[3.5] Your Hexblade and You

[Samakain]

A character in an upcomming game i'm running is interested in running a "fixed" hexblade, i'm allowing it because i honestly think it makes the class viable. however there is one problem i see with the class still (I'm sure others will see many others), which is the spell list, for an immediate fix i was just going to tac on the assassin spell list for available spells.

So i was wondering, does the playground think this is viable? yes, no? if not what other options would you suggest to buff this side of the class?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I don't find anything wrong with the Hexblade spell list at all. The only combat "spell" you need is Arcane Strike, everything else is superb for solving problems that your melee attacks won't. Plus they get exclusive access to Hound of Doom, arguably one of the best summon spells in the game at its level (for a cha-based caster with d10 hp and fighter BAB) and it can even serve as a combat mount for a mounted charger build.

I'm actually not familiar with the specifics of the fixed Hexblade, hopefully someone will post a link because it's been evading my google-fu.

[Samakain]

i have it saved off at home, provided the thread doesn't tumble into the graveyard before then i'll post it up here. :)

[Tempest Fennac]

Here it is: http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-836978.html .

[Swooper]

The only combat "spell" you need is Arcane Strike
Correction: The only offensive spell hexblades need is Whirling Blade. Complete Arcane puts it on the hexblade spell list, it's reprinted in the Spell Compendium. Do a two-handed power attack on an entire 60' line of enemies. Friends/civilians in the way? No problem, Whirling Blade leaves them alone.

[Person_Man]

The Hexblade doesn't necessarily need to be fixed. It has a full BAB familiar that it can share spells with and a decent spell list. Pick a race that doesn't have the humanoid type, like Elan or Dragonwraught Kobold or whatnot. Take Improved Familiar. Cast Alter Self. Turn yourself into the most powerful 5HD creature you can find. Have your familiar do the same. That by itself will hold you over until you get access to Polymorph, and then all bets are off.

I've got several kick butt Hexblade builds. What's your style of play, books allowed, ECL, etc?

[Keld Denar]

Correction: The only offensive spell hexblades need is Whirling Blade. Complete Arcane puts it on the hexblade spell list, it's reprinted in the Spell Compendium. Do a two-handed power attack on an entire 60' line of enemies. Friends/civilians in the way? No problem, Whirling Blade leaves them alone.

A man after my own heart. Whirling Blade is.....beautiful. Another nifty trick is to get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Empower, I think they are about 8k gold. Since weapon damage is "variable", WB qualifies. And since Empower multiplies the final result of the damage (if you don't believe me, go look up the Empowed Magic Missile example in the PHB), then all damage would be multiplied. That includes your Arcane Strike damage, your PA damage, your weapon enhancement bonus damage, and any other buffs you have on you. You can put out some pretty sick multi target damage with one of these puppies.

[Signmaker]

The Hexblade doesn't necessarily need to be fixed. It has a full BAB familiar that it can share spells with and a decent spell list. Pick a race that doesn't have the humanoid type, like Elan or Dragonwraught Kobold or whatnot. Take Improved Familiar. Cast Alter Self. Turn yourself into the most powerful 5HD creature you can find. Have your familiar do the same. That by itself will hold you over until you get access to Polymorph, and then all bets are off

The fact that you needed Alter Self is probably indicative that hexblades probably aren't as well-off as you put them.

I was always miffed by the fact that the original hexblade had a such limited amount of curses. I ended up just using the shadow variant from PHB2, much more useful.

[Stephen_E]

If he goes the Dark Companion route I'd suggest he look at 3 levs of Blackguard. This gives him Dark Blessing - Cha bonus to saves, and Aura of Despair - -2 to enemie saves within 10'.

The rule for any weaker class is to stack like abilities.

If you allow odd races and LA buy off he may want to look at Nixie as well. The +3 LA is painful at 1st, but you buy off at ECL 12, 17 and 19, and the +8 to Cha is juicy long term. Also with Blackguard he'd gain Turn Undead and access to the Divine Shield feat (Cha bonus to AC).

Stephen E

[AslanCross]

Crystal Keep has a list of feats. This list has some Hexblade Curse feats from Dragon that give your curse other abilities. Might be worth a look if it's okay with your DM to use Dragon material.

[Person_Man]

The fact that you needed Alter Self is probably indicative that hexblades probably aren't as well-off as you put them.

I was always miffed by the fact that the original hexblade had a such limited amount of curses. I ended up just using the shadow variant from PHB2, much more useful.

The Familiar is the Hexblade's most powerful class feature. Even without Alter Self, using Share Spells essentially doubles the effectiveness of all of your buff spells. The Familiar's ability to hold a charge of your spell means that on the first round of combat, you can essentially cast twice. And the fact that it has full BAB and 1/2 your hit points means that it can fight on the front line with you.

Here's a simple Hexblade combo:

Hexblade Curse (-2 or more)
PHBII variant familiar (-2)
Obtain Familiar feat (because your Familiar is too good to pass up)
Frightful Presence or Dreadful Wrath (Shaken, -2)
Brutal Strike (Sickened, -2)
Netherese Battle Curse (-2)
Spell Storing Weapon

So that's a -10ish or more penalty to your enemy's Save, all in one round, before your Spell Storing weapon takes effect. You could fill it with a Fear inducing spell and essentially win combat against anyone vulnerable to Fear. You could use an Exhaustion effect to impose another -6. You could dip one level into anything that grants Sneak Attack for Staggering Strike. You could could coordinate with another caster in your party and use Dominate Person or any similar Save or Lose effect. You could take 2 levels of Totemist and use a Basilisk Mask to turn your enemy to stone for 1 round (and have your Familiar Sunder him). You could take Exotic Weapon Prof (Flindbar) and become a Disarming master. And so on.

I'll fully admit that they're not as strong as a Tome of Battle class or a full caster. I get that. But it's a lot stronger then most other full BAB classes.

[LibraryOgre]

Actually, I've been tempted to run a Hexblade 10/Dragon Disciple 10 who invests heavily in Martial Study and Stance feats.

[Fax Celestis]

Here's a simple Hexblade combo:

Hexblade Curse (-2 or more)
PHBII variant familiar (-2)
Obtain Familiar feat (because your Familiar is too good to pass up)
Frightful Presence or Dreadful Wrath (Shaken, -2)
Brutal Strike (Sickened, -2)
Netherese Battle Curse (-2)
Spell Storing Weapon

Does Intimidate use a save, or do those penalties apply to skill checks too? Because you could use this combo with Intimidating Strike (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Intimidating_Strike,PH2) (which you don't even have to sink AB into to get to function--you only have to do so if you want a bonus on your check) to smack someone into Shaken (or worse if they're already shaken) incredibly quickly.

[tyckspoon]

Intimidate is resisted with a 'modified level check' that includes..
1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear (emphasis added.) That last bit means the save penalties should apply, since it doesn't specify only bonuses. On the down side, you're still working against your target's HD, so you'll need some more Intimidate bonuses to make it a reliable thing.

[Person_Man]

Does Intimidate use a save, or do those penalties apply to skill checks too? Because you could use this combo with Intimidating Strike (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Intimidating_Strike,PH2) (which you don't even have to sink AB into to get to function--you only have to do so if you want a bonus on your check) to smack someone into Shaken (or worse if they're already shaken) incredibly quickly.

Yes, they apply:

Hexblade Curse: "-2 penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for one hour thereafter."

Sickened: "The character takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks."

Shaken: "A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. "

Etc.

I'm not a big fan of Intimidating Strike though, because it's a Standard Action. But I suppose that you could use it as part of a Demoralize build (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-911167), and be ridiculously effective against enemies who aren't immune to Fear or Mind Affecting effects. After that, you'd have to invest your resources into things that work well against undead and constructs and whatnot, because your DM is going to be using a lot of them against you.

Having said that, I think that if you do want to rebalance the Hexblade, a simple fix is to make the Hex a Swift Action (instead of a free action) that can be used once per encounter. As you gain additional uses, you can use it additional times per encounter, and the effects stack. Then all you need is a nifty capstone, and you're set.

[Kaiyanwang]

The Familiar is the Hexblade's most powerful class feature. Even without Alter Self, using Share Spells essentially doubles the effectiveness of all of your buff spells. The Familiar's ability to hold a charge of your spell means that on the first round of combat, you can essentially cast twice. And the fact that it has full BAB and 1/2 your hit points means that it can fight on the front line with you.

Here's a simple Hexblade combo:

Hexblade Curse (-2 or more)
PHBII variant familiar (-2)
Obtain Familiar feat (because your Familiar is too good to pass up)
Frightful Presence or Dreadful Wrath (Shaken, -2)
Brutal Strike (Sickened, -2)
Netherese Battle Curse (-2)
Spell Storing Weapon

So that's a -10ish or more penalty to your enemy's Save, all in one round, before your Spell Storing weapon takes effect. You could fill it with a Fear inducing spell and essentially win combat against anyone vulnerable to Fear. You could use an Exhaustion effect to impose another -6. You could dip one level into anything that grants Sneak Attack for Staggering Strike. You could could coordinate with another caster in your party and use Dominate Person or any similar Save or Lose effect. You could take 2 levels of Totemist and use a Basilisk Mask to turn your enemy to stone for 1 round (and have your Familiar Sunder him). You could take Exotic Weapon Prof (Flindbar) and become a Disarming master. And so on.

I'll fully admit that they're not as strong as a Tome of Battle class or a full caster. I get that. But it's a lot stronger then most other full BAB classes.

I'll second this. A player of mine is actually playing a debuffer + whirlwind blade hexblade in my current campaing and is a powerful* (and flavourful) character. WB wreaks havoc.

The familiar variant from PHII, as PersonMan has shown, is very good. I've seen it literally save the day in several istances.

*we don't play with cheese.

[Person_Man]

I dug up a homebrew revision I wrote a couple of years ago:

Person Man’s Hexblade Fix

4 Skill Points per level, instead of 2.
Add Sense Motive to Class Skill list.

Hexblade Curse: Usable once per encounter as a Swift Action. At 5th level and every four levels thereafter you may use it one additional time per encounter. All other restrictions still apply (multiple curses don’t stack, can be dispelled, etc).

Foil (Sp): You gain the ability to counter an enemy’s ongoing magical, spell like, or supernatural effect. At a Standard Action, make a single melee or ranged attack. If the attack hits, your enemy must make a Will Save (DC = 10 + 1/2 your Hexblade level + your Cha bonus). Spell Resistance also applies.

Failure means that one of your enemy’s ongoing effects immediately ends, and cannot be regained until the end of the encounter (even if the enemy re-casts or the spell or other ability). If you know that your enemy has a specific effect (for example you observed them cast it and used Spellcraft to identify it, or watched them Wildshape into an animal), you may choose which ongoing effect ends. Otherwise your DM chooses one ongoing effect at random. This ability works against ongoing spells, stances, vestiges, chakra binds, and all other spell like and supernatural abilities.

You may use this ability once per day at 6th level, and gain one additional use per day at 8th, 11th, 14th, and 18th levels.

Aura of Unluck: Continuous 20% miss chance. (Basically you get a free Minor Cloak of Displacement). Increases to 30% at 16th level, and 50% at 20th level.

I play tested it at levels 17-20 and found that it was actually more powerful then the unoptimized Crusader and Bard in our party, though still weaker then the semi-optimized Cleric and Wizard. So it was pretty much unnecessary (though I still love the Foil ability, and plan to include it in a future homebrew class somehow).

[Bugbeartrap]

Hey Person man, I like the idea of your build, but at what lvls does the Hexblade gain such abilities?