues to point out that we are "playing D&D". that's not nearly enough to change my mind but I just like hearing what other people think. It is D&D after all, everthing goes.

It's not particularly out of place. For example, your steam robots could be golems who use a steam elemental as their binding spirit instead of an earth elemental (or something). Heck, in the latest NWN2 game (which is set in pretty much the most magical setting--before 4th--in D&D) they have clockwork golems...and even clockroaches!

As for airships, well, they're practically in any fantasy setting in one form or another--from actual sailing vessels to floating castles to Avatar's floating metal airships of doom.

Personally, the only problem I'd have with your setting are the fire arms. I hate 'guns' in a fantasy setting with a great flaming passion. Guns killed the age of chivalry and allows a peasant with a few months of practice to simply off a knight with years of battle experience with a single shot. But this is D&D, so *shrugs* It just breaks the suspension of disbelief to me.

Asbestos
2009-01-13, 11:27 PM
When I saw the title to this I thought... Iron Kingdoms?
Then I saw the OPs post and I thought... has this guy not heard of Iron Kingdoms and he's trying to homebrew it?

Seriously. IK has the rules for guns, steam powered war machines, steam powered armor, steam powered liches even! Its awesome!

The Glyphstone
2009-01-14, 12:06 AM
It also costs OVER $9000 to get on Ebay apparently, being out of print.:smallwink:

Asbestos
2009-01-14, 12:21 AM
It also costs OVER $9000 to get on Ebay apparently, being out of print.:smallwink:

I believe that's just the world setting. Everything else is available for much, much cheaper.

I can't think of a more sought after book in PnP RPGs... its like the Gutenberg Bible of d20. Does anyone on these forums have it? Do they have a proper scanner? :smallwink:

Random NPC
2009-01-14, 12:29 AM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/Willowhugger/Shadowfast/motivator4763919.jpg

Tengu_temp
2009-01-14, 12:38 AM
This is your game. Nothing prohibits you from involving elements you like. DND has a lot of steampunk elements anyway - mostly in Eberron, but not exclusively.

PinkysBrain
2009-01-14, 01:01 AM
Eberron isn't really steampunk, it just has railroads.

Asbestos
2009-01-14, 01:17 AM
Oh right, there's also something called Dragonmech, might want to check that out as well.

Teron
2009-01-14, 01:28 AM
This is your game. Nothing prohibits you from involving elements you like. DND has a lot of steampunk elements anyway - mostly in Eberron, but not exclusively.
Eberron is not, strictly speaking, steampunk -- if anything, it has fewer technological elements than other settings (Faerun has gunpowder, doesn't it?); even clockwork, which is generally accepted in "traditional" settings, has little place in it. What Eberron does is treat arcane magic as a science of sorts and apply it practically, which results in some elements -- like the controversial "trains" -- which mirror real-life technology but function entirely on magical principles.

I'm sorry for nitpicking, but given the amount of knee-jerk distaste the setting gets for its departures from bog-standard fantasy fare, even innocent misinformation about it bugs me. I'd like to think, and occasionally try to ensure, that people generally understand what they're dismissing.

Waspinator
2009-01-14, 02:50 AM
Oh right, there's also something called Dragonmech, might want to check that out as well.

Yeah, Dragonmech is basically a stereotypical D&D world that underwent an industrial revolution in response to major disaster messing up most of civilization (they REALLY needed giant robots). It's got steam-powered robots, cyborgs, and whatnot.


And Eberron has many "devices" that appear similar to steampunk ones, but they do not operate on the standard "amazingly advanced steam and clockwork" basis of steampunk. It's more of a pulp, "magipunk" setting.

Kaiyanwang
2009-01-14, 03:00 AM
Narrow-minded player. The setting is yours, and D&D, even if a lot of people think the opposite, can be adapted to infinite kind of setting, you have only to change (generally, only refluff) few things.

True, Eberron has less steampunk elements that other settings, but I think that has been designed with steampunk (or steampunk-influenced settings) in mind.

Or at least, to something similar to. I was wondering if refluffing Eberron (joining together the Houses forming a Guild) could be possible create a Last Exile-like setting :smallconfused:

Zeful
2009-01-14, 03:22 AM
In my D&D world I got lot's of crap that doesn't fit into a standard fantasy setting, flintlock firearms, Airships, and these mech's that are powered by steam ( and in one story kidnapped orphans, but the game went to a dark place that day.....). One of the players continues to point out that we are "playing D&D". that's not nearly enough to change my mind but I just like hearing what other people think. It is D&D after all, everything goes.

You as a GM can do whatever you want with your setting. But it seems the nitpicky player doesn't agree that the changes you've made keep in with the themes of D&D. I'd have a talk with him and reach some sort of compromise that keeps the Magi/Steam-punk feel while allowing him to "play D&D" as he put it. You'd be surprised with what others can come up with.

bosssmiley
2009-01-14, 05:26 AM
In my D&D world I got lot's of crap that doesn't fit into a standard fantasy setting. flintlock firearms, Airships, and these mech's that are powered by steam ( and in one story kidnapped orphans, but the game went to a dark place that day.....). one of the players continues to point out that we are "playing D&D". that's not nearly enough to change my mind but I just like hearing what other people think. It is D&D after all, everthing goes.

Who is this player who knows not his own sub-culture? :smallconfused:

The Boot Hill and Gamma World sections of the 1E DMG (along with most of Appendix N - Suggested Reading), "Tekumel", "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks", "Spelljammer", "Dark Sun", "The Book of Wondrous Inventions" and "Carcosa" all point and laugh at his misdirected purism. Does this guy even know where the Derro come from? :smallamused:

D&D != sub-Tolkienian high fantasy.

Clementx
2009-01-14, 09:03 AM
Unless your firearms are so mechanically superior (as they were in real life) that they obsolete the player's traditional combat style, he doesn't have much ground for complaint. They are really slow and deal good damage, most likely? So probably the same as a ranger Manyshoting and missing every other round. Airships are just a more descriptive way of saying, "You walk to Thay from Waterdeep, which takes 93 8-hour gaming sessions. Except for the dwarf and halfing. They take 139.5 sessions."

Probably the only serious issue could be that, "dark place". If the player is uncomfortable with the subject matter, or does not feel heroic enough in such a setting to be having fun, then that is valid. You should see if that was the problem, and address it seriously. More saving princesses from zombie-robot Gustav Eiffel might be better than looking for orphan grinders.

Dixieboy
2009-01-14, 09:16 AM
I for some reason want to say iron kingdoms

Canadian
2009-01-14, 09:56 AM
Gwyn - New York Sub Way is owned by the same people at Ghandi Roti. I have to say that Ghandi has the best roti I've ever had. I loooooove the butter chicken and the Malai Kofta. If you have not eaten then I highly suggest you try it. It's pretty much right across the street from where Dukes and all those other burned down places are.

Peace!

Tengu_temp
2009-01-14, 10:07 AM
Eberron is not, strictly speaking, steampunk -- if anything, it has fewer technological elements than other settings (Faerun has gunpowder, doesn't it?); even clockwork, which is generally accepted in "traditional" settings, has little place in it. What Eberron does is treat arcane magic as a science of sorts and apply it practically, which results in some elements -- like the controversial "trains" -- which mirror real-life technology but function entirely on magical principles.

I'm sorry for nitpicking, but given the amount of knee-jerk distaste the setting gets for its departures from bog-standard fantasy fare, even innocent misinformation about it bugs me. I'd like to think, and occasionally try to ensure, that people generally understand what they're dismissing.

I know that. However, Eberron certainly does have a steampunk feel to it, even if all of it is actually magic.

To me, people who dislike steampunk (and all similar settings) have tastes I can't understand in the slightest. Such settings are usually much more interesting and with greater potential than Generic Fantasy World #174. Not to mention more fun - everything is better with trains, guns and clockwork/steam/magic robots.

Morty
2009-01-14, 10:14 AM
To me, people who dislike steampunk (and all similar settings) have tastes I can't understand in the slightest. Such settings are usually much more interesting and with greater potential than Generic Fantasy World #174. Not to mention more fun - everything is better with trains, guns and clockwork/steam/magic robots.

Except that some people think mixing genres is silly and makes for a mix that doesn't taste well together. Fantasy with trains might be great for one person, but the other one will just go WTF. "Fun" is the most relative concept there is, so people should seriously stop using it objectively, which includes statements like "everything is better with X". "Interesting" isn't relative, but while Eberron, for instance have picked my interest, I've quickly deemed it too ridiculous to actually play in for numerous reasons, airships, magic trains and warforged being the primary ones. Now, actual steampunk I don't mind, as long as it makes a smidgen of sense, Arcanum is a fun game. But I have no trouble understanding those who do mind it.

Oslecamo
2009-01-14, 11:44 AM
To me, people who dislike steampunk (and all similar settings) have tastes I can't understand in the slightest. Such settings are usually much more interesting and with greater potential than Generic Fantasy World #174. Not to mention more fun - everything is better with trains, guns and clockwork/steam/magic robots.

Because some people like limits and simplicity, and don't want to play in a world where in the next corner there's an equal chance of being a samurai mecha piloted by a catgirl or an avatar of nature with frilly dresses who dual wields revolvers.

Most of my RL group for example think it's ridiculous wielding oversized weapons, and that if a dwarf can hit as hard as a 10 foot tall naked troll whitout uber equipment backing the dwarf up, something is very wrong.

Waspinator
2009-01-14, 12:43 PM
Can we just agree that, regardless of whether Tolkein-esque settings are better or worse than things like steampunk or Eberron, they're different enough that which one is best is more of a personal preference thing than anything else?

newbDM
2009-01-14, 01:00 PM
Can we just agree that, regardless of whether Tolkein-esque settings are better or worse than things like steampunk or Eberron, they're different enough that which one is best is more of a personal preference thing than anything else?

I agree with you.

Hence why I suggested that if the player will be unhappy in this sort of game, the DM/OP should have a serious one-on-one talk with him about it.

Tengu_temp
2009-01-14, 01:14 PM
I know that liking or disliking a particular setting is just a matter of preference. It doesn't change the fact that the mindset which dislikes steampunk is so different from mine that I don't understand it at all.

The player in question has the right to dislike steampunk elements. However, using any justification other than "that's just my preferences" is just stupid and wrong from his side. Especially justification among the lines of "this is DND, DND shouldn't have steampunk".

Egiam
2009-01-14, 02:03 PM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/Willowhugger/Shadowfast/motivator4763919.jpg

Woah, where did you get that?! That rocks!
I think that eberron is steampunk without steam. Or firearms for that matter.

Prometheus
2009-01-14, 02:20 PM
Certainly it is within the scope of D&D for the DM to make whatever setting he/she wants. Certainly it also the role of the DM to make a setting his/her players will enjoy.

Tacoma
2009-01-14, 05:20 PM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/Willowhugger/Shadowfast/motivator4763919.jpg

*scene


//

I assume you kind of sprang this on your players, and they've been playing with you in it for a little while. But this is why the DM should ask the players what they want to play in before he starts, and he should put his theme out there, and if people have a problem with it they can get it off their chests right up front.

But I have to say I don't agree that D&D = gamma world, or D&D = boot hill. Gygax may have done the Barrier Peaks thing, but some groups like to play a wide range of games and I suspect his group was like that. Wargamers tend to be very fluid in interests. Heck, Gygax had a level of his Greyhawk dungeon that was a black comedy version of Alice in Wonderland!

That said, when we talk about standard D&D and what people expect from it, most people do think of Dwarves and Elves and Hob- er, Halflings tromping around in the forest and battling in the dungeons.

THAT said, there's no reason why D&D can't stray away from its basic formula. It should sometimes. But the sub shop analogy is a good one. Some people would go to the sub shop again, some wouldn't, but honestly if you really wanted a sub you wouldn't go there because they don't actually serve subs.

Canadian
2009-01-14, 06:59 PM
I think the whole thing has to do with meeting people's expectations. As long as people know what to expect and the label fits their expectations everything will be fine. The problem is people tend to fix their labels in their heads for life.

Here's an example...

It was the company Christmas party and it was at a restaurant on Church street. We all spilled out into the street after the party and wanted to keep the party going. Someone said "We should go to a bar!" Everyone said "Yeah!" A female coworker said her favorite bar was right across the street. "Let's go!" everyone said.

Two minutes later we're in a Dyke bar called Tango's surrounded by lesbians making out on the dance floor. In my lesbian co-worker's mind the place was simply "a bar." In everyone else's mind it was "a gay bar." Sure it had drinks and a dance floor just like any other bar. However, the omission of a key detail caused problems that evening.

One worker who was a homophobe made some drunken remarks and almost got into a fight. He was fired the next day for discrimination against fellow employees. Another employee who was in the closet fled the scene for fear he would be outed in front of his straight co-workers by some people he knew in the area.

(On a side note the rest of the male employees loved it. The city had recently passed a law that allowed women to go topless in public. This meant almost every woman in the bar was naked from the waist up. The guys also liked the music and the cheap beer. One guy tried to organize a return visit for the next weekend since it was "better than any strip club in the universe! This place IS AWESOME!")

Sure "a bar" could mean any place with drinks. However, we all have our own individual interpretations / expectations of what that means. When those interpretations don't match feelings can get hurt. We need to be respectful of those interpretations.

Obviously you have a player who has a fixed image of what D&D is to them. I'm sure there's a way of playing the game your way and making them feel comfortable about it. Perhaps if you just change the label a bit they'll be fine with it. "We're gonna play a modified version of D&D." would probably put him at ease.

It's easier to change the label - or add a little detail to a label - than it is to change someone's mind.

Tacoma
2009-01-14, 07:03 PM
Fired for discriminatory remarks about a coworker, outside of normal work hours and environment, even after the corp party was over. This is why I don't socialize with people at work or outside of work.

Or get drunk around them ... but that should be pretty obvious.

Great story, Canadian.

Triaxx
2009-01-14, 07:20 PM
That particular agrument against guns isn't much help in a world with magic.

Peasant: Look, with no training I can kill that heavily armored dude with one shot.

Sorceror: So can I.

Wizard: I can put a little effort into it and wipe out a column.

Peasant: *cries*

newbDM
2009-01-14, 09:07 PM
That particular agrument against guns isn't much help in a world with magic.

Peasant: Look, with no training I can kill that heavily armored dude with one shot.

Sorceror: So can I.

Wizard: I can put a little effort into it and wipe out a column.

Peasant: *cries*


Well, the point is that wizards and sorcerers are supposed to be special and rare. Something most players, and DMs seem to forget nowadays.

This is one of my issues with 4.0, but that is a completely different matter. I am just saying that magic was not originally meant to be as overwhelmingly common and everywhere as it has become.

Tengu_temp
2009-01-14, 09:56 PM
If a crossbow is not an insta-kill weapon, I don't see why an early level gun should be.

newbDM
2009-01-14, 11:11 PM
If a crossbow is not an insta-kill weapon, I don't see why an early level gun should be.

Well, it kind of is for a commoner.

Random NPC
2009-01-14, 11:28 PM
"Interesting" isn't relative, but while Eberron, for instance have picked my interest, I've quickly deemed it too ridiculous to actually play in for numerous reasons, airships, magic trains and warforged being the primary ones.
Add Dinosaur riding halflings, teenage liches, lolita high priestesses and shifters and you'll have the reason why I love Eberron!

newbDM
2009-01-14, 11:32 PM
lolita high priestesses

What?!

What NPC is this?

Random NPC
2009-01-14, 11:41 PM
What?!

What NPC is this?

Jaela Daran, leader of the Church of the Silver Flame. She's eleven years old and as long as she stays in the Flamekeep, she's an 18th level Cleric (otherwise just a simple 3rd level Cleric)

Zeful
2009-01-14, 11:54 PM
Jaela Daran, leader of the Church of the Silver Flame. She's eleven years old and as long as she stays in the Flamekeep, she's an 18th level Cleric (otherwise just a simple 3rd level Cleric)

3rd level by 11? She'll be epic level once she's legal.

Asbestos
2009-01-14, 11:58 PM
Except that some people think mixing genres is silly and makes for a mix that doesn't taste well together. Fantasy with trains might be great for one person, but the other one will just go WTF. "Fun" is the most relative concept there is, so people should seriously stop using it objectively, which includes statements like "everything is better with X". "Interesting" isn't relative, but while Eberron, for instance have picked my interest, I've quickly deemed it too ridiculous to actually play in for numerous reasons, airships, magic trains and warforged being the primary ones. Now, actual steampunk I don't mind, as long as it makes a smidgen of sense, Arcanum is a fun game. But I have no trouble understanding those who do mind it.
Hmmph, I bet you don't like Planescape either. Honestly, I don't see the issue that people have with Warforged. Intelligent constructs made for war that now have nothing better to do with their time aren't anything unique (or new), if you don't believe me go check out what a Maug is.

Anyway, the reasons you gave are far less absurd than the dino riding halflings and other junk that Random NPC mentioned.

But to each their own, I suppose.

Waspinator
2009-01-15, 02:36 AM
I believe that's just the world setting. Everything else is available for much, much cheaper.

I can't think of a more sought after book in PnP RPGs... its like the Gutenberg Bible of d20. Does anyone on these forums have it? Do they have a proper scanner? :smallwink:

By the way, would it be in poor taste to mention how earlier today I sent a Paypal payment to someone from another message board and am currently waiting for the Iron Kingdoms Character Guide and World Guide that I paid $30 total for? :smallamused:

Sure, the guy wrote his name in the front cover and the covers are a little scuffed, but still an awesome deal.

KnightDisciple
2009-01-15, 03:27 AM
3rd level by 11? She'll be epic level once she's legal.

Yeah. Makes it harder for suitors to get fresh with her, know what I mean? :smalltongue:

Zeful
2009-01-15, 03:55 AM
Yeah. Makes it harder for suitors to get fresh with her, know what I mean? :smalltongue:

She would be dating a god or an Archon or something (or if she was going through a "Bad girl" phase a succubus (which can turn into men as well)) not Joe commoner.

Though it would be amusing to watch her vaporise the "Ladies man" that couldn't take a hint. Then True Rez him to be smug about it.

Berserk Monk
2009-01-15, 06:36 AM
This is D&D, not Final Fantasy. You're on a slippery slope. Next thing you know, you'll be introducing a character with insane spiky hair and a sword that's twice his length.

Triaxx
2009-01-15, 06:56 AM
Isn't that a Dwarf with a Greatsword?

Bayar
2009-01-15, 07:03 AM
3rd level by 11? She'll be epic level once she's legal.

Well, the Forgotten Freedom tried in numerous occasions to kidnap her, magically age her, blown wishes and miracles to get her legal...

Good thing that Captain Jarlot wrote those rules...even though nobody follows them.

KnightDisciple
2009-01-15, 07:08 AM
This is D&D, not Final Fantasy. You're on a slippery slope. Next thing you know, you'll be introducing a character with insane spiky hair and a sword that's twice his length.

:smallconfused: I'm lost how you got to this point.

newbDM
2009-01-15, 08:27 AM
This is D&D, not Final Fantasy. You're on a slippery slope. Next thing you know, you'll be introducing a character with insane spiky hair and a sword that's twice his length.

Hey, I am placing the chocobo from that issue of Dragon Magazine as an easter egg players can unlock in my multiverse, so I resent that.

The point is, d20/3.5 is so versatile you can make Final Fantasy out of it, or anything you can imagine.

newbDM
2009-01-15, 08:28 AM
She would be dating a god or an Archon or something (or if she was going through a "Bad girl" phase a succubus (which can turn into men as well)) not Joe commoner.

Though it would be amusing to watch her vaporise the "Ladies man" that couldn't take a hint. Then True Rez him to be smug about it.


So the cake is a lie?


And apparently a bit snobby to boot. :smallconfused:

bosssmiley
2009-01-15, 08:53 AM
Jaela Daran, leader of the Church of the Silver Flame. She's eleven years old and as long as she stays in the Flamekeep, she's an 18th level Cleric (otherwise just a simple 3rd level Cleric)

All hail the LoliPope! :smallbiggrin:


This is D&D, not Final Fantasy. You're on a slippery slope. Next thing you know, you'll be introducing a character with insane spiky hair and a sword that's twice his length.

Sorry, what? I can't hear you over the sound of all the fun that's being had melding genres and wallowing in joyous gonzo-ery. :smallwink:

Please refer to my previous post on this subject:

D&D has been unashamedly wacky since before anyone had ever heard of "Akira", let alone FF or Avatar.

Animu-stuff is just the latest sedimentary layer of oddness which has accreted to the delicious multi-layered cake of strange that is our favourite game. To be honest I'm perfectly happy with that. It gives us all more material to draw on (and more ways to put the PCs through the wringer).

Asbestos
2009-01-15, 09:25 AM
By the way, would it be in poor taste to mention how earlier today I sent a Paypal payment to someone from another message board and am currently waiting for the Iron Kingdoms Character Guide and World Guide that I paid $30 total for? :smallamused:

Sure, the guy wrote his name in the front cover and the covers are a little scuffed, but still an awesome deal.

:smallfurious:
Well, that's awesome for you then... you have a scanner? :smallwink:

Morty
2009-01-15, 09:50 AM
Add Dinosaur riding halflings, teenage liches, lolita high priestesses and shifters and you'll have the reason why I love Eberron!

And you'll get the reasons I don't like it at the same time, except for shifters, which compared to most non-core races aren't stupid at all. Which is why it leads us nowhere.


Hmmph, I bet you don't like Planescape either.

I've never played it, but from what I know about it, it sounds great. It's a matter of style, really. Magical robots, halfling-riding dinosaurs, airships and magical trains are all parts of style I consider unplayable, even if they make sense in the context of the setting. I like breaking the genre, but not in that way.

Bayar
2009-01-15, 01:37 PM
I've never played it, but from what I know about it, it sounds great. It's a matter of style, really. Magical robots, halfling-riding dinosaurs, airships and magical trains are all parts of style I consider unplayable, even if they make sense in the context of the setting. I like breaking the genre, but not in that way.

You just listed 4 stuff that make Eberron awesome....


I mean, Halflings riding ponies = yawn, halflings riding riding dogs = interesting, halflings riding dinosaurs = awesome. Steam powered trains ? Been there, done that. Trains that levitate on magical stones and are powered by a bound air elemental ? Unique. Steam powered robots, magical robots, cyborgs, they are all awesome. Airships ? Gee, who wouldnt want to have one of those ? It's like asking someone if he wouldnt want an Osprey.

Tacoma
2009-01-15, 01:48 PM
It's like asking someone if he wouldnt want an Osprey.

You mean the Osprey that might be worthwhile in about 30 years and after $100 billion in development before it can fly without blowing the heck up? Or the familiar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osprey)?

(Which might blow up for completely separate reasons, such as eating your friend's Carp familiar)

Morty
2009-01-15, 01:52 PM
You just listed 4 stuff that make Eberron awesome....


I mean, Halflings riding ponies = yawn, halflings riding riding dogs = interesting, halflings riding dinosaurs = awesome. Steam powered trains ? Been there, done that. Trains that levitate on magical stones and are powered by a bound air elemental ? Unique. Steam powered robots, magical robots, cyborgs, they are all awesome. Airships ? Gee, who wouldnt want to have one of those ? It's like asking someone if he wouldnt want an Osprey.

I know people like Eberron, and I don't much care, since such discussions lead nowhere, but it'd be nice if people stopped responding to criticism with "well that's awesome". Well, good for you. But isn't the fact that I posted something clearly on contrary a proof I don't think that way? I know I've been guilty of this once or twice but really...
Tl;dr- no, I think those things aren't awesome but completely stupid.

Bayar
2009-01-15, 01:59 PM
You mean the Osprey that might be worthwhile in about 30 years and after $100 billion in development before it can fly without blowing the heck up? Or the familiar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osprey)?

(Which might blow up for completely separate reasons, such as eating your friend's Carp familiar)

Ever played Half life ?

Oslecamo
2009-01-15, 02:01 PM
Animu-stuff is just the latest sedimentary layer of oddness which has accreted to the delicious multi-layered cake of strange that is our favourite game. To be honest I'm perfectly happy with that. It gives us all more material to draw on (and more ways to put the PCs through the wringer).

Too much ingredients spoils the cooking. Too much cooking spoils the ingredients.

Some people prefer to eat an apple than a black ball to wich have been added so many aditives that it actually doesn't taste anything anymore. Of course, other people prefer the ball of unknown origin and fabrication, and they say it tastes just great, because they don't eat an apple for so long their senses have been dulled.

Tacoma
2009-01-15, 02:53 PM
Too much ingredients spoils the cooking. Too much cooking spoils the ingredients.

Some people prefer to eat an apple than a black ball to wich have been added so many aditives that it actually doesn't taste anything anymore. Of course, other people prefer the ball of unknown origin and fabrication, and they say it tastes just great, because they don't eat an apple for so long their senses have been dulled.

I agree, mainly because you left that so open-ended. Otherwise I would have said the casserole is a good example of lots of ingredients and lots of cooking. Or stew. Both of which are good.

Triaxx
2009-01-15, 05:49 PM
halfling-riding dinosaurs

A dinosaur mounted on a halfling? Most awesome idea ever. Period.

Asbestos
2009-01-15, 06:40 PM
You mean the Osprey that might be worthwhile in about 30 years and after $100 billion in development before it can fly without blowing the heck up?

You mean those things that we have flying around Iraq?

Here's a weird steampunk-esque setting. Broken Gears. Look it up and be confused.

Waspinator
2009-01-16, 03:28 AM
:smallfurious:
Well, that's awesome for you then... you have a scanner? :smallwink:

I do, but the potential legal problems combined with me really not wanting to scan THAT many pages makes me not want to do that.

bosssmiley
2009-01-16, 05:52 AM
Too much ingredients spoils the cooking. Too much cooking spoils the ingredients.

Some people prefer to eat an apple than a black ball to wich have been added so many aditives that it actually doesn't taste anything anymore. Of course, other people prefer the ball of unknown origin and fabrication, and they say it tastes just great, because they don't eat an apple for so long their senses have been dulled.

What point are you even trying to make here? Mangled metaphor is mangled. :smallconfused:

The existence of animu influences or steampunkery in D&D gives me the option of adding more things to my game. It does not oblige me to add them any more than I am obliged to allow broken PrCs, spells, creatures or feat combos into the game.

To extend your culinary metaphor: I can add a certain spice (thematic element) to the curry (my game) if I want to; but that doesn't mean that marshmallows (inappropriate thematic elements) will be thrown in willy-nilly just because I like marshmallows too.

D&D = curry. Now there's a metaphor that works. :smallbiggrin:

Morty
2009-01-16, 07:44 AM
A dinosaur mounted on a halfling? Most awesome idea ever. Period.

Well, that would be interesting.
You haven't seen anything.


To extend your culinary metaphor: I can add a certain spice (thematic element) to the curry (my game) if I want to; but that doesn't mean that marshmallows (inappropriate thematic elements) will be thrown in willy-nilly just because I like marshmallows too.

But for some people, steampunk elements or magic trains in a fantasy setting are, in fact, marshmallows in a curry, to extend the culinar metaphor futher.

Asbestos
2009-01-16, 09:13 AM
I do, but the potential legal problems combined with me really not wanting to scan THAT many pages makes me not want to do that.

well... can you at least let me know if there's any crunch in it or if its purely flavor and fluff?

Waspinator
2009-01-16, 02:24 PM
I'm pretty sure the character guide has the crunch for making characters and the world guide is basically all fluff.