Dragon Disciple, Use Decoded?

[Darth Stabber]

Duskblade
Bard
Warmage

Would any of those be a better path of entry into dragon disciple? They all can easily meet the prereq's can more easily, and being full or 3/4 BAB they could make better use of the abilities. Even a 1 lvl dip into Duskblade wouldn't hurt alot of Melee builds (though the skill points might), a 2 lvl dip gives you 1 natural armor, 2 more spells, claw/claw/bite, and +2 str. So Duskblade 5/Dragon shaman2 with most of my spells being buffs and utilities (duskblades have a couple) sounds like a good lvl 7 build. Thoughts?

If there is something that I am missing let me know, I have heard every one and their brother call this PRC terrible, and I just thought that I might be able to get some good out of it.

[Kurald Galain]

Seems to me that a straight Duskblade would be be better than a hybrid DB/DD. The duskblade's prime limitation is the low amount of spells he knows, and a DD nets him zero.

And, the main point for taking DD would be the strength boost it gets, but that really doesn't help bards much, and doesn't benefit warmages at all, so why would they want to take DD?

[LibraryOgre]

A Duskblade looses way too much in going Dragon Disciple. The have great class abilities as they improve, so going DD isn't going to help them as much.

A Bard and Warmage are both primarily casters, so going DD isn't a huge draw for them. You can do pretty well with a Bard or Warmage DD, but you have to direct your character concept pretty carefully (for example, it would be good for a Bard who's more warrior than caster).

The class for whom DD really shines, IMO, the Hexblade. The Hexblade high-level abilities aren't that impressive, their spellcasting is a nice garnish, but not a core character ability, and the gains in strength completely offset the lower BAB.

[Thurbane]

Maybe Barbarian 4/Duskblade 1/Dragon Disciple 4/Barbarian X

...that's a character who's primarily focused on melee. The Duskblade level qualifies you for DD (and get's you a couple of spells, plus Arcane Attunement); Dragon Disciple gets you +2 natural AC, STR +4, claw/claw/bite, and a breath weapon 2d8, and all other levels are Barbarian. The build only loses 1 BAB overall for the DD levels. If you don't mind sacrificing more BAB, more DD levels would get you Blindsense, CON +2, INT +2, breath weapon 4d8, +3 natural AC, wings and finally Dragon Apotheosis.

[Person_Man]

I agree with Mark.

Also, if your goal is extra attacks through natural weapons, then you can get them a variety of better ways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29095). For example, a variant kobold (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) gets claws and bite for free. Regardless, if you do go DD be sure to take a good look at Races of the Dragon, Draconomicon, and Dragon Magic. Each of them has plenty of dragon related goodies. Unfortunately, most of them won't be useful to you until Whatever 5/Dragon Disciple 10, when you get the Half Dragon template.

[Tempest Fennac]

I have seen the class used with Ur-Priest builds which feature an Arcanist in order to get more level 9 spells. If I was using this with a straight Arcane character, I'd be tempted to take them instead of Epic ______ levels for the bonuses (Epic levels never really looked that good to me).

[Darth Stabber]

Hexblade, dang, didn't even think about that one, that's really good. Better than better than the crap that I thought of, though I think maybe some way to add in totemist would be good. Hmmm, Hexblade5, Dragon Disciple4, Totemist 11. Yes, excellent, Now I need to find a dm that Allows this. almost played a dragon disciple once, But before play started I purchased the PHB2 and dragonshaman fit my concept significantly better.

[Keld Denar]

Honestly, the best build for Dragon Disciple would involve the PrC Suel Arcanamach. A build might look like Duskblade3/Hexblade3/SA4/AbChamp5/SacredExorcist1/DragonDisc4. Finishes with 18/20 BAB, most of the good DD stat bumps, full SA casting augemented by AbChamp, Arcane Channeling of SA spells as desired, Mettle, Turn Undead to power Divine Might. A pretty melee oriented magically augemented gish. Combine an Arcane Channeled spell, Divine Might, Arcane Strike, and Dispelling Strike and you've got a pretty mean standard action strike. Cast Whirling Blade and hit multiple foes with that strike at range.

The reason DD is good in this build, is because it doesn't lose CLs for SA, because SA is already progressed as far as possible. DD actually extends it further by granting a couple extra spells/day, in a way that no other PrC can do, and the stat bonuses more than make up for the drop of a single BAB. By DD4, you get what, +4 cha, +2 str, and +2 con, IIRC? Thats a great investment of 4 levels that loses almost nothing.

And thats pretty much the only reason I can think of to EVER use Dragon Disciple as a PrC...ever.

[Draz74]

Regardless, if you do go DD be sure to take a good look at Races of the Dragon, Draconomicon, and Dragon Magic. Each of them has plenty of dragon related goodies. Unfortunately, most of them won't be useful to you until Whatever 5/Dragon Disciple 10, when you get the Half Dragon template.

If you go this route, of particular import is the Dragon Breath feat from Races of the Dragon. It gets rid of the dumbest limitation of them all on half-dragons: the 1/day limit of their breath weapon.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Wouldn't Duskblade 13/dd7 be better?

Hexblades do make great DD's. Especially with the dragon familiar thing.

[Innis Cabal]

The rest of the thread answers that. No. Duskblade loses way to much going into DD which is honestly not that great a PrC to begin with

[Ascension]

I have known someone who's played a Bard/DD in a non-optimized game and had a heck of a lot of fun with it, but I'm sure that's not really the answer anyone's looking for on these boards.

[ericgrau]

Maybe Barbarian 4/Duskblade 1/Dragon Disciple 4/Barbarian X

...that's a character who's primarily focused on melee. The Duskblade level qualifies you for DD (and get's you a couple of spells, plus Arcane Attunement); Dragon Disciple gets you +2 natural AC, STR +4, claw/claw/bite, and a breath weapon 2d8, and all other levels are Barbarian. The build only loses 1 BAB overall for the DD levels. If you don't mind sacrificing more BAB, more DD levels would get you Blindsense, CON +2, INT +2, breath weapon 4d8, +3 natural AC, wings and finally Dragon Apotheosis.

Do this. The best way to qualify for DD is a 1 level dip into a spontaneous casting class, since it's a much better class for melee guys than casters. As for BAB worries, the strength bonuses and other stat bonuses more than make up for it. DD is a good option for a melee build. In fact I'd adjust the above build to: Barbarian 4/Duskblade 1/Dragon Disciple 4/Barbarian to 11/Dragon Disciple to 7/w/e. Or any spontaneous caster in place of duskblade. Don't worry so much if you can't make much use of that one caster level, it's worth it even if you get nothing out of it.

[koldstare]

Core only I played a bit of a Dragon Disciple Using Saph's Horizon Tripper. If you go Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/(Sorc or Bard) 1/HoW 8/DD 6


You get a LOT of kind of weird abilities. The biggest downside being that people may call you stumpy the confused.