Deal with the devil

[Sotharsyl]

Might I begin with an apology there will probably be errors with this thread,because this is the first one I've made.
Now there is a very strong theory theory that V will be offered a deal by that quasit who was Kubota's advisor if V will accept such a deal what do you think would be offered a one time service, an artifact ?
I would also like to ask what Kobuta gained from his aliance that was infernaly powered or couldn't obtainon his own as a wealthy noble.
Most would asumme that it'd be greater arcane power but how exactly can devils offer a wizard somebody who must study for his spells more power,will they increase his int,will he receive roleplay xp and thus more wizard levels, a rare feat ?
My knowledge of Dnd isn't too advanced but from I know "arcane casters" powered by devils/demons etc are warlocks but in 3.5 they are Cha based Cha being V's dump stat plus XWiz/1War isn't a powerfull build.
Could the Giant do like what he did with Elan create a homebrew devil-linked Int based casting class ?

[hamishspence]

Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells, has Faustian Pacts which can grant the hero an extra feat, more XP, improved skills, etc. Also, there are feats to represent a personal connection with a particular archdevil.

Book of Vile Darkness already has contributed a monster to the strip (Eye of Fear and flame) it could potentially contribute prestige classes, feats, spells, etc.

Qaar is confirmed as an imp rather than a quasit (though in 2nd ed there were CE imps from the Abyss) by his "Silver or Good" damage reduction.

[Vemynal]

Belkar got a pet so i don't see why V couldn't gain a familiar though I doubt it would happen (remember h** bird abandoned h**)

but again: i doubt it

[Optimystik]

I hope he gets Qarr; it would fit with his potential alignment shift, almost certainly would lead to ultimate arcane power (at a terrible price?), and he clearly doesn't care about his raven anyway.

There's also the poetic justice involved: Kubota, a villain with an opinion of himself that rivals Nale, would have only been brought into the comic as a way of introducing his more plotworthy fiendish advisor. :smalltongue:

[[TS] Shadow]

I hope he gets Qarr; it would fit with his potential alignment shift, almost certainly would lead to ultimate arcane power (at a terrible price?), and he clearly doesn't care about his raven anyway.

There's also the poetic justice involved: Kubota, a villain with an opinion of himself that rivals Nale, would have only been brought into the comic as a way of introducing his more plotworthy fiendish advisor. :smalltongue:

What's worse is that Therkla (a character I liked and thought had potential) is a character created to lead Kubota to killing her, which leads Elan to capturing him, which leads to V zapping him.

Qarr is probably gonna make a deal with V. He's smart and clever, but I'm pretty sure he's not very powerful. All bark and no bite, I guess.

[The Neoclassic]

Shadow;5658853']What's worse is that Therkla (a character I liked and thought had potential) is a character created to lead Kubota to killing her, which leads Elan to capturing him, which leads to V zapping him.

Qarr is probably gonna make a deal with V. He's smart and clever, but I'm pretty sure he's not very powerful. All bark and no bite, I guess.

Yeah, Therkla was pretty swell. I'd have rather seen Qarr go down; he doesn't strike me as very interesting. Agreement that the bargain probably will occur though. And Qarr isn't all that powerful, but if he gets lucky (like in that battle), he can summon friends who are. In other words, I have no doubt he could be key in gaining some sort of serious power.

[SilentNight]

The sad part of this theory though is that V will become a villain. As interesting as it would be, I'm still in anti-hero overload from Miko.

[Finwe]

I hope he gets Qarr; it would fit with his potential alignment shift, almost certainly would lead to ultimate arcane power (at a terrible price?), and he clearly doesn't care about his raven anyway

Yeah, those imps, always holding the keys to ultimate arcane power!

[magic9mushroom]

Seeing as he managed to summon what appeared to be a Pit Fiend, yes, very much so.

[Kami2awa]

He may have a lot of power; just not outright physical power (which is often all that counts in D&D). If he's able to easily manipulate and control other powerful people or demons to his own end, then he's incredibly powerful.

[hamishspence]

and even if he doesn't, imps in Fiendish Codex 2 are agents- they communicate offers from the archdevils to appropiately powerful candidates for damnation, when they aren't doing the corrupting themselves.

If (big if) Qaar was to make the offer, and V was to accept, the "ultimate arcane power" or similar, would come from Qaar's bosses.

[Kaytara]

The fact that Rich has just made V sympathetic again for many of those people who had lost all sympathy after the Kubota incident probably doesn't bode well for V. :smalleek: It's probably just a means of keeping us emotionally attached to the character while that character's descent is shown... So something extreme with Qarr is very, very likely.

[hamishspence]

Belkar is a bit like Xykon- very hard to feel sympathy for.

V is more like Redcloak, and possibly Miko- easier to feel sympathy for.

Given V was the first to be overtly rude about Miko, referring to her as a "foul shrew" before she said anything to V, that has a certain irony.

[David Argall]

I would also like to ask what Kobuta gained from his aliance that was infernaly powered or couldn't obtainon his own as a wealthy noble.

Hard to say for sure, but in the strip, Qarr was an endless source of Charm Monster spells. That was surely highly useful. His spying abilities are also likely highly useful for a scheming noble. So there is enough there to make the idea reasonable.

[Optimystik]

Yeah, those imps, always holding the keys to ultimate arcane power!

Qarr: There's this great efreeti I want you to meet.
V: All right, I will. (4 words)

Done.

[Kobold-Bard]

As I recall Imps get to use Commune for 6 questions.. Probably with a Pit Fiend.

Quar: If this Elf is given ultimate power, will s/he become Evil?
Answer: Yes.

Quar: If s/he becomes evil, will s/he cause an acceptable amount of destruction to pay off giving hir this power?
Answer: Yes.

Quar: Will you give hir Ultimate Arcane Power?
Answer: Yes.

Big flash of evil light, :vaarsuvius: turns Super-Saiyan, we send the next two days endlessly discussing it and begging The Giant to show the next issue.

[[TS] Shadow]

As I recall Imps get to use Commune for 6 questions.. Probably with a Pit Fiend.

Quar: If this Elf is given ultimate power, will s/he become Evil?
Answer: Yes.

Quar: If s/he becomes evil, will s/he cause an acceptable amount of destruction to pay off giving hir this power?
Answer: Yes.

Quar: Will you give hir Ultimate Arcane Power?
Answer: Yes.

Big flash of evil light, :vaarsuvius: turns Super-Saiyan, we send the next two days endlessly discussing it and begging The Giant to show the next issue.

Next two days? Knowing the Giant, he'll take a week to update and then the next strip will be Diago and Kazumi playing Scrabble or something.

[TheSummoner]

That would be the most hilarious anticlimax ever...

[Pie Guy]

And then a strip or two about people asking where that elf went.

Oh sweet, sweet, irony.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Might I begin with an apology there will probably be errors with this thread,because this is the first one I've made.
Now there is a very strong theory theory that V will be offered a deal by that quasit who was Kubota's advisor if V will accept such a deal what do you think would be offered a one time service, an artifact ?
I would also like to ask what Kobuta gained from his aliance that was infernaly powered or couldn't obtainon his own as a wealthy noble.
Most would asumme that it'd be greater arcane power but how exactly can devils offer a wizard somebody who must study for his spells more power,will they increase his int,will he receive roleplay xp and thus more wizard levels, a rare feat ?
My knowledge of Dnd isn't too advanced but from I know "arcane casters" powered by devils/demons etc are warlocks but in 3.5 they are Cha based Cha being V's dump stat plus XWiz/1War isn't a powerfull build.
Could the Giant do like what he did with Elan create a homebrew devil-linked Int based casting class ?
It wouldn't be particularly necessary. Wizards have to study for their spells, but their repertoire is limited and must be constantly expanded using outside materials or aid.

V is trying to solve a very specific problem by using a very specific spell. Being offered a very specific spell, or in the very least, some information for research would be tempting bait.

In any case, it's all pointless speculation as to the details of deal, if any.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Given V was the first to be overtly rude about Miko, referring to her as a "foul shrew" before she said anything to V, that has a certain irony.
It hardly matters since Miko had already made up her mind to dislike the Order of the Stick and treat them all like criminals.

[Kish]

It hardly matters since Miko had already made up her mind to dislike the Order of the Stick and treat them all like criminals.
She conspicuously acted as friendly toward Durkon as we've ever seen her act toward anybody, well...ever.

[Kaytara]

Supposedly the only reason she was friendly and respectful of Durkon was because he was a cleric and attempted to surrender from the start (because he mistakenly believed that Thor wanted it that way.)

I don't get it, Lurker. If memory serves, Vaarsuvius did not call Miko a foul shrew until the moment when she supposedly perished. She'd had lots of time to be mean to V beforehand, the most obvious of which being that command "Durkon, elf, scorch the area, centred on me!" Very pointed. She respects Durkon and doesn't respect the elf and so won't bother to learn the elf's name.

[Kish]

Supposedly the only reason she was friendly and respectful of Durkon was because he was a cleric and attempted to surrender from the start (because he mistakenly believed that Thor wanted it that way.)

"Supposedly" seems to imply that Rich said that somewhere. Did he? I haven't seen it.


I don't get it, Lurker. If memory serves,

It doesn't. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html)

[Finwe]

As I recall Imps get to use Commune for 6 questions.. Probably with a Pit Fiend.


If (big if) Qaar was to make the offer, and V was to accept, the "ultimate arcane power" or similar, would come from Qaar's bosses.


Don't you think that if a Pit Fiend or Archdevil had "complete and total ultimate arcane power" they'd be using it?




Qarr: There's this great efreeti I want you to meet.
V: All right, I will. (4 words)

Done.

A few Wishes is hardly "complete and total ultimate arcane power."




Seeing as he managed to summon what appeared to be a Pit Fiend, yes, very much so.

Gate is a ninth level spell, and capable of that. Qarr may be a broker of power, but I greatly doubt he has access to anything much more powerful than his pit fiend token.

[magic9mushroom]

Oh crap.

I just realised who the other likely candidate for V's seduction is.

Sabine.

Remember the whole scene with "if you find something that could tip the balance between Good and Evil in our favor, you get a 10% finder's bonus"?

Note, though, that Sabine is apparently a demon and hence Chaotic (her personality definitely supports that), while Qarr is Lawful. So they won't be working together. It's entirely possible they'll compete over V.

[Kaytara]

"Supposedly" seems to imply that Rich said that somewhere. Did he? I haven't seen it.
Why would it imply that Rich has said it? Then it would hardly be "supposed", would it? :smallbiggrin:
Miko initially calls Durkon wise when he tries to surrender and again when he tries to stop the fight (already AFTER she's tried to finish off Roy, mind you), the latter apparently based on the former. That is, she thought he was wise because he'd refused to fight her earlier.
I know I said "cleric" and not "wise", but to me it looks like Miko would think those qualities go hand in hand. A fellow servant of a deity = someone wise and reasonable.


It doesn't. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html)

Yes, I was wondering. I stand corrected.
Nevertheless, while "foul shrew" is likely too strong a word, Miko provided sufficient reason to dislike her before that, during the battle.
"Silence. If at all possible, try to meet your fate with some dignity."
"The grace of my gods protects me from your corrupt magic, elf!"
"You seem wiser than your company would indicate, dwarf." (i.e. the rest of them are silly idiots.)
"Honourless dogs! I will see you lawfully executed despite your shameful tactics."

Pretty much everything she says conveys contempt for them and an assumption that they are all hopelessly evil, corrupt beings. While V may have exaggerated with calling her a foul shrew that early on, one can hardly blame any of them for disliking her at that point.

[Optimystik]

Note, though, that Sabine is apparently a demon and hence Chaotic (her personality definitely supports that), while Qarr is Lawful. So they won't be working together. It's entirely possible they'll compete over V.

There's nothing to say that Devils and Demons are separated in OotS-land yet. I can't really see Sabine attempting to seduce V though.


Don't you think that if a Pit Fiend or Archdevil had "complete and total ultimate arcane power" they'd be using it?

A few Wishes is hardly "complete and total ultimate arcane power."

You fail to realize that evil outsiders need to work with mortals to maximize their potential for creating havoc. As for efreeti, Wish is the ultimate arcane spell. Getting not one, but 3 free uses of it could be a one-way ticket to UAP depending on the wording V uses and how willing that being would be to pervert his intent. "The wrong reasons" implies to me that V attaining his power may be a darker prospect for the world than even Xykon.

[Holammer]

I think a Faustian destiny is right up V's alley. Rich knows his literary techniques and twists. I can imagine Qarr uttering another reference to Sympathy for the Devil.

... then again, Rich might surprise us with a plot twist not covered on TV Tropes :smallwink:

[David Argall]

There's nothing to say that Devils and Demons are separated in OotS-land yet.
There is nothing to say they are not. Haley doesn't know if Sabine is demon or devil and we have other evidence they are different types.
Most basic is that OOTS copies D&D 3.5 [except when it doesn't]. Since 3.5 makes them different types, and hostile to each other, that is the presumed rule in OOTS too.

[amuletts]

A Faustian Destiny. Man that is the best suggestion I've heard. I love that play!

I think the Imp would probably put V. onto a more powerful being, if a deal was the case. Just having access to the infernal (or is that demons?) plan could make V. more powerful. However, V. is no fool, I feel he would drive a hard bargain. But if he had enough to gain? He'd do it like a shot.

[amuletts]

A Faustian Destiny. Man that is the best suggestion I've heard. I love that play!

I think the Imp would probably put V. onto a more powerful being, if a deal was the case. Just having access to the infernal (or is that demons?) plan could make V. more powerful. However, V. is no fool, I feel he would drive a hard bargain. But if he had enough to gain? He'd do it like a shot.

[Kish]

Why would it imply that Rich has said it? Then it would hardly be "supposed", would it? :smallbiggrin:
Because "supposedly" is not the same as "in my opinion," which I'm now getting the impression is what you meant. I could look up the definition on dictionary.com, but if we disagree about the implied authority claimed by using "supposedly" there then it would probably be simpler to agree to disagree.

[Kaytara]

Because "supposedly" is not the same as "in my opinion," which I'm now getting the impression is what you meant. I could look up the definition on dictionary.com, but if we disagree about the implied authority claimed by using "supposedly" there then it would probably be simpler to agree to disagree.

You're right. 'IMO' is more what I had in mind.

Sorry about that. :smallbiggrin: English isn't my first language, and while I'm usually very comfortable speaking it, I still get slips like these from time to time. XD

[[TS] Shadow]

You're right. 'IMO' is more what I had in mind.

Sorry about that. :smallbiggrin: English isn't my first language, and while I'm usually very comfortable speaking it, I still get slips like these from time to time. XD

It isn't? I couldn't tell...(even though it says location:Germany.)

Anyway, given the setup, V meeting Qarr is almost inevitable. If the Giant didn't want us to believe that was the case, then he wouldn't had Qarr say that "opportunity is making a strengh check on my door" as V was flying by. That's pretty obvious foreshadowing. (Even if he didn't put in that panel, I'm sure that someone would speculate that, knowing these forums.) I think the bigger question is "will V take the deal?" While likely, I'm not quite sure if he will.

[Optimystik]

Shadow;5684713']I think the bigger question is "will V take the deal?" While likely, I'm not quite sure if he will.

That depends entirely on what the imp offers him. Someone as savvy as Qarr has to know that V has no interest in political power.

It would be nice if the two of them had to work together briefly, say to stave off a random encounter. That could give Qarr a chance to ingratiate himself to V. Certainly he'd come out looking more useful than Bird-that-Miss-Starshine-named :smallwink:

[Kaytara]

Shadow;5684713']It isn't? I couldn't tell...(even though it says location:Germany.)

Anyway, given the setup, V meeting Qarr is almost inevitable. If the Giant didn't want us to believe that was the case, then he wouldn't had Qarr say that "opportunity is making a strengh check on my door" as V was flying by. That's pretty obvious foreshadowing. (Even if he didn't put in that panel, I'm sure that someone would speculate that, knowing these forums.) I think the bigger question is "will V take the deal?" While likely, I'm not quite sure if he will.

I'm Russian, actually, not that it matters...

While I agree with Optimystik that V accepting the deal would depend entirely on the bargain, what would the dramatic value of Qarr following Vaarsuvius be if he was just turned down? Given the copious amount of foreshadowing earlier, something nasty is likely to happen to V. I expect that Vaarsuvius will drive a hard bargain but ultimately end up accepting the deal. Alternatively/in addition, Qarr could accomplish some other crucial task in the plot, like keeping Vaarsuvius from rejoining Durkon if/when Durkon sends him a Sending.

[FrankNorman]

Given how seriously overmatched Quarr is against V (as demonstrated by V), I don't think the little imp has anything to offer the elf.

[FrankNorman]

And as for putting V in touch with more powerful fiends? Like what? Like that oversized bozo Quarr summoned on the previous island, who was so clumsy and half-hearted in battle a lot of people ended up feeling sorry for him?

(Something that size ought to be able to kill a humanoid just by stomping on them. Anyone else here ever played Duke Nukem 3D and remember the "Battlelord" boss monster from the last map of the demo version? What happened if you got too close? "Big Red" was certainly not up to that level.)

[magic9mushroom]

And as for putting V in touch with more powerful fiends? Like what? Like that oversized bozo Quarr summoned on the previous island, who was so clumsy and half-hearted in battle a lot of people ended up feeling sorry for him?

(Something that size ought to be able to kill a humanoid just by stomping on them. Anyone else here ever played Duke Nukem 3D and remember the "Battlelord" boss monster from the last map of the demo version? What happened if you got too close? "Big Red" was certainly not up to that level.)

Like Infernals, that's what.

Which brings me to another thought.

The Linear Guild hasn't been seen for a long time. Maybe Sabine's going to try to tempt V also.

[Kaytara]

And as for putting V in touch with more powerful fiends? Like what? Like that oversized bozo Quarr summoned on the previous island, who was so clumsy and half-hearted in battle a lot of people ended up feeling sorry for him?


That was just that one monster, though. He was huge and strong but paid for it by being deficient in other areas. Just because the forces of evil include dumb tanks doesn't mean there aren't any diabolical masterminds who really do have something to offer Vaarsuvius.

In order to offer Vaarsuvius anything, though, Qarr would ostensibly need to know what V's after. Right now, it seems he has no clue what V is trying to research and V isn't likely to satisfy his curiosity further.
Unless, of course, Qarr just starts randomly throwing offers out there ("What do you want? Money? Skill? Power?"), but unless he hits the right button right away he would qualify as a distraction and V wouldn't be too appreciative.

[David Argall]

My bet is that Qarr offers to become V's familiar/lackey. This might not be the immediate pitch he makes, but V can devil-dust pretty easily, so I'm not sure if we have time for Qarr to be told "no" several times, each more brutal than the previous one. This will give Qarr a chance to spy on V and discover what offer will appeal.

[Assassin89]

I highly doubt that Qarr will offer an espresso maker as part of the deal, but I envision these four words:
"Yes, now shut up" "Yes, stop bothering me" or "Yes leave me alone"
Essentially, the reason for those phrases is for Qarr to leave V alone, rather than obtaining power.

[Holammer]

Qarr can teleport for starters. V cannot due to barred schools and that's a well established fact. Heck the lil' imp would be pretty useful only because of that.
He even uses a telemarketing term ("cold call") at the last panel which makes it clear he's in the business of corrupting souls at a price.

Say hello to V's new familiar (fingers crossed!)

[derfenrirwolv]

Quar: If this Elf is given ultimate power, will s/he become Evil?
Answer: Yes.

Quar: If s/he becomes evil, will s/he cause an acceptable amount of destruction to pay off giving hir this power?
Answer: Yes.

Quar: Will you give hir Ultimate Arcane Power?
Answer: Yes.


Quar: Do i address the elf as sir or ma'm?
Answer: Demonic static.

Quar: What the heck was that!
Answer ( in different voice): The head of the last demon you contacted exploding.

[Ellye]

The first thing that came to my mind after reading #624 is: "Qarr will be V's new familiar". And apparently many other people also felt the same. Personally, I'm inclined to believe that this is quite likely to happen.

[[TS] Shadow]

Why do people think that Qarr will be V's new familiar? The only reason I can think of is that Qarr can offer a lot of power to V, and V would ignore Qarr, just like "Bird-That-Miss-Starshine-Named." Is this why? (If this was answered in the 624 thread, I don't care. I don't have enough time to read through a ten page forum thread.)

[magic9mushroom]

Shadow;5693337']Why do people think that Qarr will be V's new familiar? The only reason I can think of is that Qarr can offer a lot of power to V, and V would ignore Qarr, just like "Bird-That-Miss-Starshine-Named." Is this why? (If this was answered in the 624 thread, I don't care. I don't have enough time to read through a ten page forum thread.)

Because Imps can be familiars, and V doesn't have a familiar.

[Draz74]

Shadow;5693337']Why do people think that Qarr will be V's new familiar?

Because Opportunity was making a strength check to break down Qarr's door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html).

[Kaytara]

Because Opportunity was making a strength check to break down Qarr's door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html).

Which only means that Qarr sees an opportunity in dealing with V. That opportunity doesn't have to be becoming V's familiar - something like a deal makes more sense with less assumptions.


Because Imps can be familiars, and V doesn't have a familiar.

How do you know that V doesn't have a familiar?

Yes, Blackwing deserted Vaarsuvius and vanished back into whatever realm he's waiting in. Just like he vanished without warning after being healed by Durkon during the bandit arc.

V and his familiar may be on difficult terms right now, but there's nothing to indicate that Blackwing is indeed gone for good.

[Zevox]

Besides, to take an Imp as a familiar V requires the Improved Familiar feat, and if she never cared about that class feature before, why would she have taken it? (Not to mention the whole "no new familiar for a year" clause...)

Also, see the new strip (625).

Zevox