Building a Non-Spoony Bard? [PATHFINDER Beta]

[Ravens_cry]

Greetings one and all, I request of you wandering fair ones, you princes and princesses of men (and woman), for your assistance in what is sure to be a thing to be remembered, if only by myself.
In short, I need help making a bard. I got the character worked out role play wise, but I have never played a bard, and well, I need help in making one.
The basic role for myself I see is party support by playing various tunes to both hearten my comrades and bring fear to my enemies, knower of all manner of odd and useful information, as well as secondary healing. As well, I need to know what points to put into what stats, so as to be most effective in my quest for effectiveness. I am starting at level 14, with a 20 points point buy.
And suggestions and assistance would be more then welcome, and in fact I would be grateful as well.

[Another_Poet]

Well, first of all, THANK YOU for being a fellow Pathfinder player. The more of us there are, the longer 3.5. will last.

I just finished DMing a short (4 session) adventure using 12th level Pathfinder characters, one of which was abard. Recently we embarked on our long-term Pathfinder campaign, starting at level 1 and once again.... we have a bard! In both cases the bard has really rocked, seeming to shine more than the non-Pathfinder bard tends to.

The obvious stat choice is to put your highest statinto Cha. After that, a lot of people would suggest Con or (if you're the party face or it's a very poltical campaign and you need to sense a lot of motives) maybe Wis. I would actually suggest Dex is your second highest priority, however. I tend to see bards as making great archers. It lets them participate in battles but still stay in the back in a support role. Plus, Dex is already a no-brainer for AC so as long as you're putting decent points into it you might as well get a good bow and some archery feats.

Con, to me, is a third priority because a properly played bard should rarely take direct damage. If you're in melee range of the enemy ur doin it wrong. Depending on your DM you may be able to use the Withdraw action and maintain your bardic singing at the same time, so you should always be able to run away from enemy tanks and get to a safe position.

As far as skills go, max out Use Magic Device. The bard spell list is a little lacking, so being able to use any and every magic item you find is a must.

Bluff and Sense Motive may be important, depending on the setting and type of campaign. Bluff is always more important than Sense Motive, though. Those three - UMD, bluff, and maybe sense motive - are priorities, as is a high Perception check but that's true of any character. After that if you have skill points left (I don't think Int is that important of a stat for bards, so I often have low skill-point bards) then max out tumble, again to aid with getting to safety on the battlefield.

Okay, now on to magic. Choose one type of magic to really specialise in. I think mind-control type charm spells are a good one, though illusion or summoning are very bardish as well. You don't have a whole lot of feats as a bard, but you do have more than you might be used to because it's Pathfinder. I would put at least three feats into archery, leaving you plenty of extra feats at level 14 to spend on spell focus and the like.

As a rule, I wouldn't bother with metamagic feats as a bard, because your highest level spell slots are lower than the wiz/sorc's the metamagic feats were designed for. In other words, you just don't have the spell slots to burn to make metamagic worthwhile. Which brings me to my main point...

Spend your starting wealth on wands. Lots of wands! Buy wands with metamagic versiosn of spells you like, if your DM will allow it. A high level bard should have at least two or three different types of offensive wands, two or three types of debuff wands, a buff wand or two, some wall of --- wands or other battlefield control, a summoning wand or two, etc. Of course there are other things you need to buy too - some highly enchanted armour is a good start - but having a bandolier full of wands really plays to your versatility.

Anyway, that's my advice. I'm sure there's a Bard guide around too, if you run a search for it.

[Fixer]

I lack a gaming group (unless you count my 10-year-old son and my 13-year-old nephew) but have been trying out Pathfinder. When I learn some more I'll get back with you.

What does 'non-spoony' mean?

[Darth Stabber]

20 point buy kinda sucks, but would agree with the previous post about umd and wands. If you set your perform to sing, oratory, or comedy you save alot of worry about your instrument. Skills to put consideration into Hide/MS, diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, spot/listen, and tumble. Personally my bards usually end up with Finesse and a rapier, but then agin i happened to play Elan-like bards before I even started reading oots (infact they have been my favorite core-class since 2e). As far as spells go I usually endup being buff bot/healer, since Things have frequently saved against my spells (darn my Retarded{I mean that by it's most proper definition} spell Progression).

[Assassin89]

What does 'non-spoony' mean?

non-spoony means that the bard is not useless essentially the opposite of Edward from Final Fantasy IV, the original spoony bard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpoonyBard).

[Ravens_cry]

Thanks all for your assistance, and thanks especially to Another_Poet for your helpful words of advice.
Cheers!
Again, any assistance would be most grateful. Does anyone know of the location of the Bard guide Another_Poet speaks of?

[aarondirebear]

non-spoony means that the bard is not useless essentially the opposite of Edward from Final Fantasy IV, the original spoony bard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpoonyBard).

Actually, Spoony means "lovesick"

[Innis Cabal]

Make a swordsage

[Project_Mayhem]

Actually, Spoony means "lovesick"

Except in the context most people around here use the phrase 'spoony bard' in.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Actually, Spoony means "lovesick"

This stems from now-famous localized dialogue in Final Fantasy IV (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FinalFantasyIV) inserted by Ted Woolsey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Woolsey) who was well-known for his apt (and hilarious) choices of dialogue (known as Woolseyisms (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Woolseyism)). :smallbiggrin: