View Full Version : Revisiting an old idea: Spellcasting varient[LOTS]

2006-09-20, 11:50 PM
the [LOTS] means there's lots of holes in it still.
First thread
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=11543009 37;start=0#0

I'd put the idea aside so that later I could look at it and exmine it with "unfamilair eyes", but all I could do is make minor changes. I am humbly requesting further imput

copy/paste of first post:

I decided I dislike Vancian Magic- in order to right this wrong, I revised the D&D magic system with three intentions:

The Idea

1) Anyone can try to use magic, wizards are just the best at it.
2) Magic is cast spontaniously, but you can continue to add spells to your repitoire.
3) all magic is arcane. (I'm still in the process of revising how divine 'magic' will work in conjunction to this).

To accomplsih this, I axed all the full casters 'cept Wizard- Sorry, cleric, druid, bard, or sorcerer fans.

Secondly, I institute the Base Magic Rating (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/magicRating.htm) system, and the Spell points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) system.

Who's good at magic

The Magic Rating is split up thusly- Fighter, Rogue, Barberian, and Monk have the low (1/4th) magic rating.

Paladin and Ranger have the medium magic rating (1/2), and use their wisdom, rather than int, for casting (they apply their wisdom where a normal caster would his int).

Wizard has the full magic rating.

How to cast Spells

In order to be able to learn and cast spells, a character must have this feat

Arcane Talent [general]

Benefit: You may cast and learn spells as if you were a wizard of caster level equal to your magic rating. If your magic rating is 0, you can cast 3 cantrips per day.

Normal: You can not cast or learn spells.

Special: Wizards recieve this feat for free at 1st level.

Everyone with this feat casts spells as if they were a "wizard" of caster level equal to their magic rating.

All spells have a DC = 10+(3x Spell Level). To learn a spell, you must make a spell craft check against the spells DC. Attempting to learn a spell requires one hour of uninterrupted study per spell level.

In order to learn a spell you must have a scroll, spellbook, or teacher than knows the spell.

Casting a spell require a DC 5+(3x Spell Level) magic rating check (+ int mod) check.

Using a spell book that contains the spell, or a scroll of the spell gives you a +4 equipment bonus to this check.
Using a scroll or magic item 'normally' - that is, consumably, however, does not require this check.

If you target a creature with spell resistence, and the SR applies, their spell resistence is applied as a penalty to this roll.

Casting a spell with a somatic component in armor with an arcane spellfailure rate applies a penalty of 2 for every 5% of arcane spellfailure the armor would have.

The wizard remains the same, and receives the standard number of spell points as they would in the varient as normal. Wizards are now the only class that can have a familiar.

The Spell Mastery feat would give you the +4 equipment bonus to your spells as if you had a spellbook.

-The analyisis-

Balance issues- unlimted spells known, AND spontanious magic? I'm not sure how over powered this is.
On the one hand wizards are even more versitile.
On the other hand, everyone learns some degree of magic. Regardles, I think characters should have a limit on their spells known. The question is what's reasonable.

Fax Celestis
2006-09-21, 12:12 AM
You may want to look into how the Warlock works, considering that's basically what you're doing here.

Alternatively, the Tome of Magic provides three errific alternatives to Vancian magic, the spawn of which is currently resting a few threads below this one as "[Class] Thaumaturge".

Those would probaby be good starting points for ideas. I'd help you with yours, but I have my hands ful with my way around Vancian magic, as well as constructing monsters for MitP running two games, playing in three and building a little something I call the [i]Complete Commoner.

2006-09-21, 12:15 AM
I'll have no bragging in my threads.

And... I don't see the relation to the warlock.

Fax Celestis
2006-09-21, 12:22 AM
Bragging? I'm no-..well, okay, I suppose I am.

And the relation to the warlock may only just be my brain doing it's funky connections. But what I mainly gathered from your post was: "unlimited, spontaneous casting". What does the warlock do? Unlimited spontaneous casting. Granted, they're called "invocations" instead of "spells", but it's essentially the same thing.

...or am I sticking on the wrong point here?

2006-09-21, 09:09 AM
they're spontanious without limit on spells known, but with a chance of failure casting or learning spells.

2006-09-21, 09:23 AM
I think the DC of 5+3x spell level might be a bit high, especially since SR becomes a penalty to this check.

2SL + X would work better as a DC, since you're making a caster level check, and you get new spells every two caster levels, where X+1 is the target number you want for your biggest spells (that way, a caster at level 17 has to roll X+18 on 1d20+17 to cast a spell, and an apprentice at level 1 has to roll X+2 on 1d20+1 to cast; both have to roll X+1, before modifiers). Possibly even make it that you have to make a DC of X+Spell points to spend, so that you have to roll exactly X to spend spell points equal to your level. Even stacking intelligence on won't make this too hard.

Armor ASF penalties can be changed into a penalty on this for spells with somatic components; just divide by 5 and then you have your Armor Spellcasting Penalty (casting with 50% ASF changes to a -10 penalty on your casting roll)

Honestly I'd be in favor of a bit of caster MAD; it wouldn't utterly destroy them. I'd use INT to learn spells (making it an INT-based Spellcraft check is enough; possibly make it so that you can choose to forget spells and that the difficulty goes up for each spell you learn after a certain number (some function of level and int mod), WIS for bonus spell points (it's your willpower; how long you can keep forcing your internal energies onto the world), and CHA for DCs (it's how well you force your mind onto the world); I'd probably allow any one of them to determine the highest-level spell you can cast, though.

At the very least, keep CHA as a casting stat, somehow, even if it's just MAD between INT (knowledge) and CHA (DCs and Spell Points).

Also, I'm assuming all spells are drawn from a super-list containing the Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer lists, as per the Generic Caster?

2006-09-21, 11:28 AM
I like the idea for MAD. And yes, the spell list consists of every spell like the generic casters.

2006-09-21, 03:58 PM
Can I link to my… slightly more varient magic system?

If so, here is it (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=11581832 51;start=0#0). It's very underloved, considering.

2006-10-17, 04:09 PM
How would the spell assay resistance work under these conditions? I'm actually a fan of having the high DCs, making 9th level spells always a risk to cast. I'd actually vote that a natural one on the roll should always fail.