Help out a poor goblin tribe!

[Bago!!!]

Okay, heres the delima.

A friend of mine is letting me and a couple of our friends be goblins in an online game. Instead of being adventurers going out to save the world, we the goblins will be defending our own little 'dungeon'. We will be the opposition to the adventurers.

We will have the choice of being a goblin elite or three of them (Warrior-like goblins), a witchdocter (arcane/divine spellcaster) or a shamman (divine caster). Both spellcasters need charisma for all their spells, oddly enough.

Heres the problem. Instead of going by the standard goblin stats, he is making it so that we have HORRENDOUS STATS. Like, massive penalty to strength, Constitution, intellegence, and charisma. Possibly some of the other stats. We are like the poor goblins in the dungeons, except worse off. We will have hitpoints like 3 or 1, maybe 6 if we are lucky.
The DM's reason behind this is that we are poor degenerate goblins with poor health and terrible developement.

I am being a witchdocter. A friend of mine is being three goblins who will be making all sorts of traps.

The point of the game is about survival until the next round, which will result in a change of what kind of monsters we will be (He doesn't seem to want to tell anyone what the next monster teir is).


Now before you guys say, drop out or anything like that, I plan on playing a session or two before I consider dropping out to see how it plays out.


Now what I would like are some tips to kill or turn adventurers away that me and my pals could employ. Considering the situation, no idea is a bad idea!

[Dublock]

do you get to control how the dungeon is set up? That would be to your advantage, easily.

[Adumbration]

What edition? And what class are you using for the witch doctor?

[Prometheus]

Dublock has it right: It all depends on what the fortress you have to work with is. If your DM gives you a blueprint and says you get to lay a couple traps and cast a couple of spells before you chose your holding points, that's one thing. If you DM says you get to chose the layout and you have x amount of gp of improvements to spend, well that is quite another (you might want to look at the Out-Tuckering Tucker thread for that one).

If you are playing 3.X and your DM is looking for some rough guidelines regarding dungeons, have him pick up Stronghold Builder's Guide. Keep in mind, though, that if you base it off of that money that goes towards the structure and money that goes towards magic items/hired help should be treated as two separate categories even though both are measured in gp.

Also, I presume you get XP and gp between each fight, but you might want to ask him how this is going to go before that much planning.

[Storm Bringer]

not knowing the system (and what spells ect you may have), I'd have to suggest the following:

make sure to remember all the little penalties that a game can have but are often overlooked. your dungeon is goblin sized (after all, your abnormally weak and in poor health, why would your home, hewn out of solid rock, be any larger than needed) , and anyone human sized person entering it is going to find it cramped in the extreme. make the tunnels tiwsty, so that the attack party cannot draw line of sight for very far. Have the main entrance be overlooked form above, to let you rain missles form on high.


Hit. And. Run. Do not be afraid to bloody leg it, when things look bad. you have nothing to gain form standing and fighting, and a lot to gain form hiding. if you can manage it, have a bolt hole in the liar that is extremely hard to get into for a human sized person (like say with a entrance that is a natural crack less and a foot high and maybe 18inches wide, which a goblin can wriggle down but a human would stuggle a lot with) where you can retreat to.

max out hide skills. you'll need them.

[Thane of Fife]

This is actually a published book/module by WotC for 2nd Edition. I'm not going to mention it by name, but it does in fact have its own rules for making goblins and such, which you seem to using (if you're playing 3e, these could be more crippling than intended, but oh well).

I'm not going to give any hints about the adventures contained within, just some general advice:

1. Think like a goblin. You have no hope against an adventurer in a straight on fight. You need traps and tricks to balance things. Darkness is one of the great equalizers (against humans, anyway).

2. Don't play fair - if you can gang up on a wizard or thief, do it. It's much easier to recover from hit point loss than it is to recover from death. In the same way, remember that your own supply of goblins is limited - if you can keep somebody alive to fight again later, it might very well be worth it, but at the same time, don't forget that you vastly outnumber them, and that sacrificing a goblin - any goblin - to bring down an adventurer is a good deal.

3. Use your lair - it's sure to have its secret nooks and crannies. You can use them to hide things you don't want to lose. Try your best to keep the adventurers from finding them.


Finally, look forward to the next bit, as it should be fun.

EDIT: To those above, the dungeon is probably pre-made - according to the book, at least, it's pretty much a cave with goblins living in it, not something they made themselves.

[Egiam]

I find the ability score penalty painful in that to be able to cast a spell you need a certain score ( 11 for 1st, 13 for 3rd... you know the rules). So.... make sure you have the appropiate ability selection.

[LibraryOgre]

I agree with Thane. Where possible, put ranks in Hide and Move Silently. Throw masses of crossbow bolts at the weak members of the party, then disappear. If possible, ask if you can have some small-sized passages in a few places... things your goblins have carved out that will deter humans and other medium creatures.

Wolf-pack tactics also work well. One group fires, and runs. They lead the adventurers past another group that hits them with crossbows. Keep the adventurers focused on catching the group who just shot them, because the other group has disappeared.

It's fallen into disfavor in later editions, but don't forget the joys of flaming oil and poison (even if it's just a barrel of ordure propped on top of a door that goblins can slip through, but humans will have to open) is a good way of keeping people sick and unable to fight you.

Oh, and caltrops. Silent Image over a field of caltrops is an incredibly effective tactic, as is hiding caltrops amongst a field of rubble.

[Kyouhen]

Caltrops and tripwires. EVERYWHERE. Then stand on the other end and pummel them as they try to catch you. Have a pit trap right in front of you to buy some time for you to escape when they catch up.

[LibraryOgre]

Caltrops and tripwires. EVERYWHERE. Then stand on the other end and pummel them as they try to catch you. Have a pit trap right in front of you to buy some time for you to escape when they catch up.

Oh, and since you're goblins, a lot of tripwires should be a bit above goblin head height. A 5' high tripwire isn't going to affect goblins at all, but will catch human adventurers who aren't careful. Make them so if they're cut, they set off the trap.

[Telonius]

Rig the front every door so that a goblin can flip a lever and slam it shut. One goblin readies an action to do so as soon as the first adventurer enters; the rest of them ready an action to let loose with the crossbows as soon as it does.

[Another_Poet]

If you get a trio of goblion warriors, consider giving them each a spear. They hacn hold a 5' passage two deep, a 10' passage 2 and 1, or at least block a 15' passage. And in order for enemies to get into melee they have to pass through two or three AoOs. They can hold action to move on the same initiative so they keep backing up.

Remember the Withdraw action. Double move that does not provoke an AoO from leaving the startign square. Despite the name, you can go toward or through the battle area with it as well; it doesn't have to be a retreat.

I second the caltrops hdiden in rubble. In fact, cover every room with rubble just to slow the enemy.

If possible, identify a small side-room that would make an ideal resting place for the adventurers. Trap it so that you can spring the trap while they sleep.

Attack them in their sleep, try to pick off whoever is on night watch and then run. Don't ever stay in combat more than 2 rounds if you can avoid it.

Consider placing the triggers for traps in weird places. For intance, if you leave a rope hanging from a ledge they'll inspect the rope to see if it is trapped or it will hold their weight. If it seems perfectly safe, they won't expect that one of the footholds halfway up the cliff has the pressure plate to set off a trap. They can't find what they don't search for.

Use the spell Grease if you have it, especially on sloped floors near hidden pit-traps. Maybe they would've searched for and found the concealed trap had they walked up to it, but if you Grease them 10' away they won't have a chance.

Take some time to skim through all the free modules on the WotC site. Many of the low-level ones contain at least one uimpressive trap that doesn't take a lot of resources to make.

Don't think you're above trickery. If you kill an adventurer, drag off the body. Then later use ghost sound to imitate their voice coming from a dark hallway. "Guys, where are you? I'm hurt bad, guys!"

Alchemists fire is expensive, but dry grass is cheap. Harvest a bunch of weeds or grasses from outside the cave, dry them for a day and then make a room where the entire floor is covered in them. Once the adventurers enter, set them on fire. Use hand-fans to drive the smoke toward them, too.

[TengYt]

How many adventurers will you be facing and what classes will they be?

Try and split up the enemy with closing doors/pits to try and pick them off. Never try and take on an entire party up front.
Booby trap EVERY chest. Throw a few spare coins around nearby to try and catch their interest.
Take out the spellcasters and skillmonkeys first. Without a skillmonkey, it'll be harder for them to disarm your traps and open locked doors.

[Tacoma]

1: All your loot must be in the form of copper coins and heavy tradable goods. This way if the adventurers pick up loot on the way in they will be weighed down and possibly moving at penalty. At least it will make it harder for them to get it all out and they may leave it since it's "only copper".

2: Set up switchbacking S-shaped tunnels where you will flee. At the curves (the upper left and lower right of the S) you have very small bolt-hole tunnels leading into your warren of goblin-sized tunnels. So it looks like this:



X XXXX
X X
XXXX X
X O======
X XXXX
=====O X
XXXX X


At each hole leading to a tiny tunnel you have a stone block suspended that will drop down to seal that side tunnel, keeping people from following you. The block drop is triggered by a tripline in the tiny tunnel - so you don't have to spend an action to close a door behind you.

3: Much of the dungeon should have side warrens too small for humans to enter unless they take off their armor and such. There should be floor access as shown above, but also roofline access to the main tunnels where there are arrow slits and murder holes to fire through.

4: Set up goblin dummies who, in the dim light, look kind of real at first glance. For example, have a passage where you know the adventurers will come through end in a guard room. Halfway through the room is a wooden barricade and on the other side a door. The goblin dummies are on the adventurers' side, looking over the barricade as if guarding the opposite door. The adventurers will feel so pleased that they got the drop on some goblins, they'll rush in and blast them, triggering a trap.

5: Cut grooves in your stone floor, and fill those grooves with oil. People walking on the floor won't think it's slick and if the whole dungeon is moist they won't assume it's oil. Then if you light up any part of the floor the whole section goes up. The tunnels fill with smoke and fire, you seal off the area by closing and barring doors, and leave them in there to suffocate. Oil is cheap, at 7 CP per pint (not counting the 3cp flask) and one pint covers a 5' square and burns for 1d3 damage for two rounds. No save, no attack roll.

6: You need lots of escape tunnels leading outside, concealed out of reach of humans and covered with brush. The best escape tunnels look like animal dens so people are unwilling to crawl in and explore them.

7: One possibility is to make the dungeon seem abandoned until the PCs get far enough in that they can't escape quickly. The last thing you want is for them to meet you, run away, and plan for their next incursion. This might mean making it easy for them to enter the dungeon, but with a big avalanche rigged to cover the entrance with the mechanics on the inside. Nobody enters a big yawning open doorway and check for traps right inside it.

8: Create a LOT of plans and trap designs for your dungeon. Even if most of them are worthless or go unused. This way the DM doesn't know what exactly to prepare for until the last minute.

9: Think like an adventurer. Let's say there's a room with a very dusty floor and there are tons of goblin tracks leading up to a blank wall. What does the party do? Probably hang back out of the room while one person goes up to the wall and searches for a secret door. Or they might all get into the room. But they certainly won't be watching the wall opposite the "secret door". The secret door wall is of course just a big trap and the opposite wall has peepholes for goblin archers to fire through.

10: Use smoke and dust to distract for a short time. In the secret door ruse above, if you had a trap on the secret door that made smoke billow into the room, the adventurers won't notice where your goblin arrows are coming from. They probably will assume it's from the "secret door" trap.

[Tacoma]

Oh yes, as Another_Poet suggested, carry off the dead adventurers. This should take precedence over actually continuing to fight in combat. The adventurers probably won't be able to raise the dead but they can grab the equipment from the dead body and continue using it against you. Instead, you deprive them of it and can use it agianst them!

In this case, where you're outmatched, it's quite important to focus your attention in combat. You want to take out the soft adventurers (Wizard, Rogue) as soon as possible. The Rogue will be noticing and removing all your traps, and the Wizard will be frying your butts. And make sure every point of damage dealt goes into the same adventurer until that adventurer drops. You need to stop them from causing damage, which can only be done by disabling them or killing them.

The "treasure room" that holds all your many gold-painted copper coins and paste jewelry should have one strong door guarding it. This door should be closed with a simple lock and trap. But from the nearby goblin tunnel warrens you can pull a lever to drop a big stone block in front of the door. The Reflex save can be super simple, no need to make it easy to reload, because the whole point is to trap as many adventurers in the treasure room as possible.

For this reason you need to make your treasure room as big and comfortable as possible. It should have side alcoves so people need to come inside to see it all, and maybe a bend at the back. Only one entrance though.

Anyway, point is the adventurers can get only one person up to the door at a time to break it down (and later move the block) which means you need a TON of strength to break / move it. It's quite likely moving the block is impossible from the inside. Of course from the outside you have three sides to work with and you have prybars and tools and pulleys and such to pick it up and reset it.

This way you can be guaranteed you can trap at least one adventurer, possibly all of them, with no chance of failure since they don't get a check to dive 30' to get out of a room that's sealing closed. They'd get the save to get out of the way of the block. And once they're inside they just die of thirst in about 3 days, or if they have a Cleric they'll die of suffocation when you blow smoke into the room constantly.

[Thane of Fife]

@Tacoma

You're thinking waaaay too complicated.

Assuming that this is in fact the module I'm thinking of (and I'm almost completely certain that it is), the dungeon is already made, and it's pretty much a cave.

There are no doors, no tiny side warrens, and very little in the way of traps and equipment. I don't even think that there's much or even any treasure, much less a treasure room.

In general, combat tactics and quick tricks will be far more useful than ideas on how to set things up or intricate traps.

[Tacoma]

Well if they don't get the chance to set up the cave, they need to intercept the adventures outside on their way in. Follow them and when they camp right after a random encounter, see what they do. If they lie on the ground and try to memorize spells, this is a good time to attack. If they crawl up into a fluffy cloud, go home and grab your loot and flee the country because these people are too powerful.

But in attacking them this way the heavies will either be out of their heavy armor or be fatigued (since last night they probably camped the same way they're camping now, and the Fighter will be fatigued from sleeping in heavy armor unless he has Endurance, which he doesn't because Endurance is a lame feat).

And the healers will be out of healing spells, possibly all spells if they spontaneously cast them off as healing after the fight. The arcane spellcasters will be low on spells. They might have used their best ones.

And the enemy loses one round to being ambushed, a second round to waking up and standing up, and a third to pulling weapons and moving up to you.

It's also possible a goblin with Move Silently could sneak in and Coup De Grace one of the sleeping adventurers before the fight starts.

Anyway, the only benefit goblins have is their lair. Take away the carefully planned lair yet force them to fight in a cave, and you might as well forfeit and play something else.

[Another_Poet]

Your goblin team should also agree on a firm policy about healing:

THERE WILL BE NO HEALING IN BATTLE

All healing potions (if you have any) will be left one or two rooms away before engaging in battle. As soon as a goblin takes a single hit, that goblin uses the Withdraw action and runs for it. When they run away they may use the potions in the other room, or ask the cleric (shaman, whatever) for healing. But NO ONE will be healed in-battle.

Remember, in-combat healing is inefficient. Your enemies can usually do more damage to you in one round than you can cure, and they will target the wounded guy. So either win, or run, before you cure. Plus, if you bring potions with you they can be looted. You must not lose your cures.

ap

[TengYt]

If you have any low level minons, don't be afraid to sacrifice one or two if it means pinning down a cleric from healing a dying adventurer or shielding one of your casters.
Make the dungeon as dark as possible. The only light should be any the enemy brings with them, or fire. Use fire often, it can be deadly to low level adventurers.

[Tacoma]

Carefully stopper up some acid and label it "Healing" in Goblin. The players will be so delighted that they read your weird chicken-scratch language and decoded your stuff. They might not even waste a spell on detecting to see if they're magical.

Acid might smell awful based on which type you have. Poison might not be clear but if it is, use that instead / in other potions.

[LibraryOgre]

Spike certain potions with poison. Sure, it heals HP, but it damages Con. Have a simple way of telling them apart (such as everything is corked with a variety of things, but the poison ones are always corked the same way... it wouldn't be obvious, but it would be effective for those who know the code).

[Tacoma]

If the potion is spiked with poison, why would it have to be something useful? I think a Potion of Cause Light Wounds (so it registers as magical) made using acid instead of water (so it causes 1d6 damage for two rounds, absolute minimum, when consumed), spiked with weak CON poison would be good.

d8+1 negative energy damage
d6 / d6 acid damage
DC 10 ingested poison (1 CON / 1 CON)

But the sick part is that healing potions are consumed only in combat when there's an emergency. Otherwise adventurers save their healing items and wait for the Cleric to get around to them with spells. Which means in the middle of the fight, this adventurer is low on HP, and he spends his action to drink this delightful little cocktail. He might just outright die.

Potion cost: 50 GP
Acid: 10 GP
Poison: ?? (It's pretty weak, possibly the weakest poison in the game)
The look on the Tank's face as he dies: priceless.

[woodenbandman]

Rubble all over the floor, Branches of something on the ceiling, and take the feat Brachiation, from Complete Adventurer. That climb speed will help, like, a lot. If you're on the ceiling and the adventurers are stuck in the rubble/ a pit trap/ dead, you win. Have collapsing floors everywhere.

[Sebastian]

Have fun with pets, fill pit traps with scorpions, make live spiders fall over the wizard, throw a bag of snakes in the middle of their camp while they are sleeping, etc, extra credits if they are poisonous. ;)

plus they can also double as a tasty snack. ;)

[newbDM]

When I read your thread title something along the lines of "Only copper pieces a day can keep a goblin child off the streets, and away from gang-related raiding activity." went past my mind...


Anyway, I am curious as to why the OP immediately said "Now before you guys say, drop out or anything like that, I plan on playing a session or two before I consider dropping out to see how it plays out.". I would love to play in a game like this, or preferably in a kobold version! :smallbiggrin:

[Another_Poet]

Anyway, I am curious as to why the OP immediately said "Now before you guys say, drop out or anything like that, I plan on playing a session or two before I consider dropping out to see how it plays out.". I would love to play in a game like this, or preferably in a kobold version! :smallbiggrin:

Probably because anytime a poster mentions a gripe with a DM (in this case, weak/nerfed goblins) the automatic advice they're given is "drop out, find another group." Sometimes it's good advice, but it's become the default and is pitched at just about every poster who has a DM problem. Sad, really.

I agree this adventure sounds awesome. I hope the OP updates us on how it went.

[LibraryOgre]

Probably because anytime a poster mentions a gripe with a DM (in this case, weak/nerfed goblins) the automatic advice they're given is "drop out, find another group." Sometimes it's good advice, but it's become the default and is pitched at just about every poster who has a DM problem. Sad, really.

I agree this adventure sounds awesome. I hope the OP updates us on how it went.

This adventure sounds like it will land at either *** or awesome, with very little in between. And most of it is going to come down to the GM.